http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3300 <pre> If you use MCLIDE as your IDE on Mac, you may not need to have an IDE on Windows, as you can target your Lisp implementation running on Windows from the comfort of your Mac: http://mclide.com </pre> Terje Norderhaug 2012-04-12T16:54:24 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3299 <pre> On Apr 11, 2012, at 7:02 AM, Pascal Costanza wrote: Looks to me as if RMCL IS depreciated already. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate all that has been done to keep it alive for all these years. Thank you all. I think it is time to move on an focus the energy on CCL which does work quite well for most things. The one thing I am still not super happy about it the IDE on Windows. I think that could use some work. Perhaps that would be a good place for all this newfound energy once we let go of RMCL. (R)MCL was great. The few who still need it should be able to make things work with virtualization. Let see it ride into the sunset with some dignity. Goodbye old friend! Alex Prof. Alexander Repenning University of Colorado Computer Science Department Boulder, CO 80309-430 vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Alexander Repenning 2012-04-12T06:39:51 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3298 <pre> On 11 Apr 2012, at 23:46, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: I don't have specific applications on RMCL. I'm only trying to make sure that Closer to MOP runs on as many CL implementations as possible. Pascal -- Pascal Costanza The views expressed in this email are my own, and not those of my employer. _______________________________________________ Info-mcl mailing list Info-mcl-7+gK9HgA2O9Wk0Htik3J/w&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://digitool.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl_digitool.com </pre> Pascal Costanza 2012-04-12T05:58:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3297 <pre> Pascal Costanza &lt;pc-99OXBJU6cIpeoWH0uzbU5w&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org&gt; writes: I don't think there's a point to "upgrade" RMCL, that having been done already with CCL. That doesn't prevent us to use it in virtual machines, if we may. Do you have specific applications running on RMCL? peter &lt;p2.edoc-gM/Ye1E23mwN+BqQ9rBEUg&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org&gt; writes: Well, we're speaking of source code, what's more, written in lisp. (Ie. with a nice OO layer above the Mac Toolbox). Harder by the day. Eventually a solution. But I still haven't had all the expected success with virtual machines. There are still often problems with the hardware and applications using it. (People virtualize the processor and RAM, ok, but they forget to virtualize the hardware too). That would have to be done to each MCL application. And perhaps it has been done, or at least for the applications that were deemed interesting. So here is my question: Is there a lot of left-behind applications? I can imagine that a few of them were ke</pre> Pascal J. Bourguignon 2012-04-11T21:46:57 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3296 <pre> On 11 Apr 2012, at 17:59, Faré wrote: I have submitted bug reports, and provided descriptions of my setup (I think, actually, more than once). Have you entered them in the test suite for ASDF? (Do you have a test suite for ASDF?) I find it hard to believe they don't show up on your side if you continue testing that setup. (The bugs occur in SBCL, Clozure and LispWorks, for example…) Pascal -- Pascal Costanza The views expressed in this email are my own, and not those of my employer. _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Pascal Costanza 2012-04-11T16:08:31 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3295 <pre>Pascal, probably for the reasons you allude to, I've always tended to find ASDF a bit of a struggle. But I've not yet attuned myself fully to the opensource plug&amp;play software culture. Re. RMCL (which from me had moved on to MCL6), I think the writing was on the wall in many dimensions from way back. Carbon's obviously of a bygone era, now snuffed out by Apple (Lion, Rosetta etc). I just had a struggle with trying to get Snow Leopard Server (SLS) running through VMWare Fusion on a Lion Mac Mini Server, and failed. This with a view to bridging a port of a MCL app to the next viable lisp. I failed. This was not helped by the pathetic documentation for Fusion (which is PC/Wintel orientated) and Apple, who seem to have done nothing to help us do this. They have relaxed some licensing rules, but in so many ways have either deliberately or mindlessly made things bloody awkward. In this area I think we're climbing over years of Apple's efforts to prevent any use of MacOS X on non Apple hardware.</pre> peter 2012-04-11T15:13:59 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3294 <pre>Clozure doesn't have plans to do more work on RMCL. If someone wanted to hire to do some work on it we'd be happy to speak with them, but it's not clear that there's anything helpful to do. The fact is that RMCL (and MCL) run on PowerPC and use Carbon, and both those technologies have been deprecated. It should be possible to reimplement the highest level portions of the MCL Macintosh interface in CCL ---- things like MAKE-WINDOW and MAKE-MENU-ITEM. But this would still be a long way from creating compatibility with existing MCL source code. On Apr 11, 2012, at 9:02 AM, Pascal Costanza wrote: _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Andrew Shalit 2012-04-11T14:40:18 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3293 <pre>Hi, I'd like to get an idea what the current plans for RMCL are, if any. Since the switch to OS X 10.7, there is no default support for old PowerPC applications on OS X anymore, so RMCL doesn't work anymore, at least not without a major effort. Are there any plans to find a remedy for this situation? Or will RMCL effectively become deprecated? I'm asking for the following reasons: When ASDF was changed from 1.x to 2.x, this caused some problems for RMCL, which I eventually resolved by using Common Lisp's logical pathnames for the systems I maintain (primarily Closer to MOP and ContextL). However, the current maintainers of ASDF have an unjustified very low regard for logical pathnames, which causes a lot of pain - basically, whenever a new version of a Common Lisp implementation comes bundled with a new ASDF version, I have to deal with bugs in ASDF that in one way or the other break my setup with logical pathnames. Since my time is limited and is better served on things other than producing bug reports f</pre> Pascal Costanza 2012-04-11T13:02:18 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3292 <pre>I need help with enabling/disabling the display of intermediate steps within MCL's debugger. Any pointers would be much appreciated. _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> peter 2012-03-26T14:55:23 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3291 <pre>Apologies for the multiple postings. PAPER SUBMISSION DEADLINE EXTENDED European Lisp Symposium 2012, Zadar, Croatia, April 30th - May 1st, 2012 http://european-lisp-symposium.org The purpose of the European Lisp Symposium is to provide a forum for the discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, implementation and application of any of the Lisp and Lisp-inspired dialects, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, Clojure, ACL2, ECMAScript, Racket, SKILL, and so on. We encourage everyone interested in Lisp to participate. The main theme of the 2012 European Lisp Conference is "Interoperability: Systems, Libraries, Workflows". Lisp based and functional-languages based systems have grown a variety of solutions to become more and more integrated with the wider world of Information and Communication Technologies in current use. There are several dimensions to the scope of the solutions proposed, ranging from "embedding" of interpreters in C-based syste</pre> Marco Antoniotti 2012-02-01T13:15:42 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3290 <pre>Apologies for the multiple postings... =========================================================================== European Lisp Symposium 2012, Zadar, Croatia, April 30th - May 1st, 2012 http://european-lisp-symposium.org The purpose of the European Lisp Symposium is to provide a forum for the discussion and dissemination of all aspects of design, implementation and application of any of the Lisp and Lisp-inspired dialects, including Common Lisp, Scheme, Emacs Lisp, AutoLisp, ISLISP, Dylan, Clojure, ACL2, ECMAScript, Racket, SKILL, and so on. We encourage everyone interested in Lisp to participate. The main theme of the 2012 European Lisp Conference is "Interoperabilty: Systems, Libraries, Workflows". Lisp based and functional-languages based systems have grown a variety of solutions to become more and more integrated with the wider world of Information and Communication Technologies in current use. There are several dimensions to the scope of the solutions proposed, ranging from "embedding" of inter</pre> Marco Antoniotti 2012-01-23T11:50:10 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3289 <pre>At 4:33 PM -0800 1/14/12, Benjamin Perrault wrote:&gt; While it's absolutely the complete, dial-to-11 antithesis of "supported", SL can be convinced run quite well on the new minis, at least the ones with the intel integrated graphics (the low end one and the server). I'm happily running SL server on a quad-core i7 (not for MCL, but to be a server) with great success. I suspect it may well work on the mid-grade mini with the better video too, but that's a little more of a stretch since SL never supported the exact video chip that mode has, just others in the family. Not sure if anyone has proven what happens on that machine one way or another. Getting there is nontrivial. You need both a SL-supported thunderbolt macbook pro and a copy of Lion. The basic strategy is to - first, completely update the macbook pro with a copy of 10.6.8 that has all software updates *including* the separate thunderbolt s/w updates. - 2nd, duplicate that OS/drive onto the mini over firewire using something like SuperD</pre> John Wroclawski 2012-01-15T20:27:19 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3288 <pre>Many thanks all. I got the impression (some from Apple store) that the newest Mac Minis (some at least) had new firmware that might (they said would) prevent back-grading to Snow Leopard. The Mac Minis are Core i5 and i7 CPU while the Mac Pro is Xeon Nehalem or Westmere and so might be a different matter. Running a quad-core i7 with one 2GHz thread used by MCL under Rosetta and VMWare Fusion could make a port to CCL on 8 parallel threads tempting. But for now I just need to run some MCL code as is on a Mac Mini. And a trial run with a 2.7GHz dual-core i7 with VMWare and SL might prove the viability. Anyone done or know if this has been done (and run MCL) already? At 8:32 PM -0500 12/1/14, Andrew Shalit wrote: _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> peter 2012-01-15T19:46:25 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3287 <pre>Andrew is right. FYI: I have successfully installed MCL on a VirtualBox VM running Snow Leopard, and the VM runs inside Lion on my newly purchased Mac Pro (Quad-Coe Intel Xeon). It seems MCL runs fine. Hongbin On Jan 14, 2012, at 7:32 PM, Andrew Shalit wrote: _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Hongbin Wang 2012-01-15T15:34:06 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3286 <pre>I don't know about downgrading, but it is definitely possible to run Snow Leopard inside a VMWare Fusion virtual machine running on Lion. That Snow Leopard can then run Rosetta, and presumably MCL. Depending on the version of Fusion you have, you may or may not need to trick it into thinking that you have Snow Leopard (or Lion?) Server. That's easily done, though. Apparently all you need to do is create a file with a certain name in a certain location. Google/Bing is your friend in finding the details. On Jan 14, 2012, at 5:32 PM, peter wrote: _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Andrew Shalit 2012-01-15T01:32:36 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3285 <pre>Any system released in the Snow Leopard era can be down graded ( All current iMac, Macbook Pro, Mac Pro system ). See: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3195589?start=0&amp;tstart=0 I've personally done this with the current iMac systems. Any system that was released post Lion ( such as the current 2011 Macbook Air and 2011 Mac Mini ( such as your core i5 ) ), can only run Lion or later, as Snow Leopard never supported them, and thus lacks the device profile to boot the system. cheers, -bp On Jan 14, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Laughing Water wrote: _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Benjamin Perrault 2012-01-15T00:33:19 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3284 <pre>This may apply to your question. Last summer I bought some refurbished iMacs for the sake of getting them with Snow Leopard. They came with Lion. After quite some effort, including considerable time with Apple's tech support, I was told by a more senior Apple tech support person that a Mac cannot be back-graded to a system earlier than the one it is shipped with. Maybe someone's got some way around that, but the answer I was given was stated as being definitive. Laughing Water On Jan 14, 2012, at 3:32 PM, peter wrote: _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Laughing Water 2012-01-15T00:11:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3283 <pre>Can MCL run on a current i5 Mac Mini that's been back-graded to Snow Leopard? The Apple Store folks are a little ambiguous about whether a backgrade from Lion to SL is possible after a recent firmware upgrade. Any insights on this would be appreciated asap. _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> peter 2012-01-14T22:32:22 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3282 <pre>Hi AM I BEING LOADED? Welcome to Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.7-store-r15140 (DarwinX8664)! ? (subtypep 'foo t) T T This seems wrong. Note that I want to define (defun is-type-specifier (x) (ignore-errors (subtytpep x t))) Cheers -- Marco Antoniotti P.S. The "AM I BEING LOADED?" is cute, but a bit annoying.... :) _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Marco Antoniotti 2012-01-08T13:55:04 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3282 <pre>Hi AM I BEING LOADED? Welcome to Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.7-store-r15140 (DarwinX8664)! ? (subtypep 'foo t) T T This seems wrong. Note that I want to define (defun is-type-specifier (x) (ignore-errors (subtytpep x t))) Cheers -- Marco Antoniotti P.S. The "AM I BEING LOADED?" is cute, but a bit annoying.... :) _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Marco Antoniotti 2012-01-08T13:55:04 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.mcl.general/3282 <pre>Hi AM I BEING LOADED? Welcome to Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.7-store-r15140 (DarwinX8664)! ? (subtypep 'foo t) T T This seems wrong. Note that I want to define (defun is-type-specifier (x) (ignore-errors (subtytpep x t))) Cheers -- Marco Antoniotti P.S. The "AM I BEING LOADED?" is cute, but a bit annoying.... :) _______________________________________________ info-mcl mailing list info-mcl-duOd456sFkNBDgjK7y7TUQ&lt; at &gt;public.gmane.org http://clozure.com/mailman/listinfo/info-mcl </pre> Marco Antoniotti 2012-01-08T13:55:04 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.lisp.mcl.general