gmane.recreation.dance.tango.tango-l

Re: chatting during the cortinas

Niki Papapetrou — 2012-05-26T06:55:41

so true. I remember a personal experience here in melbounre. one of the
local dancers (male) who used to not waste a single
second of the music, had just come back from BsAs. we started the tanda and
at the end of the first song we let go and i mentioned somethin along the
lines of' its good to have you back in Melb'. As the music started up
again, i leaned forward. 'No, no', he said , as he pulled back , 'in BsAs
they dont start dancing straight away, they chat for a while...'. I
humoured him and we resumed dancig when he deemed it appropriate :) . I do
still dance with this person occasionally, but i havent been able to take
him seriously as a person or as a dancer ever since this incident.

On 26 May 2012 08:53, Huck Kennedy <tempehuck< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: chatting during the cortinas

Huck Kennedy — 2012-05-25T22:53:51

      Alas, here in the US, I fear you are right.  Often at festivals
I'll see a couple rudely continuing to obliviously chat away two
minutes into the song, and if you dare to challenge their rudeness by
either saying something or passing them, they give you this
condescending look that says, "Did you just start dancing yesterday
(as opposed to our a year ago, we're seasoned veterans!)?  Haven't you
ever been to Buenos Aires, we read somewhere that you are *supposed*
to recite your entire life history or decide the next presidential
election or discuss all the movies you've seen in the previous six
months before resuming the dance, or you're not a real tanguero."

Huck

Re: Buenos Aires - Milonga Codes

2012-05-23T18:04:28

So very perfect Sergio!!!!....such harsh  criticisms and comments on  the 
list about such a beautiful social, cultural custom.  If this  aggression is 
in your head, what must your dancing be like...the dancers in BA  are not 
machines that try to crank out as many dances as possible in one evening  or 
matinee...not only don't they start dancing as soon as the music starts, they 
 dance far fewer steps to each song, there is really far less movement than 
in  our US milongas...all this leads to LONGEVITY with out tire or injury.  
It  is a very valuable strategy deployed to enable dancers to dance all 
night.  
 
And a really good milonga has its own character and pulse and everyone  
through their sensitivity has the shared sense about when the floor is going to 
 start moving.  People who want more chat, pull themselves out of the dance 
 lanes so as not to interrupt.  And the chatting in my opinion is a bit  
humorous from a foreigner's point of view, usually following the lines of: 
Where  are you from

Re: chacarera skirts

2012-05-24T00:00:37

At the Argentine Association in LA the dj will play the first few bars and stop the music just to let everyone know to jump up and get ready then he starts to from the beginning. He plays it around 11:00...fun
David 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos< at >yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, May 23, 2012 9:06 am
Subject: [Tango-L] chacarera skirts
To: <tango-l< at >mit.edu>

Hi Tiffo,

At the weekly milonga that we host, the chacarera is played after the second milonga tanda of the evening, and we just prefer to play one chacarera.  So the flow is

milonga tanda
cortina
chacarera
cortina

It works out well, and people have learned to expect it.   Sometimes the DJ will announce it during the cortina, but people also have fun rushing up onto the floor and joining in when they hear the music.  It's all very light-hearted.  It fits in with the relaxed atmosphere of our milonga, which is free and takes place at a bar.  The other weekly milonga, which is a lit

chatting during the cortinas

Tango 22 — 2012-05-25T06:40:28

Sergio comments............The conversation we are discussing is very brief, a 
few seconds, the duration depends on when the couple in front of you 
starts moving, it does (it should) not disrupt the ronda at all.

This is why one wonders if this pleasant custom has become a boorish affectation, with at least a minute of loud conversation before every song where one can't hear a thing, let alone absorb and consider the upcoming song (often given as a reason).  never saw Tete do it; he loved the dance too much.
John

New in the appstore: Tango app "Tango Curso"

Ricardo "El holandés" — 2012-05-25T05:32:52

We like to inform you that in the appstore we uploaded a new tango 
app "Tango curso" version 1.1 (fixed in-app purchases)
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tango-curso/id500129550?l=de&ls=1&mt=8
the app is free i hope you like it!


Ricardo



Discription app:

Free app with a presentation of tango classes: Tango de Salón, Tango 
de Fantasía, Milonga and Vals

The free app contains:
oA survey of the course material
oDances showing the content of every class
oOne chapter of every class (the others may be purchased)
oTexts for every class
oText and video on Buenos Aires
oRicardo´s CV
oVideo interview with Ricardo

All other chapters of the respective classes may be individually 
purchased as downloads.

The lessons
oare well-structured.
ocontain all basics, but also sequences for very advanced dancers.
oexplain the most important sequences as well as how to dance in the 
salón, posture, musicality, adornos etc.
oare well-balanced. Rotraut demonstrates and explains the womens´ 
steps at equal le

milonga chatting

2012-05-24T02:49:27

So very perfect Sergio!!!!....such harsh  criticisms and comments on 
the list about such a beautiful social, cultural custom.  If this 
aggression is in your head, what must your dancing be like...the 
dancers in BA are not machines that try to crank out as many dances as 
possible in one evening or matinee...not only don't they start dancing 
as soon as the music starts, they dance far fewer steps to each song, 
there is really far less movement than in our US milongas...all this 
leads to LONGEVITY with out tire or injury.  It is a very valuable 
strategy deployed to enable dancers to dance all night.

And a really good milonga has its own character and pulse and everyone 
through their sensitivity has the shared sense about when the floor is 
going to start moving.  People who want more chat, pull themselves out 
of the dance lanes so as not to interrupt.  And the chatting in my 
opinion is a bit humorous from a foreigner's point of view, usually 
following the lines of: Where are you from, when did you

chatting during the cortinas

2012-05-24T02:44:18

One more thing about the chat custom....it is a way to convey charm,to 
amuse, entertain, make yourself indelible in the memory of the partner. 
   Portenos have a wonderful sense of humor and if you can play any sort 
of word trick, pun or even sing songy answer to the question and answer 
period you will be remembered forever.  Reminder: this is fun, social 
interaction, not life and death black belt tango dancing.  Charm....a 
word mostly lost in our parlance and behavior...good to retrieve, 
revive and practice....a good charm offensive goes a long way...to 
providing enjoyment and memorability.  sherrie

AUTO: John Sing/San Jose/IBM is speaking at IBM Conference in Berlin, returning on 5/26/12 (returning 05/26/2012)

John Sing — 2012-05-23T22:04:12


I am out of the office until 05/26/2012.

I will traveling on IBM business returning on 5/26/12.

My manager is:  Pete Potosky/Rochester/IBM,  phone:1-720-396-3347


Note: This is an automated response to your message  "Tango-L Digest, Vol
74, Issue 7" sent on 05/23/2012 10:20:15.

This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

Re: chacarera skirts

Trini y Sean (PATangoS — 2012-05-23T16:06:14

Hi Tiffo,

At the weekly milonga that we host, the chacarera is played after the second milonga tanda of the evening, and we just prefer to play one chacarera.  So the flow is

milonga tanda
cortina
chacarera
cortina

It works out well, and people have learned to expect it.   Sometimes the DJ will announce it during the cortina, but people also have fun rushing up onto the floor and joining in when they hear the music.  It's all very light-hearted.  It fits in with the relaxed atmosphere of our milonga, which is free and takes place at a bar.  The other weekly milonga, which is a little more formal, does their chararera at the very end, after La Cumparsita.  It's a fun way to end the evening and start the clean-up process.

Argentine teachers like it when a tango community is interested enough in their culture that they learn the chacarera.  There's interest in learning more folkloric dances, as well.  

Part of the appeal of the chacarera is the flirtiness of it, which was emphasized to us when the

flor de tango a great radio show on the web

gaby luna — 2012-05-22T16:38:48

http://www.radiocasbah.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=192&Itemid=47

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

Alexis Cousein — 2012-05-22T14:44:15

 > the cortina is for clearing the floor not for dancing
 > that's why it's not tango usually rock n roll.
They weren't even _on_ the floor; I'd advise not to
jump to conclusions without reading carefully.

And there are actually BsAs  milongas --certainly barrio
ones for people who're there with friends and family-- where
people will happily dance part of the cortinas. I was told
that was unchanged two weeks ago, so unless the sky suddenly
caved in there's a lot of overgeneralisation in that comment.

Not _everything_ in BsAs is one of the staunchest of El Beso milongas
(or wherever it may have moved to recently, depending on the
former El Beso milonga you pick).

To "zutalors": No, that's not the atmosphere the codigas are meant
to foster. Which doesn't mean I agree with your general statements;
it's not just because some codigas are old and from BsAs that they
may not be useful outside of BsAs and now.

Some are, some aren't, and some are actually more or less
neogtiated by the dancers and it's futile to

Re: chacarera skirts

Alberto Gesualdi — 2012-05-21T14:12:46

well... how is chacarera related to tango ...
 
 
not in the way that it could be considered. We have to remember, what was happening with tango dance, in Buenos Aires , on the 60`s and 70`s . It was gone, except for a few places , where milongueros and milongueras gathered to have some dancing.
 
as a school of dance, there were many so called "Peñas" , places where people take lessons to dance, or gathered for a social encounter. Buenos Aires used to receive, and still does, many people from the provinces.
 
so , the santiagueños, from the province of Santiago del Estero, has their "Peñas", the tucumanos from Tucuman, their Peñas, etc..
 
On the early 80`s , since the tango was having some comeback, after Tango argentino at Le trottoir de Pairs, and later the boom of Tango Argentino on Broadway, some of this Peñas of folklore, introduce some tango music.
 
Also some pupils of folklore like Carlos Rivarola, and other young persons -like "Los Ocampo , he is a formerly dancer of El Chucaro and Norm

Re: Chacarera

Alberto Gesualdi — 2012-05-21T13:56:19

yes , a beautiful chacarera, really.
 
argentine zamba, is with "Z"like Zulu , samba with"s" is the brasilian dance .
 
argentine zamba, an icon , sung by "Los chalchaleros" zamba de mi esperanza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I_nZ7JPtU
 
the greatest zamba dancer of ARgentina, El chucaro, with Norma Viola , his counterpart.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMDsflpl-Kc&feature=related
 
--.
brasilian samba , as danced on carnival parades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4a-qbFMAAk&feature=related
 
 
warm re


________________________________
De: robin tara <robinctara< at >gmail.com>
Para: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990< at >hotmail.com> 
CC: Tango-L List <tango-l< at >mit.edu> 
Enviado: domingo, 20 de mayo de 2012 12:35
Asunto: Re: [Tango-L] Chacarera

A beautiful chacarera -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmGJ6u6lws

and in another related video, a samba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-33DO-jy-34&feature=relmfu

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Sergio Vandekier <
sergiovandekier990< at >hotmail.com> wrote:

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

2012-05-22T00:34:14

Ah .. would that it were only 30 seconds...
My wife's friend, while in BA, took the trouble to time this phenomenon 
- and it was 1m20s before the last couple stopped talking and used the 
dance floor to actually dance.

Locally, we have a number of exponents of the custom, and often they 
find it necessary to talk beyond a minute while dancers negotiate the 
resultant chicane.. Far from making any effort to be aware of the 
inconvenience they cause, an air of studied indifference is de rigeur. 
It adds to the authenticity, it seems. On one occasion I saw  this 
carried to the extreme, by a particularly staunch adherent spending the 
entire track, hands in pockets, engaged in conversation.

It would be nice to see adherence to a custom of using a little common 
sense.

Roger Edgecombe
Melbourne, Australia.

ATTENZION: Florence/Italy: 'Tango with a View!' STARTSLATER

2012-05-22T09:24:02

We are really unhappy to inform You, that the city of Florence has postponed the beginning of the 'Tango with a View!'
at the Florentine cathedral!

un abrazo
Patricia Muller

Buenos Aires - Milonga Codes

Sergio Vandekier — 2012-05-22T06:07:24

Every code has an important reason to exist, some times more than one; that reason may only exist in Argentina and in this case the code is not understood or necessary abroad .  If you are a lady who comes to the milonga alone, you have to be perceived as unattached for  men to ask you to dance.  You show this condition by entering the milonga alone or in company of other women, greeting briefly some friends, men and ladies; a kiss on the cheek is no problem. You sit alone or in company of other ladies. You do not talk to a particular man. You accept the dance with cabeceo and stand up waiting for the man to come close to your table or walk towards him and meet halfway. When a tango ends and while you wait for the next one to start, this is the only chance you have to chat with that partic
 ular man. The conversation could be an invitation to a cup of coffee after the dance or about the weather.  In case of a date, both the man and the woman wish to keep the "unattached condit!
 ion" (for the time being) an

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

Sergey Kazachenko — 2012-05-22T03:51:52

5. The song starts, about half of the couples start dancing, the other
half is still chatting. Navigation is (usually) not an issue, but
hearing the music over the voices is.

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

Lois Donnay — 2012-05-22T02:28:54

Great subject.  A few other things I note:
Milongas are at different times here - not starting at 11PM!  They are also
shorter.  When I DJ, I choose 3 song tandas, because 4 is too much for all
but the best dancers, and also makes it impossible to dance with lots
of people in 3 or 4 hours.

All these BA codigos should be introduced when the community is ready for
it, not be forced on people.  After all, this should be enjoyable! Being
thrown into a new cultural milieu can be exciting, or miserable when nobody
is comfortable.  After dancing tango worldwide for 16 years now, I believe
there is no milonga in the world like a Buenos Aires milonga nor will ever
be. That's why I go back every year.  And sit and commisserate with the
other US teachers and complain that there are no milongas anywhere else in
the world like a Buenos Aires milonga. :)

Lois
Minneapolis

chatting between songs, was: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

Robert Dodier — 2012-05-22T02:21:14

Shahrukh,

thanks for your interesting observations. It's always nice to hear
from people in different places.

My $0.02 about talking before the dance begins is based on my
experiences in North America, at regular milongas and festivals.
What I've seen is that festivals have bigger crowds and more
social energy, and that just makes people chatty. What I think I
see is that people are ardently communicating nonverbally while
the dance goes on, then when the song ends, they keep on
communicating -- they just switch to a verbal mode. Then it takes
a while for everybody to switch back to nonverbal mode.

At regular milongas, there typically just isn't the critical mass of
social energy to spark the conversation. Most people just go
back to dancing as soon as the music starts. But sometimes
people do get chatty, which, as a DJ, I take as a very good sign.

As to what people should do, it seems like "when in Rome" is
enough advice.

All the best,

Robert Dodier
Boulder, CO

Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

Tango 22 — 2012-05-22T00:42:45

On 22/05/2012, at 2:25 AM, tango-l-request< at >mit.edu wrote:

From: Shahrukh Merchant <shahrukh< at >shahrukhmerchant.com>

As always, thoughtful and considered comments from Shahrukh.  A few comments:

2. Use of Tandas and Cortinas.
For those who are old enough to remember the '60's (ahem), live dance music, other than "pub rock", at least in Aus., was always played in brackets (tandas), usually of three songs, with a cortina at the end of each bracket.  The tanda tradition is quite natural for us, though I have found that studio ballroom parties seem to have foregone the tradition.  it was revived by Tango and Latin.

3. Table seating.
We much prefer table seating, for the sociability, though we tend to set tables of 6, rather than the smaller settings often seen in Buenos Aires.  Neither do we escort people to tables or separate singles and couples.  People tend to sit in groups, with friends.

4. Occasional tandas of other dances.
Agree that occasional other dance music can lighten the night.  we tend to select