gmane.comp.web.zope.plone.evangelism

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Ross Patterson — 2012-05-23T14:02:32


+1

Ross

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Gabrielle Hendryx-Parker — 2012-05-23T10:58:26

When coming up with a release name, keep in mind we will need to be able to explain the choice to the media. We can't just say "oh, it sounded nice", or "this is a fun destination for vacation" (although I personally like "Ventura").

"Lion" and "Tiger" both come with the connotations of "powerful", "superbe", "respectful", etc.

We will have to tie the name to the main features in Plone 5. So, what are the top 3 new benefits in Plone 5?

Gabrielle

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2012, at 4:20 AM, Matt Hamilton <matth-hN9U2jWzDx29FHfhHBbuYA< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Jan Ulrich Hasecke — 2012-05-23T10:53:31

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Am 23.05.12 10:40, schrieb Matt Hamilton:

What about dances. I could perform a Tango, a Milonga and a Tango
Waltz at the release party. ;-)

juh
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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Matt Hamilton — 2012-05-23T09:02:32

On 23 May 2012, at 07:19, Mark A Corum wrote:


And as if by magic…. just announced...

http://www.ploneconf.org/news/plone-innovation-awards-2012

Mark… you might want to check with them about trophies!

-Matt













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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Matt Hamilton — 2012-05-23T08:40:20

On 23 May 2012, at 09:31, Dylan Jay wrote:


Indeed.


I think the beach names works well as they are abstract enough.



Uh-oh ;)

-Matt













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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Dylan Jay — 2012-05-23T08:31:44


same goes for android release names. I think ice cream sandwich is fun  
for developers but your average person walking into a phone shop is  
probably going to feel weird asking for it.
This name thing will be tough. It has to be both "enterprisy" and cool  
for developers. A job for  whoever is drinking beer at PSE right now :)

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Matt Hamilton — 2012-05-23T08:19:56

On 23 May 2012, at 08:38, Dylan Jay wrote:


I really quite like that idea.


Yeah, that is very good too and I like the international aspect of it. I think I like it even better than the snake one. We just need to watch out as Apple codenamed a laptop Pismo, which is a beach in California. I don't think they were on a beach theme though as the others in the series were Lombard (I presume the street in SF), and Wall Street.

We have to have a sprint / release party at each one of these beaches as we go along right? ;)

I've always thought the Ubuntu release names were a bit naff. Whilst I think they work great for developers I always feel a bit daft referring to Breezy Badger or Oneiric Ocelot in a business setting.

-Matt













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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Dylan Jay — 2012-05-23T07:38:51


Since it's python we could use snake names. Plone cobra. Plone  
Anaconda. Plone Boa etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_snakes_by_common_name 
)
Previously there was a suggestion of famous beaches. That makes  
international which is nice. Plone Brighton, Plone Bondi, Plone Del  
Mar, Plone Ventura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_beaches)
Alteration can sounds good so a theme of words starting with P?


Not sure if either of these suggestions are cool enough though.

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Mark A Corum — 2012-05-23T06:19:57

I think the idea of a contest to drive new users to Plone is a good one.
 But trophies? Not good.  I work at a university and work with students
every week with campaigns.  They see trophies as a joke - artifacts of old
time thinking with about as much attractiveness as an eight track or
cassette tape.  Please don't date Plone as old and tired in this way.

When dealing with competitors to whom acceptance means jobs, money, etc -
this is just a bit weak.  There are much better, more forward thinking ways
to recognize excellent work.  We should do this - but in a BIG way with
some serious recognition.

Naming releases after beers is a non-starter because of copyrights.  The
joke only works when you use actual beer names - and sadly that is a
copyright licensing issue. While I'm glad this April Fool's joke has taken
on a life of its own, beer naming works for developer culture - and doesn't
work for corporate, education or many foreign cultures which attach
negative connotations to alcohol. Armin is right on t

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Shigeo Honda — 2012-05-23T06:00:21

Hi

Thanks everybody. I'm surprised to read a lot of thoughtful input.
I'm confident the power of Plone community.

I've also realized that marketing and promoting Plone is common,
global agenda we can share and should tackle with.

Thank you.

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Armin Stroß-Radschinski — 2012-05-23T05:26:25

The value of a "release name buzz " is something I absolutely agree  
with! (except beer or wine, which is not compatible with every culture  
of having fun or not ;-) That should not be a joke!

Thanks Gabrielle for bringing this up again!

...
read more there...

"running gag" concepts for campaign sequels are the solution that  
burn=>brand values into brains.
If we use a continuing metaphor it may save a lot of headaches in the  
creative department!

Here the arguments for galaxies from a proposal not shared wider until  
now (be not limited to earth!):


We should make Plone is so cool you would like to have a tattoo of it  
and be sure to have a chance being proud of it when you retire!

Am 22.05.2012 um 23:22 schrieb Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.]:


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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Dylan Jay — 2012-05-23T00:39:36

On 23/05/2012, at 7:22 AM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] wrote:



+10 for named major releases. However I think beer names has with  
copyright?

In terms of attracting developers I think this is a fantastic idea. I  
have a theory that popularity of frameworks can be attributed at least  
20% to it's name. Sounds crazy but consider this: no matter how cool a  
technology each one of us is going to feel some reluctance  
recommending it to a friend over beer if the name is boring or worse,  
embarrassing. Ruby on Rails, Flask, Bottle... all cool names. Zope,  
Ice cream sandwich... not so much :)
This is our opportunity to modernise and make Plone part of a name  
which is cool.

Plone 5 is also a game changer. Diazo and Deco is going to change  
Plone into one the best through the web site creation tools around I  
believe. Maybe Plone 4.3 could be Plone Diazo because of the theming  
editor, and Plone 5 be Plone Deco?

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Dylan Jay — 2012-05-22T22:41:34

On 23/05/2012, at 7:23 AM, "Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.]" <
ken.wasetis-maGkBM8SPcwgA6DENJS+mtBPR1lH4CV8< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

 +1

Maybe Mark Corum can post the link to his beer-branded release names PLIP
(originally, an April Fool's joke) ?  I think it was gathering steam as a
real PLIP last I looked.

I vote for Plone 5 - Barnstormer  (
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/5049/13084/?ba=hunteraw ), which was
my favorite ale at the Bristol Plone conf.  :)

We'd have to also be sure to not have conflicting numbers included in
release names.  As I recall from my Java days, it was a real mess
explaining that JDK 2 actually included Java 1.2 or some such mess.


Pity cause the logical name would be "plone 3D" :)



-Ken


On 5/22/12 4:06 PM, Gabrielle Hendryx-Parker wrote:

Could it also be that Plone has been marketed as "Plone v1, v2, v3, v4" for
10 years and that has very little appeal?

 As a marketing-driven company, Apple understood this phenomenon very well
and, instead, rolled out "Tiger", "Leop

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] — 2012-05-22T21:22:53

+1

Maybe Mark Corum can post the link to his beer-branded release names 
PLIP (originally, an April Fool's joke) ?  I think it was gathering 
steam as a real PLIP last I looked.

I vote for Plone 5 - Barnstormer  
(http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/5049/13084/?ba=hunteraw ), which 
was my favorite ale at the Bristol Plone conf.  :)

We'd have to also be sure to not have conflicting numbers included in 
release names.  As I recall from my Java days, it was a real mess 
explaining that JDK 2 actually included Java 1.2 or some such mess.

-Ken


On 5/22/12 4:06 PM, Gabrielle Hendryx-Parker wrote:

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Gabrielle Hendryx-Parker — 2012-05-22T21:06:07

Could it also be that Plone has been marketed as "Plone v1, v2, v3, v4" for 10 years and that has very little appeal?

As a marketing-driven company, Apple understood this phenomenon very well and, instead, rolled out "Tiger", "Leopard", "Snow Leopard", "Lion"... unveiling each version as a totally new product. This allowed them to leverage totally different marketing campaigns and keep the public interested.

Can we orchestrate a grand new product launch for Plone 5 under a different marketing name (but keep the Plone name as the umbrella brand)?

Gabrielle

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] — 2012-05-22T20:29:05

+1 Sounds like a great idea!  Maybe approach the marketing committee 
and/or Board?

On 5/22/12 2:03 PM, Armin Stroß-Radschinski wrote:

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Armin Stroß-Radschinski — 2012-05-22T19:03:32

Google Summer of Code supporting Plone may was a good recognition in  
the upcoming professionals area. Timo Stollenwerk and Franco  
Pellegrini are excellent examples what kind of success good newcomer  
support can bring up! We need such successful people talk more about  
their involvement.

Cab we create a well donated developer contest attracting new guys by  
special topics and attractive winner prizes? Of course! Then the  
celebration of the handing over should be a remarkable media event (at  
least look like!)

To design and deliver a remarkable award trophy that makes up good  
photos and heavy weight on the desk should be no problem (for me ;-)  
waving! We were running pupil contests with around 5000 participants  
each time for nearly 10 years. The setup is in the drawer!

Armin


Am 22.05.2012 um 19:23 schrieb Maurizio Delmonte:





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Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Maurizio Delmonte — 2012-05-22T17:23:25


actually, I have two talks in Europython this year: one mentions both Plone
and Django in the title, the other just declares "professional content
management with Python in 2012"..

both the talks are in italian, so good chance are there that they were
short in proposals ;)

Nonetheless, Django itself this year had a very low profile presence at
Europython (try to search for it here
https://ep2012.europython.eu/p3/schedule/ep2012/ and you'll see just 3
talks on Django, then two more, one very tech unrelated and the other from
me..)

I believe we need to be present at PyCons as much as we can, to make people
aware that Plone is well alive and that plone could serve them well
(finally we are made out of Python, aren't we?).

I also believe that Matt & c. are right in saying that we should try to
attract devs using other channels, universities being a good alternative to
me.
Let's inspire more people to do this!

Maurizio

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] — 2012-05-22T15:11:07


On 5/22/12 9:53 AM, Matt Hamilton wrote:
+1 and that's a big reason I like going to a CMS Expo in our area that 
is more concentrated on Drupal/Joomla and other PHP-based tools, but I 
have one other idea that I think could create a few more converts more 
quickly...  Target the theme developers who currently crank out themes 
for Wordpress/Drupal/Joomla.  They can get a few more miles out of 
selling their themes, if they just learn how to roll the theme using 
Diazo.  The themes are already designed with 'includes' and 'portlet 
treatments' and are normally pretty good semantically and would work 
well with Plone.

I'm in the process of leveraging a Wordpress theme for a redesign of our 
company site and afterwards plan to contact the theme developer to pique 
her interest, hopefully, in doing the same.  Many sites, such as 
ThemeForest.com allow you to download the theme you've purchased for WP, 
Drupal, or Joomla.  Would be great if the theme devs start asking 
ThemeForest and others to 'please carry o

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Matt Hamilton — 2012-05-22T14:53:06

On 22 May 2012, at 15:41, Dylan Jay wrote:

Damn… sounds like would be a great talk. Shame it wasn't accepted. That's going to be a fun lightning talk ;)



No, exactly. That is kind of why I sometimes think that Europython/PyCon is not the place we need to be promoting Plone. The problem being I don't know *where* we should be promoting it in terms of attracting new developers. 

Also, as a community we have plenty of our own events. If I was a Plone developer and could only afford to go to one conference then it will be a Plone one, not a general python one. Or put another way, as an employer of Plone developers I can see much more value sending people to Plone conferences than Python conferences. Hence often Plone is not that well represented proportionally at PyCon-type events as they are too busy at their own events.

I speak at least once a year a the local university and promote Plone there… especially the community. Showing them photos of all the events worldwide and telling some of the stories

Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Japan 2012 and Plone

Dylan Jay — 2012-05-22T14:41:58


for the record the talk I did submit didn't mention plone. It was  
called something like "zero to website hero in 30min" and was going to  
a complete themed site from start to end in 30min talk slot. Now I'm  
just going to have to do the same thing in a 5min lightning talk slot :)


We need developers but they don't have to be die hard python devs.  
Python devs like making frameworks not themes :) Maybe we should be  
speaking at php conferences :)