http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/904 User/Group/Security framework is also not necessary for a web framework but we all know how big advantage is that for Aida. Party framework looks not so important in the first sight but when you start solving already mentioned WebUser/Person duality, you soon come to conclusion that you need to move part of party framework to Aida. But if you move part, why not more, at least as much as needed that party framework is complete. That was my line of thinking when decided to move it to Aida. Also, don't underestimate all possible and not possible security needs by your customers. Role based security for instance is quite common those days. Just think Oracle for instance. I don't say that party framework couldn't be simplified, but to completely remove it, well, this is a step back from my viewpoint. Janko Janko Mivšek 2008-05-17T12:43:33 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/903 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-17T12:05:21 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/902 Party Role framework can be very valuable when you build more complex security scenarios, for introducing role based access control for instance. So even that is currently not used, can be in near future. Duty of any framework is to provide tools for you and not necessary for other parts of framework alone. And from my experience this tool is valuable, that's why I decided to move it directly to Aida. Another reason is that because of lack of such framework we have now two objects for persons: WebUser and Person in Scribo. With party/role framework in Aida we can now migrate in only one: Person with a WebUser role! Party role framework currently looks quite complicated but when a bit of description will (hopefully soon) arise you see that it is not so complicated as seems. But very powerful. Janko Janko Mivšek 2008-05-17T12:13:05 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/901 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-17T00:50:34 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/900 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-15T16:08:02 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/899 Hello Nicolas, I think this looks great. I very much prefer the community using its own tools whenever possible. And I see little reason for the Squeak community to use Trac, GForge, Mantis, ..., when we have the opportunity to do better. Those tools are fine in their context and for their people. But Smalltalkers have a different vision, a different view of the world. Squeaksource is an available tool. I don't know what its limits or features are. But it drives me nuts. I hate going to a page that looks like this: (clicking on a link) http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside.html and immediately in my browser address bar it looks like this: http://www.squeaksource.com/< at >JUdO3jUJUhe0Kz2A/oDQ8OLiH To me that is not a true bookmarkable URL. Yes by definition I can use the first and always get the correct page. But still... If you must have the yuck at the end I would rather it be at the end of the original URL http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside.html/< at >JUdO3jUJUhe0Kz2A/oDQ8OLiH At least there we would hav Jimmie Houchin 2008-05-15T14:26:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/898 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-15T12:35:04 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/897 Rob Rothwell 2008-05-12T17:31:49 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/896 Dear all, James Hayes did a partial port of Sport, Swazoo and Aida to Smalltalk/X: ftp://ftp.eranova.si/aida/aida-stx-partial.tar.gz Jaroslav Havlin from Technical university in Prague offered help and he will soon continue his work so that ST/X will be supported too. Thanks you both for that! Best regards Janko Janko Mivšek 2008-05-12T16:06:16 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/895 Yes, normal text stay same as now. You switch to "localized" text when you change it into an association. And you can do that later when you need, which is also an advantage of this approach. You can start with usual text in the code and later just change it to the association and voila, your app is internationalized! I wouldn't complicate much further. If you don't have that text associations, your text is simply part of your code. In any language you wish. But when a need arises to support more than one language, you need to upgrade that text to associations. And this upgrade is simple. Janko Janko Mivšek 2008-05-12T11:05:26 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/894 Rob Rothwell 2008-05-12T10:38:59 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/893 Dear all, With Nico we just had a long IRC brainstorming about how to do localization support in Aida. Here is the proposal: e addText: #fr->'Salut' So, all texts are added as associations with initial language as a key and text in that language as value. Such association then implies that this text can be later shown in many languages as soon as translations are provided. And how will translations be done? In two ways: in-line directly on the web page or in special web app with the translation table. In-line will be preferable for translators, because they will see the complete context in which the text resides. Scope of i18 texts: Question is how to do translations of apps wich are usually made of reusable web elements/components. Shall we provide some global message catalog as is in case of GetText? Such a global catalog is hard to maintain if there is a lot of text. But it avoids duplicates. Our proposal is not to have global but a local message catalogs, one per each element generatin Janko Mivšek 2008-05-12T10:21:38 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/892 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-11T19:14:46 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/891 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-11T18:45:58 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/890 Michael, can you provide an example how would you do that in Smalltalk or Aida case? Janko Janko Mivšek 2008-05-11T17:35:50 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/889 What I thought about for localization (for UIs) was to use strings, but allow for scoping. Just as an idea: '#fr.#appContext.the string to translate with %arg1' printf: {123. } and then look up the translation by original language (fr) and context (appContext). The extra (optional?) language parameter would allow to have the original strings in languages other then English. I generally don't like to have any data in methods, be it images or translation dictionaries. Doubles the needed space and bloats source code repositories. Michael _______________________________________________ Aida mailing list Aida< at >aidaweb.si http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida Michael Rueger 2008-05-11T17:28:05 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/888 Let me explain this idea a bit further. Idea is to edit text directly on a page (but also separately in some special view). Ok, this special view is a standard table of all texts and their translations. But such table is optional while main means to edit text is directly on the page. That is, you simply click the text and edit it directly on its position of the page. Main advantage of in-line editing/translating is that you better see the context of each text among other on the page. This leads to better and more exact translations. Achieving such editing may be technically challenging but it is worth effort, that's I'm sure! Janko Janko Mivšek 2008-05-11T15:41:51 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/887 Hi Nico, I'm thinking about localization for a long time, that is, how to do it as simply as possible, otherwise we will soon "degrade" back to putting texts directly to the code as it is the case now. My proposal in few words: 1. use symbols instead of string for any text, for example: a addText: #welcome instead of a addText: 'Welcome' 2. store language mappings for each view of each App and not globally for a whole site 3. in-line editing (in admin mode) of such text for each view to make translation in different languages. This will be as simple as possible for translators to make such translation. 4. also a traditional edit table of texts and translations, but again per view per App I think this way we can make localization of page texts really simple and user friendly, both for us programmers and end users. Nico, I tried your proposal many years ago (see WebMsgs, the remains of that try) and it didn't work. First reason is that is too hard to program - to ente Janko Mivšek 2008-05-11T15:32:29 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/886 Nicolas Petton 2008-05-11T14:43:57 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/885 Rob Rothwell 2008-05-11T03:51:12 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.server.aida/884 Rob Rothwell 2008-05-11T03:48:54 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.web.server.aida