gmane.linux.debian.devel.debtags

Re: Bug#632930: debtags shows different packages whenextending/fine-graining a tag expression.

Enrico Zini — 2012-04-30T12:33:44

[...]
[...]

[That's an interesting question, which I think is a good spark for a
 little[1] game::* tag cleanup, so let's involve debtags-devel and
 debian-devel-games]

In theory, I would expect the same as you; however that behaviour is not
enforced, and game::rpg and game::rpg:rogue, as well as game::board,
game::board:chess, game::sport, and game::sport:racing, are all
considered completely different tags.

I can see two ways of bringging the theory in line with practice:

 1. adding a hint to the tagging interface to suggest people to add
    game::foo when the game::foo:bar tag is there;
 2. renaming the data without a hierarchy (i.e. game::rogue,
    game::chess, game::racing)

I recall a discussion some time ago with people saying that rogue-like
games weren't really RPG games, but they just shared a Tolkien/D&D
atmosphere with some RPG games. That is probably correct, and would hint
at a game::rpg:rogue -> game::rogue rename.

Wrt game::board:chess, should we just remove it and keep game::board
on

Re: Calendar management-related tags

Samuel Bronson — 2012-03-08T20:39:41

2012/2/28 Tanguy Ortolo <tanguy+debian< at >ortolo.eu>:


I don't think there was really any need to explain this, any more than
there is for giving applications of XML something more specific than
"works-with-format::xml". (Of course, it's still necessary, as with
any tag, that someone in a position to add the tag be convinced that
it is, or at least will be, applicable to enough packages to be worth
bothering with.)

Calendar management-related tags

Tanguy Ortolo — 2012-02-28T17:04:05

Hello,

I think it would be useful to define the following tags:
    works-with::calendar            calendar data
    works-with-format::icalendar    iCalendar (RFC 5545)
    protocol::webcal                WebCAL, that iCalender exposed by
                                    HTTP
    protocol::caldav                CalDAV (RFC 4791)

Indeed, I think the only related tag, use::timekeeping, is far from
being useful enough when searching for a software. For instance, a
common requirement would be to be able to import iCalendar files.
Someone using a remote calendar server would also want a CalDAV support,
etc.

By the way, the rationale for having protocol::webcal and
protocol::caldav instead of simply protocol::http is that these are two
HTTP-based protocols that are quite different, and often used for
distinct purposes.

Regards,

Re: A tag for video camera and microphone?

Michael Vogt — 2012-02-27T14:50:09

I like this! I added support for hardware::webcam and
hardware::digicam to the detection library now. If someone with a
videocamera can provide me with "udevadm info --export-db" output I'm
happy to try to add it as well.
 

To me it sounds like its useful to be able to distinguish between
output and input - but I assume in practise most of the time a system
will support both anyway. I don't know yet how this can be detected
though :) 

Cheers,
 Michael

Re: Bad link on debtags.alioth.debian.org?

Enrico Zini — 2012-02-26T10:38:19


Thanks! Fixed.


Ciao,

Enrico

Re: A tag for video camera and microphone?

Tanguy Ortolo — 2012-02-22T15:30:41

Enrico Zini, 2012-02-22 15:40+0100:

I think it would be useful to discriminate packages that use a sound
card to output audio, and packages that input audio. Totem plays audio,
while gnome-sound-recorder records audio (and can play it afterwise, but
this is kind of secondary).

To answer to possible objections about the existing sound::recording,
recording sound and using a microphone is not quite the same. Using a
microphone is necessary to record sound, but a microphone can be used to
grab sound and stream it without recording it at all.

Re: A tag for video camera and microphone?

Enrico Zini — 2012-02-22T14:40:06

[quoting in full because the original message did not reach the list due
 to list configuration; Tanguy's email now added to email whitelist]


You are right, I just noticed that the current hardware::camera is more
for things like gphoto which can interface with digital cameras and
download photos, and we don't have a tag for webcams.

OTOH, hardware::camera is currently used to tag both kamera and
gtkam, and webcamd and cheese. So we might be looking at splitting the
existing tag in two.

hardware::video is for graphic card drivers and utilities, so I agree
with you, it doesn't fit.

We could split hardware::camera in hardware::digicam (making it explicit
what it is for) and hardware::videocamera or, probably better,
hardware::webcam? hardware::videocamera looks more like something to
control expensive video cameras via Firewire connections for the Debian
Video Team than something for jabber video chats. That's yet another use
case that we currently miss, I'd say (I'm thinking all the tools to deal
with D

Translated::* tags [was: Re: Tags for region and translation status?]

Enrico Zini — 2012-02-14T13:17:09


This one is something that pops up every once in a while, but I haven't
found a good way to do it with tags.

These are the concerns that I see:

 - matching locales is more complicated than matching tags: if I have an
   it_CH locale, I very likely would want to get it_IT packages if no
   it_CH ones are available.

 - a lot of packages (like wget, for example) contain .mo files for all
   locales they support. Do you tag wget with 39 translated::* tags,
   with none, or with a useless "translated::lots"? All those options
   sound wrong to me.

I definitely like the idea of a feature in the package manager to show
available translations for the current locales, but I think that a
separate "Lang: <locale list>" control file header, with appropriate
matching code in package managers, possibly autogenerated with a
debhelper tool during package build, would be a more viable strategy.

For a package as simple as wget, such a header would look like this:

  Locale: ja sl et pt eu zh_CN zh_TW eo vi bg tr da sr

region::/iso3166:: tags [was: Re: Tags for region and translationstatus?]

Enrico Zini — 2012-02-14T13:03:29

[...]

I'd like the idea: culture is a hack and I'd be glad if it went away.
The iso15924 tag is an example of going in that direction.

Some caveats:
 - we need to be *very* careful to use common_name instead of name, from
   /usr/share/xml/iso-codes/iso_3166.xml, when generating tag
   descriptions.
 - we are talking 252 new tags here, most of which would have no
   packages at all. Should we just add them all, or should we just add a
   few of them, then add more as they are needed?
 - there are fine lines in tagging: a Han font should have one or more
   of the iso15924::han[ist] tags, but it probably shouldn't have
   iso3166::cn, iso3166::hk, iso3166::jp, iso3166::tw and so on: people
   can write with that script in any country, really. This may be clear
   once you explain it, but I expect it'll be a tricky thing for casual
   taggers.

Based on the previous points:
 - qviaggiatreno, tryton-modules-account-*, the belgian id card stuff,
   dtaus, totem-plugin-arte, get-iplayer are uncontroversial exa

Tags for region and translation status?

Michael Vogt — 2012-02-13T10:22:38

Hi,

when discussing about how to classify software better two ideas came
up and I would like to ask for you opinions about them.

One is to have a "region::" tag that would include the rfc3166
regions. The meaning would be something like "useful mainly in this
region". This could be e.g. a german tax application that is specific
to the german tax law. Or a IM client that is used 99% in china. Or a
english train table travel planer. The use-case would be that e.g. in
software-center there would be a gentle warning that the app may not
be useful in your current region. It could also be used to alter
search results (e.g. region::cn and searching for IM). I know there is
the culture:: tag, but it seems to not quite match the above plus its
not granular enough for e.g. the tax application use-case (as
culture::german is too broad and includes other german speaking
countries with different tax laws).

The other one (probably more controversial as this will clutter the
Tags file a lot) is to include a translated::

Re: Vocabulary additions

Samuel Bronson — 2012-01-28T18:31:35

Cool, thanks.


Huh. I just figured a programming language was a programming language!
 Didn't realize it might be important whether the language was
primarily used to write hardware or software.  (And, with Programmable
Logic Devices like FPGAs, the line gets fairly blurry anyway.)  I was
actually anticipating an argument more along the lines of: you haven't
met quorum for those tags yet, foolish mortal!

In any case, most (all?) of the implementation packages here seem to
be simulators, which actually run Verilog/VHDL programs, though Icarus
Verilog, Alliance, and FAUhdlc appear to also have support for
synthesis. (GFDL is also referred to as a compiler, but evidently that
refers to plain-old assembly/machine-code generation, not any kind of
hardware synthesis.)


I would propose a devel::lang:povray tag, too, except:

* There weren't that many packages to which it would apply
* Afaik, they all had "pov" in the name, which made them pretty easy
to find without any tag
* They seem to have disappeared in an

Re: please add "devel::lang:vala" tag

Enrico Zini — 2012-01-28T14:59:40


There is in the website:
http://debtags.debian.net/reports/taginfo/devel::lang:vala

It's a recent addition, so it might not have yet made its way into the
debtags package.


Ciao,

Enrico

Re: Tags in control files

Enrico Zini — 2012-01-28T12:36:55


Done: http://bugs.debian.org/657725

I added a possible proposal for the future of the tag, to allow
'official' tags to coexist with 'extra' tags in the Tag field and to
allow maintainers to control what facets they want/need to take over and
what facets they just get from debtags.debian.net.

That was given as a context for possible future developments, which is
always good to have when writing code. If you then find that it's easy
to implement that, too, then I for one won't surely complain.

Wrt Tag: fields possibly becoming too long, the best solution is
probably to get rid of the {} compression hack, and just wrap the field
into multiple lines. As soon as I know that dak can do the wrapping, I
can upload an overrides file without {} compression.

If this can benefit from high bandwith, low-latency interaction, I'll be
at Fosdem.


Ciao,

Enrico

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Axel Beckert — 2012-01-28T13:26:51

Hi,

Enrico Zini wrote:

That's how I got that mail, nevertheless my reply is more general, so
I just reply debtags-devel -- I'm though not on that list.


I miss system::virtual in this list.

Regards, Axel

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Enrico Zini — 2012-01-28T11:30:31


Good idea. Your mail plus
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/01/msg00731.html
make me decide to go for "system::mobile".

There is now even a new official Debian list whose introduction matches
rather well the intention of this tag.

[For the debian-mobile people I just Cc-ed, we are talking about a
proposal[1] for a new Debtags facet for "Class of system" (laptop, mobile,
server, cloud, embedded...]

[1] http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debtags-devel/2012-January/002157.html


Ciao,

Enrico

Re: Vocabulary additions

Enrico Zini — 2012-01-28T15:12:34


devel::lang:TODO is definitely a good idea. It's rather meta indeed: I
reckon it makes sense to justify it by its need/use case, rather than by
the number of packages.

I've added devel::lang:TODO, devel::lang:erlang, implemented-in::erlang
and works-with-format::diff; those seem very much uncontroversial to me.
I've also sent your works-with-format::diff to the site after making
sure the site loaded the new version of the vocabulary.


I'm a bit less sure about Verilog and VHDL: I am not an electronics
expert; if I understand correctly that they are languages used to design
electronics rather than to write software, perhaps we are better served
by field::electronics (which exists) and perhaps new tags
works-with-format::verilog and works-with-format::vhdl?

The rationale for that is that the "devel::*" facet is specifically for
Software Development.

OTOH I see such things as "verilog compilers". OTOH there are such
things as povray and csound, which compile languages into something that
isn't software.

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Axel Beckert — 2012-01-28T16:02:59

Hi,

Enrico Zini wrote:

Some suggestions below.


Nevertheless I noticed that Debian very likely has way more packages
dedicated to systems hosting virtual machines than dedicated to be
installed inside a virtual machine. The only packages for which IMHO
this tag would be useful are AFAICS imvirt, virtualbox-guest-*,
openvm-* and xserver-xorg-*-vm*.

So I wonder if that tag will be useful enough to grant its existence

please add "devel::lang:vala" tag

Sebastian Reichel — 2012-01-28T12:00:55

Hi,

IMHO all vala development related tools should be tagged as
"devel::lang:vala", but there is no such tag yet. Can you
add it please?

Added new system::* debtags facet

Enrico Zini — 2012-01-28T15:32:28

Hello,

I have finally added the new system::* facet to the Debtags vocabulary:
http://debtags.debian.net/reports/facets/system

This is the bit of vocabulary[1] that has been added:

  Facet: system
  Description: Class of system
   Class of system a package provides specific functionality for.
 
  Tag: system::cloud
  Description: Cloud
   Cloud computing is the delivery of computing as a service rather than
   a product, whereby shared resources, software, and information are
   provided to computers and other devices as a metered service over a
   network (typically the Internet).
   .
   Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
 
  Tag: system::embedded
  Description: Embedded
   A computer system designed for specific control functions within a larger
   system.
   .
   Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_system
 
  Tag: system::laptop
  Description: Laptop
   A personal computer for mobile use.
   .
   Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptop
 
  Tag: system::mobile
  Description: M

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Enrico Zini — 2012-01-28T15:23:50


Indeed it is missing. I could not do much better than this for the
description, since Wikipedia takes it from a different angle (it does
not have 'Virtual computer' but it has 'Hardware virtualization').
Improvements welcome.

  Tag: system::virtual
  Description: Virtual
   A virtual computer hides the physical characteristics of a computing
   platform
   from users, instead showing another abstract computing platform.
   .
   Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_virtualization



Ciao,

Enrico

Vocabulary additions

Samuel Bronson — 2012-01-28T00:23:56

I'm proposing a few things for addition to the debtags vocabulary:

* devel::lang:erlang and implemented-in::erlang, for Erlang stuff

* devel::lang:vhdl, for VHDL tools

* devel::lang:verilog, for Verilog tools

* devel::lang:TODO, for development tools for languages that do not yet
  have their own "devel::lang:" tag.

* works-with-format::diff, for tools that work with diff-format
  patches. (Now if only we could apply debtags to commands and
  subcommands within a package, then we could tag stuff like "git diff"
  and "git am"...)

I have a debtags patch to justify all but the Erlang tags and
devel::lang:TODO; there are LOT of erlang-related packages, and TODO
tags are rather meta.

gmane.linux.debian.devel.debtags

Re: Bug#632930: debtags shows different packages whenextending/fine-graining a tag expression.

Re: Calendar management-related tags

Calendar management-related tags

Re: A tag for video camera and microphone?

Re: Bad link on debtags.alioth.debian.org?

Re: A tag for video camera and microphone?

Re: A tag for video camera and microphone?

Translated::* tags [was: Re: Tags for region and translation status?]

region::*/iso3166::* tags [was: Re: Tags for region and translationstatus?]

Tags for region and translation status?

Re: Vocabulary additions

Re: please add "devel::lang:vala" tag

Re: Tags in control files

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Re: Vocabulary additions

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

please add "devel::lang:vala" tag

Added new system::* debtags facet

Re: Feedback on a new system::* set of tags

Vocabulary additions

region::/iso3166:: tags [was: Re: Tags for region and translationstatus?]