gmane.comp.web.microformats.general

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

siegfried — 2012-04-19T08:38:18

Am 30.12.2011 04:24, schrieb Robin Winslow:


Sorry for answering that late. Since january i have a new job and too
much to work and too less time :)

So, if you need a "meaningless" container, just beeing a "container" of
no other meaning than beeing a container, then a div without any class
would be correct.

If you need to style it, just use body > div

But if you just use the body element for styleing, this would make such
a wrapper container obsolete. You might want to assign margin oder
padding to the body.

There is just one thing to mention: body is different in meaning in html
and xhtml. In html, it is the root element and as such, any styling of
the body impacts the whole page/viewport. In xhtml, the html element
instead is the root element. Any styling of the body only impacts
everything the body covers. If f.ex. the body only contains 1 word, and
you would set background-color to black, in xhtml this would only set
the background color of this single word to black. In html this would
set the whol

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

siegfried — 2012-04-19T08:27:39

Am 02.01.2012 15:12, schrieb Stephen Paul Weber:


Well, as far as i know, there is such a container element. It is named
"body". I don't think that there is any need of another such element.

regards
Siegfried

microformats and seo - numbers

Glenn Jones — 2012-02-14T13:04:38

Hi All

I am going to be doing a presentation on microformats at a SEO
conference in a few weeks. Last time I did this talk the Q&A was full of
question asking for figures on the effectiveness of rich snippets at
increasing site traffic. 

Does anyone know of any quantitative research on this subject.  I have
had a quick look on the web and cannot find anything.

Cheers
Glenn Jones

PS old version of the tal, if your interested -
http://www.slideshare.net/glennjones/microformats-and-seo

hAudio and HTML5 audio element

Mathias Panzenböck — 2012-02-13T15:42:39

Hi.

I'm new here and hope to have done everything like it is meant to be. I've added a new issue to the 
hAudio issues:
http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio-issues#D10:_2012-02-13__hAudio_sample_and_enclosure_should_support_HTML5_audio

What do you think? I think it would make sense to add the option to write the sample/enclosure as 
audio element with a special class instead of a link with a special rel attribute.

Another thing I noticed, but for which I haven't written an issue (yet) is the "position":
http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Position

The spec says it describes the position of the hAudio item in a list. "Examples of hAudio lists can 
include album track listings, music top 10 lists, playlists, and podcast chapters." So it is 
ambiguous to what position it actually describes. I want to generate playlists in which I add to 
each hAudio item *not* the position it has in the playlist (this I want to be inferred from the 
position in the HTML file), but explicitly the position the song has in its

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

Stephen Paul Weber — 2012-01-02T14:12:53

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Somebody claiming to be Robin Winslow wrote:

Try this on for size (there are other ways):
<http://jsfiddle.net/BQkSv/1/>

- -- 
Stephen Paul Weber, < at >singpolyma
See <http://singpolyma.net> for how I prefer to be contacted
edition right joseph
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Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

David Mead — 2011-12-30T04:47:33

Hi Robin,
I think what Stephen was saying is that the "container" div isn't
needed because your container can either be the html or the body
element, depending on which flavor of doctype you're using.
Both of these can be styled using CSS, so you could use either of
these to squeeze your content.
Though I don't want to put words into his mouth.
Dave

------------------------------------------------
David Mead
------------------------------------------------
http://twitter.com/davidmead
http://davidjohnmead.com
http://dmwebsites.com

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

Robin Winslow — 2011-12-30T03:24:01

I completely agree that it would be lovely not to have any "hacky"
elements in my mark-up, and just have "header", "aside", "article" ,
"footer" as my container elements, but I don't know of any way to
achieve a centralised and squeezed layout without a container element.
E.g.:
http://jsfiddle.net/nottrobin/qcqzC/3/


My question was whether the nav should be part of the header in the
accepted semantic meaning of the elements. But since they put <nav>
inside <header> in the W3C's example
(http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#the-header-element) I
guess it should be.


Absolutely. I found a good article about <aside> and sidebars:
http://html5doctor.com/aside-revisited/

siegfried wrote:

This is an accurate point. However, since (as mentioned above) I have
yet to see a solution for the layout I'm looking for (and which is
quite common - used on html5doctor.com for example) without using a
container element of some kind, I need to have one and I need to call
it something. I could call it "meaningless".

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

siegfried — 2011-12-27T10:33:59

Am 23.12.2011 14:23, schrieb Robin Winslow:

It's not standard, but the idea is interesting. At least, as long as the
2 aside containers contain side-notes to the article or something
similar. Aside is not meant as a presentational positioning but as a
logical grouping.

I do often use the w3c aria landmark role values as class values
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#landmark_roles

Additionally it might be an idea to check RDFa and f.ex. dublin core for
more useful class names.

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

siegfried — 2011-12-27T10:24:18

Am 23.12.2011 19:58, schrieb Stephen Paul Weber:
Indeed. There already exists such an overall container: body.

There is just one thing to remember: There is a difference between html
and xhtml here. In html, body is the root element, in xhtml, html is the
root element. This may cause diffrences when using body as the central
overall container.

BTW: such a "hackish" element does not only waste space. Every class
attribute classifies its content. So what does it mean, if the content
of the container is classified "container"? The only logically correct
semantic would be, that the content itself is a container of something.
Since any html element is a container of some sort, and
class="container" does not classify the type of the content (i.e. adds
nothing to the semantic of its content), this information is unnecessary.

Instead, as stated:
This shows presentational markup. To squeeze the content into the middle
of the page is 100% presentational aspect. So this belongs 100% to css.

Re: Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

Stephen Paul Weber — 2011-12-23T18:58:12

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Somebody claiming to be Robin Winslow wrote:

The correct solution is not not have such a hackish element in your markup.  
I never do.  CSS is powerful enough that you don't need it, it just wastes 
space.


Is the nav part of the header (in your concept of the page) or not?  There's 
your answer.


Almost certainly not.  Sidebars are often <aside> (if they are content that 
is tangential to the main content, as they often are) and are also often 
<nav>.  Sometimes they are neither.

- -- 
Stephen Paul Weber, < at >singpolyma
See <http://singpolyma.net> for how I prefer to be contacted
edition right joseph
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Semantic naming of HTML document layout elements

Robin Winslow — 2011-12-23T13:23:53

Hi. I was wondering if there are standards in marking-up layout
elements for common regions in HTML documents.

I know HTML5 defines <header>, <footer>, <nav> and <article>, and
that's very helpful. But also many websites have a <div
class="container"> that encloses everything, to squeeze the content
into the middle of the page, and I'm never sure if I should, put the
<nav> inside the <header> or after it, and how should left and right
columns be marked-up? Should they be within the <article> element? Or
not? And I thought of using <aside> to denote left and right columns,
with classes like "pre" and "post" but I don't know if this is
standard either.

Does anyone know if anyone has come up with any standards for this
sort of thing?

I did post this question on stackoverflow.com, but thought you guys
might know more than the people that have answered so far:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8615464/standards-for-html-layout-element-class-names

Thanks,
Robin.

Re: [microformats-2] e-* values and the JSONserialization

Tantek Çelik — 2011-12-18T03:28:09

Excellent suggestion. I've added it as part of the special parsing
required for e-* properties here:

http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2#naming_conventions_for_generic_parsing

Thanks,

Tantek

[microformats-2] e-* values and the JSON serialization

Edward O'Connor — 2011-12-15T18:41:19

Hi,

The Microformats 2 page doesn't yet contain a definition of the JSON
serialization algorithm. When it does get written down, the algorithm
should specify that e-* properties (whose value is the DOM desendents
of the element) get serialized using the Serializing HTML Fragments
algorithm in the HTML spec:

  http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-end.html#serializing-html-fragments


Ted

Re: Anyone knows of an hcalendar-to-ical service thatsupports simple RRULEs?

Toby Inkster — 2011-12-14T09:57:05

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:59:47 +0000
André Luís <andr3.pt-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:


My HTML::Microformats Perl module should support arbitrarily complex
rrules (and rdate, exrule, exdate).

It natively converts from microformats to RDF, but if it detects that
the RDF::iCalendar Perl module is installed, it can also offer
iCalendar output.

Usage would be something like this:

  use HTML::Microformats;
  use RDF::iCalendar;
  use LWP::Simple;
  
  my $uri    = 'http://example.com/page.html';
  my $markup = get($uri);
  
  my $document = HTML::Microformats
      ->new_document($markup, $uri)
      ->assume_profile('hCalendar');
  
  print $_->to_icalendar
      foreach $document->objects('hCalendar');

I'm not currently running it as a web service though.

Anyone knows of an hcalendar-to-ical service thatsupports simple RRULEs?

André Luís — 2011-12-12T14:59:47

Hello everyone,

Anyone knows any hCalendar-to-iCal service that supports simple RRULEs?

Test page (am I doing something wrong?)
http://jsbin.com/imuniz/5/edit

I've looked on the wiki, searched the web, tried all I could think of:
Brian's X2V & H2VX (including dev. subdomain), Optimus (XML), ...

The only one that picked it up was Glenn's http://ufxtract.com/ but it
doesn't provide .ics output. ;)

If anyone remembers something I don't, send me in the right direction.

Thanks a lot in advance,
--
André Luís
http://id.andr3.net

Re: make microformat class's invisible

Ted Drake — 2011-11-04T16:40:22

We've put together a great article on how to hide stuff and why you should
use one pattern over another. The goal is to have something that is hidden
but also accessible. As Yahoo is a global company, we also needed a solution
that works in rtl languages.
http://yaccessibilityblog.com/library/css-clip-hidden-content.html

Re: make microformat class's invisible

Massimo Lombardo — 2011-11-02T10:47:32

2011/11/2 ion ion <elgesto-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org>:

How about this:
https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/css/style.css#L253

And this: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/css/style.css#L256

make microformat class's invisible

ion ion — 2011-11-02T09:48:22

Hi!

regarding the FAQ

Q. Given that Google now looks at hidden content as potential spam,
will invisible microformats be considered spam?

to make microformat data invisible is bad practice. But in my case
there is no another choice
I already have a page and insert microdata with all it's field will
damage the view
so
how exactly I can mark the class invisible for view but completely OK
for search engine
what's the downside of this practice?

Thanks!

Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Curriculum Vitae (resumé) schema

Hugh Paterson III — 2011-10-07T22:00:38

Tantek

There is one part the hResume format that is a bit less than eloquent for CVs. That is the citations section of a CV. there was a micro format discussion for hCite but this discussion was not brought into hResume. hResume does mark up citations but not with as much detail as say CoinS. Ideally, utilities like Zotero would be able to pic up citations from CVs as well.
- hugh paterson

On Oct 7, 2011, at 4:40 PM, Tantek Çelik wrote:

Re: Curriculum Vitae (resumé) schema

Dan Brickley — 2011-10-07T21:49:11

2011/10/7 Tantek Çelik <tantek-UfE5FQABeHN2Qaki92YDXw< at >public.gmane.org>:

Thanks, I should've been more explicit that it was just a quick brain
dump and a few searches; sorry I forgot hResume!


Thanks for filling in the gap there.


All good to know :)

Would this be a good practical example to work through how hResume
looks from the perspective of the Microformats 2.0 ideas in
http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2 ? Can you give a simple
list of properties and entry types (or whatever they are called) that
are needed for hResume descriptions?


Thanks,

Dan

Re: Curriculum Vitae (resumé) schema

Tantek Çelik — 2011-10-07T21:40:09

That's quite a good list of resources Dan!

Specifically, you mentioned:


I'd like to reiterate that invitation to everyone, please feel free to
add any known/previous formats for resumes to existing public domain
microformats research on the subject, and use existing research as you
see fit - that's what it's there for as a community resource:

http://microformats.org/wiki/resume-formats


But there's one big link that Dan surprisingly missed: hResume

http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume

Developed using aforementioned research in combination with research
on actual resume publishing practices on the web.


Two key things here:


1. hResume is the most published resume format on the web (for several
years now)

http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-examples-in-wild

from over 10 million resumes on LinkedIn - all marked up with hResume
to numerous long tail examples, tons of individuals who've posted
their resumes online with hResume.

If you're looking at writing a resume search or similar application,
tha