http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8265 <pre>Hi, On 05/25/2012 09:24 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote: I must admit, minute posting has been pretty lax this year. There have been a few occasions when a backlog of 3 or 4 meetings' worth has come out at once. I used to read the minutes every meeting to see if there was anything where I might be able to provide some historical context or help, and I have been doing that less this year, purely because (as you say German) late minutes are useless - by the time you comment on them, the decision's been made, announced, and everyone's moved on. And since the agenda doesn't get posted here before the meeting, it's hard to even know what the board are working on at any given time. Also, with the long "actions" list on the minutes, it's hard to know where things are moving, where they've been dropped, where they're on standby... for example, we still haven't seen an announcement of what's happening for next year's conference. I think that the transparency of operation is definitely something the ne</pre> Dave Neary 2012-05-25T19:45:03 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8264 <pre> On one hand, the meeting minutes should be a good way to know to be aware of what the board is doing (or not doing). In my first year, I pestered to make them public as soon as possible (3 or 4 days after the meeting). IMO, late minutes are meaningless. I blame myself for having the time and energy in the last year to pester the new secretary, but definitively that is something that any member can do and influence. The meetings are every two weeks and any member can add topics the agenda. On the other hand, in the last years the board has been trying to empower teams and people rather than centralizing power. For instance, the hackfest organization process is straightforward and it does not have be an activity proposed/organized by the board anymore. The board acts as helper of the contributors who want to do more and a bridge with companies when needed. I think there is room for improvement, but I will not spoil the candidates :-) </pre> Germán Póo-Caamaño 2012-05-25T19:24:10 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8263 <pre> Since you mention this on Foundation list I'd also like to apologize for this here - your requests came at a time I was dealing with health issues and I should have been more communicative about that. I believe everything was resolved with adequate time but I'm sorry that you found it at all distressing. (On the specific issues at hand, I thought I'd wrapped up the outstanding portion directly with Udesh, but we can definitely talk more about it privately if you'd like.) I know you also say that you haven't heard any reports of widespread problems, but this is a good opportunity to say here to everyone that if there is some request you are waiting on, please do not hesitate to ping me on IRC (I'm karenesq) or to reach out to others if you feel like there's something that's getting dropped. The board's email (with me and Rosanna) is board-list&lt; at &gt;gnome.org and you can always cc that, which will get to everyone! For me personally, I prefer more contact - you won't irritate me and I feel terrible w</pre> Karen Sandler 2012-05-25T17:52:37 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8262 <pre>... Yet it is still a governance body, and it is the only democratic one within GNOME. Only the Board can actually claim to represent the GNOME community. My question was not guided by personal expectations. I'm interested in how the Board can enhance our community. I personally don't hear or see very much of what the board gets up to, and I don't feel like Foundation membership provides me with much in the way of additional influence. As a member of the board, you might be in a position to change that. If membership of the GNOME Foundation starts and ends with an annual vote, then it doesn't mean very much. If it is synonymous with membership of our community, and if it enables me to have a relationship with GNOME that I couldn't otherwise have, then it means a great deal. Is that something you care about? Allan </pre> Allan Day 2012-05-25T17:33:37 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8261 <pre>2012/5/25 Allan Day &lt;allanpday&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt;: Thank you. I think the Board could be more visible, currently being on the outside I recently spent 3 weeks with non-communications with my board contact (Karen) during the late stages of planning a hackfest. Not knowing what to do or what the protocol was proved fairly distressing and I suspect not helpful to GNOME overall if such situations proves widespread. There are some minor things I would like to see, if you contact the board list, getting an acknowledge that your question was received and notification of when the next meeting where there will be time to debate it, if needed, is scheduled would help a lot. Likewise I don't think I have seen breakdowns of how Board members have voted on issues anywhere which I would personally consider valuable in terms of selecting a candidate to vote for (or to hold someone accountable). That being said, I think I would like to observe the Board more closely to see where it can do better in feeling as a more organic p</pre> gnomeuser< at >gmail.com 2012-05-25T16:54:44 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8260 <pre> I don't quite understand the question. The Board is not where technical decisions are made, it's not where applications or new dependencies are made. What were your expectations of the Board doing, and that they don't deliver on? Why do you think the Board of Directors is "divorced" from the project? </pre> Bastien Nocera 2012-05-25T16:14:26 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8259 <pre> Reading http://www.opensource.org/history: " The conferees decided it was time to dump the moralizing and confrontational attitude that had been associated with "free software" [...] " This sort of characterisation of another organisation is really not what I would want GNOME associated with. To me, they are different terms for the same thing. If we were talking specifically of attitudes of proponents of the different terms, I have bad stories to tell about both sides. The important thing is making It isn't chatter, it was discussed on this very list: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2011-September/msg00008.html It's not up to the Board to make the decision of whether to deploy a gitorious instance. If money, consulting, or similar is needed to deploy it, then we can help, but the infrastructure work, including explaining the needs for such a deployment, would need to come from the various GNOME teams, and a group of hackers actually doing the work. "schism: A split or separation wi</pre> Bastien Nocera 2012-05-25T16:03:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8258 <pre> &gt; GNOME's usefulness as a software package is independent of how we talk &gt; about it.  However, the use of GNOME provides an opportunity to &gt; educate the users about this issue, in philosophical and political &gt; terms -- to teach them the idealism of the free software movement. I don't think we have a duty or even a right to "educate" users in this fashion. That is a rather strange political principle -- that it is wrong to teach or even to present a political idea to others. Fortunately the people fighting SOPA did not follow this principle, or they could not have drawn enough support to win. If I had followed it we wouldn't have GNU or GNOME. Regardless in my personal experience having given presentations on the subject, trying to force a political ideology along with the topic generally leads to glazed over eyes and dismissal at best. Forcing a political view on people is wrong, but since we don't control the state, we could not try that even if we wanted to. </pre> Richard Stallman 2012-05-25T14:51:46 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8257 <pre>Hi David, On 05/25/2012 01:24 AM, gnomeuser&lt; at &gt;gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your frank and honest answers both to this question and the previous one. It's made it very easy to decide not to vote for you. And I mean that as a compliment - I much prefer knowing where you stand on issues that are important to me before the election, rather than being disappointed by you afterwards. Thanks, Dave. </pre> Dave Neary 2012-05-25T10:04:42 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8256 <pre>Hi Joanie, On 05/25/2012 12:49 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote: &lt;snip&gt; I love it, from beginning to end! A great idea and one where we will have lots of help if we decided to open it up to other organisations too. And I love the idea of turning the professors into mentors as well - get the teachers teaching other teachers. All for it! Cheers, Dave. </pre> Dave Neary 2012-05-25T10:02:46 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8255 <pre>Hi all, Thanks to all the candidates for stepping forward. It's fantastic that you are interested in doing this important work. A question for you: Sometimes it can feel like the Board of Directors is a bit divorced from the rest of the GNOME project. Is this a problem, in your view? If it is, what do you think can be done about it? Thanks! Allan </pre> Allan Day 2012-05-25T07:21:02 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8254 <pre> It is clear you have no empathy with Free Software. It is your opinion and that is ok. In practical matters, if you were elected as director: would you block any activity that involves working with FSF? or would you be indifferent? Similarly, would you avoid sponsoring activities/people whose goal is to spread GNOME and Free Software? </pre> Germán Póo-Caamaño 2012-05-25T06:49:29 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8253 <pre>2012/5/22 Richard Stallman &lt;rms&lt; at &gt;gnu.org&gt;: I don't think we have a duty or even a right to "educate" users in this fashion. Regardless in my personal experience having given presentations on the subject, trying to force a political ideology along with the topic generally leads to glazed over eyes and dismissal at best. I am happy to talk about such matters if requested but I am certainly not in favor of using GNOME as a platform to force such views on people. I am here to present a great modern desktop (and eventually OS) not an ideology. There happens to be a number of appealing effects of being Open Source and some limitations created by the state of affairs (DRMed content, software patents, redistribution restrictions, e.g.) that I will happily highlight when relevant but I reject that I have a right to educate people beyond that extend. In short, I have no plans to use GNOME as a platform to spread support for Free Software. David Nielsen _______________________________________________ foundation-lis</pre> gnomeuser< at >gmail.com 2012-05-24T23:24:59 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8252 <pre> Right. In fact, it seems like Mozilla Foundation is the place to go... Greg Wilson (Software Carpentry's lead) works from the Toronto Mozilla offices... This one too: http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1116533--girls-only-code-writing-camp-hits-toronto behdad </pre> Behdad Esfahbod 2012-05-24T23:06:08 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8251 <pre> Seneca College's collaboration with Mozilla has also, by all accounts, been a raging success: http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page </pre> Luis Villa 2012-05-24T22:59:08 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8250 <pre> FWIW, Software Carpentry is one of the more successful experiment I've seen in the "Free Software meets Academic Courses" experiments. Thought I share the link: http://software-carpentry.org/ behdad </pre> Behdad Esfahbod 2012-05-24T22:55:41 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8249 <pre>I hope no one minds the new subject. But I started out innocently enough answering Richard's question. But at the end had an essay plus a proposal. I hate when I do that, but what's done is done, so I wanted to separate it out from the Board Candidacy discussion. On 05/22/2012 10:56 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: [...] Exactly. Hence my statement in my candidacy announcement [1]: "... I would like to see GNOME working actively with colleges and universities to facilitate the integration of Free Software development and philosophies into their courses." We (GNOME Accessibility Team) have already done some work with Dr. Heidi Ellis at Western New England University. She has been introducing her students to Free Software through HFOSS (the H standing for Humanitarian). This work has included coordinating with her, guest lecturing in her course, finding GNOME projects towards which her students can contribute, answering questions as needed, and so on. What we (GNOME Accessibility, Heidi, and </pre> Joanmarie Diggs 2012-05-24T22:49:14 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8248 <pre>I agree with Izabel, I had chance to meet him in LinuxCon Brazil and I believe he will be a great GNOME representative. Kind regards, Arx Cruz On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Izabel Valverde &lt;izabelv&lt; at &gt;gnome.org&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list&lt; at &gt;gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list </pre> Arx Cruz 2012-05-24T16:47:49 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8247 <pre>2012/5/20 Tobias Mueller &lt;tobiasmue&lt; at &gt;gnome.org&gt;: Dear Tobias, I believe you have the necessary experience from community side and you are great as GNOME representative. This certainly I had reaffirmed when I saw your participation in LinuxCon Brazil. Also I'm following all your efforts in Europe to garantee that GNOME rocks! Please keep your enthusiasm and looking for Latin America. I wish you luck. All my best, Izabel Valverde </pre> Izabel Valverde 2012-05-24T14:40:54 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8246 <pre> Yes, thank you, Brian - it's been a pleasure working with you :) And thanks to Germán (who's served multiple terms and as treasurer previously too), Stormy and Ryan who have also decided to step down after this term. We really appreciate your hard work!! karen _______________________________________________ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list&lt; at &gt;gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list </pre> Karen Sandler 2012-05-23T21:46:32 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general/8245 <pre> Thanks for all the work you put into your position, Brian :) Federico </pre> Federico Mena Quintero 2012-05-23T19:52:47 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general