http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4253 This message didn't get to the archive, so I am forwarding it. Alexey Melnikov 2008-12-02T11:34:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4248 Alexey Melnikov 2008-12-01T21:19:41 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4236 Hi, I have a Debian 4.0 server with Sieve enabled Cyrus IMAP and Exim4. I have one e-mail address at my internet provider with two aliases. I use fetchmail to download the e-mail account to a local user, but I want to forward the messages arrived with one alias to another local user. I wrote a small script but it sais invalid e-mail address. How can I correct it? (sendmail localuser < ... works just fine) My script looks like this: if header :contains ["received"] "for EMAIL< at >ALIAS" { forward localuser; } Attila Mesterhazy Mester 2008-11-29T09:12:09 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4234 Hello, Are implementations permitted to stop evaluating a test, when the result makes no sense, e.g. in anyof(true, header "A" "B") evaluate "header"? The point is, that Sieve-Variables, says (Sec. 3.2. Match Variables) The decimal value of the match variable name will index the list of matching strings from the most recently evaluated successful match of type ":matches". However it is not very clear for me if every test needs to be evaluated, and thus if the last :match test was permitted to be evaluated, is it necessary to evaluate it? Consider a message A: Xa B: Xb C: Mc and if anyof (header :matches ["A", "B"] "X*", header :matches "C" "M*") { //what is ${1}? } What would be the value of ${1} * a - because after finding it out, the result of the first header test is clear. Having true as the first parameter of anyof, then anyof stops evaluation. * c - because this is the last matched test and the evaluation has not stopped after finding out that the first header test suffices for the result of anyof * b - header evaluates all possibilities, and anyof stops when the result is clear. Thanks in advance for your opinion, Дилян Дилян Палаузов 2008-11-27T12:52:46 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4228 Far too many web shopping sites and other software refuse to accept arnt+thisorthat< at >example.com as a valid address. This week I've run into something worse. Tobit.de makes a mail server which, AFAICT, transforms arnt+abcdary< at >example.com into arnt«cdary< at >example.com. Absolutely lovely. Arnt Arnt Gulbrandsen 2008-11-22T19:04:56 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4225 Hello, Some more thoughts on ManageSieve: *FORMATS* Provided that a sieve-script can have textual (application/sieve) format, and xml format (draft-freed-sieve-in-xml-01) it would be interesting when a managesieve-server can live with several possible sieve-formats. I would like to suggest adding a third optional parameter to PUTSCRIPT and GETSCRIPT specifying the format of the sieve code. Strictly speaking an intelligent ManageSieve server would recognize the format automatically and a dummy server would return in GETSCRIPT the file as it was uploaded (regardless of the format). However with a third parameter to GETSCRIPT a server can be used for converting between xml - application/sieve (- cyrus-sieve-bytecode). *:GLOBAL* Provided that draft-daboo-sieve-include is not dead, and users can "include :global" it would be useful to provide managesieve-possibilities to see how the global scripts are written. My suggestion is to let the user see the global scripts, when the authorization ID is the empty string. In terms of the Sieve URL Scheme, the global scripts could be accessible when owner = '\0'. I mean when sieveurl-script = "sieve://" [ authority ] "/" [owner "/"] scriptname has the form sieveurl-script = "sieve://" [ authority ] "//" scriptname then requested are the global scripts. *READ-ONLY* In this case however the users shall have only read-only access on the global scripts and one more Response Code will be appropriate READONLY (returned together with NO after PUTSCRIPT and together with OK after AUTHENTICATE). This makes sense in one more case: Imagine there are sieve scripts, that SMTP/ejerect-s mails from non-subscribers. In this case the people who manage the list might be interested to see how the script looks like, but shall not to able to create mess by changing it. As a matter of fact for a list there could be more than one scrips generated (e.g. for the address ...-unsubscribe< at >), so... Would be too weird if I propose a new command "LISTAUTHZ" (or alike) listing the authorization IDs that can be used by the user with the current authentication ID? *CHECKSCRIPT* I don't like very much the command CHECKSCRIPT, cause the same things can be achieved by using "" as first parameter to PUTSCRIPT and allowing it in unauthenticated-state (incl. changing the ABNF for PUTSCRIPT to permit sieve-name or empty-string as 1st parameter). PUTSCRIPT "" provides the same flexibility as CHECKSCRIPT and keeps the protocol simpler. Moreover "LANGUAGE - ... Note that the current language MAY be per-user configurable (i.e. it MAY change after authentication)." (How) shall a user be able to set a language? Greetings, Dilian PS: The link at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/sieve/ to Draft dependency graphs (http://www.fenron.com/~fenner/ietf/deps/viz/sieve.pdf) is not working. Дилян Палаузов 2008-11-21T20:41:45 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4221 I would appreciate feedback from people who would like to implement this document or have already implemented extensions from it. Please reply to the mailing list or directly to me. Alexey Melnikov 2008-11-20T22:38:09 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4217 Regarding the multiple enclose issue with respect to the sieve mime loop specification, here is the modified text I'm putting in to the doc based on yesterday's WG meeting. Does anyone have comments/modifications? Tony Hansen tony< at >att.com If multiple "enclose" actions are executed by a script, the message is enclosed multiple times. (If a Sieve script desires to choose between different enclosures, or wants to delay the enclosure to the end of the script, it can use variables with appropriate tests. <xref target="RFC5229" />) Tony Hansen 2008-11-19T00:14:38 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4191 Folks, with my co-chair hat on I would like to start the Sieve Working Group Last Call for the following document: The SIEVE mail filtering language - extension for accessing mailbox metadata <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-melnikov-sieve-imapext-metadata-04.txt> The Working Group Last Call for this document starts on November 10th and will end on November 28th (so it is almost 3 weeks, so that the IETF meeting in Dublin is covered). Please send any comments to the Sieve mailing list or directly to me. If you chose to do the latter, please CC Cyrus Daboo <cyrus< at >daboo.name>. Reviews that found no issues are also welcomed, so if you review the document and find it acceptable, please let the mailing list/authors+chairs know as well. Thank you, Alexey, Sieve WG co-chairs Alexey Melnikov 2008-11-08T16:56:23 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4187 Cyrus and I would like to suggest the following agenda for Minneapolis. Comments are welcome. ================================================================= Agenda Document status review (10 mins) WG Status review (10 mins) Mime Loops (draft-ietf-sieve-mime-loop-07.txt) (10 mins) Sieve Reject (draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-07.txt) (15 mins) iHave (draft-freed-sieve-ihave-03.txt) (15 mins) Notary (draft-freed-sieve-notary-01.txt) (10 mins) SIEVE in XML (expired:draft-freed-sieve-in-xml-01.txt) (10 mins) ManageSIEVE (draft-martin-managesieve-10.txt) (10 mins) METADATA (draft-melnikov-sieve-imapext-metadata-04.txt) (20 mins) ================================================================= Total: 110 mins Alexey Melnikov 2008-11-06T15:49:43 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4185 will be held on Monday, November 17 2008 at 17:40-19:30, Central Standard Time (which is UTC - 6 hours). Alexey Melnikov 2008-11-04T14:53:33 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4181 Are there any Sieve implementations that follow draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-07? I am quite interested in replacing my existing per-user SMTP-time rejection mechanism based on courier-mta's mailfilter with something that will hopefully wind up as a standard Sieve-based method. I've seen reference to Sun's implementation.. is this available as open source, or as a proprietary product? Troy Benjegerdes 2008-11-01T18:57:41 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4179 Hi folks, draft-martin-managesieve already had an informal WG-like last call (before the Sieve WG rechartered). I've just posted draft-ietf-sieve-managesieve-01.txt that I believe addressed all major outstanding issues. Because the list of changes to the document is long, as one of the authors I think it is worth to have another WGLC to verify that they are Ok with the WG. Now, with my co-chair hat on: This message officially starts the Sieve Working Group Last Call for the following document: A Protocol for Remotely Managing Sieve Scripts <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-managesieve-01.txt> The Working Group Last Call for this document starts on November 3rd and will end on November 21st (so it is almost 3 weeks, so that the IETF meeting in Dublin is covered). Please send any comments to the Sieve mailing list or directly to me. If you chose to do the latter, please CC Cyrus Daboo <cyrus< at >daboo.name>. Reviews that found no issues are also welcomed, so if you review the document and find it acceptable, please let the mailing list/authors+chairs know as well. Thank you, Alexey, Sieve WG co-chairs Alexey Melnikov 2008-11-01T18:47:55 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4171 Hello, Rereading draft-melnikov-sieve-external-lists-01 the main idea that came to my mind is that ":list" adds one more (unnecessary) dimension. In case of "header", "address" and "envelope" test, their last parameter so far is a string-list: address [COMPARATOR] [ADDRESS-PART] [MATCH-TYPE] <header-list: string-list> <key-list: string-list> envelope [COMPARATOR] [ADDRESS-PART] [MATCH-TYPE] <envelope-part: string-list> <key-list: string-list> header [COMPARATOR] [MATCH-TYPE] <header-names: string-list> <key-list: string-list> With ":list" added the last parameter will be altered from "list of strings" to a "list of list of strings". At the same time mixing "internal" and external lists gets more complicated than necessary. For doing a check "if a mail does not come from my three girlfriends, or my company, then reject it" it would be necessary to write if anyof(envelope "from" ["g1", "g2", "g3"], envelope :lists "from" ["my-department", "our-partners"]) { reject ":P"; } I think it would be better to allow references to lists in any string-list, which expands the references, so that the string-list can be used normal. What about replacing :list "my-pets" with L{my-pets}, hence the above check would be rewritten as if envelope "from" ["g1", "g2", "g3", L{my-department}, L{<our-partners}] { reject ":P"; } In this way only the definition of string-list has to be changed. The test envelope, address and header stay untouched. For "redirect" one has just to write that it accepts now string-list instead of just "string". Със здраве, Дилян Дилян Палаузов 2008-10-27T22:14:48 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4162 I've posted draft-ietf-sieve-managesieve-00.txt yesterday. It has some relatively minor changes from draft-martin-managesieve-12.txt: 1). Addition of the WARNINGS response code (as per comment from Stephan Bosch) 2). Addition of the MAXREDIRECTS capability (as per discussion on the mailing list) 3). Updates/fixes to some examples (as per Chris Newman's review, etc.) 4). Added IANA registrations of some missing response codes I only have 2 open issues outstanding: 1). Update to Sieve URL scheme based on Chris Newman's proposal. Based on the discussion on the mailing list I believe there is rough consensus to make the change, i.e. to add "authorized user" just before the script name, but it would be optional. I will send a separate message on this so that it is clear to everyone what change I will be implementing. 2). Stephan Bosch suggested that some deployments would like to have script verification mode, without allowing SASL ANONYMOUS. I.e. only to allow script verification by registered users of the service (SASL ANONYMOUS would allow *any* user, even not registered on the system, to perform script validation). ManageSieve used to have such mode by allowing the empty string as the script name in PUTSCRIPT, but it was taken out, because I felt at the time that SASL ANONYMOUS was a cleaner design. Now that I understand that the two mechanisms have different applicability, I would like to hear WG opinion on this issue. Alexey Melnikov 2008-10-21T10:41:30 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4153 Практический курс: ________ ________ (знания, умения, навыки, личные качества, мотивация, необходимые ДпП, чтобы обеспечить компанию максимально подходящими кадрами на каждый вид работы) 27-28 октября 2008 (8-044)..223-25-71. ________ Необходимые компетенции директора по персоналу. Позиция HR-Директора в системе управления. Цели и задачи ДП. Построение эффективной службы управления персоналом - Место кадровых технологий в системе управления персоналом - Кадровая политика в соответствии со стадией развития организации - Виды организационных структур и регламентирующие документы службы персонала - Критерии эффективности деятельности службы персонала Управление талантами. Кадровый менеджмент в XXI веке - Современные технологии подбора персонала. - Острый дефицит человеческих ресурсов. Готовы ли Вы пережить кадровый кризис? - Позиционирование компании на рынке труда. Как выгодно продать работу? - От персонала к персоне. Как управлять талантами? - Управление карьерой сотрудников. Разработка интересного карьерного сценария - Подготовка кадров внутри организации - кузница кадров или корпоративный университет? Эффективный инструментарий в работе службы управления персоналом - Профилирование должностей - Найм: подбор и отбор персонала - Оценка персонала (Assessment Center) - Адаптация персонала - Обучение персонала. Обучающая организация - Умение предотвращать типичные ошибки, связанные со стереотипами в отношении людей. - Консолидация персонала, повышение лояльности сотрудников и снижение реальной и потенциальной текучести персонала Мотивация персонала - Мотивация. Основные идеи и подходы - Диагностика мотивационного потенциала организации сотрудников - Калейдоскоп: нематериальная и материальная мотивация - Мотивация и другие составляющие управления и развития персонала - Опыт российских и зарубежных компаний Корпоративная культура в компании - Функции и значение корпоративной культуры компании - Формы корпоративной культуры. Корпоративный Кодекс - Методы и технологии разработки и внедрения корпоративной культуры в компании - Поддержание и коррекция корпоративной культуры - Примеры корпоративной культуры российских и западных компаний Внутренние коммуникации в компании - Методы обратной связи с персоналом - Внутренний PR управленческих решений - Мониторинг и коррекция общественного мнения в компании - Ответы на вопросы и индивидуальное консультирование. ________ Автор и ведущий: Мухитдинова Н.Т. - бизнес-тренер , психолог, гештальт-терапевт, магистр психологии (образование Украина, РФ, Германия). Опыт тренерской работы более 7 лет. Специализация: эффективное управление в организации ; построение структуры управления, структуры коммуникаций в организации; разработка внедрения систем мотивации; эффективное функционирование в команде; структурные реорганизации , кризисы и конфликты в управлении организацией; анализ взаимодействия с партнерами, клиентами и заказчиками. Директор по персоналу компании. Проведено более 150 тренингов и семинаров в Украине и за рубежом. Стоимость за 1-го участника 1950,00 грн., при 2-х участниках 3650,00 грн (при большем количестве участников, предоставляются индивидуальные скидки). * - оплата за участие относится к ВР (ст.5, п.5.2.1. Закона "О налогообложении прибыли"). Место проведения: г.Киев, конференц-зал Отеля "Sankt-Peterburg", бульвар Т.Шевченко,4 (м."Крещатик"). (8-044) 223-25-71. ________________________ ДДД891gbak720855 Managar_Foxtrot 2008-10-20T18:33:26 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4148 Hello, I am finishing up a first release of my Sieve implementation, and one of the TODO items that yet remains is getting some answers to questions that arose during development. I've collected these into a file an now I submit them to this list to get some clarification. Any help is greatly appreciated. * RFC 5228 (Sieve) : 5.1. Test address: "Implementations MUST restrict the address test to headers that contain addresses, but MUST include at least From, To, Cc, Bcc, Sender, Resent-From, and Resent-To, and it SHOULD include any other header that utilizes an "address-list" structured header body." -> Will this cause a compile error, or are the disallowed headers simply ignored? My implementation currently considers this to be a compile error. -> Given the variables extension, sometimes the specified header names aren't known until runtime. If the previous answer was to cause a compile error, should this abort the script at runtime? * RFC 5228 (Sieve) : 5.4. Test envelope: "The "envelope" test is true if the specified part of the [SMTP] (or equivalent) envelope matches the specified key. This specification defines the interpretation of the (case insensitive) "from" and "to" envelope-parts. Additional envelope-parts may be defined by other extensions; implementations SHOULD consider unknown envelope parts an error." -> Given the variables extension, sometimes the specified envelope parts aren't known until runtime. Should invalid ones abort the script or is ignoring them a better practice? Regards, -- Stephan Bosch stephan< at >rename-it.nl Stephan Bosch 2008-10-19T10:31:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4138 Hi folks, This message officially starts the Sieve Working Group Last Call for the following document: SIEVE Email Filtering: Notary Extension <http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-freed-sieve-notary-01.txt> The Working Group Last Call for this document starts on October 1st and will end on October 15th. Please send any comments to the Sieve mailing list or directly to me. If you chose to do the latter, please CC Ned Freed <ned.freed< at >mrochek.com> and Cyrus Daboo <cyrus< at >daboo.name>. Reviews that found no issues are also welcomed, so if you review the document and find it acceptable, please let the mailing list/authors+me know as well. Thank you, Alexey, Sieve WG co-chairs Alexey Melnikov 2008-09-30T18:07:27 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4131 Hi, Chris Newman has reviewed the ManageSieve document and sent me the following comment on Sieve URLs that point to scripts: I agree with Chris, however I am concerned that there are existing applications using <sieveurl-script> form of Sieve URLs. So I would like to hear from people: 1). opinions on whether you think this change is a good or a bad idea 2). if you know of any application using existing <sieveurl-script> form (with no "owner"). Alexey Melnikov 2008-09-21T11:55:17 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4127 Folks, While reviewing the mailing list archive I've stumbled across an old message from Nigel Swinson which I don't think received adequate considerations. Nigel wrote in August 2007: [...] Speaking as an implementor I would like to second this. Do we need this extra complexity? If an implementation doesn't want to enclose a bodypart twice, it can either use Sieve variables, or construct a different Sieve script. Alexey Melnikov 2008-09-14T19:28:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.mta-filters/4112 Hi folks, Soon I will be posting -11. Below I am detailing the major changes in the document, most of which were prompted by Chris Newman's review of the document. And I will post a separate message(s) asking about some remaining changes that were suggested. 1). Clarified that inactivity timeout can be shorter than 30 mins before authentication. 2). Allowed characters in Sieve script names - I've changed the document to use NET-Unicode (RFC 5198) with some extra restrictions. The following characters are disallowed: 0000-001F; [CONTROL CHARACTERS] 007F; DELETE 0080-009F; [CONTROL CHARACTERS] 2028; LINE SEPARATOR 2029; PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR Please let me know if this look reasonable. 3). Clarified script name length limit in Unicode characters and octets. Clarified that the server MUST NOT truncate any name to its limit. 4). Described cases when AUTHENTICATE command can be pipelined with others. 5). Chris Newman pointed out that the document was missing text about certificate verification after successful STARTTLS. I've cut & pasted text from draft-hodges-server-ident-check-00.txt, however I've edited it and hoping that my version is better. 6). Added user language advertisement to CAPABILITY. 7). Clarified that all human readable strings are encoded in UTF-8. 8). Added new response codes to disambiguate deletion of the active script from deletion of a non existent script, new script name existing in RENAMESCRIPT, etc. 9). Changed NOOP response to return the client token in a response code, instead of the human readable portion of the response. This feels cleaner. 10). Extra text in the Security Considerations section talking about information about user accounts that might be disclosed by various response codes. 11). Various changes/fixes to ABNF, for example to show which commands are valid in which states, which responses are valid for which commands, etc. 12). Added a new requirement on clients to use SRV lookups to locate ManageSieve servers. 13). Added UNAUTHENTICATE command, so that the same connection can be reused by an administrative client that wants to manage scripts for different users. Alexey Melnikov 2008-09-13T15:13:17 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.ietf.mta-filters