gmane.os.netbsd.ports.sun2

Re: Quick procedure to run NetBSD/sun2 on TME

Izumi Tsutsui — 2010-02-20T11:03:58

Hi,

5.0.2 has been released, so I've also updated the following
pre-built disk image to 5.0.2.


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Izumi Tsutsui

Quick procedure to run NetBSD/sun2 on TME

Izumi Tsutsui — 2009-11-14T18:17:05

I've created a pre-built disk image of 5.0.1 for TME, so
the following quick procedure can make you yet another
NetBSD/sun2 user...

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Quick procedure to run NetBSD/sun2 5.0.1 on TME:

1. install tme package

% setenv PKG_PATH http://nyftp.NetBSD.org/pub/pkgsrc/packages/NetBSD/`uname -m`/5.0/All
% su
# pkg_add -v tme
# exit
% rehash

2. fetch ROM image

% ftp http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/sun2-multi-rev-R.bin

3. fetch prebuilt disk image

% ftp http://ftp.NetBSD.org/pub/NetBSD/arch/sun2/tme/my-sun2-disk.img.gz
  (Please use appropriate mirrors)
% gunzip my-sun2-disk.img

See mkimg-sun2.sh how to create image from scratch.

4. prepare config files

% tme-sun-idprom 2/120 8:0:20:0:0:1 > my-sun2-idprom.bin
% cp /usr/pkg/share/examples/tme/sun-keyboards.txt .
% cp /usr/pkg/share/examples/tme/my-sun-macros.txt .
% cp /usr/pkg/share/examples/tme/SUN2-MULTIBUS .
% echo command mainbus0 power up >> SUN2-MULTIBUS
  (you can also edit SUN2-MULTIBUS directly instead)

5. exec tme

% setenv LTDL_LIBRARY_PATH /usr/pkg/lib
% tmesh SUN2-MULTIBUS

Have fun!

6. more details (network settings etc.)

See TME homepage:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/index.html
http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/sun2-120-nbsd.html

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Izumi Tsutsui

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Izumi Tsutsui — 2009-11-13T10:33:06


Probably you should read whole messages you quoted.

There is at least one hobby user on sun2 port.
He noticed NetBSD/sun2 3.0 worked fine even on multiuser,
but also found PAM support on static environment was broken.
Then he filed a PR about it, a developer fixed it, and
the fix was pulled up to netbsd-3 and netbsd-3-0.
He also fixed an m68k soft-float related gcc4 bug and
also fixed many Makefile bugs on static environment.
He also provided CAS routines for m68010 (no real CAS
instruction on it) based on existing implementation,
that could be a showstoppwer after vmlocking merge.
He also found another minor gcc bugs caused by -O1
which also occurs on i386 and put a workaround during 5.0_RC.
He can still test a GENERIC kernel even on the emulator.
Daily builds against sun2 still found a number of MI bugs
which only appearred on a certain (but not sun2 specific)
environment.


Now, "what causes your headaches on sun2 port?"
Broken build caused by non-sun2 specific bugs?
Or one paranoiac user? ;-p

On the other hand, I don't object if we will move daily builds
for such tier 2 or 3 ports to weekly (or biweekly) build servers.


BTW, max. RAM is 7MB. (some spaces are reserved for framebuffer)

Actually it also has only 16MB virtual space, so even
modern fat gcc4 won't work on it, but all default programs
invoked from rc.d (including postfix) seem working.
IMO it might still be worth that we can demonstrate
"of course it runs NetBSD" anywhere on the TME emulator
on modern hardware, unless maintenance costs for the port
won't become so expensive than the benefit.
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Izumi Tsutsui

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

James Birdsall — 2009-11-13T07:20:17

I have an operational 2/120 with NetBSD 4.0 loaded on it. Once upon a 
time, this machine was the authoritative website for the Sun Hardware 
Reference, back when I was still working on the SHR. The machine could 
still do that, but now that I'm in an apartment I can't justify the 
power/heat/noise load of running a 2/120 versus what it can do.

I'm thinking of giving it and the 2/50 (VME-based, not supported by 
NetBSD at all) away. The 2/120 is never going back into service -- I can 
still find a production use for a Sun-3, but not a -2 -- and the 2/50 
doesn't have a current OS it can run; they belong in a museum somewhere, 
or a real collection, not moldering in my closet.

Can the 68010 support PIC?

--James Birdsall

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

John Nemeth — 2009-11-13T05:11:50

} On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 05:57:54PM -0800, John Nemeth wrote:
}  >      Even if it does run, is it useful?  Is there any real hardware
}  > left that functions?  According to Wikipedia max. RAM was 8 MB.  Is
}  > that useful for running modern NetBSD and semi-modern apps?
} 
} Given that a sun2 kernel should be relatively small, it's enough for
} e.g. a mail server, firewall, or any of the other things people do
} with small old machines.

     Maybe a small internal mail server.  If it has direct connectivity
to the Internet, the spammers will kill it.  These days, any mail
server facing the Internet, must be able to handle a fairly large load,
have anti-spam, and anti-virus.  This stuff all takes processing
power.

     It might be able to work as a low speed firewall, but it would
gobble up a huge amount of power compared to say a Soekris.

} However, that assumes one still exists somewhere.
} 
}  >      I would add that it must support PIC.  The lack of PIC support is
}  > a major pain in the neck for many things.  Especially in light of the
}  > extremely limited amount of memory it can take.
} 
} What's different between it and other m68k ports? I've never seen a
} clear explanation.

     No idea.

}-- End of excerpt from David Holland

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Christos Zoulas — 2009-11-12T23:15:34

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Izumi Tsutsui — 2009-11-12T22:29:45

What's your point? "All or nothing" again?
In your point of view, it's also cool kmodule not build on evbppc.
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Izumi Tsutsui

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Antti Kantee — 2009-11-12T22:25:08

Yes, I'm very much in favor of that.  This was supposed to be the obvious
first step (i.e. remove ports that we thought had no users).

Don't take this personally.  sun2 just seemed like a non-brainer ;)

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Izumi Tsutsui — 2009-11-12T22:21:21

Why only sun2?
What about rs6000, for example?
(no working device other than com console)

There is a lot of port which don't have release note.
(though I wrote notes for some ports which won't be refered by anyone)
On more ports install notes are not updated properly.

Probably we should introduce "tier"ing ports as suggested several times,
rather than "best or nothing" that we always prefer.


I don't think not so many m68000 specific part.
Most MI API with MD implementation could be covered by m68k ones.
(no sys/arch/m68000 directory)
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Izumi Tsutsui

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Antti Kantee — 2009-11-12T22:11:05

Looking at the failure, I find it a little hard to believe it was
ever fixed.  Seems like the problem is that LDADD+= and LDADD.foo+=
doesn't preserve Makefile order.

Also, it's cool how the messenger is shot with things like ipv6
not working on sun2.

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Izumi Tsutsui — 2009-11-12T22:04:35

http://releng.NetBSD.org/builds/HEAD/200911100000Z/sun2.build.failed

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Izumi Tsutsui

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Antti Kantee — 2009-11-12T21:52:31

sparc has users (well, at least one: me).  Honestly speaking, you are
the only sun2 user I've heard of, and I did try asking around before
posting the email.

Theoretically speaking, if it came down to removing sparc, I'd just use an
older release of NetBSD instead of stepping up as maintainer, but in this
project everyone is of course free to spend their time as they choose.


No, but usable state is.  As the story goes, a certain person made an
effort to get sun2 to build (and said he succeeded), but he ever got
around to making it work in the emulator.  We did not have any data on
if sun2 actually worked.


The point is to have someone step up and maintain the port.  If you're
going to maintain it just on paper, we might as well give up now.
People I've spoken to aren't very interested in editing sun2 release
notes, requiring the occasional edits to keep up with MACHINE_ARCH
changes etc.  If someone wants to keep it up to speed with MI changes,
I'm sure nobody will mind having sun2 around.

Re: sun2 and playstation2 ports to be moved into Attic

Izumi Tsutsui — 2009-11-12T21:36:31

sparc has own MACHINE_ARCH and no portmaster.
What do you think about it?

My point is buildable state can't be a reason for removal,
and in sun2 case I don't think it's MACHINE_ARCH specific.


If you really think it's worth to assign a pseudo portmaster
just for a placeholder like other many ports, please do.

I don't object about playstation2. toolchain issue won't be resolved.
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Izumi Tsutsui