gmane.os.netbsd.ports.vax

Anyone running -current?

Martin Husemann — 2013-05-24T22:56:47

Looks like all shared binaries are broken in -current for me (problem seems
to be libc.so, not ld.elf_so). Anyone else seeing this?

Martin

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Re: installboot is broken

Rhialto — 2013-04-18T19:07:21

Further permutations:

I managed (with trouble!) to get the boot.ram.gz onto my 3100 that has 32 MB of
RAM.
Alas, if I boot it from my old boot blocks (1.11 Sat Jun  5 2004), I get
(10-finger copy)
 
Press '?' for help
1308760/
 85 RESTART SYS
 84 FAIL

 83 BOOT SYS
-DKB0

Gzipped or not does not matter.

It works on the simh-3600, even with less memory.
It uses the boot loader that I installed previously from the iso image, but
that also claims to be version 1.11.

-Olaf.

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Re: installboot is broken

Johnny Billquist — 2013-04-11T19:27:53

It's a known problem. Sorry for not mentioning it. The console subsystem 
in simh don't work like the real machine. However, I have rewritten the 
console subsystem for NetBSD on the 86x0, so my local copy is working 
right, since it uses the console subsystem in a different way, in which 
simh works right.

Johnny

RE: installboot is broken

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm — 2013-04-11T19:26:54

There are issues in the simh VAX8600 console interface.  Try the VAX780.  The 8600 issues are pretty complicated and not at the top of the queue.  The simulator works fine when booting VMS.

- Mark

Re: installboot is broken

Rhialto — 2013-04-11T19:22:16

By the way, I am currently trying the simh vax8600 from the git
repository. I use the branch with the fixed VMB.EXE so that it boots the
install cd (remotes/origin/VAX-11-BootBlock-Fixup).

If I boot it off the NetBSD-6.1RC2.iso install cd, using the patched
VMB.EXE, it starts the boot loader, loads and decompresses the kernel
(which takes ages), and then prints only a C and then freezes. I suppose
it is the first character of the kernel output, trying to say "Copyright
blah Regents of blah".

The CPU is running in some big loop somewhere, one can see that if you
turn on cpu history, or steps through the code using the STEP command
from simh.

Could be a bug in either simh or NetBSD of course.

-Olaf.

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Martin Husemann — 2013-04-09T18:56:35

Oh - I am running 3.9.0, so this would explain it.

Martin

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RE: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal (was: installboot is broken)

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm — 2013-04-09T16:49:16

A reasonable goal.


It probably isn't a missamping.  It may be that we're not detecting the idle state of the simulated OS.

What simh version?
What host OS and version?
What simulated OS and version?

- Mark

RE: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm — 2013-04-09T17:15:26

It also depends on the simh version.  I had suggested the IPL 1 way back in 2011, but the code to explicitly support that did not make it into the last official simh release (v3.9).  The current code at https://github.com/simh/simh/archive/master.zip has had the NetBSD/OpenBSD IPL1 idle detection for about a year.

Johnny's 2 8600's are clearly running the newer code since the 8600 is a new simulator, but I have no idea what other folks are running....

- Mark

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Paul Koning — 2013-04-09T17:00:42

On Apr 9, 2013, at 12:53 PM, Martin Husemann wrote:


Good to know.  My results were from V6.0-RC1 if I remember right.

paul

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Johnny Billquist — 2013-04-09T16:55:14

Good point. It's been suggested in the past to use something like ipl 1 
for such information, but I don't know if it ever got done.

I have not checked if current simh detects NetBSD idle or not. I can 
tell that it would appear it does on my system at home, as my machine is 
sitting mostly idle even though I'm running two VAX-8600 instances right 
now. But that is rather anecdotal (and one of those instances are 
running VMS, and the other 6.99).

Johnny
Johnny

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Martin Husemann — 2013-04-09T16:53:57


AFAICT this has been fixed, so it should be detected (we switch to IPL 1
on entry to the idle loop):

/*
 * This allows SIMH to recognize the kernel wants to sleep.
 */
static inline void
cpu_idle(void)
{
        int ipl = mfpr(PR_IPL);
        mtpr(1, PR_IPL);
        mtpr(ipl, PR_IPL);
}


And yes, I had idle detection set to "netbsd".

Martin

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal (was: installboot is broken)

Mouse — 2013-04-09T16:53:56

Quite likely.  If the real machine's clock is also ticking at 100Hz,
then simh will wake up every tick.  If - as is common - the statclock
is driven off the hardclock, simh will tyhen be runnable every time the
statclock samples, even if it just executes a few instructions and goes
back to sleep immediately.  I've seen fairly high false load of that
sort without perceptibly impaired interactive feel often enough.  (Not
with simh, but with other things that wake up every clock tick, but
don't stay awake for long.)

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Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Paul Koning — 2013-04-09T16:50:34

On Apr 9, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


SIMH VAX?  That doesn't work for current NetBSD -- the "NetBSD" idle setting is for an older release, assuming it ever worked which I don't know.  I've looked at it to see how to fix that -- it would be rather hard.  Probably the best way is to change the kernel to tell simh explicitly, somewhat like is done on the Xen hosted version.  Given the way the NetBSD scheduler is coded in V6, there is no reasonable way for simh to detect "idle".

paul

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal

Johnny Billquist — 2013-04-09T16:37:01

Did you tell simh to idle based on NetBSD idle pattern?

Johnny

Re: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal (was: installboot is broken)

Martin Husemann — 2013-04-09T16:34:33


Heh - my notebook runs warm whenever simh sits idle at the (guest OS)
console prompt. I want it to run cooler.


It might just happen to not work well with NetBSD cpu stats sampling, or
there might be a bug - I haven't investigated more closely. top shows
one cpu 100% busy, but that may be a missampling.

Anyway, I just wondered why it did not use blocking io and threads, and you
answered that - looking forward to newer versions.

Martin

RE: disklabel MAXPARTITIONS reversal (was: installboot is broken)

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm — 2013-04-09T16:02:31

Hi Martin,

I realized I never responded to the above P.P.S....

I'm not 100% sure what you want here.  

Currently simh idles the simulator (i.e. sleeps) when the simulated OS is in its own idle loop.  The simulated OS won't be exiting that idle loop until some external event happens (i.e. data arrives from the outside, or a clock tick occurs).  Simh sleeps for the amount of time necessary to satisfy the events which it can predict.  The predictable event it knows about is the simulated clock tick, so the time until the next simulated clock tick is the sleep time.  When a simulated clock tick happens, other potential sources of external events are polled to determine if data has arrived.  These include console and/or other simulated multiplexer and network input.  So, the console and any other configured multiplexer devices will be polled 100 times a second.  

The above describes the behavior of all of the released versions of simh (V3.9 and earlier).

I wouldn't quite call this a 'busy poll of stdin', bu

Re: Building current

Johnny Billquist — 2013-04-07T22:50:41

MACRO-32:

                                      0000     1         .TITLE  TEST
                                      0000     2
                                  00000000     3         .PSECT  TEST
                                      0000     4
   00000000 FFFFFFFF 8F   FC AD   79  0000     5         ASHQ 
-4(FP),#-1,-12(fp)
                          F4 AD       000C
                                      000E     6
                                      000E     7         .END


However, I'm pretty sure that unless I say otherwise, values are 32-bit 
unsigned in MACRO-32, so I'm not sure how this helps.

Hmm, it might be that gas also explicitly have that immediate values are 
unsigned 32 bit, in which case I guess I should blame gcc after all, if 
it assumes that a "-1" should be sign extended to 64 bits...

Johnny