http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1 hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9054 ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Global WebSphere Community <info-McxU9Gq8IxrNLxjTenLetw< at >public.gmane.org> To: sasanplus-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 2:33:16 PM Subject: Is SOA dead? Is SOA dead? Dear GWC member, Event title: Is SOA dead? Event date and time: December 3, 2008 - 3:00pm EST Registration URL: https://groupintelligence.webex.com/groupintelligence/k2/j.php?ED=111463922&UID=1038643512&FM=1 Description: Many organizations have started down the path of SOA, only to find that reality is more challenging than the hype. Businesses need to see ROI, and IT professionals have a hard time staying on the theoretical course. So, how are we going forward? In this web-event, we will focus on the current problems around SOA, suggest successful strategies towards attaining SOA benefits and discuss how you can be the catalyst for improving IT and Business-IT alignment: essentially, making SOA work in the here and now. Our main topic will be SOA gov Sasan 2008-12-01T15:07:29 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9053 There has been much commentary in various blogs about the respective advantages of Open Source and Proprietary SOA software tools. Most of the commentary seems to be in favour of Open Source with such points being made as: (1) It is cheaper in TCO terms, as well as obvious licence expenses; (2) It tends to perform certain well defined functions while avoiding bloatware overheads; (3) It tends not to be a jumble of software stacks shoved together in an unwieldy mass as a result of post-acquisition consolidation. However, the major vendors are still in business and often have a loyal following among major customers. It would be interesting to hear the arguments on both sides, particularly from the proprietary camp, which could be judged as needing to articulate its case more clearly. Gervas PS I am neutral about the aforementioned points. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-archit Gervas Douglas 2008-12-01T15:03:33 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9051 The following article was sent to me as an e-mail from David Linthicum. Gervas SOA in Danger of Over Hype, Over Spending, and Bad Practices David S. Linthicum In a recent Burton Group event, the analysts stressed what I've been beating to death for years now, that too many companies are over spending in the SOA space, too early, and are not thinking through the core issues. Thus, many initial SOA project are in danger of hitting a wall before the core value of SOA is understood. The Burton analysts stressed that you don't need to chase after some Enterprise Service Bus (ESB) with every possible option, or try to support the latest chic Web services standards to achieve service orientation. Indeed, they are describing what SOA really is--an architecture style--and thus something you do, not something you buy. However, don't tell the vendors that. The hype in the SOA space is raging right now, largely due to the amount of marketing money that's being spent in order to both create and ca Gervas Douglas 2008-12-01T13:29:13 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9050 <<Over the past year or so there has been a huge increase in the amount of discussion about Service Oriented Architecture (SOA), and the number of blogs and posts on the subject seems to increase daily. So with over 25 million references to SOA discovered by Google, why bother writing another SOA blog post? Much of the discussion amongst the SOA community is interesting to other technophiles, but only serves to confuse the majority of readers. Bloggers like Mike Kavis try to bring the focus of SOA back to a business perspective, but the vast majority of articles concentrate on the technology debate. In recent weeks the rise of a lightweight version of SOA, termed Web Oriented Architecture (WOA), has had the techno-bloggers tapping away at their keyboards. OnStrategies gives us a quick digest of some of the highlights. Rather than join the technology debate about SOA we'll take a step back and explain simply how it works, how it can be used and, with the use of a real-world example, describe why a properl Gervas Douglas 2008-12-01T12:07:48 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9048 <<Steve Vinoski has written an article applying Christensen's famous book, The Inventor's Dilemma, to the REST and WS-* argument. For those of you who don't know, Steve is a strong supporter of REST models. Steve was previously a major dude in the CORBA world, and like many converts, has taken a very strong stance against his previous position. I pretty much have stopped arguing about REST and Web Services. One of the things open source has taught me is to react well to customers. If a customer is interested in using a SOAP solution, I help them. If a customer wants to use a RESTful model, I help them do that too. And I try to look at their individual scenario and understand what is the most appropriate technology for them. Steve's argument is phrased in terms of RPC, and he portrays WS-* as the culmination of the RPC model. In fact many of the architectures I am involved in building on top of WS-* for customers are not RPC - they are either long-running asynchronous or event driven. It is a fundamental er Gervas Douglas 2008-12-01T11:49:53 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9047 You fans and otherwise of REST might find the the following article of interest: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/n-gaa/message/1065 Gervas ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:service-orientated-architecture-digest-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw< at >public.gmane.org mailto:service-orientated-architecture-fullfeatured-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw< at >public.gmane.org <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: service-orientated-architecture-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw< at >public.gmane.org <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Gervas Douglas 2008-12-01T11:19:40 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9046 << Blogger: Anne Thomas Manes <http://www.burtongroup.com/AboutUs/Bios/PrintBio.aspx?Id=94> 643 <http://bgaps.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/07/09/643.jpg> It's a common misconception that SOA is expensive. Many organizations believe that they need to acquire a boat-load of new products and technologies to get started with SOA. First on the list of product acquisitions is an ESB, followed by registries, repositories, and security appliances. In these belt-tightening times, many SOA initiatives will be challenged to raise the funding required to acquire these products. So what's a team to do? Pack up and wait for better times? Or make do with what you have? In truth (and much to the vendors' dismay), you don't need a bunch of new products to do SOA. SOA is about the way you design your solutions Gervas Douglas 2008-12-01T11:00:52 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9038 <<Dave Linthicum wrote a post today called Open Source SOA provides some major advantages <http://weblog.infoworld.com/realworldsoa/archives/2008/11/open_source_and.html?source=rss>. In his post Dave stated: When it comes to SOA, I think open source <http://madgreek-tagging.jiglu.com/overlay/4211443415d81af30115da4505f4268a/Open%20Source> provides two major advantages: * First, it's typically much less expensive than the tools and the technology that are proprietary. * Second, they are typically much more simplistic and easier to understand and use. To the second point, simplicity. The open source SOA vendors seem to take a much more rudimentary approach to SOA, and their tools seem to be much easier to understand and, in some cases, use. While some people want complex, powerful tools, the reality is that most SOAs don't need them. If you're honest with the requirements of the project, you'll see that good enough is, well, good eno Gervas Douglas 2008-11-28T13:27:17 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9036 <<Adoption of the hard-to-explain technology is down, but it's still possible to make a convincing business strategy case.Service Oriented Architecture. The term, typically abbreviated to SOA, is a mouthful. It turns out it's hard to explain as well, and as a result, making a case to customers for return on investment isn't exactly easy. Determining ROI, in fact, is the greatest challenge developers working on SOA implementations say they face, according to a recent survey by Evans Data, which polled 368 developers working with SOA and Web services in September and October. So great is the challenge, according to participants, that it tops identifying available Web services, testing and validation, and paying for the technology. So selling an SOA project to the customer takes some work. "It's a long-term initiative, it's not a short-term quick hit," says Evans Data CEO John Andrews. "It's hard to understand, and it's hard to describe." With that in mind, it doesn't take much to understand why the adoptio Gervas Douglas 2008-11-28T12:23:19 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9034 We are hosting a one-day seminar in chennai on Dec-13,2008 called "ESOA2008" on Enterprise Service Oriented Architecture. We have world champions as Key Note Speakers. We are going to have very fine gentlemen like Dr. Pallab Saha, Graham Mcleod as key note speakers in the conference who are going bring their rich, world class experience in SOA and Enterprise Architecture to you and your employees. In this seminar we will reveal the "Hidden Secrets" of SOA and guide you through the process of "Philosophy-->Practicality". We also?Theory issue certificate of completion of "SOA" course for our attendees. The seminar is full of case studies and business cases and will be highly interactive and informative. We have couple of panel discussions where we are going to have heated discussion regarding tools and services around EA-SOA space which will be an excellent benefit for attendees. Please visit www.esoaconference.com for further details. Please contact us at esoa2008< at > digiblitz.com or registratio thakur_vikram19 2008-11-28T07:57:47 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9033 <<Have you ever noticed how magical the Web is? I mean, sure, it's technology, not magic. But it's almost as if Web-enabling something gives it a new life, a new depth that just makes applications more dynamic, more fun, more … magic. Maybe that's why WOA Web-oriented architecture is generating such a buzz, even though, at its technological heart, it's basically Web-enabling SOA. Back in September, when I interviewed Gartner vice president Nick Gall, he offered a simple formula for describing WOA: WOA = SOA + REST + WWW Gall first coined the term back in 2005, so in a way, he's entitled to define it although, to be fair, Dion Hinchcliffe has contributed substantially to the effort. When I spoke with Gall, he mentioned Gartner was working on a research note about WOA. It published this week under the title, "Tutorial: Web-Oriented Architecture: Putting the Web Back in Web Services." If you're rolling your eyes, you're probably not alone. The report's co-author, Anthony Bradley, even blogged about the Gervas Douglas 2008-11-28T00:37:41 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9029 <<I have just become aware of a proposal that could change my opinion of JSON, of XML and a number of other positions that I had. In the paper I co-authored on SOFEA, we were emphatic that JSON could not cut it as a format for Data Interchange because it lacked sufficient rigour to enforce service contracts. One of the main points behind a *Service-Oriented* Front-End Architecture was the ability to connect seamlessly to services, and services (by definition) need to have formal contracts. A front-end that doesn't respect data becomes a weak link in the end-to-end chain of data integrity and defeats a major goal of SOA. With regard to data, we need to be able to specify three things - data types, data structures and data constraints (rules). JSON has very loose data types. It does support hierarchical data structures, but doesn't enforce data constraints. XML in contrast supplies all three, making it a superior choice. I will freely admit that our choice of XML over JSON was not made without regret. JSON Gervas Douglas 2008-11-27T14:46:08 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9028 *You can read this article at: http://soa.sys-con.com/node/730632 Gervas* <<From the first days of Rich Internet Application (RIA) technology, many enthusiasts found an analogy between RIA and service-oriented architecture (SOA). Some of them talked about the benefits of a would-be-wonderful use of SOA in RIA; others saw RIA as a SOA face. Nonetheless, there are experts who see a discrepancy between RIA and SOA concepts. The major disagreement between RIA and SOA is in the fine-grained operations in RIA and the coarse-grained type of interfaces of SOA business services. Let's take a closer look at this problem. In a glance we can see that the RIA spectrum is wide. It includes applications with interfaces for information reporting, modifying predefined business data, collecting and inserting new data into the systems, fast and frequent exchange of information in social/community-oriented Internet applications, and setting commands in the processing systems. Depending on the task, RIA might r Gervas Douglas 2008-11-27T14:38:33 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9009 I have quoted a couple of your blogs on my N-GAA Group recently: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/n-gaa/ Gervas ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:service-orientated-architecture-digest-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw< at >public.gmane.org mailto:service-orientated-architecture-fullfeatured-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw< at >public.gmane.org <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: service-orientated-architecture-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw< at >public.gmane.org <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Gervas Douglas 2008-11-25T13:31:13 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9007 <<When I wrote my piece on Post-Before-Processing, I wasn't thinking about how it might apply to the design process. So when I read Saul Caganoff's reply, on Progressive Data Constraints, my first reaction was, well that's interesting but completely different. But when I read Saul's piece again more slowly, I started to see a common pattern between designing an engineering system (using CAD) and designing a response to a complex unstructured set of events (using what first Vickers and then Checkland call an "appreciative system"). In both cases, there is a pitfall known as "jumping to conclusions" - seeking premature closure as a result of an inability to tolerate incompleteness, inconsistency or uncertainty. There is a related pitfall of psychological attachment - being unable to abandon or revise one's earlier decisions. One of the most important skills for the business analyst or systems designer is the ability to throw away his/her first attempt and start again, or to make radical revisions to an existi Gervas Douglas 2008-11-25T12:44:07 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/9006 <<Establishing communication between disparate technology platforms is one of the holy grails in enterprise computing, ever so with the focus by most IT departments on avoiding information 'islands' within an organization. In fact, the appeal to service-orientated architectures (SOA) is to avoid such 'islands' by a having most resources available as a service. Next, I will describe a project named Thrift and how it tackles a unique problem set in SOA. In order to better understand the problem Thrift addresses, its necessary to take a step back into more popular SOA approaches. Services designed around REST and SOAP principles are among the most popular in today's web bound applications, using such an approach platform disparities are shielded by the use of XML payloads and WSDL/WADL descriptors, with any technology platform or programming language being 'wrapped' around said approach to bridge disparities. Prior the to appearance of REST and SOAP, distributed communication was achieved -- and is still oft Gervas Douglas 2008-11-25T11:49:04 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/8998 <<A fully self contained message is a pure and complete representation of a specific event and can be published and archived as such. The message can - instantly and in future - be interpreted as the respective event without the need to rely on additional data stores that would need to be in time-sync with the event during message-processing. Some people disagree with me that it is good practice to strive for fully contained messages in an Event-Driven Architecture. They advocate passing references to data that is stored elsewhere as being strong design. Let me explain why passing references is not suitable as an architectural principle and should even be regarded as an anti-pattern in EDA. First of all, I think everyone agrees with me that SOA and EDA strive for loose coupling. Striving for loose coupling by definition means minimizing dependencies. In SOA the services layer acts as an abstraction layer of implementation technologies. In EDA loose coupling is pulled further upwards to the functional level Gervas Douglas 2008-11-24T16:18:41 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/8994 <<This post, by Robert Swanwick, was brought to my attention by Brenda Michelson courtesy of her followup post. In the first post, Robert describes a situation of a company that has historically operated as autonomous business units, each doing what was best for their own customers, including each building their own web channel. As they tried to incorporate more customer contributions into those web channels, he states that "they sought to build a common platform." He didn't provide additional details on what common means, whether it was shared customer presence across all of the web channels, or if all of the web channels were consolidated into one. He goes on: However, the autonomous business units lived on. Because they are quite independent, they are constantly seeking to diverge in order to meet the specific needs of their customers. At the same time IT continues to work towards increased centralization. As you can imagine, this is creating some tension. A service oriented architecture (SOA) wi Gervas Douglas 2008-11-21T22:54:08 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/8993 <<The Apache Incubator has just voted to start a new Incubator podling, called Stonehenge. I'm the champion, so I'm taking this opportunity to explain it a little more. Firstly, let's get this out of the way. This will be the first Apache Incubator project that has contribution from Microsoft. Yes, Microsoft. As well as Microsoft, Redhat/JBoss, Progress/Iona, Eviware, WSO2 and others have signed up to contribute. For those of you that didn't know, Microsoft already has two committers at Apache, and is a sponsor of Apache. I think this is a big step and I congratulate Microsoft on making it. What is Stonehenge? The basic concept is to create a project that improves SOA interoperability through an Open Source model. The way we intend to do this is to create multiple implementations of the same application, and to ensure that they interoperate cleanly. Let me give a concrete example, which is based on the first such application: Stocktrader. This application has separate components that talk to each other vi Gervas Douglas 2008-11-21T22:44:06 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/8990 [Cross-posted in REST-Discuss Yahoo Group] Two Gartner colleagues and I just published a note on WOA -- a term I coined a couple of years ago and finally got around to nailing down. I've posted some highlights from it on my blog: http://blogs.gartner.com/nick_gall/2008/11/19/woa-putting-the-web-back-in-web-services/ . Let me just repeat the essential definition here: WOA is an architectural substyle of SOA that integrates systems and users via a web of globally linked hypermedia based on the architecture of the Web. This architecture emphasizes generality of interfaces (UIs and APIs) to achieve global network effects through five fundamental generic interface constraints: 1. Identification of resources 2. Manipulation of resources through representations 3. Self-descriptive messages 4. Hypermedia as the engine of application state 5. Application neutrality I am especially interested in this list's feedback on the addition of a fifth constraint to Roy's four "uniform interface" constraints: "application Nick Gall 2008-11-20T03:29:38 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1/8989 <<Call for Speakers MIT 2009 IQIS is actively seeking speakers for presentations and panel discussions. If you would like to submit your presentation for the Symposium, please forward your submission via email to: submission-mitiqis-3s7WtUTddSA< at >public.gmane.org In the body of your email submission or in a separate attachment, please include the following information: * title and abstract of your presentation (150 words maximum) * bio (150 words maximum) for each coauthor * any additional information you would like to provide to the Program Co-Chairs (500 words maximum) in consideration of your presentation (optional) * statement indicating that the information included in your presentation has been authorized and cleared for publication by your firm or organization* IMPORTANT DATES FOR SUBMISSIONS December 5, 2008: Deadline for Submission January 5, 2009: Acceptance Notified February 15, 2009: Camera Ready Copy of Presentations Due TOPICS The Symposium offers presentatio Gervas Douglas 2008-11-19T12:55:57 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.web.services.soa.yahoo-1