http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4701 <pre>* Sherwood Botsford &lt;sgbotsford&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; [2013-04-20 16:20]: [% FILTER replace('&lt;[^/&gt;][^&gt;]*\K&gt;', ' markdown="1"&gt;') # Perl 5.10+ required for \K %] &lt;div&gt; *Hooray!!* &lt;/div&gt; [% END %] </pre> Aristotle Pagaltzis 2013-05-02T17:28:56 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4700 <pre>sherwood said: we don't yet know the will of the people, sherwood. because "the people" generally do not even realize there is a problem with markdown fractionalization. all we have, thus far, are markdown _developers_ who continue to assert that "there isn't a problem" </pre> bowerbird 2013-05-01T20:18:18 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4699 <pre>I would argue that the &lt;markdown=1&gt; syntax should be extended to take markdown=2 etc to parse MD to the depth of two levels etc until markdown=true for infinite recursive parsing. Like that, a complex table could get markdown=true or the html tag could get the recursive parameter. Regards, jakov </pre> sendiulo< at >gmx.net 2013-04-21T06:59:41 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4698 <pre>The reason there are Aleph{null} implementations is that while good, it hasn't been good enough to keep people from just inserting raw html when they ran into a limit. If I followed the letter of the syntax rules, there would be no point in my using markdown. EVERYTHING in my pages is in a div. The top level description of my pages is &lt;head&gt; &lt;/head&gt; &lt;body&gt; &lt;div id="menu"&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;div id="content&gt; &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/body&gt; Inside those divs, are picture and pullquote divs. As you said, the purpose of MD is to make writing (and reading, and editing and proofing) easy. Ok. Easier. Writing is never easy. And the last thing I need is a bunch of &lt;a href=*(*&lt; at &gt;+F*C^(S*(_S(*#$$&amp;$&lt; at &gt;#&gt; tags getting in my way. Normally I want MD to be interpreted inside HTML tags. I have difficulting coming up with a case for NOT having them interpreted. Much as I froth at times about MD, it sure beats writing in html. *** Sorry. You poked the bear. Back to my hibernation... Respectfully, Sherwood of Sherwood's Forests She</pre> Sherwood Botsford 2013-04-21T03:40:00 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4697 <pre>I think the syntax rules regarding raw html [1] shed some light on this issue: In other words, if you want a *publishing* format, use raw HTML. If you want to wrap some text in a div to add styling hooks, fine. But if you want to format the contents of that div, then use HTML for that also. After all, "Markdown is not a replacement for HTML." Yes, some markdown implementations have added some optional extras, but those extras generally fit into the philosophy quoted above (see definition lists). That said, I have seen some pretty horrid requests for extending the syntax as the maintainer of the Python-Markdown project (which has an extensive API for writing extensions). While I agree that user defined extensions are an appropriate way to go, one should always be careful when introducing new syntax. John MacFarlane's FAQ [2] is evidence of that. [1]: http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax#html [2]: http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/faq.html -- ---- \X/ /-\ `/ |_ /-\ |\| Waylan Limberg ___</pre> Waylan Limberg 2013-04-20T22:05:52 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4696 <pre> My markdown doesn't have this &lt;div markdown=1&gt; option and this is what it looks like: http://s.natalian.org/2013-04-20/1366474134_1366x768.png Yes you can probably parse the content, but it looks broken to everyone else. Doesn't compare to HTML's "degrade gracefully" paradigm. Er, it's really hard to id and class markdown without &lt;div markdown=1&gt; support for example. Perhaps I've misunderstood you. I did find the markdown + options analogy to html + css pretty awful. I think you are totally missing the interoperability argument here. It might be great for you, but if you are investing a lot of effort into putting stuff in markdown, you need interoperability. Just imagine if say the markdown corpus of German laws https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze forked markdown so much you needed their special interpreter in order to read it easily? That would be ridiculous. I'm already super pissed that neither Debian's default markdown, nor pagedown nor https://github.com/Gottox/smu supports &lt;div markdown=1&gt;. I g</pre> Kai Hendry 2013-04-20T16:22:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4695 <pre>With respect to Aristotle Pagaltzis, I have to disagree, at least in part. Markdown is two things - a document format and some code to process text written in Markdown format into a different format, often HTML. Using a configuration file to adjust the actions of the code seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable approach, and I can't see how it will result in broken documents. Depending on what the config file holds, and what changes you make to the values, the output may look somewhat different, but broken? That seems a bit harsh. In fact you can likely change the the output by using a different library. As the discussions here illustrate, there is no bible for Markdown, just a number of similar but usually not identical options. If you want to change the appearance, changing the CSS is another option. A config file suits my personal preference for packages, so I'd probably use one happily, but I recognise that others will differ. In the end I rarely use Markdown, but I have incorporated some of the ide</pre> Paul Wilson 2013-04-20T15:43:31 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4694 <pre>I love standards. There are so many to choose from. Yes the core of MD is similar. But there are enough edge cases that you cannot count on being able to take MD from one location and using it at another. I would prefer to be able to control this behaviour either with a configuration file, or inline material, rather than having to edit the markup for each file itself. Doing it inline, means that in theory for each tweak there is a configuation value that follows the 'standard' (such as it isn't) and a value for the tweak. In the archives of this list there are records of many items discussing where Gruber's spec was ambiguous. And the canonical code doesn't make html that validates, as loose tags are surrounded by &lt;P&gt; tags. Fork my own? I've done that. I have the older CPAN version of MMD and have hacked the default value of the markdown flag so that it is 1 all the time. It's a crummy hack. I have to redo it every time I update my CPAN library for a new version of Perl. I write web pages. I</pre> Sherwood Botsford 2013-04-20T14:17:08 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4693 <pre>Le 19-avr.-2013 à 17:00, Sherwood Botsford &lt;sgbotsford&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; a écrit : CSS doesn't change how the HTML is parsed, only how it looks (and sometime how it behaves). Similarly, configuration options in a Markdown parser that let you adjust *the output* to your linking are very welcome. As for all the implementations, they mostly vary in edge cases and in their extensions to the core syntax. The core Markdown syntax (as defined by John Gruber) is pretty much the same everywhere, and this includes how HTML blocks are parsed. Implementations doing things differently than core Markdown are doing it mostly by adding restrictions out of security concerns with user-generated content. By the way, if you really feel like it you should go ahead and hack your preferred implementation to do what you want. Just keep in mind that your documents using this tweaked syntax feature won't work right with other implementations. This might or might not come to bite you in the future depending on what you intend to do wit</pre> Michel Fortin 2013-04-20T02:22:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4692 <pre>A good reply. You almost convince me. But at least with it being done by configuration, I can either ship the config file with the MD file, or I can manually change my config to match the sender's config. This is a bunch easier than installing a whole new version of MD and it's support structure because of a different fork. That particular cat is out of the bag, however, and we have a score of implementations. From all apparent discussion here, there is no particular urge for the writers to get together to reduce the implementations. So we have 20 document formats already. And not all the implementers are concerned with backward compatibility. The same can be said of html and CSS. CSS configures how the html is rendered. So CMD could configure the way MD is rendered. So steal a page from html/css: config can be inband or it can included from an external file. Respectfully, Sherwood of Sherwood's Forests Sherwood Botsford Sherwood's Forests -- http://Sherwoods-Forests.com 780-848-2548 5004</pre> Sherwood Botsford 2013-04-19T21:00:51 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4691 <pre>* Sherwood Botsford &lt;sgbotsford&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; [2013-04-19 16:05]: Because Markdown is a document format, not a Unix command. Exactly. Every time you make a processor handle a Markdown document differently from how a different Markdown processor handles it, even just by changing an option in some hypothetical config file, you are forking Markdown. Consider then what happens if after writing 300 Markdown documents using one setting for some option, you decide that you prefer to use another setting. Now you have 300 broken Markdown documents. Not to mention, you can’t exchange Markdown documents with anyone else very well, because their documents look wrong under your configuration and your documents wrong under theirs. If you did want to be able to configure how a Markdown document gets processed, then the only reasonable place to keep that configuration would be in-band, within the document itself, so that the document will remain self-describing; rather than out of band somewhere it can become separate</pre> Aristotle Pagaltzis 2013-04-19T19:29:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4690 <pre>Why? Most reasonably powerful unix commands have some combination of command line or startup files to control behavior. At the present stage when someone wants something new, they have to fork their least unfavorite version, and tweak it to their purpose. Respectfully, Sherwood of Sherwood's Forests Sherwood Botsford Sherwood's Forests -- http://Sherwoods-Forests.com 780-848-2548 50042 Range Rd 31 Warburg, Alberta T0C 2T0 On 19 April 2013 05:25, Aristotle Pagaltzis &lt;pagaltzis&lt; at &gt;gmx.de&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Markdown-Discuss mailing list Markdown-Discuss&lt; at &gt;six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss </pre> Sherwood Botsford 2013-04-19T14:03:23 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4689 <pre>* Sherwood Botsford &lt;sgbotsford&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; [2013-04-18 17:20]: That would be bad for Markdown. </pre> Aristotle Pagaltzis 2013-04-19T11:25:46 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4688 <pre>There is a babel markdown web site that you can see how various dialects convert markup. The only html I use in on my website now is the &lt;div&gt; tag, usually with a class or ID. This controls my layout. MMD has sufficient table handling for my purposes. So for me, my MD looks like this: # This is a title ## And a subtitle underneath it. This is intoductory text on my page &lt;DIV class=picr4&gt;  caption to the image above, explaining it's relevance to the main text *** &lt;/div&gt; Class picr4 is styled to float right, and be 40% of the width of the container. I have a half dozen classes. Caption text is styled with .picr4 p { so that it is visually distinct from the body text So far I've not found much else that I need. **** I don't think you want to make changes insitu. However take a look at stackexchange.com They use a subset of MD as their site markup language for user replies, and they compose MD in one window and display it in another. It's a good wa</pre> Sherwood Botsford 2013-04-18T16:18:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4687 <pre>Since folks with considerably more influence than myself have tried (and failed?) to "standardise" markdown: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/10/the-future-of-markdown.html I think I need to rethink my approach of using Pagedown. https://code.google.com/p/pagedown/ Are there editors that basically expand markdown input into HTML in the textarea I wonder? The big saving for Markdown for me is just auto-wrapping paragraphs. Nice bullet point making. Nicer link making actions, e.g. * foo &lt;CR&gt; becomes &lt;li&gt;foo&lt;/li&gt; after returning the carriage return. Or perhaps asking people to highlight a region. Which in turns gets churned into HTML. Anyway, just a brain fart on how I can possibly get out of this mixing HTML &amp; Markdown quagmire. </pre> Kai Hendry 2013-04-18T15:52:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4686 <pre>Not quite. Several versions of MD allow you to insert html with a flag, typically 'markdown=1' in the tag to switch. This is a pain in tables, as it must be inserted in every &lt;td&gt; tag. I have hacked my version of MD so that &lt;div&gt; is an ecception, as I use CSS liquid layouts in my markdown. If you use tables for layout (often, when developing HTML for mobile devices) you may want to hack the TD tag the same way. (I wish that this was a toggle that could be set in a .mmdrc file. There are a lot of things that I wish I could set in an .mmdrc file.) At least two version of markdown (Markdown and MultiMarkdown modules from CPAN) have the Bug/Feature that tags are only recognized if they are in lower case. So with that &lt;TABLE&gt; &lt;TR&gt;&lt;TD&gt; *This Cell has Emphasized Text*&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt; &lt;/table&gt; Interprets MD inside the html markup. Closing tags can be either case. The problem with this is that the uppercase tags are treated as paragraphs, and wrapped with &lt;p&gt; tags. This makes you fail validation tests, but s</pre> Sherwood Botsford 2013-04-18T15:16:07 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4685 <pre> I don’t know about every implementation, but in general, you can use HTML within Markdown. You can’t use Markdown within HTML. In other words, if you want something to be treated as Markdown, don’t put it inside any HTML tags. </pre> Rob McBroom 2013-04-18T13:22:30 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4684 <pre>Hi guys, I wrote a markdown based Web editor thing for my sister: http://ws.dabase.com/ And she has trouble styling blocks of markdown. Since &lt;div markdown=1&gt;markdown here&lt;/div&gt; does not work on my Debian markdown binary. Is there a formal definition of markdown? Or some sort of conformance test? And certain markdown implementations I should be using, and certain ones I should be avoiding? Why doesn't markdown work within div blocks? Is there some technical reason? Out of interest, I would like to know why, since my expectation was to mix&amp;match markdown with HTML. Is there some other way I'm not thinking of, in order to style sections of markdown? Oh and is there something better that Pagedown? Because that also doesn't seem to grok &lt;div markdown=1&gt;markdown here&lt;/div&gt;. Many thanks! </pre> Kai Hendry 2013-04-18T10:38:11 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4683 <pre>This is the first release of PHP Markdown Lib. This package requires PHP version 4.3 or later and is designed to work with PSR-0 autoloading and, optionally, with Composer. You can download it from the PHP Markdown website: &lt;http://michelf.ca/projects/php-markdown/&gt; You can also read the official announcement here: &lt;http://michelf.ca/blog/2013/php-markdown-lib/&gt; Also note new versions of PHP Markdown 1.0.1q &amp; Extra 1.2.7 were just released too. They're now labeled as the "classic" version, and as previously mentioned on this list I will stop updating those next year, focusing in the Lib version. &lt;http://michelf.ca/projects/php-markdown/classic/&gt; Here is a list of the changes in Lib since the previous classic release (some of the changes are also included in the classic version, see the website for details): PHP Markdown Lib 1.3 (11 Apr 2013): *Plugin interface for Wordpress and other systems is no longer present in the Lib package. The classic package is still available if you need it: &lt;http://michel</pre> Michel Fortin 2013-04-11T19:59:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4682 <pre>Since you mentioned it, I should have mentioned that TextDown works with templates for the HTML output. Paul </pre> marbux 2013-03-19T23:21:48 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.text.markdown.general/4681 <pre>I normally use the Textdown extension for Google Chrome. &lt;https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/textdown/efalomlklhakojjbdfehfkgoicablooc?hl=en-US&gt;. Markdown editor in the left pane; the HTML rendered result in the right pane. The right pane updates in real time as the left pane is edited. Lots of other bells and whistles, including dragging a text file to a Chrome icon to open the file in Textdown. For bulk conversions I use Pandoc, which I script with Lua. &lt;http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/&gt;. Best regards, Paul </pre> marbux 2013-03-19T23:19:48 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.text.markdown.general