http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15524 <pre>We have regularly been made aware of recurring problems on this list. The tone and atmosphere are unmatched in other Ubuntu mailing lists. At one point, Mark reached out [1] to remind everyone how we want to communicate with each other. Still debates kept getting out of hand and were mostly wildly unrelated to Ubuntu. Alan reached out again [2] and made clear that the list had long moved away from its initial focus and welcoming atmosphere. No solutions for the problem were brought up in the list discussion or in the Community Council meeting. In the meeting on April 19th the CC decided to shut down the Sounder mailing list. In essence, this is a decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or ungoverned, on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that the Sounder list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a particular social release </pre> Daniel Holbach 2011-04-20T09:25:09 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15523 <pre>Given that sounder is closing, those of us who still think this sub-community is worth preserving could move to http://groups.google.com/group/bikeshed Any objections? I have put up a draft description: "This group is for informal discussion between people who identify as members of the Ubuntu community. This group is not affiliated with the Ubuntu project, does not represent the official view of anyone, and probably isn't representative either of users or developers. Try not to feed flame-wars." I don't claim that is the best possible description of the group. Nor do I claim to know whether the group needs moderation, or needs to be more inclusive etc. Such issues could perhaps be decided by discussion between people who care enough to show up at the new mailing list. </pre> John McCabe-Dansted 2011-04-20T08:54:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15520 <pre>Dear Community Council Dissent, disagreement and debate are not bad. Inclusion does mean inclusion. Monocultures are inherently flawed. Consider some introspection. You are the Community Council. Good for you. Sounder members are part of the Ubuntu community. That is, or should be, far more important. As a result what your decision to close the list says, louder and more clearly than anything else is this: "we, The Community Council, get to decide who should and should not be members of the community. We, The Community Council, don't like the Sounder list, nor do we approve of the attitudes of many of the members who frequent it. We, The Community Council, think inclusion means to include those we approve of and exclude everyone else. We, the Community Council, want everyone who is not like us or does not hold our narrow political views to be eliminated from the community forthwith" But inclusion is about tolerance; not your weird narrow view of tolerance, but actual tolerance. Inclusion is not about inc</pre> Chris Puttick 2011-04-20T07:24:13 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15476 <pre>Seagate lands Samsung's hard drive unit for $1.37 billion: It's duopoly time &lt;http://ct.zdnet.com/clicks?t=781960099-f09aff1f3240c763b781087d83996fa3-bf&amp;brand=ZDNET&amp;s=5&gt; Seagate has acquired Samsung Electronics' hard disk drive (HDD) operations for $1.37 billion in a move that boils the market down to two players. Seagate and Western Digital now control the HDD market. READ FULL STORY &lt;http://ct.zdnet.com/clicks?t=781960100-f09aff1f3240c763b781087d83996fa3-bf&amp;brand=ZDNET&amp;s=5&gt; </pre> Fred A. Miller 2011-04-20T01:43:46 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15475 <pre>Dear Mr Pope and the rest of the Ubuntu Community Council, Alan, you have displayed your true colors today. After assuring me that this item would be brought up at the next community meeting rather than today's, I decided to disregard the inflammatory rhetoric about your character, and put my trust in you as a representative of the community. That trust was obviously misplaced. I say this because I feel that on top of you misleading me (and others) about the time of the meeting, you also chose to deliberately mischarachterize a number of my statements and selectively present the evidence I so exhaustively prepared, so as to bolster your own opinion that the list should be closed. I call foul. I call foul on the entire CC. Because if you voted to close the list you did so because it was your opinion that it should be shut regardless of community input and evidence to the contrary OR because you neglected to do your duty and investigate the information put forth by Mr. Pope (he was kind enough to link t</pre> Samuel Thurston 2011-04-20T01:43:23 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15444 <pre>Heh, my first, and last post to this list. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April Meeting 2011-04-19 CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is a decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or ungoverned, on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that the Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a particular social release for those who use them, we think there are better forums for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are inside the project, most are elsewhere. Transcript of IRC meeting log here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html </pre> sktsee 2011-04-19T21:45:19 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15440 <pre>http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/04/oracle-gives-up-on-ooo-after-community-forks-the-project.ars Oracle is throwing in the towel on OpenOffice after the majority of the community jumped ship and sided with The Document Foundation and LibreOffice. This move by the community to fork OOo due to Oracle's heavy handed handling of the project should be a warning to not just Canonical, but any other major Open Source project that runs things like a totalitarian regime and fails to listen to the cries of its community. Anger the community enough and they will fork the project, and the community will leave the original to molder and die. That's the beauty of Open Source, if the project you love is being run by a tyrant who isn't listening to your suggestion or complaint you can fork the project and build a new community based on higher ideals. There is a growing sense that Canonical isn't listening to its community. There's been several issues which haven't been addressed for some time, and when the</pre> Michael Haney 2011-04-19T18:02:54 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15422 <pre>IE9, which became available on March 14, has previously been available through manual downloads. The company said it has seen strong customer and business demand for the new browser, which supports HTML5 and Windows 7 integration. On April 18, existing IE9 beta and release candidate users will be upgraded through Windows Update. *Goodbye, XP * http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20110415/tc_nf/78171 </pre> Fred A. Miller 2011-04-18T00:19:34 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15389 <pre>http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/ </pre> Liam Proven 2011-04-16T14:36:56 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15387 <pre>Nothing can go wrong! Nothing can go wr!"&amp;%!£%"^!%£!"""&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt;&lt; at &gt; 5 out of 11 testers managed to crash Unity: http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/ How far are we from release day? - d. </pre> David Gerard 2011-04-16T08:46:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15386 <pre>I have been working on software for monkey testing. The way monkey testing works is to randomly generate keypresses until a bug is detected. My vision is that this would allow end users to donate CPU cycles to improve the quality of upstream software. This was inspired by the fact that Ubuntu has a very high user to developer ratio, and appears to need more ways to allow enthusiastic users to contribute. This software has found over 80 bugs in the LyX project and more recently I have also used it to find bugs in Abiword and Gnumeric. I suspect that it could be used to find bugs in pretty bug any rich GUI application. The LyX developers found this bug reports quite useful as: Keytest often finds the bug within one week of it being checked in, while it is still fresh on their minds; Keytest does a bisect and reports the change that caused the regression where possible; and Keytest finds the smallest subset of the key presses needed to reproduce the bug to provide a convenient recipe to reproduce. It is avai</pre> John McCabe-Dansted 2011-04-16T07:59:50 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15383 <pre>Ubuntu-coloured sheep! "Orange sheep: Farmer dyes sheep to stop theft" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13077375 -Paul </pre> Paul Sladen 2011-04-14T16:42:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15369 <pre>The OSGUI Tech Show from Down Under does a first look overview of the 64-bit edition of the Xubuntu 11.04 Beta 1 release. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MUUsHOaneQ </pre> Michael Haney 2011-04-11T23:46:20 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15351 <pre>with the recent spate of religious discussion here on sounder, I am left to wonder about the future of Ubuntu. I for one will probably not use a distro based around unity because it doesn't meet my workflow needs. (at least not unless it matures quickly) I'm not sold on gnome shell yet which seems to be the preferred alternative. But this makes me wonder, will the community split into two factions? perhaps Unity-arians and GNOstics? :P </pre> Samuel Thurston 2011-04-11T01:51:38 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15350 <pre>Just to beat the dead horse a little, I found the message heralding the switch from the old mailing list description (which was "Ubuntu community news and chit-chat .. anything goes ") to the current one: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2010-August/015091.html How I came across this is moderately interesting: I was thinking about doing another epic data post, along the lines of my previous one, detailing the history of the list. Since the archives start in August of 2004, I decided to only look at each august as "annual milestones." Here are the interesting points of my finds: Initially the list was a lot of install reports of warty and technical information probably better suited to the ubuntu-users list. august 2005 sees the shift into how Alan characterizes the list, as mostly a "ubuntu sightings and ubuntu in the news" type list. However even at this time there were discussions about more "political" type issues. Darl McBride Sco/novell lawsuit drivel: https://lists.ubuntu.com</pre> Samuel Thurston 2011-04-10T19:04:48 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15329 <pre>Alan Pope feels that "the Ubuntu community doesn't need this list anymore." I feel that sounder provides a very valuable function in the Ubuntu community. I have only my own perspective to offer, limited as it is. As Alan seems predisposed to press the case for the closure of the list in the face of vocal and vehement public disapproval, I'd like to enlist your help. What do you value about the sounder list? </pre> Samuel Thurston 2011-04-09T03:01:52 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15294 <pre>http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/20-years-of-linux-down-and-the-best-is-yet-to-come/8613?tag=nl.e589 </pre> Fred A. Miller 2011-04-08T14:14:56 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15283 <pre>I've added an proposal to the Ubuntu Community Council agenda to shut the sounder list down. When the Ubuntu project was started, the sounder list was a place where new ideas and fun things like 'Ubuntu sightings' were discussed - it was the first mailing list you would read in the mornings. However nowadays I don't believe this list is serving its purpose &amp; isn't helpful to the project. It only serves to allow a small set of people to argue about subjects very tenuously related to Ubuntu, or unrelated at all. The Ubuntu project doesn't need this list anymore. If anyone has an opinion / counter proposal I would recommend they turn up to the next CC meeting where it can be discussed. The next CC meeting is due to be on the 17th April 2011 at 11:00 UTC and will be held in #ubuntu-meeting on freenode IRC. I'll send a reminder nearer the time. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda It can of course also be discussed on this list, and at the meeting I'll do my best to objectively pull together opinio</pre> Alan Pope 2011-04-08T09:17:59 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15262 <pre>16 March 2011 Microsoft, the do-gooder, makes the ethics grade Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20044027-75.html#ixzz1IsK9MpGy </pre> Nathan Bahn 2011-04-07T21:29:35 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15261 <pre>The guy who does the This Week in Linux podcast on Youtube has done a new piece on Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryDE2klMGU8&amp;feature=uploademail </pre> Michael Haney 2011-04-07T21:14:05 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder/15238 <pre>It's out. http://www.gnome3.org/ As seen here: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/382495/gnome_3_will_ubuntu_reconsider_/ And if you read the comments: https://launchpad.net/ubuntugnome/ </pre> Liam Proven 2011-04-07T13:15:41 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.linux.ubuntu.sounder