gmane.linux.gentoo.council

Administrativa: List closed

Alex Legler — 2011-11-13T20:23:21

This mailing list has been disabled. You can no longer post or subscribe.

The current Gentoo Council has decided [1] to close this mailing list and to 
move all council-related discussion to the gentoo-dev [2] mailing list for 
technical matters and to the gentoo-project [2] mailing list for all other 
topics.

Users who are subscribed to this (gentoo-council) list but NOT to gentoo-
project will be automatically subscribed there and will receive a separate 
notification including unsubscription information.

[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331987
[2] See http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml

Meeting chair

Ulrich Mueller — 2011-07-15T22:24:39

As discussed in today's council meeting:
* council members will express their willingness to chair meetings

I would be available for this, in general. (Not for the next meeting
in August though, because I'll be absent until two days before the
meeting.)

Ulrich

Next council meeting date

Fabian Groffen — 2011-07-10T18:53:11

Hi all,

As far as I understood, the next meeting date should be set by the new
council.  In general the 2nd monday of the month 19:00 UTC rule is fine
with me, and I'd be happy to continue on that schedule.  However, I
guess that means tomorrow's meeting point should be moved, or can we use
it as first "meeting" to get things sorted out for the newbies (like
me)?
I would appreciate some of the old council veterans to take the lead
here.

Outcome of Council's 2010-07-26 meeting

Alex Alexander — 2010-07-26T22:38:46

Here's the Council's 2010-07-26 meeting outcome:

Hot points:
-> --as-needed now in default profile
-> required_use accepted by all members
-> use of die instead of invalid DEPEND atom "EAPI_TOO_OLD" in eclasses

Summary:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20100726-summary.txt

Reminder for today's Council meeting at 1900 UTC

Alex Alexander — 2010-07-26T07:14:06

Hi,

This a friendly reminder for today's Council Meeting (2010-07-26).

The meeting will take place in freenode/#gentoo-council as usual, at
1900 UTC. Visit [0] to get the proper time in your timezone.

The Agenda for this meeting can be found at [1]

[0] http://dev.gentoo.org/~wired/localtime.php?time=1900
[1] http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_620cb09e78b4e7d9997c45eb204f7fd7.xml

Council Agenda proposal for upcoming 2010-07-26 meeting

Alex Alexander — 2010-07-24T23:55:57

Hi,

following is the Council Agenda proposal for the upcoming meeting on
Monday, July 26th.

* allow all members to show up (5 min)
** vote **
add --as-needed to default profile's LDFLAGS
** discuss / vote **
- required-use: http://dev.gentoo.org/~ferringb/required-use.html
- review eclass removal policy
should it be 2 years since portage 2.1.4.4 went stable?
- should there a policy about eclass API changes?
- use of invalid DEPEND atom "EAPI_TOO_OLD" instead of calling die in
global scope on eclasses
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_dee3aab5e8c840ed3fa4add9c7d74b97.xml
and replies
- mailing lists
should we post council agenda to -council? -dev? -project?
some devs suggest we should cross-post to -dev and -council
but not everyone likes cross-posting as it can lead to fragmentation
Petteri suggested punting -council and using -project instead
* go through bugs assigned to council< at >g.o
* open floor: listen to developers

---

If you have something urgent not included above, pl

Gentoo Support Offering

Puria Nafisi Azizi — 2010-07-19T07:36:10

Hi,

I'm Puria Nafisi partner of _Axant_ a company based in Italy and one of 
my partners Luca Barbato is a gentoo developer.
We have in mind to provide professional consulting on gentoo, and 
provide professional gentoo support for other companies.

We were thinking if there are any kind of interest from the gentoo team, 
to mention it somewhere, as for instance the freebsd guys does ( 
http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/consult_bycat.html) or if there are no 
interest at all, and  you consider our proposal a bad idea.

Please keep in mind that we are going to provide eventually this service 
after sept, cause we are structure ourselves for this kind of business.

Thanks,

Upcoming Council meeting on July 26th, 1900 UTC

Alex Alexander — 2010-07-17T22:05:02

The Council will have its next meeting on the 26th of July, 2010.

The meeting will begin at 1900 UTC.

You may use [0] to find out the correct time in your timezone.

Here's a draft list of the meeting topics so far:
* vote on adding --as-needed to the default profile's LDFLAGS
* discuss (and maybe vote on) required-use
        http://dev.gentoo.org/~ferringb/required-use.html

A detailed agenda will follow in a few days.

If you have anything you'd like to push to the council for
discussion, feel free to reply to this thread.

[0] meeting time in your timezone:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~wired/localtime.php?time=1900

Agenda for the council meeting of 17 May 2010

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-05-17T14:39:35

This month's council meeting will take place on May 17th at 1800UTC
(i.e. 2100EEST, 2000CEST, 1400EDT, 1200MDT and 1100PDT). Here is the
agenda:

1. Intro (5 minutes, including late arrivals)
 1.1. Make sure somebody is logging
 1.2. Roll call
 1.3  Who wants to chair?
 1.4. Last chance for remarks on the agenda

2. Review of GLEP 39 overhaul propositions (30 minutes)
The idea is not to give our personal opinion on all the propositions
(yet) but to decide which of those I have listed in my summaries
actually make sense. Also if I have forgotten some. The goal is to
leave me with enough material and your opinion so that I can write the
final propositions before we organize the first round of vote.
Topics (roughly 5 minutes each with 10 minutes of overall margin):
 2.1 Voting by email, proxies and slacker rule [1]
 2.2 Should the new text be a GLEP, or something else? How do we
update it in the future? [2]
 2.3 Do we want to make changes to the role of the council? [3]
 2.4 Does the council need a lead? [4]

Next council on May 17th at 1800UTC.

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-05-07T00:58:38

The next council meeting will take place on May 17th at 1800UTC (i.e.
2000CET, 1400EST, 1200MST, 1100PST). We will very probably discuss the
GLEP 39 overhaul but other topics are welcome, so feel free to add
them to this thread.

Note that due to a combination of factors I have been unable to work
on Gentoo for some time. This is why, by the way, this announcement is
3 days late. No change in my availability should be expected for at
least the next 2 weeks, so I will be dedicating my time to council
tasks at the expense of the rest. This means I will soon summarize the
GLEP 39 threads in anticipation of the council meeting. The agenda
will also be ready on time.

Denis.

Council meeting agenda for 19 Apr 2010

Ulrich Mueller — 2010-04-16T08:39:36

The April council meeting will be held on #gentoo-council
at 2010-04-19, 18:00 UTC.

Agenda is included below.

Ulrich


1. Intro (10 minutes, including late arrivals)
   1.1. Make sure that somebody is logging.
   1.2. Roll call
   1.3. Who wants to chair?
   1.4. Last chance for remarks on the agenda

2. Follow-ups from previous meeting (15 minutes)
   2.1. GLEP 39 update (calchan)
   2.2. Policy for changes in metadata.xml (scarabeus)

3. Vote on "doman -i18n" option for EAPI 4 (ulm, 10 minutes)
   It has been proposed [1] to slightly change behaviour of doman for
   EAPI 4, so that the -i18n option would take precedence over the
   filename language suffix.

4. Bugzilla policy (betelgeuse, 20 minutes)
   4.1. Keywording bugs with a single arch [2]
        Options to vote in order (with run-off vote if one option
        doesn't get absolute majority):
        After the maintainer has accepted that a package is good for
stable (by being the assignee or reporter), the preferred way
        to assign the b

Policy regarding the inactive members

Markos Chandras — 2010-04-11T13:16:37

doman -i18n (for EAPI 4?)

Ulrich Mueller — 2010-04-07T10:35:25

The "doman" command has an -i18n option which is supported by all
three package managers, but so far PMS fails to documented it.

Bug 303919 [1] contains a proposal to add this documentation to PMS,
but also slightly change behaviour of doman, so that the -i18n option
would take precedence over the filename language suffix.

Do we need a council vote on this? If yes, is it something that should
go into EAPI 4 still? (Patches for portage [2] and PMS [3] are both
ready.)

I would put it on next meeting's agenda if you agree.

Ulrich

[1] <https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303919>
[2] <https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=222241>
[3] <https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=223393>

pkg_pretend USE validation and VALID_USE alternative

Brian Harring — 2010-03-31T09:20:35

Hola all-

For those who aren't familiar, pkg_pretend is in EAPI4- the main usage 
of it is will be use dep checking- this email is specifically 
regarding an alternative to it that *should* be superior for that use 
case, but I'm looking for feedback.

Basically, we use the original VALID_USE proposal from way back in 
'05- if you're familiar w/ MYOPTIONS, they're reasonably similar.

Roughly, VALID_USE is a list of constraints stating what the allowed 
use flag combinations are for this pkg.  If you think of normal 
depdencies (I must have openssl and python merged prior), it's the 
same machinery.

Examples:

# if build is set, python and openssl must be unset
VALID_USE="build? ( !python !openssl )"

# if mysql is set, sqlite must not be, and vice versa.
# note mysql/sqlite do *not* have to be set also.
VALID_USE="mysql? ( !sqlite ) !sqlite? ( mysql )"

# mysql or sqlite must be set; exclusive or.
VALID_USE="mysql? ( !sqlite ) !mysql ( sqlite )"

# alternative syntax, adding an xor group operator
# note x

Agenda for the council meeting of March 8th at 1900UTC

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-03-08T07:51:02

The next council meeting will take place on March 8th at 1900UTC (i.e.
2000CET, 1400EST, 1200MST, 1100PST). Here's the agenda:

1. Intro (10 minutes, including late arrivals)
 1.1. Make sure somebody is logging
 1.2. Roll call
 1.3  Who wants to chair?
 1.4. Last chance for remarks on the agenda

2. Voting by email (20 minutes)
Please review the thread at [1] and discuss.

3. Do we want of a policy for changes in metadata.xml? (20 minutes)
The point here is not to discuss the implementation of a policy for
changes in metadata.xml (this is better left to the mailing-list, at
least for the time being), but whether we want of such a thing or not.
Alternatives are for example doing nothing or finding ways to
discourage territoriality when it makes sense. Please review the
thread at [2] and discuss.

4. Conclusion (10 minutes)
 4.1 Action list. Who does what and when?
 4.2 Who takes care of the summary and log for this meeting? When?
 4.3 Next meeting date/time.
 4.4 Who will follow-up discussions and prepare the

Next council meeting on March 8th at 1900UTC (i.e. 2000CET, 1400EST, 1200MST, 1100PST)

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-02-26T03:12:50

The next council meeting will take place on March 8th at 1900UTC (i.e.
2000CET, 1400EST, 1200MST, 1100PST).

We currently have no proposed topics but the discussions on change
policies for metadata.xml [1] and on voting by email [2] will probably
make it to the agenda if nothing more urgent or important pops up. By
the way I want to note that the discussion on voting by email is by no
means limited to council members so whoever you are feel free to give
you opinion on the thread.

Additional topics are welcome though, so feel free to propose anything
that you would want to be discussed.

Denis.

[1] http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_6e5987cd3421772b7673e3e51c15cff0.xml
[2] http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_854648c086a63f4d392b64933f76117f.xml

Voting by mail

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-02-26T02:42:16

(We have informally discussed this on the alias but I would like us to
have a more serious and open discussion about it. It looks like the
agenda for the next meeting isn't going to be as loaded as usual so
it's a good opportunity. I'm posting this in advance of the meeting
announcement so that I can link to here from it.)

In a few words here is the problem. Is it a good idea to allow council
members to vote by email when they're not able to make it to the
meeting? If so how? Should that be done before or allowed to be done
after the meeting? Do we want to limit the number of members voting by
email for a given meeting? What do we do in case there are more votes
by email than the limit we set? Feel free to add more questions and
your opinion. This discussion isn't limited to council members by the
way.

As usual I'll wait a bit before giving my personal opinion so that
nobody thinks I'm pushing a personal agenda.

Denis.

Summary of the council meeting of February 8th, 2010

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-02-13T07:00:30

Attendance
==========
Present:
 Betelgeuse
 Calchan
 leio
 scarabeus
 solar
 ulm
Missing:
 dertobi123

Agenda
======
Vote on GLEPs 58 to 61
Open discussion on VDB

GLEPs 58 to 61
==============
GLEPs 58, 59 and 60 were approved unanimously by all present members. GLEP 61
was approved with four votes for it, one against and one abstention.

VDB discussion
==============
The council believes that specifying a unified VDB cache could prevent package
managers from innovating. The council also considers that the use of e.g. a
timestamp to facilitate working (or experimenting) with different VDB caches
is a nice thing, but prefers leaving the decision whether to implement such a
feature to the developers of the package managers.

Agenda for the council meeting of February 8th 2010 at 2000UTC

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-02-07T14:20:45

Please find below the agenda for the council meeting of 8 February
2010 at 2000UTC. Note that the time is one hour later than usual, i.e.
21:00 in western Europe, 3:00PM US east coast and noon for US west
coast

Denis.

----------.

1. Intro (5 minutes, including late arrivals)
 1.1. Make sure somebody is logging
 1.2. Roll call
 1.3  Who wants to chair?
 1.4. Last chance for remarks on the agenda

2. GLEP 58 (5 minutes)
Make sure you have read the latest version of GLEP 58 [1] and vote.
Proposed plan, see [2]:
 1. Council approves GLEP58.
 2. Portage support is added, we add MetaManifests everywhere needed
   (top-level, categories, metadata, eclass etc) in the tree.
 3. Old Portage versions still work at this point, because they ignore
 the other Manifest files.
 4. Wait 6-12 months for Portage upgrade cycle.
Then when and if desired we can proceed to dropping the per-package
Manifests but that will have to be the subject of an additional GLEP
at a later time (and we do have quite some time to come up with

Next council meeting will be on Monday 8th at 2000UTC

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-01-29T05:04:04

(In case you read somewhere the meeting was on Tuesday 9th, well,
guess what, I screwed up. It's actually on Monday 8th)

The next council meeting will be on Monday 8th at 2000UTC. Please note
the slightly unusual time: it's one hour later than usual. That's
21:00 for those of us in western Europe, 3:00PM for US east coast and
12 noon for US west coast.

Please make sure you discuss the topics before the meeting because we
will likely not have time for much more than voting. On top of that
council meetings are not the right place for technical discussions and
heated debates (both have a 100% chance of going nowhere). The place
where ideas should be proposed and discussed, where consensus need to
be reached, is the mailing lists. Don't count on your council members
to be creative, they're way too lazy and clueless for that.

I'm just now starting to work on the agenda with the target of
proposing it for review to the council over the coming weekend, but I
already know it's again going to be packed. What will

Next council meeting on Tuesday 9th 2010 at 2000UTC

Denis Dupeyron — 2010-01-29T04:35:30

The next council meeting will be on Tuesday 9th at 2000UTC. Please
note the slightly unusual day and time. It's on a Tuesday and it's one
hour later than usual. That's 21:00 for those of us in western Europe,
3:00PM for US east coast and 12 noon for US west coast.

Please make sure you discuss the topics before the meeting because we
will likely not have time for much more than voting. On top of that
council meetings are not the right place for technical discussions and
heated debates (both have a 100% chance of going nowhere). The place
where ideas should be proposed and discussed, where consensus need to
be reached, is the mailing lists. Don't count on your council members
to be creative, they're way too lazy and clueless for that.

I'm just now starting to work on the agenda with the target of
proposing it for review to the council over the coming weekend, but I
already know it's again going to be packed. What will for sure be on
the agenda are GLEPs 58 to 61 and the VDB issue (although I still have
to so