gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user

Ray Henry

Pablo Valbuena — 2012-05-26T05:20:14

Hello to you all:

My name is Pablo Valbuena. Some years ago I followed the activity of
the EMC group. I even attended the 2004 annual meeting in Ann Arbor.
There I met many of the great contributors, among them Ray Henry. I
have tried to find his email on the list archives, but the two
addresses that I get seem to be inactive (rehenry-klgq0fPOUs+sTnJN9+BGXg< at >public.gmane.org and
rehenry-5XB1TlXWyi8< at >public.gmane.org). Does anybody his current email address?

Thank you very much and best regards. Congratulations for the great
advances that I have seen on the project, and my greetings to all the
friends that I met in Ann Arbor: Paul Corner, Mike Joyce, Steve
Stallings, Jon Elson, Matt Shaver, etc.

Pablo Valbuena, Madrid, Spain.

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Re: Commutating Reactor

gene heskett — 2012-05-26T02:43:14

On Friday, May 25, 2012 10:19:59 PM Jon Elson did opine:


Something I neglected to consider when I wrote the above story.


I think that is the more likely situation, although that would seem to 
require some sort of interphase linkage, possibly timer related to throw it 
that far off.  I didn't dl the link to the manual, figuring if there was 
proprietary stuff in the thing, it probably would have the piece we would 
like to study inside a blank box on the schematic.  I have had to deal with 
that on many occasions, even going so far as to carve the epoxy or baked on 
tar away to see what was in a couple of those 'bricks', only to find the 
part numbers had been carved off before it was encapsulated.  Not exactly 
helpful when the thing is 6 years old & they crawled under a rock 3 years 
back.

But as the one who has to fix the stuff, makers who do their stuff like 
that usually get added to my "we won't buy any more of that makers 
products" list.  Often, we found that with diligent searching now that we

Re: Commutating Reactor

Jon Elson — 2012-05-26T02:08:15

You may just need to up these capacitors.
Ugh, 226 is WAY high.  With 120 on each half of the 240, you should have
approximately 208 V to the generated phase.  if you have an equilateral 
triangle
with the bas 240 units wide, the height should be 207.8 units.  (sin 60 
degrees
* 240 = 207.8).  Or, measuring between all 3 lines should give equal 
voltages.
Yours is not equal, again.  Your 1 - 3 voltage is quite a bit too high.

Either increasing  the cap values or adjusting them to get better 
balance ought
to help.

Jon

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Re: Commutating Reactor

Jon Elson — 2012-05-26T02:00:11

Well, this is possible.  the generated phase has a much higher impedance 
than the supplied
single-phase mains.  If this IS the problem, a few big caps of the phase 
correction sort
across all the L-L terminals might absorb enough of this to keep the 
protection circuits
from tripping.  But, of course, the presumably modest Diesel generator 
would also have
a somewhat higher impedance, and the drive ran fine on that.  So, I'm 
still thinking this
is more likely to be a simple phase imbalance problem than a spike 
problem.  But,
without knowing what sort of input protection gear this system has, it 
is impossible
to know.  On the other hand, if the input module uses SCR phase-angle 
regulation,
then phase imbalances would cause a HUGE problem as they screw up the
commutation angles of the SCRs, and could easily overvolt the DC bus.

Jon

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Re: Commutating Reactor

gene heskett — 2012-05-25T20:34:04

On Friday, May 25, 2012 04:25:36 PM John Thornton did opine:


Post (or PM to me) a pic sharp enough to read control labels & I'll see 
what I can remember.  I had a piece of junk called a 2235 to contend with 
in 84 when I became the CE at WDTV.  Very badly distorted beam spot that 
tek would not replace the crt to fix, and it was well within warranty. I 
finally cut a P.O. for a replacement crt that was almost $850 dollars to 
fix it.  That was the end of my being impressed with tek products.  My 
motto has been "anything but tek" ever since.

Cheers, Gene

Re: Commutating Reactor

gene heskett — 2012-05-25T20:24:58

On Friday, May 25, 2012 04:16:35 PM John Thornton did opine:

Sounds like somebody wants to gouge because today, they have only meter 
readers and have to farm out the construction.  I've heard of 25k/mile 
before, but it was never done for the obvious reason.  The latter sounds 
like a variation of demand billing.  And that is an old old practice they 
don't mention in the fine print.  If you have 2 transmitters, it will cost 
quite a bit to test one into a dummy load while the other is on the air.  
Unforch, the commission demands the backup be tested and verified weekly.

But I did have to ask...

Cheers, Gene

Re: Commutating Reactor

andy pugh — 2012-05-25T19:59:27


This looks like the manual.
http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll/csfetch/59401543/PJU_0212_en.pdf?func=cslib.csFetch&nodeid=60683460&forcedownload=true

There is an interesting section about how to connect to various
earthing styles. Which might be very relevant to your situation and
the reactor.

Re: Commutating Reactor

Dave — 2012-05-25T19:51:11

Many 3 phase input VFDs will run if only two of the phases are connected 
- in other words they will run on single phase power.   Usually the 
control voltage comes off of only two of the phases.

I saw a web article a few months ago where a guy had connected a VFD to 
single phase and in order to fake out the VFD so it would function, he 
connected the third input leg to one of the other input legs via
a power capacitor (metal can - continuous duty, etc) .   I didn't save 
that link.

If you put a filter choke (line reactor) after the VFD it would smooth 
the power output substantially.   When I was with Siemens we had who did 
this and the standard recommendation was to oversize the VFD by 30-40%.
But this was for smaller motor applications back then - 3-5 hp etc.   
This was before cheap single phase input VFDs were available for 5-7.5 
hp motors.

Automation Direct has a 20 hp 230 volt input VFD for about $1100.   Add 
a line reactor for another $160 and give it a shot.    They have a 30 
day return pol

Re: Commutating Reactor

John Thornton — 2012-05-25T19:18:06

Ok, what I had been running was 4x60uf caps between 1 and 3 and 1x60uf 
cap between 2 and 3 (generated leg on 3 then) and that seemed to work 
the best.

at the phase converter
to ground 1 = 120v, 2 = 120v, 3 = 226v
phase to phase 1 + 2 = 244v, 2 + 3 = 248v, 1 + 3 = 262v

at the 380v taps on the transformer
to ground 1 = 205v, 2 = 205v, 3 = 324v
phase to phase 1 + 2 = 388v, 2 + 3 = 394v, 1 + 3 =

On 5/9/2012 7:59 AM, andy pugh wrote:

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Re: Commutating Reactor

John Thornton — 2012-05-25T19:17:54

Gene,

The scope is a Tektronix 2232 if you can shed any light on how to 
capture two waves with it I'm all ears.

Thanks
John

On 5/24/2012 9:17 PM, gene heskett wrote:

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Re: Commutating Reactor

John Thornton — 2012-05-25T19:17:28

Andy,

The infeed unit is a 6SN1145-1BA00-0BA0

If you can shed any light in that tunnel that would great

Thanks
John

On 5/25/2012 6:45 AM, andy pugh wrote:

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Re: Commutating Reactor

John Thornton — 2012-05-25T19:17:08

It's two miles away up on the highway. The cost would be enormous to get 
3 phase out here in the woods. Just guessing based on other information 
I've gathered about bringing 3 phase to a shop about 50k or so to bring 
3 phase to my shop.  Heck they wanted 15k to connect up my other brother 
John's shop and the 3 phase is hanging on the pole 50' from his shop. 
Plus they have a minimum monthly charge that would buy a phase perfect 
rather fast.

John

On 5/25/2012 8:13 AM, gene heskett wrote:

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Re: Custom Encoders

andy pugh — 2012-05-25T19:01:34


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/izs9EehSiBmY_omIxaSJBtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Central diameter is 46mm, there are 512 window/bar combinations, so
2048 counts per rev.

Re: Commutating Reactor

andy pugh — 2012-05-25T18:15:23



Indeed. And you would need to work voltage-mode too, I assume.

So, how about a 6' stack of 8i20s :-)

Re: Commutating Reactor

gene heskett — 2012-05-25T18:12:22

On Friday, May 25, 2012 01:02:05 PM Jon Elson did opine:


I thought of that too, Jon.  But I tried that once, many years ago, and 
found that the transformers blocked the higher frequency stuff I was 
interested in.  For this however I'd think it would be adequate as I don't 
think we are looking for megahertz plus response.  But with my history, its 
certainly something I would be looking for in the scope traces however they 
are obtained.

However, if the problem is related to the spikes on the line caused by slow 
recovery characteristics of the diodes in this kits high voltage DC supply, 
those spikes will be attenuated by the poor high frequency response of the 
transformers.  They won't look as if they are big enough to be a problem so 
most would ignore them.

At KXNE-TV, where I was the transmitter super for several years, we were 
plagued by 6 lines that rolled through the picture since the powerline rate 
was 60 hz, but the NTSC vertical sync was 59.94, we did try some large 
capacitors across the

Re: Commutating Reactor

Peter C. Wallace — 2012-05-25T17:57:01


With a inverter of any type, a post filter is likely needed so the mill infeed 
sees nice 3 phase sine waves rather than x KHz rectangular pulses waves with 
sinewave PWM modulation

(I notice even automationdirect has 3 phase line 
inductors)


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: Commutating Reactor

andy pugh — 2012-05-25T17:48:00


The Mesa cards can output a 3-phase PWM. Presumably a lot of the cost
of the PhasePerfect is the control software...
(I also suspect that they might have acetic switching to "dump voltage" too. )

Re: Commutating Reactor

Peter C. Wallace — 2012-05-25T17:39:04


Ahh its a standard kind of thing:

www.mtecorp.com/SineWave_Filter_4pg_Form1214A-2.pdf



Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: Commutating Reactor

Peter C. Wallace — 2012-05-25T17:33:19




I wonder if a VFD (with suitably tweaked parameters) and 3  inductors would 
do. I suspect VFDs have fairly low switching frequencies (say 4-10 KHz) so 
would need a fair amount of filtering

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: Commutating Reactor

andy pugh — 2012-05-25T17:19:39


They are doing rather more than a typical inverter drive does. They
create a smooth 3-phase waveform regardless of load.

Re: Commutating Reactor

Dave — 2012-05-25T17:00:09

For only generating 1 phase (the missing leg) they are charging some 
serious money for those inverters.

Dave

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