http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3701 <pre>Karl, Not talking about serialization, but in general about your situation: can you divide your domain data vertically some way? Regions, cities, type of clients, type of product, etc. This way you could have several "servers", each one client of many others just as actual clients. But you would have several VMs with much less memory and several snapshots / journals much smallers. Em 27/02/2012 13:43, "Karl Wettin" &lt;karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; escreveu: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________</pre> Alexandre Nodari 2012-02-28T12:06:45 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3700 <pre> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Robert Friberg 2012-02-27T21:35:04 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3699 <pre>One thing that might be easy to paralelize is to speculatively create "empty" instances of your domain objects to be used when the unmarshaller needs them. Klaus On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Karl Wettin &lt;karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-27T17:33:08 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3698 <pre>Oh, ok, no it's 12GB domain data. With indices etc it's quite a bit more. On Feb 27, 2012, at 5:21 PM, Robert Friberg wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Karl Wettin 2012-02-27T16:43:05 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3697 <pre>Some parts of the system could be functionally derived from other parts and therefore excluded from snapshots. Example in C#: [Serializable] class MyModel : Model { [NonSerializable] private Dictionary&lt;string,Article&gt; _fullTextIndex; private List&lt;Article&gt; _articles; protected override void AfterDeserialize() { BuildIndex(); } } Robert Friberg 0733-839080 http://livedb.devrex.se http://livedomain.codeplex.com http://devrex.se http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfriberg -----Original Message----- From: Karl Wettin [mailto:karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com] Sent: den 27 februari 2012 17:12 To: Open discussion about the Prevayler project. Subject: Re: [Prevayler-discussion] Some thoughts on serialization 27 feb 2012 kl. 16:24 skrev Robert Friberg: I don't understand what you mean. karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $</pre> Robert Friberg 2012-02-27T16:21:20 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3696 <pre> 27 feb 2012 kl. 16:24 skrev Robert Friberg: I don't understand what you mean. karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Karl Wettin 2012-02-27T16:11:47 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3695 <pre>Karl, I don't know if this could apply to your situation but one approach is to mark some parts of the system as nonserializable and rebuild them after deserialization. Robert Friberg 0733-839080 http://livedb.devrex.se http://livedomain.codeplex.com http://devrex.se http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfriberg -----Original Message----- From: Karl Wettin [mailto:karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com] Sent: den 27 februari 2012 16:14 To: Open discussion about the Prevayler project. Subject: Re: [Prevayler-discussion] Some thoughts on serialization 27 feb 2012 kl. 16:10 skrev Klaus Wuestefeld: A handful of minutes to unmarshal plain Java snapshot. 3-5? Some 800MB on disk, or 12GB heap. In no way. Just changed the Serializer and tried it out of the box. karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTM</pre> Robert Friberg 2012-02-27T15:24:20 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3694 <pre> 27 feb 2012 kl. 16:10 skrev Klaus Wuestefeld: A handful of minutes to unmarshal plain Java snapshot. 3-5? Some 800MB on disk, or 12GB heap. In no way. Just changed the Serializer and tried it out of the box. karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Karl Wettin 2012-02-27T15:14:24 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3693 <pre> How does that compare to plain Java serialization in your case? How large is your snapshot again? IIRC XStream has something they call "binary mode". Did you tweak XStream? Even if it is slow out of the box, it might be a starting point for your own code. Klaus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-27T15:10:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3692 <pre>It takes about 30 minutes to marshal and 17 hours to unmarshal my root using XStream… : ( At least the last time I tried. Might have done something wrong though. karl 27 feb 2012 kl. 15:35 skrev Klaus Wuestefeld: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Karl Wettin 2012-02-27T14:59:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3691 <pre>Talk to the XStream guys. Guilherme Silveira, an acquaintance of mine, is a developer there. Looking at XStream might give you good pointers. Maybe you can make XStream multi-threaded. Klaus On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Karl Wettin &lt;karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-27T14:35:04 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3690 <pre> 24 feb 2012 kl. 19:54 skrev Klaus Wuestefeld: You are of course right about the dates. I didn't think that far. I brought them up as immutable examples without thinking it through. They are however just a drop of water in the ocean compared to my strings and some of my own immutable classes. Right. Do you see a problem with that? I'll implement something simple but working this week, probably along the way of one file per object or so to show that it works in theory, just to get around the problems with inner workings of ObjectInput/OutputStream until I've figured that out. That's out of scope when when it comes to changes in code , unless one have one heck of a classloader, right? My problem with serialization is really only a problem when it comes to development and debugging, not so much when it comes to live environments. karl------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtu</pre> Karl Wettin 2012-02-26T22:36:14 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3689 <pre>From: Karl Wettin &lt;karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; Nice :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-24T19:15:50 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3688 <pre>Hi Karl, I use longs inside my objects instead of Dates. I only instantiate Dates when some query needs them. Is your idea to implement a multi-threaded serializer/deserializer using reflection? You can also look at taking snapshots/images at a different level such as VirtualBox images. Klaus On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Karl Wettin &lt;karl.wettin&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-24T18:54:36 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3687 <pre>This is me thinking out loud. It must be the fifth time I bring this up here, and I still haven't done anything about but to complain about it. I didn't even get in touch with the people previously recommended here that might have good ideas regarding to how to solve it. Serialization is terrible slow. This one application of mine contains some 12GB heap worth of domain data. Due to the complexity of my domain model and the amount of data it contains now I'm starting to hit stack overflows both while marshalling and unmarshalling unless I increase my -Xss. Given the amout of threads I usually run this is not a good solution for me. Thus in deployed environment I don't use snapshots at all, and since I have loads of changes to the persistent data every second the journals grows huge. It can take an hour to restart. Theoretically this means that in a year from now it can take me days to load the journals. Generally speaking this is not a problem, there are many ways around this such as starting the new </pre> Karl Wettin 2012-02-23T06:09:54 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3686 <pre> So discussing with us on this list provides value only to you, not your users? Are you ready to tell your users and the authors of these 27000 hits that they provide no value whatsoever: https://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bprevayler+%2Barticle ? How will that happen? The LiveDB Home Page and Martin's Post aren't helping much. I lost hope in Martin. I still have hope in you. There are 5 comments on your home page. One of them is 5 months old and is a direct question: "Is LiveDB a prevalence layer?". You didn't answer it. Citing previous work isn't just a "how does that help me?" attitude. It is an ethical attitude. --- How many hours of our lives still must we spend with uncomfortable and unproductive emails back and forth so that you simply add the due "prevalence-based" words somewhere in the description of LiveDB with a link to Wikipedia? Klaus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing </pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-11T05:04:14 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3685 <pre> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Robert Friberg 2012-02-10T21:17:59 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3684 <pre> Yes, it will benefit both camps and prevalence in general, which I believe is on the rise! Hopefully we will get it all straightened out in time for the bachelors thesis. What name are you referring to? We didn't invent a new name, we are just being more general by using the term database engine based on the inheritance chain #livedb is-a prevalence engine is-an in-memory database engine is-a database engine. The #liveDB main page doesn't explicitly say Prevalence Engine or System Prevalence because I don't believe that will provide any descriptive value whatsoever to the intended visitors, simply because they've most probably never heard of it before. Hopefully this will change in the near future! On another note, LMAX is also a prevalence engine, although a highly optimized one. I had a twitter conversation with one of their devs and pointed them to the system prevalence wikipedia page and recieved the reply, "That's exactly what we do". Robert Friberg 0733-839080 http://livedb.devrex.se http://live</pre> Robert Friberg 2012-02-10T21:17:46 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3683 <pre> Ah, yet another voice and a fellow swede as well! Engine no doubt has som spin going on (pun intended). But besides layer, what better can we come up with? Suggestions? Robert Friberg 0733-839080 http://livedb.devrex.se&lt;http://livedb.devrex.se/&gt; http://livedomain.codeplex.com&lt;http://livedomain.codeplex.com/&gt; http://devrex.se&lt;http://devrex.se/&gt; http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfriberg From: Mikael Nordenberg [mailto:mikael&lt; at &gt;ikanos.se] Sent: den 10 februari 2012 14:47 To: Open discussion about the Prevayler project. Subject: Re: [Prevayler-discussion] #liveDB server, research and upcoming webinar on In-Memory Database Systems Not very fond of "engine" myself... In my world, engine is a driving force. Most prevalence layers are not. Must not be tempted to use fancy words for marketing purposes. Den 10 feb 2012 14:31 skrev "Felipe Cruz" &lt;felipecruz&lt; at &gt;loogica.net&lt;mailto:felipecruz&lt; at &gt;loogica.net&gt;&gt;:ha 2012/2/10 Robert Friberg &lt;robert.friberg&lt; at &gt;devrex.se Felipe, *Objects* in memory? Prevalence doesn't require obj</pre> Robert Friberg 2012-02-10T20:48:14 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3682 <pre>Robert, I agree with the Transaction/Query/Command terminology arguments. I agree with the "Model"/BusinessSystem terminology arguments. This is a great opportunity for us to standardize our terminology now that there is another big prevalence engine/layer/thing project being driven. Lets try and do that? I must say, though, that if you want to use a different term for marketing purposes and say that it is prevalence-based, ok. But it makes me sad if you simply transcribe the definition of System Prevalence here in your own words: http://livedb.devrex.se/ and give it a different name without mentioning Prevalence, as if it had come from nowhere. It is the same thing Martin Fowler did: https://gist.github.com/1186975 Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.a</pre> Klaus Wuestefeld 2012-02-10T18:28:17 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.prevayler/3681 <pre>Not very fond of "engine" myself... In my world, engine is a driving force. Most prevalence layers are not. Must not be tempted to use fancy words for marketing purposes. Den 10 feb 2012 14:31 skrev "Felipe Cruz" &lt;felipecruz&lt; at &gt;loogica.net&gt;: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization &amp; Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/_______________________________________________ To unsubscribe go to the end of this page: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/prevayler-discussion _______________________________________________ "Databases in Memoriam" -- http://www.prevayler.org </pre> Mikael Nordenberg 2012-02-10T13:46:54 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.java.prevayler