http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9777 <pre> There is even a suite of extensions ["Legacy"] for exactly that purpose. Yep. &lt;http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2011/05/fortnight-with-gnome3.html&gt; &lt;http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2012/09/recommended-gnome3-extensions.html&gt; I am a heavy keyboarder, and I use DaskToDock as well. Great extension. Yep. What irks me is the *accusing* developers of not listening to users, insisting that things be discussed 'in the open', etc... when all that was true - the poster(s) just either wasn't around then [and it is now a then, not a now] and/or chose not to participate. Someone not choosing to participate means they don't get heard. And sometimes someone is heard - and it still doesn't go that way [has happened to be no small number of times]. If there is *specifically* something someone doesn't like then we can discuss that and possible ways to improve it; but the conspiratorial tone of much of the vitriol simply has no merit in fact. And a large portion is very 'recycled' and complaints that have b</pre> Adam Tauno Williams 2013-05-21T17:13:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9776 <pre> Even then, there are plenty of extensions designed to bring back the old panel and menus approach for those who want to stay with that. And, of course, there's MATE, which is really rather good in its 1.6 release. The best way to use Gnome Shell is to spend a little bit of time using it as the designers intend. Find out what you like and what you don't like, then see if you can fix the "don't like" part with extensions. If you just don't like it and don't want to use it, there are plenty of other fish in the sea. KDE is a fine professional piece of work, for example, but I don't like using it. That's not the fault of the KDE developers and designers. I'm not a heavy keyboard user, so I install the DashToDock extension (turns the Dash into a real configurable dock independent of the Overview), kill the hot corner and window animations and I'm good to go. Thanks to the automatic creation/deletion of work spaces, I can control my desktop exclusively via the dock. It's surprising to me that m</pre> joncr 2013-05-21T14:27:33 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9775 <pre> +1 There is a factor here that if someone doesn't want to adapt their practices - then any new interface is going to be clumsy. I found GNOME Shell awkward for about two weeks, There is simply no doubt that GNOME Shell has greater keyboard accessibility, and improved accessibility over all. Accessibility is now a first-class citizen - even with an accessibility icon right on the top bar. Ctrl+Shift+Alt+R for screencast record is the best thing since sliced bread. </pre> Adam Tauno Williams 2013-05-21T11:38:52 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9773 <pre>Em Sáb, 2013-05-18 às 16:44 -0600, Marcus Rhodes escreveu: Indeed there is an "installer" just install a bare archlinux (only the base system, and xorg) than edit the /etc/pacman.conf to put my repo before the [core] label and comment the other repositories (extra, community....) leaving only the gnome2 and core repositories... fire up a "pacman -Sy gnome2" so that simple... it installs all the gnome2 with libreoffice, librecad, gimp, inkscape wicd, gnome-appets (the batt status working on the knew kernel interface too)... there is firefox 2.20.1, youtube-dl, inkscape, libreoffice 4.0.3, librecad, kicad geda pcb, xine, vlc, avidemux2 ekiga dvdstyler, monodevelop java runtime 7 iced-tea, dia, gthumb, fixed the gvfsd to work with udisks2, so pendrive, dvd, iso plays nice, cheese, the camera works... of course there are some bugs, because the system is only a month of age... but it is 99% useable, I did not tested cups still, the main problem is that when you install the gnome2 group it misses some mod</pre> Sergio de Almeida Lenzi 2013-05-19T02:05:18 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9772 <pre>Em Sáb, 2013-05-18 às 18:31 -0500, Jared Jennings escreveu: I do... using archlinux the repo is gnome2, just add .... [gnome2] SigLevel = Optional TrustAll Server = http://gnome2:81/$arch before the [core] repo in a new installed archlinux (with only the base and xorg) installed than, install gnome2 with the command pacman -Sy gnome2 I would let the "gurus" deal with gnome3, I will stay with gnome2, as I primary use FreeBSD, that is still in the gnome 2.32 alive and well... gnome3 provides a new "solution" that is quite different from the gnome2 I am only letting users choose... those who wants gnome2 will have it... I do not expect to be better of worse than gnome2, it is just a matter of choice as my servers (and I have a lot...) uses gnome2, why the laptops should use another Destkop Environmet (DE)????? users access the FreeBSD servers using vnc, and logs in using gdm 2.18.. but windows is too unstable to work with, so I needed an more stable operating system for laptops, so I choose Li</pre> Sergio de Almeida Lenzi 2013-05-19T02:02:38 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9771 <pre>** This isn't a rant or a rave** :) We love progress, we love old, we love familiar, we love new. We support Free Software and the accompanying options. It's all about *free* as in liberating. I know several of us have been speaking about why GNOME 2x, which that is fine and all, but really lets be problem solvers not complainers. So!! Why doesn't someone maintain a 2x branch? I'm not volunteering for the job; I got my own time problems. - I could be manipulated into it, but I'm sure there are others better qualified and with more time. It would not be ideal in my opinion; I would rather see the effort spent on 3x. The Kernel does something similar with Greg KH. It would appear that GNOME could support this as long as the maintainers realized what they are signing up for. Again, I don't think it's ideal. I do believe it's better than complaining. I would rather see someone provide solutions for 3x instead. ***** Please do not respond to me, in an effort to point me wrong or right. I'm not taking acti</pre> Jared Jennings 2013-05-18T23:31:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9770 <pre>HUD is the antithesis of the GUI. What's it even doing there? Remember the computers of the 1980s? You got a blinking command prompt. And that was all. So you flipped open a HUGE book, and started reading volumes of very poorly written instructions that walked you through a year or two of computer science before informing you that the way to find out what programs you could even try to run required a lengthy and cryptic command string. Menus! 'Menu-driven' was the jewel in the crown of the then two competing DEs: Windows and Finder. The other was standardization. Prior to Mac and Windows, UI design was a free-for-all. If there even were menus, some appeared in the middle of the screen, some in the top-left corner, others in the bottom-left. Some required a single keystroke, other combinations, and some allowed only cursor/arrow key navigation and selection via the enter key. Otherwise, one key toggled between command mode and entry mode, and the command mode was, once again, our old command-line fr</pre> Marcus Rhodes 2013-05-18T23:06:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9769 <pre>Thank you, Sergio. "That is why I rebuild gnome2.32 from scratch using an archlinux distribution (642 modules compilled over a 45 days, with the help of the FreeBSD ports) and gnome2.32 is back running in kernel 3.9 with systemd.. compilled with gcc4.8. runs very well in a US$300 lenovo g475.. I setted up even a distribution repo to work with... Several (about 120) users uses it... (it is distributed in a new samsung momentus 320Gb HD, installs in 5 minutes). have 10Gb size.. " You should create an installer. You could become famous, a hero even. "Remember that new 3D interface for unix/linux that have a cube and the user could have 6 desktops running on each side of the cube??? Who uses it??? it is fantastic but no one uses it any more just because they (the people) can do things they want using the old interface." Excellent point! I would add, who uses it for anything truly practical? I've had a lot of people try to convince me that they really use the cube, but I've never seen any benefit to it eve</pre> Marcus Rhodes 2013-05-18T22:44:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9768 <pre>Em Sex, 2013-05-17 às 19:14 -0600, Marcus Rhodes escreveu: not me either Indeed I stopped to work with kde (not qt) because of these... Skilled people (people with skill on desktop usability) is not more than 5%... this includes you and perhaps all those in the gnome, freeBSD lists.. Once they learn to work in a way, it is very hard to them to use a new way even if that way is more efficient than the other, they will move only if there is a need to move (they move from dos to windows because they need a browser an GUI...) Remember that new 3D interface for unix/linux that have a cube and the user could have 6 desktops running on each side of the cube??? Who uses it??? it is fantastic but no one uses it any more just because they (the people) can do things they want using the old interface... They do not move from windows to Linux because linux is better, if they can do what they need to do on windows.. If you must create a "new" need, people has move to the new (android, ios for example...) interface</pre> Sergio de Almeida Lenzi 2013-05-18T18:53:41 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9767 <pre> I don't get you! Never ever has Gnome been so usable with only a keyboard. I mean lauch a program ex firefox with 3 keypresses ('windows key, then f, then enter) try to be that fast in terminal or in Gnome2 ;) ! Well, I can get to epiphany or firefox with the first three characters then a [tab] key: epi[tab] == epiphany fir[tab] == firefox Then enter. I like the shell a lot and its search function, but I just wanted to defend the terminal :). In my opinion the same holds for the mouse with all the buttons. You use the left click to work in current context, right click for more options in current context, middle click to open a new context, the wheel to do all sorts of scrolling. I think there are hardly any functions missing? I think a lot of the critisism is because of the lack of familiarity and often the removal of features without either end-user-consultance / warning or an obvious reason (ie. Removal of transparency op</pre> Marco Scannadinari 2013-05-18T13:03:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9766 <pre>Well, I've had about enough. Who is Adam Tauno Williams, and for whom does he speak? Not me. And clearly not most of you, as the looming failures of Metro, Unity, and Gnome3 (not to mention KDE's equally useless and counter-productive 'modernity') all demonstrate. (And these examples are relevant.) (Where did you learn logic?) Or is he not watching the download/sales figures? Not that facts would matter. He merely asserts his own, minority opinion is if it were established fact, when, clearly, it is not. Indeed, he appears to me to be the Gnome3 variety of the deservedly much-maligned M$ Evangelists: Chauvinistically proclaiming the (imagined) virtues of the object of their veneration in the futile hope of silencing critics. But the lion roars against the wind. He should know when to shut up. To those who, like me, hope for sanity and/or reality to return to the DE developers, you have my support. Keep up the fight. Refuse to 'upgrade' (which might instead be called a downgrade). Switch to Mate</pre> Marcus Rhodes 2013-05-18T01:14:18 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9765 <pre>Am 16.05.2013 12:01, schrieb Alexey Blinov: Yeah well in fact it is kind of fading out ;) I don't get you! Never ever has Gnome been so usable with only a keyboard. I mean lauch a program ex firefox with 3 keypresses ('windows key, then f, then enter) try to be that fast in terminal or in Gnome2 ;) ! In my opinion the same holds for the mouse with all the buttons. You use the left click to work in current context, right click for more options in current context, middle click to open a new context, the wheel to do all sorts of scrolling. I think there are hardly any functions missing? Which is why you can work faster than the animations if you know your way with the keyboard you will notice that you can launch programms before the animations are even finished (in subseconds) only on like 10 year old hardware the animations might get in the way! Well Debian... the recent version is 3.8 - there were some changes ;) If you are willing to try again there are some cheatsheets[1] floating in the net to </pre> enaut 2013-05-16T12:38:47 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9764 <pre> That doesn't make it a 'live project'. I have lots of old code I continue to build, its still old code, subject to bit-rot, and unmaintained. It does support "desktop with icons", I use it that way. it is just a setting. It does that, there are several menu oriented extensions and I believe the 'legacy mode' supports that as well. As for panels - now there the bar and extensions can populate them. So six of one, half dozen of the other. Neither are relevant here. </pre> Adam Tauno Williams 2013-05-16T20:57:29 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9763 <pre> NOT so fast.... I rebuild gnome2 with kernel 3.9 kms, systemd, wicd, applets... gtk3, libreoffice 4.0.3, gvfs... the same port that FreeBSD 9.1 uses (and it works very well, I am wirtting this from the gnome interface.. this nis different from the cinamon or mate... this is GNOME 2.32 build over an up to date kernel 3.9.X You may say I am crazy, I am old (yes I am, 62 years old, and counting...) the clients still likes the old interface, as they love the old windows XP. When (and if) gnome3 offers the same easy to use interface, whith panels, desktop with icons, drop down menus, I will switch to gnome3. Microsoft made a mistake to change the user interface, (dont be fooled by the media...) what is the success of Apple??? they did dnot change the user interface... Apple offeers 2 user interface (the iphone, and the Ibook)... when they will invent another interface, they will put it in the new hardware too, so new users, will "embrace" new interface... Done... For those want to test... you need </pre> Sergio de Almeida Lenzi 2013-05-16T20:49:43 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9762 <pre> Fortunately it does! So your wish is granted. Nope, I use it all day every day and have no clue what this [or all the similar vague railings] means. I use multiple large displays, keyboard and mouse. It works perfectly well with GNOME shell, and GNOME shell exploits all the resources very effectively. No, no, and no. This meme is just a tired saw. The target was to create a modern and effective desktop. A goal achieved. Yes, and GNOME does this. Effects can be minimized, if required. Although it runs perfectly well on both my Chromebook [running openSUSE 12.3] and my 6 year old 32-bit laptop. That is 2+ major releases old. GNOME 3.6 changed how video 'acceleration' was managed. [which I can only guess is what your complaint is - since you do not specify]. Sorry, GNOME 2 is done, dead, and buried. </pre> Adam Tauno Williams 2013-05-16T15:57:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9761 <pre>It seems it's a rather common problem that GTK3 themes partly break Gnome3.8 by preventing having a nice desktop background while letting the file manager draw the background: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=162204 https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=161918 I've so far found only two GTK3 themes that work in this respect, the default theme Adwaita that ships with Gnome3.8 and Nokto3.8 (http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=158033). I'm not particularly pleased with the aesthetics of either of them though. What's causing this behaviour in themes? (Hopefully it's easy to fix the broken themes I come across.) What other themes have you found that work properly? /M -- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus&lt; at &gt;therning.org jabber: magnus&lt; at &gt;therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus </pre> Magnus Therning 2013-05-16T11:08:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9760 <pre>Hello all, (yet another negative feedback, probably among thousands of others on the net, and hence, may not be worth reading by developers, but I still hope my voice gets counted somehow) I wish Gnome3 would use "classic" computer hardware, like keyboard and mouse with 3 buttons (and a wheel) -- *fully* exploiting these classic hardware controls (I won't explain, probably everybody who tried Gnome3, understands what I mean). Probably the target was all those touch-controlled screens, that's fine, but also keep the desktop GUI for classic hardware. I think Gnome2 evolved in a well-usable "classic" desktop GUI. May be upgrade it to use video-effects, rename it.. but really, continue it as a full sub-project. Operating system could then determine user harware and choose the apropriate desktop GUI for his/her hardware. (As to videocard-accelerated effects.. I do welcome them, nice, eye candy, but to me, interested first in getting work done, they are of much less importance) (I tried Gnome 3.4 in new Debia</pre> Alexey Blinov 2013-05-16T10:01:20 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9759 <pre>// English \\ (fuer eine Deutsche Version siehe unten) # FrOSCon 2013 Call for Projects # We would like to invite you to take part in the eights Free and Open Source Software Conference (FrOSCon 2013). FrOSCon is a two-day conference on Free Software and Open Source, which takes place on August 24th/25th, 2013 at the University of Applied Sciences Bonn-Rhein-Sieg, in St. Augustin near Bonn, Germany. Main part of the conference is a comprehensive range of talks and workshops. Furthermore, there is a large exhibition area, where projects have the opportunity to present themselves and get in touch with users and developers. Moreover, we offer a few rooms for Free Software projects to organize developer meetings or to present their own program for the visitors of the conference. We would be pleased if your project would like to contribute to this year's FrOSCon and thus support the communication and exchange within the Open Source and Free Software community. Depending on the kind of your participation, the</pre> Jochim Selzer 2013-05-14T19:16:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9758 <pre>Yes Yes. And even if the application which requested to be subscribed to them isn't open. What we are really missing is a unified API for hosting message services and sending messages to devices. Think Google Cloud Messaging for the Desktop. Not just browsers but also desktop applications. </pre> Summers Pittman 2013-05-13T17:22:24 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9757 <pre>[Re-posting in plain text.] On 13/05/13 07:27, gnome-list-request&lt; at &gt;gnome.org wrote: You're right Summers, it would be better for there to be a SimplePush daemon for various OSes, which under Linux would generate dbus messages that Gnome can display. By "App" do you mean a desktop application program? Aren't alerts for these working already, such as the new-email alerts sent by Thunderbird? The new thing here is to allow users to request alerts from websites and have them delivered to the desktop even if the website is not open, and even if a browser is not open. Given the existence of a SimplePush service such as the one run by Mozilla, and a SimplePush daemon that listens for notifications from the service and delivers notifications via dbus, all you need is to give browsers the ability to register notifications with the service, and give websites the ability to push notifications to the service. Only Firefox can currently do this, and I'm not sure they'd be willing to run notification servers that</pre> Mark James 2013-05-13T13:37:17 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.general/9756 <pre>_______________________________________________ gnome-list mailing list gnome-list&lt; at &gt;gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-list </pre> Mark James 2013-05-13T02:25:19 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.gnome.general