gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Eugene Alvin Villar — 2013-05-25T03:45:52


That was me. I was mistaken. For a given zoom level in Mercator projection,
a tile in an equatorial area shows more real-world area than in a more
northern or southern latitudes.

I actually confused the land area with scale: a tile in an equatorial area
has a smaller scale than in a more northern or southern latitudes. So land
area is inversely proportional to map scale.
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Re: source=Google

Steve Bennett — 2013-05-25T03:49:24

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
<dieterdreist< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Speaking for myself, I either replace it (if I'm replacing virtually
all the geometry) or supplement it: "source=gps;Bing". If I'm tweaking
something that had no source before, I sometimes use
"source=unknown;Bing".

Steve

Re: iD, exclusive use of tags

Steve Bennett — 2013-05-25T03:47:19

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
<dieterdreist< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, this was/is a limitation of Potlatch2 that was never solved.
It's a messy reality of OSM tagging.

To those that think the answer is "well, don't map like that!" -
just...no. That style of mapping is perfectly appropriate in many
places and has some real advantages for data consumers (eg,
identifying roads that have tramtracks, which are a real hazard for
cyclists).


IMHO the solution is to essentially duplicate the GUI when more than
one "primary" tag is found. But there are some unsolved ambiguities in
the tagging, like which tag "name=" refers to.

Steve

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Russ Nelson — 2013-05-25T03:17:07

 > Because it means that this is probably dead data without a community behind
 > it to fix problems and to do updates.

That reason is *exactly* why I said back in 2006 that OSM should be in
the public domain, because if you take data away from the community,
it's dead data.

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

Russ Nelson — 2013-05-25T02:35:33

 > ID is a wonderful editor, simple and intuitive.  Although I am mostly a
 > JOSN user, I know at least 2 beginners who feel confident enough to edit
 > the map since there is ID.
 > 
 > Thanks very much for it. It is helping OSM a lot.

This is ridiculous. I tried ID, and it didn't make my penis bigger OR
harder, my breasts didn't get bigger, I didn't get six-pack abs, and I
didn't get shaplier thighs in just six weeks. All it did was make it
easy to edit OSM. What the hell is up with THAT?!??

I want my money back. MONEY BACK!

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Christoph Hormann — 2013-05-24T20:44:05

Yes, it even gives a slight disadvantage of the equatorial areas now: 
They need to achieve a high mapping density across a larger area to get 
a good score...


I think you did correctly, it's the other way round but the difference 
between Cameroon and Indonesia is marginal.

Arkhangelsk seems to be the only high latitude place that newly made it 
into the new list.

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Frederik Ramm — 2013-05-24T19:51:50

Hi,

On 24.05.2013 18:30, Christoph Hormann wrote:

I re-did the list with "nodes per square kilometre", although this also 
renders the basic idea of looking at z16 meta tiles kind of arbitrary.

Here's the result:

http://fred.dev.openstreetmap.org/density/sqkm.html

Cameroon still features near the top but France has grabbed the first 
four spots.

Someone said that taking the area into account should improve the 
results for Indonesia; either I did something wrong ior the opposite is 
the case - Indonesia featured at #23 before and has now dropped 
completely off the list.

Bye
Frederik

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Jaakko Helleranta.com — 2013-05-24T18:38:47

Interesting in any case. 
.. And it should be easy to adjust the "denseness" of the mapping on the tiles vs latitude. .. Possible to see such update (if not already done)?

Cheers,
-Jaakko
------Original Message------
From: Christoph Hormann
To: talk< at >openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] List: Densely Mapped Areas
Sent: May 24, 2013 11:30

By the way you do realize that Cameroon and other equatorial areas have 
a significant advantage to higher latitudes in this measurement.  So it 
might be prudent to not only say 'FSVO mapped' but also 'FSVO densely'.  

In a quick estimate the area scale ratio between Cameroon and France is 
about 2 so it could be that Bordeaux beats Yaounde in real world node 
density. :-)

Re: Permalink with marker

2013-05-24T16:35:56

The developer's first mail introducing the project, which will answer all your question, was here :

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2013-January/065553.html

----- Mail original -----
From: "Dave F." <davefox< at >madasafish.com>
Cc: "Talk Openstreetmap" <talk< at >openstreetmap.org>
Date: Vendredi 24 Mai 2013 16:50:23
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Permalink with marker

On 24/05/2013 06:40, Christian Quest wrote:

This looks good. There a many items that don't appear to work at the 
moment, but if fixed will be an excellent resource. Are you the 
developer? Is it currently being developed? I have some 
queries/suggestions/bugs. Should I post them here?

Cheers
Dave F.

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Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Christoph Hormann — 2013-05-24T16:30:17

By the way you do realize that Cameroon and other equatorial areas have 
a significant advantage to higher latitudes in this measurement.  So it 
might be prudent to not only say 'FSVO mapped' but also 'FSVO densely'.  

In a quick estimate the area scale ratio between Cameroon and France is 
about 2 so it could be that Bordeaux beats Yaounde in real world node 
density. :-)

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

John F. Eldredge — 2013-05-24T16:24:05

I also am a programmer, and it helps to have feedback from the users when they find a bug or design flaw.

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Eugene Alvin Villar — 2013-05-24T16:21:12

Since the list provided ranks the metatiles in terms of the number of
nodes, It might be better to also normalize the number of nodes with the
area covered by the z16 metatile. A tile far from the equator covers more
area than a tile near the equator. For example, a z16 tile in Helsinki
covers around 4 times the area as a z16 tile in Singapore. If we normalize
the list, it would make the efforts of the Indonesian mappers much more
impressive.


On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Frederik Ramm <frederik< at >remote.org> wrote:

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Densely Mapped Areas

Sob Willy-Franck — 2013-05-24T15:37:40

Hi,


Ben and Pieren thank you for bringing some details already.

I just want to provide some information on the map of Yaounde.My graduation project is to implement a mapping portal of Cameroon, accessible to all based on OSM.

More than just a portal, the project aims to use OSM as urban management tools.

what is already done:
- From 2010 to 2012, I did some field missions (mainly in Yaoundé)
- July-August 2012 with a group of 4 students we educate local students on the osm  project 
- This year from March 11 to April 8, with the support of EUROSHA Cameroon, Cameroon OSM community has been launched.
- We conducted a conference and some training in JOSM
-
 I furrowed some streets of the capital and other cities in Cameroon 
(Limbe, Bertoua, Buea) with video system board (GPS + Camera). This 
permit direct measurement of the coordinates (x, y, z) on images with a 
centimeter accuracy.
- We have received permission to import some public data in OSM (forest roads, student projects) (http://wiki.openstreetm

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

Nick Whitelegg — 2013-05-24T15:26:28

+1. Amen to that ;-)

Nick

-----Toby Murray <toby.murray< at >gmail.com> wrote: -----
From: Toby Murray <toby.murray< at >gmail.com>
Date: 24/05/2013 04:07PM
Cc: OSM Talk <talk< at >openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Dave F. <davefox< at >madasafish.com> wrote:
               
     
On 24/05/2013 12:15, Nick Whitelegg       wrote:
          
         I don't regularly use iD myself (JOSM user), but, on behalf of         its developers: negative comments like this are unhelpful and         denigrate the vast amount of hard work that has gone into         producing the editor. If you don't like it, complain about it to         your friends in private, change the code, but do not slag it off         on a public mailing list!
          
     You think the developers are above criticism? A public forum is     *exactly* where they should be aired. The creators came here &     said "look what we've made, isn't it fantastic" & some of us     have pointed out tha

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Pieren — 2013-05-24T15:23:18


You should ask this person:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-April/001914.html

Pieren

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

Nick Whitelegg — 2013-05-24T15:24:15

To reply to both yours and Dave F's post in one, as I've got the same comment:

*Constructive* criticism is *absolutely fine*. No problem whatsoever to politely point out flaws and areas for improvement.

 I have issues, I am afraid, with disrespectful terms in criticism, and I've said this before. Terms like "a joke" IMO, I'm afraid, come across to me as rude. Polite and constructive criticism ("I believe that iD has a few flaws where the usability could be improved: these are (list)" is perfectly fine.

I just believe more respect is due to open-source developers, as a general point. People like the iD developers and others work hard in their own time, for no pay. I'm just asking for politeness, that's all. Not a veto of criticism.

Nick

-----"John F. Eldredge" <john< at >jfeldredge.com> wrote: -----
To: talk< at >openstreetmap.org
From: "John F. Eldredge" <john< at >jfeldredge.com>
Date: 24/05/2013 02:34PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

                   
On 05/24/2013 06:15 AM, Nick Whitel

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

AJ Ashton — 2013-05-24T15:08:24

They shouldn't be, but there's no need to criticize the developers for
what's going on here. The problems with iD so far aren't fundamental fatal
flaws, but simply bugs or missing features that everyone agrees should be
fixed (and work is underway).


arrogant. Developers should not be put on pedestals.

The iD developers are not saying that. They are saying "help us fix these
issues with detailed bug reports and constructive discussions." A
descriptive report on the issue tracker is *infinitely more* productive
than inflammatory comments here.

If you look at the iD issue tracker, you'll see the developers have done a
wonderful job fixing bugs that get reported. They have consistently kept
the closed-open ratio of issues at about 10:1 or better throughout
development (and we're currently coming up on 1400 closed issues). Compared
to the average free software project this is pretty amazing. So pedestals,
no. But I do think that deserves some applause.

putting in time & effort for the good of the project.

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

Toby Murray — 2013-05-24T15:02:03


There is a difference between constructive criticism and "This is the worst
thing ever!" which is both unhelpful and objectively false.

Toby
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Re: Permalink with marker

Dave F. — 2013-05-24T14:50:23

This looks good. There a many items that don't appear to work at the 
moment, but if fixed will be an excellent resource. Are you the 
developer? Is it currently being developed? I have some 
queries/suggestions/bugs. Should I post them here?

Cheers
Dave F.

Re: List: Densely Mapped Areas

Dave F. — 2013-05-24T14:43:18

OK, so anyone know if this Cameroon area is actually imported? It seems 
surprising for them to have done a survey of every tree.

Dave F.

Re: iD Editor live on OpenStreetMap

Dave F. — 2013-05-24T14:33:07

You think the developers are above criticism? A public forum is 
*exactly* where they should be aired. The creators came here & said 
"look what we've made, isn't it fantastic" & some of us have pointed out 
that, actually, no it isn't that good. For them to say "OK, we've made a 
mistake, why don't you fix it?" is arrogant. Developers should not be 
put on pedestals.

As has been pointed out there's a few reasons why it not good enough to 
be the default editor. Another being it's lack of relation information 
which will lead to them being split/deleted. There needs to be, at 
least, some kind of warning note that a selected way contains a relation.
The panning/background refresh speed has improved slightly in Firefox, 
but not sure if that's Id's or FF's doing.

I think it needs pointing out, yet again, that we are all volunteers, 
all putting in time & effort for the good of the project.

Dave F.

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