gmane.comp.web.zope.plone.ui

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Tseng-Planas, Alice — 2012-05-14T16:20:52

Hi there,

On 5/12/12 1:18 PM, "Martin Aspeli" <optilude+lists-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:


Oh yes. We tried in vain for a very long time to use the Mac Binaries
(with many failed attempts) because many of the designers in our group
resisted having to open the terminal. The only cases where the Binary
installer worked w/o a hitch was with 2 Lion laptops.
Finally, after much research online and seeing postings for issues with
32bit vs. 64bit libraries and other reports of issues with the Binary but
success with buildout -- that was the primary way we ended up getting
everyone to success. However, certain machines (Mac 32-bit) using buildout
caused issues with lxml and we had to follow more online tutorials to help
troubleshoot -- we used your posting on Plone.org about lxml+mac to help
one person move forward after 5 failed tries.

I can't emphasize how stressful this was for people. Our core group did a
lot of hand-holding. Some background: most designers on this campus work
with sys adm

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-05-12T20:18:29

Hi,

On 7 May 2012 19:08, alicetseng <atseng-nZOOoI/Jc/qVc3sceRu5cw< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Thanks, that's very helpful.

Did you try the Unified Installer at all?

Obviously, the git part will go away once we're at release. lxml is a
bit of a pain, but with z3c.recipe.staticlxml it should work fine.

You could try to create an environment with plone-devstart.py instead
if you wanted, which could be easier/safer, although again it'll be a
fit fiddly until there's a release.


That'd be great!

Initial impressions are very valuable. Let's start there.

One thing I'm keen to understand is whether designers (and/or
evaluators) would consider building a theme entirely inside Plone
(using a combination of the file manager and the theme mapper) or if
it's always going to be about filesystem import.


I'd prefer to keep things on-list if we can, so more people can join
in. Is that OK?

Martin

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

alicetseng — 2012-05-07T18:08:10

Hi Eric, Martin and good folks, 


Martin Aspeli wrote
We have everyone in our group running the latest branch at this point -- but
it was a complicated journey. Everyone in the workgroup is on Macs -- but a
mixture of Lion, Snow Leopard 64-bit, Snow Leopard 32, Leopard ... so
getting everyone setup took quite a while (4 months). 

Our workgroup's current project is creating "designer friendly" installation
instructions so that we can get more designers to evaluate and play with the
diazo theme mapper. We found that issues with the Plone 4.1x Mac Binary
installers were big roadblocks. In addition installing lxml/git/xcode -- was
way outside of the mental model for designers. We don't know enough yet on
what the issues are with the Mac Binary. We have a to-do task to isolate the
problem and then submit a bug ticket. Having an easier start-up would be
major as 100% of our designers are on Macs and I'd say 90% would want a
binary installer.


Martin Aspeli wrote
Our workgroup meets once a week with 4 dedicated

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-05-05T12:59:58

Hi,

That's fantastic!

The thing to do is to get the branch up and running so you can test
the latest incarnation, if you haven't already. Feedback and support,
especially with CSS and/or graphics as well as mock-ups or functional
suggestions and hands-on testing, would be greatly appreciated.

I've been too busy to do much on this recently, but plan to try to get
the PLIP over the line week after next.

Martin

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Eric Steele — 2012-05-04T17:57:35


I'll have to defer to Martin or Denys on what remains to be done with the theme mapper, but just wanted to welcome you on board. I'd say your not being (Python, or otherwise) developers is a big benefit – that's exactly who we're trying to target with this tool.

Eric

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Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

alicetseng — 2012-05-04T16:44:38

Eric Steele wrote

Greetings Folks,
Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself. I'm a UX designer working with a
small team of front-end folks (4) at a higher-ed. We're currently working on
a project that utilizes Plone as a foundation for a hosted campus CMS
service. 

We've been playing with the Diazo theme mapper and are really interested in
seeing where this project will develop. We have a standing workgroup with
campus designers specifically to learn/evaluate Diazo. 

Is there anyway we can help with user feedback/prototype testing/UI
sketching? We're definitely not python developers - and come to CMS's with
very different needs/expectations. We're really invested in this aspect of
Plone succeeding - let us know if there's a need we can address -- I'm happy
to approach the design workgroup with some concrete tasks.

Cheers,
Alice

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Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-03-09T20:26:40

Hi,

On 8 March 2012 21:57, Denys Mishunov <denys.mishunov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:


Great, thanks!

Do you not worry that the file tree + tabbed interface will be a bit
small if it takes up a quarter of the screen?


Sure, but I think *discoverability* of Plone's (new) theming
capabilities is an important consideration.


That would be great!


I do like the idea of integrating them. It was something we asked for
ideas on and wanted to do from the beginning.

Nathan, curious what you think of all this?


Ah, here I disagree somewhat.

I can see a lot of people (e.g. me) who want to build themes on the
filesystem wanting to use the selection capabilities of the the theme
mapper. The CSS-rule generator is more appropriate and useful than
what you get in e.g. Firebug, and the Esc-to-select-parent operation
is very useful for identifying containers. I don't particularly want
to lose this, even if it is somewhat a power-user feature.


Mmm, maybe we changed it. I'll need to look again.

M

Re: [Framework-Team] PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Ramon Navarro Bosch — 2012-03-09T11:56:44


Just maybe it would be a better idea to show a tree of rules instead of the
rules files by itself. There should be always the option to see the rules
file, but maybe a tree representing the rules whould be a nicer way to
understant the rules file.



I mean a new static theme file ( a .html file ). I thought if there should
be the option to change the theme file depending on the kind of object, the
path, section.




great !

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Denys Mishunov — 2012-03-08T21:57:37

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the answers. I like those "Good point" things :) I have attached PDF with 2 mockups — one for the configlet and the second one for the mapper. I believe we don't need any more views and everything should be covered by them. Please, also check some of my comments inline below.

On Mar 8, 2012, at 5:53 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote:


We should cater for both scenarios. But those "tinkering" with Plone are going to only 'tinker' with the editor as well — it's going to be only part of their Plone exploration and not necessarily large part. So we should prioritize those who will need to do the stuff for real in my opinion. We can not cater each and every — set strict priorities and adjust once a use case or an issue come.


Will see what I can come up with as a simple boilerplate theme. But it's not going to happen in the coming days.


In my mockups we don't need this as a separate view at all now — there is no separate file manager view, hence no need for a separate preview feature.

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-03-08T09:18:39

Hi Denys,

Thanks for this - all very good feedback. I'll try to answer in detail
and see what we can do to fix.

One request, though: you said the structure of the theme mapper is "a
mess". Could you perhaps do a quick mock-up (low-fidelity is fine) of
the type of structure you think would work better? I didn't quite
follow the textual description.

Marint

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-03-07T20:09:00

Can you define 'quite complicated'?

Can you provide some actionable feedback that would enable people to
work on making it better?

Can we consider whether this is an improvement or not on status quo?

It would be really, really good if we could test on some target
audience users. I'm not sure how we achieve that, though.

Martin

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Ramon Navarro Bosch — 2012-03-07T11:17:18

I've played a bit on this, amazing !

right now is not usable as it's quite complicate to define a new rule IMHO.
I've added a playing theme to have a rich real example.

You can test it at :

Not skined : http://i.iskra.cat

Skined : http://demo.iskra.cat

admin/theming

On 6 March 2012 18:39, Eric Steele <ericsteele47-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Eric Steele — 2012-03-06T17:39:35

Either one will work now.

 

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Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Denys Mishunov — 2012-03-06T17:36:05

On Mar 6, 2012, at 5:06 PM, Eric Steele wrote:


We are still on python2.6? Not 2.7?

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< at >mishunov

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-03-06T16:20:06

The PLIP buildout basically does the same checking as well.

Martin

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Eric Steele — 2012-03-06T16:06:22

It'd be something along the lines of:

I'm working on setting up a demo site that you can try out as well.
Eric



On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 at 3:41 AM, Denys Mishunov wrote:



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Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Martin Aspeli — 2012-03-06T12:54:23

Build the PLIP buildout. Make sure p.a.theming is installed in the
site, then go to the Diazo Theme control panel. You can create a new
theme based on a template (which is super-simple, and needs to be made
more representative) and go from there.

Martin

Re: PLIP 12227: In-Plone Theme Editor

Denys Mishunov — 2012-03-06T08:41:57

Hi Eric,


Do we just build with the plip's config? If it's possible to get a
demo up and running instead of building the thing locally I would be
happy to review.

Re: Stylesheet problems

espen — 2012-02-01T14:33:11

I would guess there is a typo, try to make your css files very simple (for example just a line with
p { display: none}

and see if it works 
.... then add back things a little by little.

Espen

Den 1. feb. 2012 kl. 14.12 skrev KlasNordberg [via Plone]:




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Re: Stylesheet problems

Chrissy Wainwright — 2012-01-31T22:38:37

Are the styles still written in the stylesheets being applied when not in development mode?

When not in development mode, the CSS registry merges the files to reduce the number of loads.  This means you're not going to see the name of your CSS files, instead it will be something like "public-cachekey9069.css"

In the CSS Registry > Merged CSS Composition tab, you can see how the files are merged together.


Thanks
Chrissy Wainwright

Re: Stylesheet problems

espen — 2012-01-31T22:02:08


When in development mode, the css in subfolders are loaded, maybe this is why.
This has been discussed before, so try googling for it (I cant remember it now (home, a bit busy)

Espen