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    <link>http://gmane.org</link>
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  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24067">
    <title>[gsc] "systemically important"</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24067</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Wall Street Journal says Comex has been classified as 'too big to fail'
Submitted by cpowell on Fri, 2012-05-25 06:09. Section: Daily Dispatches

A Mess the 45th President Will Inherit

Taxpayers Now Stand Behind Derivatives Clearinghouses

 From the Wall Street Journal
Thursday, May 24, 2012

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230484090457742239316410627...

President Obama's standard gripe is that the economy has performed so 
poorly during his term because of the financial crisis he inherited from 
George W. Bush. But this week it is Mr. Obama who has bequeathed to his 
successors a landmark in financial regulation. It is bound to haunt 
them, though not as much as it will haunt taxpayers.

J.P. Morgan's recent trading loss and the resulting Washington blather 
about tighter regulation have grabbed headlines.

Little noticed is that on Tuesday Team Obama took its first formal steps 
toward putting taxpayers behind Wall Street derivatives trading -- not 
behind banks that might make mistakes in derivatives markets, but behind 
the trading itself. Yes, the same crew that rails against the dangers of 
derivatives is quietly positioning these financial instruments directly 
above the taxpayer safety net.

As we noted in May 2010, the authority for this regulatory achievement 
was inserted into Congress's pending financial reform bill by 
then-Senator Chris Dodd. Two months later, the legislation was re-named 
Dodd-Frank and signed into law by Mr. Obama. One part of the law forces 
much of the derivatives market into clearinghouses that stand behind 
every trade. Mr. Dodd's pet provision creates a mechanism for bailing 
out these clearinghouses when they run into trouble.

... Dispatch continues below ...

Specifically, the law authorizes the Federal Reserve to provide 
"discount and borrowing privileges" to clearinghouses in emergencies. 
Traditionally the ability to borrow from the Fed's discount window was 
reserved for banks, but the new law made clear that a clearinghouse 
receiving assistance was not required to "be or become a bank or bank 
holding company." To get help, they only needed to be deemed 
"systemically important" by the new Financial Stability Oversight 
Council chaired by the Treasury Secretary.

Last year regulators finalized rules for how they would use this new 
power. On Tuesday, they began using it. The Financial Stability 
Oversight Council secretly voted to proceed toward inducting several 
derivatives clearinghouses into the too-big-to-fail club. After further 
review, regulators will make final designations, probably later this 
year, and will announce publicly the names of institutions deemed 
systemically important.

We're told that the clearinghouses of Chicago's CME Group and 
Atlanta-based Intercontinental Exchange were voted systemic this week, 
and rumor has it that the council may even designate London-based 
LCH.Clearnet as critical to the U.S. financial system.

U.S. taxpayers thinking that they couldn't possibly be forced to stand 
behind overseas derivatives trading will not be comforted by remarks 
from Commodity Futures Trading Commission Chairman Gary Gensler. On 
Monday he emphasized his determination to extend Dodd-Frank derivatives 
regulation to overseas markets when subsidiaries of U.S. firms are involved.

Readers know Mr. Gensler as the chief regulator of MF Global, which was 
run into bankruptcy by his old Beltway and Goldman Sachs pal Jon 
Corzine. An estimated $1.6 billion is still missing from MF Global 
customer accounts. What an amazing feat Mr. Gensler will have performed 
if, through his agency's oversight, he can manage to have U.S. customers 
eat the cost of Mr. Corzine's bets on foreign debt and have U.S. 
taxpayers underwrite bets in foreign derivatives trading.

If there's one truth we've learned about government financial backstops, 
it's that sooner or later they will be used. So eventually taxpayers 
will have to bail out one derivatives clearinghouse or another. It 
promises to be quite a mess. And if the 45th president spends his first 
term whining about his predecessor's mistakes, he'll have a point.



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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>pintle</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-26T12:30:08</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24060">
    <title>[gsc] Why we are not on the road to serfdom</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24060</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Article here:

http://www.garynorth.com/public/9550.cfm

Excerpts:

...

...




&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Patrick Chkoreff</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-25T12:01:08</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24059">
    <title>[gsc] misc.</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24059</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Cafe:

...
Greyerz - Customer Shocked "Allocated" Gold Not in Swiss Bank

Today Egon von Greyerz told King World News that a client went to move a 
significant amount of "allocated" gold from a Swiss bank, but the bank 
shocked the customer because they did not have the gold. Egon von 
Greyerz is founder and managing partner at Matterhorn Asset Management 
out of Switzerland. Von Greyerz also said, "the risk of having gold in 
the banking system is major." But first, here is what Greyerz had to say 
about the bank runs in Europe: "This is just amazing, Eric, you couldn’t 
write a better story than this. We have bank runs in Greece and Spain, 
and now a French bank, one of the biggest mortgage banks, is also having 
problems. Ireland, they thought they were alright, but they need more 
money."
...

Effects of SWIFT exclusion at the ground level
Hi Bill,
Let me share with you anecdotes related to Iran's exclusion from SWIFT. 
My Malaysian friend visited over the weekend. She rents out an apartment 
in Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia. She complained that her 
tenants (an Iranian couple) could not pay the full rent for last month 
as their money was "stuck". Her previous tenants were 2 Iranian women 
who had to move out because they could not receive their monthly 
payments from back home. I told her to tell her existing tenants that 
she would accept payment in gold dinars!

By the way: there are many Iranian expats in Malaysia (part of a big 
middle-eastern community who appreciate the moderate muslim environment, 
great range of mid-east produce etc) Many middle-eastern expats in 
Singapore, Malaysia are in fact not muslim. They may be Christian, 
Bahais or athiest. Most are highly-educated and world travellers.
...

Bill H:

Just like Lay's potato chips, "you can't have just one".

To all; Do remember the old Lay's potato chips commercials? I was 
thinking about "bank runs" 
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/fears-of-bank-runs-increase-in-europe-a-833879.html 
and remembered "you can't just have one". The thing is, not only is it 
"you can't just have one", once you have one...you have lots. This truly 
is where we are now, a series of bank runs in southern Europe will not 
be contained there. The evidence over the last week or so suggests that 
the herd is getting spooked and starting withdrawals, not huge yet but 
definitely "noticeable". "Noticeable" by the way is bad, very bad. It is 
just common sense, if one bank gets run, it's next door neighbor will 
etc. etc. because no one knows who is healthy and who is not. In fact, 
the mindset is becoming "they're all sick", that's what the global 
protests are all about.

We are now 4 years into The Greatest Depression where program after 
program and policy response after policy response has done nothing to 
turn the global economy upwards. With each and every new program, we 
were told that "we were saved", again and again and again. But guess 
what, even little children begin to lose patience after awhile and 
figure out that that they're not being told the truth. What I am getting 
at here is that on a global basis, the "ruling class" is (nearly past 
tense "has") losing credibility. This is very important because in a 
fiat system of money, credibility is, well, IT'S EVERYTHING! 
"Confidence" is everything and a bank run by definition is a loss of 
confidence.

At this point it doesn't matter where or how small the bank is that gets 
"run", just like the little spark to the fire that burned down 1,600 
homes here in Texas last year, it will spread and it will spread 
quickly. This is far different than late 2008, early 2009. It is 
different because back then there was "faith". Faith that "the 
government will never let it happen". Now, governments have already used 
their ammo and it has not worked in a very public manner. Governments 
have spent, printed and borrowed and are now no longer seen as the 
Savior to the problems, no, they are now seen as a BIG PART of the 
problems which goes back to the "credibility issue". This lack of 
credibility, lack of faith or trust has always led to (in the case of 
banks) bank runs. But...the old days were different...because the money 
was different, it was real.

The "real" bank run, the one that governments themselves are fearful of 
is the one that comes AFTER John and Jane Doe have initially panicked. 
You see where I'm going I am sure. What happens when people actually get 
pieces of paper in hand? Easy, they will spend it. On "stuff". Those who 
have "enough" stuff will want to "save" it. Yes, here we are again, 
Gold. You see, what is happening is not about the "banks" or the 
leverage in use, the mal investment or fraud, no, it's about the money 
itself. Banks runs are merely a symptom, not the cause. But once the 
populace begins to "run banks", scrutiny of "the money" itself will come 
very close behind. I must say that "they" have done a far better job of 
prolonging this end game much further than I could have imagined but the 
sheep are getting restless. You can smell it and even see it in print. 
Once you see lines or read about an electronic run, scrutiny of "the 
money" is next. By the way, unlike the slow motion train wreck we have 
so far experienced, bank runs happen very quickly. A "withdrawal of 
offers" in the Gold market will eventually happen overnight and be the 
equivalent of your bank telling you "sorry, we ran out of money". 
Regards, Bill H…

A busted Facebook deal.

To all; the Facebook IPO from this past Friday has gone underwater this 
morning. For such a big AND important offering to go negative so soon 
after the initial trade is nearly unheard of. This was hyped all last 
week and had been anticipated ALL year long, how in the world could they 
let this happen? Now, an already pissed off public is more pissed off 
because the "sure deal" and easy money is now just another loss. This by 
the way goes back to the previous piece that I sent this morning, 
credibility is going up in smoke.

CNBC reported this morning that IPO desks still have stock available and 
that some has even come back from brokers "DK'ed". I must say that my 
experience in watching IPO's that did not go to an immediate premium, 
the "syndicate bid" would last at least a week, Facebook, the biggest 
and most famous of all lost this support in less than a full trading 
day? I don't understand it because as I mentioned earlier, this is very 
VERY damaging to credibility with the sheople. Where was the PPT (plunge 
protection team) when they were needed? Did they fall asleep at the 
wheel? Facebook was supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread 
and is now down nearly 20% for early after trade release buyers. I would 
bet that when we look back at this, the Facebook saga will be tagged as 
an inflection point of confidence!

Briefly on the JP Morgan saga, the supposed "$2 Billion" loss just does 
not add up. Jamie Dimon announced today that JPM is discontinuing its 
share buybacks, this, NOT being connected to the loss. Huh? What firm 
would ever pour gasoline on the bonfire of their own stock? Not 
connected? Only $2 Billion? MY ASS! Again, back to what I have been 
harping about recently, "confidence" or lack of. Bank runs, inter 
sovereign currency swaps, busted mega IPO's, smoke billowing out of JP 
Morgan...it does all add up. I guess the hope is that the sheople are so 
dumbed down as to not being able to connect any of the dots. The problem 
is, human nature and the desire to "self preserve", this is the stuff 
that people have bred into them and can't be "schooled out" of them very 
easily. It is and has been all about confidence. Current events...? 
Inspiring? Just watch the reaction! Regards, Bill H.
...

Well, Frank has been silent about gold for many years until last Friday. 
Here is an excerpt of what Frank had to say. Of note is that he has 
never referred to gold in a monetary sense…

May 18, 2012

Executive Summary

1. In the pre-war era economies never voluntarily became highly 
indebted. There were frequent recessions. They were usually accompanied 
with price deflation. Price deflation is death to debtors. The frequent 
and sometimes very extreme pain of cyclical debt deflations kept 
indebtedness in check.

2. In the post-war period central banks would not allow deflation. 
Furthermore, whenever a serious recession threatened debt deflation 
dynamics, there was a bailout by Big Government and the Big Central Bank 
to avert it.

3. Hyman Minsky recognized that, with each successive bailout by the 
government and the central bank, perceptions of risk by private market 
participants would be reduced. Risk taking would be ratcheted up.

4. The result would be ever greater financial fragility, ever higher 
levels of indebtedness, ever greater vulnerability to a severe debt 
deflation.

5. In 2007 this grand debt super cycle reached a pinnacle. With so much 
financial fragility, there erupted a financial crisis and economic 
recession greater than anything the world had seen since the 1930s.

6. If things had been left in the hands of the "free market" we would 
have had another Great Depression. Modern societies will not tolerate that.

7. So then what happens? There is yet another and even greater bailout 
by Big Government and the Big Central Bank. That is what the Great 
Bailout of 2008-2009 was all about.

8. But it has not ended. High indebtedness in Japan, Europe, and even 
China has created new crises.

9. Big Governments and Big Central Banks must continue to intervene.

10. Central bankers have acted like they had independence and could 
impose restraint. That was their pipe dream and a societal fiction. 
Central banks are the creations and vassals of states in a world with 
intolerably high indebtedness and body politics that do not want market 
processes that would destroy these debts.

11. Central bankers will have to do two things: bail out again and 
again, AND IN THE END INFLATE THE DEBTS DOWN.

12. This is the message of the reign of Helicopter Ben Bernanke. This is 
the message of the current move in Japan to override independence of a 
foot dragging BOJ.

13. This will be the message when the ECB has to take the coming bold 
measures to arrest the current banking run I discussed yesterday.

14. When the ECB is forced to cave and act it may finally become clear 
to market participants that the body politics around the world will 
demand that central banks implement debt eroding inflations.

15. With the death of the myth of independent central banking, gold 
should assume a unique position as a monetary asset. I think we are very 
close to this point.

***

One of my favorite financial market stories of all time is what Frank 
produced on November 19, 1999. It is worth a full read, especially as to 
how it might reflect on future market action (as per what Bill H sent us 
below)…

Frank Veneroso
Veneroso Associates

The Stock Market

Recollections of the Greatest Market Bubble Ever…

Memories of the Souk al Manakh



How large can a bubble grow before it bursts? Farther than you think. 
And there need not be a fatal pinprick that makes it burst. And when it 
bursts, the crash that ensues can be deeper and more discontinuous than 
you could ever imagine.

In May of 1982, while the bear market in US stocks was in its deepest 
throes, and the epic bear market in US bonds was still completing its 
base, I was called to advise on the greatest stock market bubble of all 
time---the Souk al Manakh in the Persian Gulf. Kuwait had had an 
organized stock market for some time. The great wealth created in Kuwait 
by the rise in the oil price in the 1970's led to seemingly endless 
appreciation in Kuwaiti stocks. In the Arab states in those days, only 
sheiks could grant corporate charters, and only corporations could 
become publicly traded companies. The royal family of Kuwait did not 
freely grant corporate charters for companies that might become vehicles 
for stock speculation, so there was a shortage of stocks to trade. This 
shortage and the new unparalleled wealth that was looking for vehicles 
of speculation gave rise to an over the counter market in Kuwait city 
where shares in companies domiciled elsewhere in the Gulf---principally 
Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates---were traded. Housed in a 
converted air-conditioned parking garage, this market was known as the 
Souk al Manakh---the camel market.

I was asked at the time by the government of the United Arab Emirates to 
advise on the creation of a stock exchange in the Emirates. Great 
fortunes were being made in shares of companies domiciled in the 
Emirates at the time. Why not bring all this wonderful new stock market 
activity home?

For six weeks I worked out of an office in the UAE central bank in Abu 
Dhabi. The city was modern, laid out along a crescent beach at the end 
of a promontory into the Gulf. The central bank was a modern glass 
building behind severe cement columns that met in graceful Moorish 
arches. From a great glass window of this modern building, I could see 
along a turquoise backwater old tanned fisherman working on brightly 
painted ancient fishing dhows that were beached on the blinding sands. 
The Sheik of Abu Dhabi was the richest man in the world then. Only a few 
decades earlier his brother, the former ruler, was afraid to walk the 
streets of what was then a small sandy seaside fishing village for fear 
of his creditors.

Being a macro oriented, top-down man, I set about to see how great a 
supply of stocks had been made available for trading on a formal market 
in the UAE. The results were simply unbelievable. The market 
capitalization of the Kuwait exchange and the Souk al Manakh combined 
ranked third in the world, behind the US and Japan. It was greater than 
that of the UK with all its foreign listed companies. How could this be? 
I asked, for both geographically and economically speaking, these few 
countries---Kuwait, Bahrain, and the Emirates (the former Trucial States 
under British domination)---were only postage stamps of sand on the 
globe. Oil had brought wealth to these small countries but their 
combined economies were still very small compared to those of the US or 
Japan or the UK. More striking was the fact that most of the visible 
wealth was not reflected in these companies. The rulers of these 
sheikdoms owned the oil wealth. The hugely expensive real estate was 
privately held, as were the extremely lucrative import franchises. What 
assets and income underpinned these multi-billion dollar market caps?

We did a bottoms up study to find out. In Bahrain, a financial center, 
there were banks, seemingly of substance. There was a raft of companies 
that made cement and clinker. These companies were domiciled in five 
former Trucial states whose names you never heard of that, alas, had no 
oil. There was a company or two that imported sheep and goats for 
slaughter. And then there was a handful of other companies whose 
principal activities were not at all obvious.

The Sheik of Abu Dubai was the richest man in the world at the time and 
the Ruler of Dubai was also quite well to do. The five other sheiks who 
had no oil were poor cousins. For founders shares these oil poor sheiks 
granted charters for corporations that could be traded on the Souk al 
Manakh. I can remember driving one day to a small derelict town that was 
the capital of one of these oil poor sheikdoms to analyze a company with 
a high flying stock on Kuwait's OTC market. For the life of me, on the 
balance sheet of this company I could find no assets of any kind. It 
dawned on me that, behind most of this third ranking stock market cap in 
the world, there were only a few cement and clinker plants, a slaughter 
house or two, and quite a few shell games.

How do you tell your host government that the stock market they want to 
bring home is a shell game? I pondered this diplomatic quandary for 
weeks as I looked out my office window at those ancient painted dhows in 
the desert sun. In the end I mustered the courage to tell the truth. "It 
is all a bubble," I told my client-. "And it will burst." To my relief 
and amazement, I was greeted, not with displeasure, but with laughter.

"You Westerners have been coming here for five years", they told me, 
"and to a man you all have predicted a crash. Don't you understand, 
there has never been a place on earth like the Gulf with such 
unprecedented wealth? You will never understand that the Gulf market 
cannot crash."

I had a long time friend in London. His name was Ali. He was one of 
several Anglo Arab investment bankers that flourished in London in those 
years. When I passed through London on my way back to the US I stopped 
to tell him about my trip. Speculation on the Souk al Manakh was 
financed with a curious type of informal margin financing by way of post 
dated checks. So rapid was the rise in the Gulf market that post dated 
checks paid an interest rate of 100% per annum. Ali was financing 
speculators in this market. He listened and he smiled.

At the beginning of August I had completed my report for the government 
of the UAE. I told them that the market they wanted to organize was a 
bubble and that it would crash. Some weeks later I heard from Ali. He 
called to thank me for my advice on my recent visit. He had called in 
all his post dated checks. "Did you hear what happened to the Souk?", he 
asked. "No", I replied. "Well, it topped quietly at mid summer after you 
left, with no provocation. One can't quite say it declined or it 
crashed; it has just stopped trading."

The Souk al Manakh was the greatest speculative mania of all time. One 
could not even speak of valuation. Margin financing reached unimaginable 
extremes; one speculator, who had been a customs clerk two years 
earlier, had at the peak $14 billion in stocks financed with $14 billion 
of margin debt. The people involved believed that the oil rich Gulf was 
truly a "New Era". It did not take a trigger to burst this bubble; it 
simply crested sometime in the dreadful heat of the Middle East's 
summer. Its decline was so discontinuous it cannot be called a crash. 
There were simply no bids. ¨

-END-

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>pintle</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-24T17:23:18</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24058">
    <title>[gsc] Free banking a dangerous myth</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24058</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Free banking a dangerous myth

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18186363

 Warning: Article is incomprehensible to the uninitiated as the comments at the
bottom show.

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Rayservers Blog Admin</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-24T10:20:27</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24057">
    <title>[gsc] conversation continues</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24057</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Today at 2 p.m, then Friday at 2 p.m.

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-22T18:54:50</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24053">
    <title>[gsc] conversation continues</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24053</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;The conversation on agorism and free market money continues
today at 2 p.m. central (GMT-5) for two hours.

Mumble server config available on request.

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-21T18:22:05</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24049">
    <title>[gsc] Jokes apart: govt changing baby diaper</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24049</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;I used to sarcastically talk about how UK PLC's Parliament squabbles about diaper
changes... real life imitating sarcasm:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9273559/No-10-guide-to-changing-nappies-and-baby-talk.html

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Rayservers Blog Admin</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-18T20:35:03</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24045">
    <title>[gsc] Oil Reserves for Struggling Families</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24045</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/g8/9273371/G8-summit-David-Cameron-to-hold-talks-with-Barack-Obama-about-tapping-into-emergency-oil-reserves.html

The floodgates are opening. Prepare to watch those markets drop like pancakes!


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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Rayservers Blog Admin</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-18T19:17:19</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24044">
    <title>[gsc] conversation continues</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24044</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Today at 2 p.m. (six minutes from now) central time (GMT-5).

The conversation on agorism and free market money.

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-18T18:54:18</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24043">
    <title>[gsc] TSA Agents Conduct ‘Full Monty’ Pat-Down On Henry Kissinger</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24043</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;As a convicted war criminal, Kissinger could arguably be considered a
potentially dangerous individual meriting a security pat-down.  But
alas, it appears the TSA drones were merely victimizing some old man in
a wheelchair without any clue who he was:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/14/tsa-agents-conduct-full-monty-pat-down-on-henry-kissinger/


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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Kevin Wilkerson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-16T19:45:48</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24042">
    <title>[gsc] a listing</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24042</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;A friend sent this listing.

Thomas Greco, master monetary theorist and practitioner, wrote _The
End of Money and the Future of Civilization_. He calls for a
&amp;lt;a
href="http://beyondmoney.net/excerpts/chapter-17-complete-web-based-trading-platform/"&amp;gt;web-based
credit clearing system with four essential attributes.&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
I hope Greco's design criteria can also influence this project's
development.

I just finished a maniacal three-week web search for such systems. My
short list follows.

(This is adapted from my blog post,  &amp;lt;a
href="http://andrewdurham.com/2012/02/money-without-debt/"&amp;gt;money
without debt&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;. I'm hoping there's at least one or two here you
don't already know about :)  )

---
&amp;lt;a href="http://www.ces.org.za/"&amp;gt;Community Exchange System&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;. CES is
international, free, simple, compatible with paper systems,
deceptively lo-fi and super cool. Very close to what the
aforementioned godfather of new money calls for

Other worthy systems:
&amp;lt;a href="http://payswarm.com/"&amp;gt;payswarm.com&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; web standards-based,
frictionless, wildly adaptable
&amp;lt;a href="http://picomoney.com/"&amp;gt;picomoney.com&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; clever, based on
&amp;lt;a href="http://opentransact.org"&amp;gt;opentransact.org&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; which is
similar to payswarm
&amp;lt;a href="http://cyclos.org/"&amp;gt;cyclos.org&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; open source software to
run your own bank, complete with free hosting; soul boggling!
&amp;lt;a href="http://ripplepay.com/"&amp;gt;ripplepay.com&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; solves LETS
accountability concerns, unfortunately asocial
&amp;lt;a href="http://e-flux.com/timebank"&amp;gt;e-flux.com/timebank&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; hip and simple
&amp;lt;a href="http://friendlyfavors.org/"&amp;gt;friendlyfavors.org&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt; 2nd
largest after CES, most social, clever, and a bit complicated
&amp;lt;a href="http://johnturmel.com/uniset.htm"&amp;gt;johnturmel.com/uniset.htm&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
very simple, start alone now
&amp;lt;a
href="http://www.personocratia.com/en/documents/game-full-document.pdf"&amp;gt;JEU/GAME&amp;lt;/a&amp;gt;
not web but paper-based, very elegant, semi-private, decentralized
accounting, compatible with CES, best for when the lights go out.

CES is the most accessible, practical, and mature. Others, like
payswarm and opentransact, have much greater potential. Open source
money has finally gotten legs, wings... and teeth.

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-17T04:16:21</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24041">
    <title>[gsc] Bill H</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24041</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;[Sentiment out there towards gold/silver/shares is really awfull. 
Astounding, at this point in the game.]

In the meantime we have Bill H to put this train wreck in perspective…

Preventing the "Ultimate"Bank Run.

To all; I titled this piece "preventing the ultimate bank run" because 
it is exactly what is being done every single day. Taking a step back, 
2007 to present has been all about preventing actual AND virtual bank 
runs. "Actual" being lines of human beings and "virtual" being 
electronic withdrawals. All actions taken in 2007 and since then, 
whatever they were named, were all about sustaining "confidence" in the 
banking system. If you remember, many sovereign governments stepped up 
to the plate in 2008 and '09 and actually "guaranteed" 100% of deposits. 
A "run" had to be avoided at ALL costs.

Oddly enough though, the implementation of ZIRP (zero interest rate 
policy) was short sighted and worked against "preventing a run". 
Depositors have had less and less incentive to leave balances in the 
banks because their returns were approaching zero. Not only were hard 
asset prices rising because of currency debasement, savers were being 
pushed to look for alternatives. SOME chose hard assets which over time 
has added to the rising prices, NOT what the policy makers desired. As a 
side note, banks (JP Morgan's recent loss as evidence) have been starved 
for yield by ZIRP and done some things that would have been laughed at 
or sent to jail for in years past.

For the last 2-3 years, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and Italian banks 
have watched as deposits slowly exited. In the case of Greece, their 
banks have very little cushion left to fulfill withdrawals and as 
history shows, these events grow and feed on "themselves". Obviously, a 
bank run anywhere in the world with current confidence and sentiment as 
shaky as it is could be disastrous. But, this type of run, whether you 
actually see lines or whether it is done electronically, is not the 
"ultimate" run. The ultimate bank run will be when investors begin to 
panic out of the very bedrock of the global banking system, the U.S. Dollar.

It is absolutely imperative that you understand exactly "what" your 
investments in Gold and Silver really are. They are the "anti Dollar" or 
in effect the "anti Treasury" security. In reality, when you made your 
purchase of precious metal you actually "front ran" the coming bank run. 
Think about it, YOU have already panicked out of the Dollar and did so 
before the rest of the herd. The old saying is very appropriate here, 
"if you are going to panic, do it early because he who panics first 
loses the least". Since I know that you understand that fiat currencies 
do not hold value and continually drop in purchasing power, I just 
wanted to more or less remind you of "why" you purchased precious metals 
in the first place.

Sentiment in precious metals is now unlike anything I have seen before 
in this bull market. It is exactly where "they" want it to prevent the 
"ultimate run". Every news report, every BLS statistic released, every 
"market price" that you see or hear is programmed to keep the herd from 
moving. In particular, "moving away" from the "banking system". If you 
have ever seen a herd of cattle then you can understand how stampedes 
(bank runs) happen. What starts out as a "stir" with a few head (or even 
just one) can grow and agitate others in the herd to move which then 
grows further and further until the entire herd is moving in a frenzy.

The "ultimate bank run" will mathematically happen, the only questions 
are when and how fast it happens. The Dollar cannot mathematically 
survive as it's issuance is being forced to move exponentially while the 
same time the economy cannot sustain yet more debt (Dollar issuance). 
This is not my opinion nor anyone's "opinion", this is fact. Do the math 
and do the logic (if you have not already) and you will have proof as to 
why you must own the precious metals. No matter what price you are 
"shown", just know that YOU have already "exited" and be relieved that 
you won't be trampled by the herd as they finally figure out what you 
already know. The ""goal" is to keep the herd from moving away from the 
Dollar, even steadfast precious metal Bulls are questioning their own 
logic and getting "scared". Don't let this happen to you, you "panicked 
early" and made the logical move and are no longer in danger. "Danger" 
is being part and parcel of a panicking herd! Regards and relax, Bill

[It looks like Mises' "crack up" is a fast "Big Bang" deflation, or 
there is a fast "Big Bang" deflation right at the end of Mises' "crack 
up" when the spike in the quantity of USD stops increasing and reverses.]

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>pintle</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-16T18:42:39</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24040">
    <title>[gsc] conversation Friday</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24040</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;The conversation on agorism and free market money continues
this Friday at 2 p.m. central time (GMT-5).

I'll be off doing work for the university on Thursday.

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-16T17:16:27</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24039">
    <title>[gsc] NY Times, April 1, 2020</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24039</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;http://www.jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/clip_image0028.jpg

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>pintle</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-16T17:05:27</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24037">
    <title>[gsc] conversation continues</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24037</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;The conversation on agorism and free market money continues
today at 2 p.m. central time (GMT-5).


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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-15T18:56:46</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24036">
    <title>[gsc] From Craig Spencer</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24036</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Higgs on how the state leads people to destruction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5GfHsQK8p8

And a fine invention for the vending machine set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twcgDzopc8I

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Jim Davidson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-14T04:55:16</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24032">
    <title>[gsc] government for dummies</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24032</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;A common man tries explaining government to a space alien:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;amp;v=6gCFBMoLtkY

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Kevin Wilkerson</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-11T23:26:42</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24027">
    <title>[gsc] US military teaching 'total war' on Islam</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24027</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18030105

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Rayservers Blog Admin</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-11T18:16:03</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24025">
    <title>[gsc] David Stockman</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24025</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;David Stockman discusses the end game of the current bubble:

http://lewrockwell.com/stockman/stockman11.1.html

Excerpts:











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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Patrick Chkoreff</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-11T14:14:17</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24024">
    <title>[gsc] Willie, May  10th</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24024</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;Willie's latest:

http://usawatchdog.com/the-last-innings-of-a-very-bad-ball-game/#more-7933

Gold Cover Clause Guidance

...
The upcoming Eastern SWIFT bank transaction system is almost ready for 
prime time, its development in progress. The Chinese will take the lead 
position, taking the flack, pushing the process, which will not resemble 
the current SWIFT system in the flow vehicle. The transition of 
political power in Beijing makes the timing perfect. The Iran sanctions 
served to galvanize the anti-USDollar movement. One source involved in 
the barter system design, at the fringe of the new SWIFT system, 
reported that the Iran sanctions did them a great favor, by bringing 
several newer nations to the planning room for integration in the new 
global trade transaction system. DO NOT BE SURPRISED TO HEAR IT HAS A 
GOLD FEATURE TO HANDLE THE TRADE. Rumors to the effect that the Chinese 
want to implement a gold backed trade settlement system outside the 
USDollar, have been confirmed by my great reliable indefatigable source.
...

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&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>pintle</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-11T08:17:18</dc:date>
  </item>
  <item rdf:about="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24023">
    <title>[gsc] #OpBLACKHEATH - NWO NUKED &lt;gg&gt; :) HOORAY!</title>
    <link>http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.finance.gold-silver-crypto/24023</link>
    <description>&lt;pre&gt;http://www.occupythebanks.com 


Especially:

http://www.occupythebanks.com/2012/05/opblackheath-iran-presstv-does-bbc-job.html

 
Best,


PP


"The man who owns a slave, or lives by exploiting others, whether slave or not, is not himself a free man. He is a man who must look over his shoulder all the time, in fear. True freedom lies in a deep concern for the freedom of others, and if this is accepted it should make every man, out of pure selfishness, the ardent devotee of the freedom of his neighbor." -Leonard Wibberly, 1776 - And All That (1975), p. 72.&lt;/pre&gt;</description>
    <dc:creator>Passive PROFITS</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2012-05-10T18:26:43</dc:date>
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