gmane.comp.web.microformats.general

microformats and seo - numbers

Glenn Jones — 2012-02-14T13:04:38

Hi All

I am going to be doing a presentation on microformats at a SEO
conference in a few weeks. Last time I did this talk the Q&A was full of
question asking for figures on the effectiveness of rich snippets at
increasing site traffic. 

Does anyone know of any quantitative research on this subject.  I have
had a quick look on the web and cannot find anything.

Cheers
Glenn Jones

PS old version of the tal, if your interested -
http://www.slideshare.net/glennjones/microformats-and-seo

hAudio and HTML5 audio element

Mathias Panzenböck — 2012-02-13T15:42:39

Hi.

I'm new here and hope to have done everything like it is meant to be. I've added a new issue to the 
hAudio issues:
http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues#D10:_2012-02-13__hAudio_sample_and_enclosure_should_support_HTML5_audio

What do you think? I think it would make sense to add the option to write the sample/enclosure as 
audio element with a special class instead of a link with a special rel attribute.

Another thing I noticed, but for which I haven't written an issue (yet) is the "position":
http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Position

The spec says it describes the position of the hAudio item in a list. "Examples of hAudio lists can 
include album track listings, music top 10 lists, playlists, and podcast chapters." So it is 
ambiguous to what position it actually describes. I want to generate playlists in which I add to 
each hAudio item *not* the position it has in the playlist (this I want to be inferred from the 
position in the HTML file), but explicitly the position the song has in its associated album.

How would I do that? If it's not possible with the current schema I would propose a new element 
"trackNum" taken from XSPF:
http://www.xspf.org/orig-xspf-v1.html#rfc.section.4.1.1.2.14.1.1.1.9

Also I'd like to be able to put several playlists into a single HTML file and give each playlist a 
name. Maybe something like this?:

<div class="hplaylist">
   <h2 class="fn">Some Songs from Magnatune.com</h2>

   <ol>
     <li class="haudio">
       <span class="contributor">Timothy Vajda</span> -
       <span class="album">Bootstrap Physics</span> -
       <span class="trackNum">09</span> -
       <span class="fn">As The Crow Flies</span> <audio controls class="sample" preload="none"
         src="http://he3.magnatune.com/all/09-As%20The%20Crow%20Flies-Timothy%20Vajda.mp3"/></li>

     <li class="haudio">
       <span class="contributor">Shira Kammen</span> -
       <span class="album">Music of Waters</span> -
       <span class="trackNum">02</span> -
       <span class="fn">Downstream</span> <audio controls class="sample" preload="none"
         src="http://he3.magnatune.com/all/02-Downstream-Shira%20Kammen.mp3"/></li>

     <li class="haudio">
       <span class="contributor">Jami Sieber</span> -
       <span class="album">Hidden Sky</span> -
       <span class="trackNum">01</span> -
       <span class="fn">Maenam</span> <audio controls class="sample" preload="none"
         src="http://he3.magnatune.com/all/01-Maenam-Jami%20Sieber.mp3"/></li>
   </ol>
</div>


So what do you think? I'd use it in the HTML export feature in this experiment of mine:
http://tinyurl.com/magnatune-player/

-panzi

Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

Robin Winslow — 2011-12-23T13:23:53

Hi. I was wondering if there are standards in marking-up layout
elements for common regions in HTML documents.

I know HTML5 defines <header>, <footer>, <nav> and <article>, and
that's very helpful. But also many websites have a <div
class="container"> that encloses everything, to squeeze the content
into the middle of the page, and I'm never sure if I should, put the
<nav> inside the <header> or after it, and how should left and right
columns be marked-up? Should they be within the <article> element? Or
not? And I thought of using <aside> to denote left and right columns,
with classes like "pre" and "post" but I don't know if this is
standard either.

Does anyone know if anyone has come up with any standards for this
sort of thing?

I did post this question on stackoverflow.com, but thought you guys
might know more than the people that have answered so far:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8615464/standards-for-html-layout-element-class-names

Thanks,
Robin.

[microformats-2] e-* values and the JSON serialization

Edward O'Connor — 2011-12-15T18:41:19

Hi,

The Microformats 2 page doesn't yet contain a definition of the JSON
serialization algorithm. When it does get written down, the algorithm
should specify that e-* properties (whose value is the DOM desendents
of the element) get serialized using the Serializing HTML Fragments
algorithm in the HTML spec:

  http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-end.html#serializing-html-fragments


Ted

Anyone knows of an hcalendar-to-ical service thatsupports simple RRULEs?

André Luís — 2011-12-12T14:59:47

Hello everyone,

Anyone knows any hCalendar-to-iCal service that supports simple RRULEs?

Test page (am I doing something wrong?)
http://jsbin.com/imuniz/5/edit

I've looked on the wiki, searched the web, tried all I could think of:
Brian's X2V & H2VX (including dev. subdomain), Optimus (XML), ...

The only one that picked it up was Glenn's http://ufxtract.com/ but it
doesn't provide .ics output. ;)

If anyone remembers something I don't, send me in the right direction.

Thanks a lot in advance,
--
André Luís
http://id.andr3.net

hRecipe support ufxtract

Glenn Jones — 2011-08-22T07:43:55

Had a request to add hRecipe support to ufXtract, which is now in place

Example using API
http://ufxtract.com/api/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fallrecipes.com%2FRecipe%2Fslow-cooker-chicken-and-dumplings%2Fdetail.aspx&format=hrecipe&output=json&callback=

Test Suite
http://ufxtract.com/testsuite/hrecipe/

Source Code for library
https://github.com/glennjones/ufxtract


Also fixed a couple of bugs with JSON output at the same time.

Cheers  Glenn

Migrating microformats.org may interrupt mailing listoperation

Rohit Khare — 2011-07-14T07:45:39

Hi âÂ I'm in the process of planning to complete our migration to a new hosting
sponsor by the end of this weekend.

As part of that migration, we may experience a temporary interruption of service
as we bring down the list server and change DNS to point at our new mailers.

Thanks in advance for your patience,
  Rohit Khare

schema.org, microformats.org, hRecipe

thomas lörtsch — 2011-06-29T09:55:20

Hi all,

I don't want to discuss the schema.org effort in general here, although there surely is a lot to discuss about it. My question is how collaboration between Google.com and microformats.org is organized, where it's taking place, who is involved. I'm sure there is and has always been some informal exchange, since people happen to know each other, meet at confernces or other events etc, and of course that's fine with me. I was wondering though when I read the following statement in a transcript of the Schema.org BOF at SemTech 2011 <http://www.w3.org/2011/06/semtech-bof-notes.html>:

This sounds like quite some conversations, discussions and thorough work. Now I wonder: how specifically did that "great" and "successfull" work "with the open community" go? Where did it take place? Who was involved? And what exactly was worked out?
I won't hesitate to admit that I wasn't a very good editor of hRecipe since summer 2009 but I still am the editor as indicated on the hRecipe wikipage. I wasn't contacted by anyone regarding Rich Snippets, Schema.org or any other Google activity. Also I couldn't find any mention on the mailinglists or on the wiki. So, please: what's going on, what did I miss? Or how is this "open"?

Since Schema.org now promotes a recipe vocabulary that is slightly different from hRecipe and also more elaborated I would like to discuss what to do about that: maybe analyze the differences, observe uptake, then align hRecipe where appropriate etc. But before I start to work on that I'd like to understand what happened until now.

Cheers,
Thomas Lörtsch

°|´ < in pursuit of the gestalt of it all />
^^^

What to do about SEO abuse of hcard-examples-in-wild?

Edward O'Connor — 2011-05-11T17:51:12

Hi.

Lately there have been lots of questionable edits to the
hcard-examples-in-wild page. I don't mean outright spam edits, which
happen there about as often as on the rest of the wiki. The linked pages
do technically have hCards on them. But there are many links from
hcard-examples-in-wild to pages of dubious utility. Some examples:

* http://www.newtosandiego.com/Ocean-Beach-People's-Organic-Foods-Co-op/
* http://howdoyouknowifyouhavebedbugs.com/
* and many more along those lines.

I suspect some "SEO specialists" have adopted hCard on spammy pages like
these precisely so they can link to them from our (high PageRank) wiki.

Personally, I think we should more heavily curate, or maybe even remove,
this page. Back when hCard was new, having real-world examples was
helpful to implementors. These days, hCards are on hundreds of millions
of web pages. We can meet the needs of implementors by having a much
smaller list of examples.

Thoughts?


Ted

Wiki Vandalized...

John Beales — 2011-04-28T03:54:44

Hey All,

I'm not sure where I'm supposed to post this, but it appears that the wiki's been vandalized. See these pages, (there may be more):

http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=On_using_Steroids_vs._Performance-Enhancing_Supplements&rcid=56954
http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=A_Women%27s_Guide_to_Buying_Designer_Jeans&rcid=56955
http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Popular_For_Many_Reasons&rcid=56956
http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=every_one_of_us_regularly&rcid=56957
http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Beautiful_Chanel_Designer_Handbags&rcid=56958


- John

Proposal for 'repeatable' class - Comments andsuggestions needed

Glenn Jones — 2011-04-23T08:43:03

Hi All

At the recent Brighton meet-up we discussed the use of microformats to mark up forms. The only major point of disagreement seemed to be over the proposed "repeatable" class. This class would be used to demark parts of forms that can be repeated, so users can pick multiples of one item.

I have tried to gather together the evidence for why I think this is an important authoring pattern that needs to be addressed. It would be great to hear different views on this and alternative solutions.

I have added a wiki page with the information please feel free to edit it. 
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-input-repeatable


Below is the current content of the page:  
 
Evidence of repeating sub form patterns in the wild
This commonly used authoring pattern allows a user to add multiples of one item. The UI often has a JavaScript text link offering to add another form element or group forms i.e. "Add another email address". The additional form elements are nearly always added using JavaScript.  This type of UI is most commonly used in social network profile pages and web based address book applications. 
As the examples below are a complex mixture of HTML, CSS and JavaScript it's not possible to copy the code into the wiki. Instead I have listed a number of high profile sites that use this UI design and the current elements where they are allowing the user to add multiples of one item.
   
https://profiles.google.com/ profile edit page - Emails, Addresses, Phones, URLs, Employment, Education 
http://www.plaxo.com/ profile edit page -  Emails, Addresses, Phones, IM, Webpages
http://www.facebook.com/ profile edit page - Employment, Education, Interests, Emails, IM, Phones 
http://address.mail.yahoo.com/ edit contact page - Email, Address, URLs, Phone, IM, URLs, Birthdays (dates), Notes 
https://mail.google.com/ edit contact page - Email Phone Address, Birthdays (dates), URLs


 
Evidence of repeater patterns in declarative languages 
There are examples of declarative languages that have repeatable attributes or elements - i.e. <repeatable> or <element repeatable="true">. They do tend to be where data binding is an integral part of the mark-up.  

ASPX
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/x4s0xktt(v=VS.71).aspx
<asp:repeater id=Repeater1 runat="server" datasource="<%# dataView1 >">
<ItemTemplate></ItemTemplate>
</asp:repeater>
 
XFORMS
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XForms/User_Interface_Elements/Repeat
<repeat id="lineset" nodeset="/my:lines/my:line">
<input ref="my:price">
<label>Line Item</label>
</input>
<input ref="< at >name">
<label>Name</label>
</input>
</repeat>

FLEX
http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.html?content=repeater_3.html
<mx:Repeater id="myrep" dataProvider="{myAC}"> 
<mx:Label id="Label1" text="This is loop #{myrep.currentItem}"/>
</mx:Repeater>

 
Current Proposal
When more than one item is stored in the pasted data and the corresponding HTML element  has the "repeatable" class, an auto-fill application will duplicate the whole DOM node and append it as a sibling underneath the original.

<div class="email repeatable">
   <label for="tel">telephone</label>
   <input class="value" id="tel" name="tel" type="text" />
</div>
 
If we had two emails in the data, the auto-fill application would produce the DOM structure below, from the mark-up above.
 
<div class="email repeatable">
   <label for="tel">telephone</label>
   <input class="value" name="tel" type="text" value="glennjonesnet-zHaIU10uUXsAvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org" />
</div>
<div class="email ">
   <label for="tel1">telephone</label>
   <input class="value" id="tel1" name="tel" type="text" value="glennjonesnet-zHaIU10uUXsAvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org" />
</div>
 
I know that forms constructed this way are so complex it may not be practical to use this repeatable feature idea, but it does provide a level of authoring flexibility which seems appropriate for a large number of use cases. Without it the full proposal for marking up forms with microformats becomes quite a bit weaker.  The word repeater seems a good label in line with the original W3C description for the use of the class attribute.

Thanks 
Glenn

Experimental Firefox and Chrome extensions to copy andpaste contacts

Glenn Jones — 2011-04-06T09:12:03

Hi All

Just put a couple of experimental Firefox and Chrome extensions up on my
blog that allow you to copy and paste hCards into form. The code is from
a larger project I am building, thought it would be interesting in light
of the discussions about marking up forms with microformats. 

http://glennjones.net/2011/04/contact-extensions/

Glenn

UK meet-up Tues April 12 - Brighton

Glenn Jones — 2011-04-01T11:51:37

Hi All

The meetup is going part social and part workshop to brainstorm the
input micorformat ideas. It's open to everyone who's interested in
microformats and semantic mark-up. If you are just want to join us for
the social element that's cool the current plan is keep the
brainstorming and discussion part to about an hour at the beginning of
the evening.

http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2011-04-uk
http://lanyrd.com/2011/ufukmeet-april11/

When
    2011-03-12 from 19:30 to 23:00 
Where
    Greene Room, The Cricketers Pub, Black Lion Street, Brighton, BN1
1ND, UK

As most people who said they who attended came from the Brighton area,
we have organised the event in Brighton, but it would be really nice to
see as many people as possible. Brighton is only 50 mins from London by
train and 4 leave Brighton every hour until 23:37.

If your thinking of attending please add your name to the wiki/lanyrd so
I can get idea on numbers.

Hope to see you there

Glenn Jones

General vcard help

John M. Dlugosz — 2011-03-28T23:21:25

My work-in-progress can be viewed at <http://led.dlugosz.com/contact>.

My immediate question is how do I decorate the FAX number?


<dl class="vcard">
<dt>PHONE</dt>
<dd class="tel">+1 800-818-5336</dd>

<dt>FAX</dt>
<dd class="tel">+1 214-295-9491</dd>

     ...


There is no element enclosing (just) the label FAX and the value, and XHTML prohibits a 
dummy div here.  So where do I put the "type=fax" information?

UK Meetup in April

Glenn Jones — 2011-02-27T11:53:12

Hi All

As suggested by Frances I have created an page for UK meet-up to get a
consensus on preferences when and where. If you're interested please
take a minute to add yourself to the attendee list and not your
preferences.

http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2011-04-uk

Thanks
Glenn Jones

Images not displaying during mailing list registration

Michael Elliot — 2011-02-25T05:15:09

Hello,

When registering with a mailing list, most of the images are forbidden
(e.g. http://microformats.org/images/mailman/PythonPowered.png) and
thus not displaying correctly.


Regards,

Michael Elliot
Network Digital

Meetup to workshop/brainstorm input microformat ideas

Glenn Jones — 2011-02-22T08:46:08

Hi All

If there is a enough interested I would like to setup a UK meet-up to
workshop/brainstorm the input microformat ideas. The week of 10-17 April
looks good as Tantek is in the UK and most people are back from SXSWi.
Jeremy Keith said he would be interested. I could arrange a small event
in London or Brighton. 

What about everyone else? It's been a while since we had a UK
microformats meetup.

Glenn

moving drafts forward - process-brainstorming: draft,specification, standard

Tantek Çelik — 2011-02-19T03:04:03

It's been noted[1][2] that no drafts are making it to specification,
and in short there are two reasons for this:

1. Lack of steps in the process[3] for how a draft should proceed to
specification and what each of those mean (other than the summary on
the Main Page[4]), including lack of documentation of implicit
assumptions such as that all outstanding issues must be resolved on a
draft (and any patterns it depends on) before we can in good
conscience make it a specification. As the editor/maintainer of the
process, I accept full personal responsibility for this.

2. Blocking issues. During the development of various drafts we
encountered a few blocker cross-microformat issues (e.g.
accessibility, internationalization) which were potentially doing
harm. Since then, those cross-microformat issues have been
resolved[5], and we've been incorporating those resolutions into the
specifications (e.g. hCard, hCalendar) as well as into resolutions of
spec-specific issues.


I've been working the past few weeks on addressing #1 above.

Having had the experience of confronting and overcoming these
cross-microformat issues, as well as close experience with the
document stages in W3C and IETF (and what works / is pragmatically
useful vs what is mostly just bureaucratic), I've developed the
following minimal process brainstorm:

http://microformats.org/wiki/process-brainstorming

Summary: three defined document stages:

* draft: consensus among brainstorm proposals, experimental, it's
ready for trial on the public web.

* specification: all outstanding issues resolved, stable, 1+ real
world publisher(s)+consumer(s), it's ready to depend on.

* standard: (new) test suite and 2+ interoperable real world
publisher(s)+consumer(s) for each feature, errata only, what the
market has accepted.


These are strictly summaries - please see
http://microformats.org/wiki/process-brainstorming for more precise
preconditions, actions, definitions, stability, and example steps to
take.


Please raise any *major* problems you note directly in an "Issues"
section on the process brainstorming page.


Assuming no major problems are found (minor are ok to fix in
iterations) in the next few days, I plan on incorporating this
brainstorm into the process itself[3] and starting to take various
current/mature specifications and drafts forward to exercise these new
steps / definitions to see how well they work in practice.


In short: I believe we can quickly get many specifications to the new
level of "standard" (e.g. hCard, hCalendar) after perhaps some
trimming of unused properties, as well as several drafts to
"specification" (e.g. hReview, hAtom) with an iteration that
incorporates issue resolutions having especially to do with the
cross-microformat issues noted above.

Thanks,

Tantek


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microformat#Evaluation_of_microformats
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Dec/0089.html
[3] http://microformats.org/wiki/process
[4] http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page#Specifications
[5] http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern

input microformats for auto-filling forms

Glenn Jones — 2011-02-15T19:08:47

Hi All

I am interested in the use of microformats to mark-up forms. The
discussion of building better auto-fill applications and browser
extensions using microformats has been going on for a couple of years. 

Currently, I am starting a couple of projects with interfaces where
users can link, drag or copy contacts. Input microformats would be an
important addition to these projects. This concept would also be useful
for any project using the W3C Contacts API. Hopefully, the
draggables.com idea gives some insight into how this could mature. 

I have spent a couple of days putting together a brainstorm/proposal of
how this could work. If you're interested in this idea, could you
feedback your thoughts. The wiki is the best place to do this, just vote
up or down any ideas and add comments wherever possible. Wish it could
of been done in a workshop, but the wiki will do.

http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-input-brainstorming

If there is enough interest and feedback from the community, I will
build the unit tests and a reference application based on the js parser
Micorformats Shiv. The final aim been to create extensions for Firefox,
Chrome and Safari

Thanks

Glenn

Draggables code and demos live

Glenn Jones — 2011-02-02T15:04:04

Hi Everyone

I have just put up the draggables code and demos. For those who have not
heard draggables before, it's a javascript library that allows users to
exchange data between unrelated web sites using drag and drop. It uses
microformats behind the scenes.

http://draggables.com/

Glenn

The wiki has been spammed

Alexandre Patry — 2011-01-30T03:07:15

Hi,

I just wanted to inform you that your wiki (at least 
http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page) has been spammed.

Best regards,

Alexandre