gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation.switzerland

WCA - Telco 16. Juni 2013 (english)

Manuel Schneider — 2013-06-17T19:06:26

Dear all,

a short report from the Wikimedia Chapters Association, yesterday we had
a phone conference.
Participants and minutes can be found on Meta:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-24

Here a short summary:

== Working Groups ==
The WCA has some working groups which are quite active around events
(offline meetings) but suffer from a lack of active participants during
the year. This is currently true for all working groups:

=== Chapters Manual ===
* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA_Chapters_Manual

=== Chapters Exchange ===
Chapters exchange services / help.

*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Chapters_Exchange

=== Peer Review ===
So far Wikimedia Estonia and Wikimedia Austria have been reviewed.
Reports are still due.

In Hong Kong there should be a workshop on peer review but Fæ won't be
there, so we are looking for a replacement.

* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Peer_review

=== WCA Journal ===
Something like an "international Signpost" for Wikimedians. Chapters are
asked to remember the Journal when they write their monthly reports, so
they can publish some relevant thinks there as well.

* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Journal

== Current Issues ==
=== Trademarks ===
The Wikimedia Foundation wants to restructure their trademarks and the
right of use of those. This will affect all chapters. According the
Chapters Agreement they have a limited right to use the name Wikimedia,
the Wikimedia-Logos as well as the Wikimedia project names and logos.
This is subject to change in the future. At the moment there is a public
discussion about the "Trademark Practice" in which everyone is asked to
step in and get involved:

* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trademark_practices_discussion

We have evidence, that the WMF has plans to withdraw the usage rights of
all Wikimedia trademarks from the chapters. Therefore it is important to
engage in this discussion as its result will the basis for further steps
by the WMF.

=== Wikimania Hong Kong - Chapters Village ===
On initiative of Wikimedia CH and Wikimedia Germany there will be a
Chapters Village at Wikimania. A place where the chapters present
themselves and where workshops can be given.
We are looking for ideas and people.

A suggestion by me: Offering short workshops, prepare a schedule in
advance (eg. two workshops per day) with simple topics which have a
practical impact but need little preparation:
* press accreditions - how to do
* writing monthly reports - best practices
* the process of an FDC request
...
Please enlist yourself:
* http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_Village

=== Board Elections WMF ===
Another call to everyone to vote in the current board elections. The WCA
wants to stay neutral and doesn't give recommendations.
There is a Question / Answer page though which is helpful to take a
decision:
*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/Board_elections/2013/Questions

== WCA intern ==
=== Changes to the Charta ===
The WCA is in fact not only for Wikimedia Chapters but also for all
other Wikimedia organisations - "Thematic Organisations", user groups,
short: Wikimedia Affiliates. Therefore it was suggested to change the
name of the WCA accordingly.
Proposed is "Associations of Wikimedia Organisations" (AWiO or AWikiO).
*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/12._Change_of_name

There was also a suggestion to an article to the charta, allowing
temporary substitutes for council members. This wants to fix a problem
we had in Milan at the Wikimedia Conference, when a council member
couldn't attend a WCA meeting and sent another board member instead.

These changes are proposed resolutions on Meta and need to be approved
by 2/3 of the council members:
*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/13._Substitute_council_members

=== Regularity of the WCA Calls ===
To give more structure to the work in the WCA - and by that maybe even
improve the lack of participants in the working groups as mentioned
above, by offering a better working environment - I have suggested to
have regular phone conferences every four weeks. In the past it took too
long to find out that we need to have another call, prepare a Doodle
poll and decide a date.

The chair, Markus Glaser, has in preperation to this call already asked
for the general availability within a week when participants would be
available on a regular basis. The poll didn't indicate a time that fits
everyone but several best times which we will now iterate through.
That way we will now have WCA calls all four weeks but in a manner to
cope with the different timezones and to please all participants in some
way. I will try to participate whenever possible.
* http://www.doodle.com/rivb9t5ip92d4imw#table

/Manuel

WCA - Telco 16. Juni 2013

Manuel Schneider — 2013-06-17T18:41:02

Hallo zusammen,

ein kurzer Bericht von der Wikimedia Chapters Association (noch!),
gestern fand eine Telefonkonferenz statt.
Teilnehmer und Protokoll finden sich auf Meta:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Meetings/2013-24

Hier eine kurze Zusammenfassung:

== Arbeitsgruppen ==
Es gibt in der WCA ein paar Arbeitsgruppen die rund um Veranstaltungen
(Offline-Treffen) recht aktiv sind, allerdings ansonsten unter zuwenig
Mitarbeit leiden. Das betrifft derzeit alle Arbeitsgruppen:

=== Chapters Handbuch ===
* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA_Chapters_Manual

=== Chapters Exchange ===
Vereine tauschen Dienstleistungen / Hilfe aus.

*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Chapters_Exchange

=== Peer Review ===
Bislang auditiert wurden Wikimedia Estland und Wikimedia Österreich,
Berichte darüber stehen aber noch aus.

Fæ erwähnte, dass das Review von WMAT wohl "excellent" verlaufen sei. In
Hong Kong soll es einen Workshop über Peer Review geben, allerdings wird
Fæ nicht dort sein, Ersatz wird gesucht. Claudia wird vermutlich
angesprochen werden.

* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Peer_review

=== WCA Journal ===
Eine Art "internationaler Kurier" für Wikimedianer. Es wurde gebeten,
dass die Vereine bei ihren Monatsberichten daran denken sollen, ggf.
auch interessante Aspekte davon in das Journal zu übertragen.

* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Journal

== Aktuelles ==
=== Markenrechte ===
Die Wikimedia Foundation will die Markenrechte bzw. deren Nutzungsrechte
neu ordnen. Das betrifft vorallem die Vereine. Gemäss Chapter-Vertrag
haben diese eingeschränkte Nutzungsrechte des Namens Wikimedia, des
Wikimedia-Logos sowie der Wikimedia-Projektnamen und -Logos.
Das soll sich in Zukunft ändern. Derzeit läuft eine Konsultation zur
"Trademark Practice" bei der alle aufgerufen sind sich zu beteiligen:

* http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trademark_practices_discussion

Es liegen uns noch interne, aber zuverlässige Informationen vor, dass
die WMF plant den Chaptern weitgehend alle Nutzungsrechte sämtlicher
Wikimedia-Marken zu entziehen. Daher ist es wichtig, sich an der
Diskussion zu beteiligen, denn deren Ausgang wird die Grundlage weiterer
Schritte seitens der WMF sein.

=== Wikimania Hong Kong - Chapters Village ===
Auf Initiative von Wikimedia CH und Wikimedia Deutschland wird es an der
Wikimania ein Chapters Village geben, einen Ort, an dem die Vereine sich
präsentieren und Workshops abhalten können.
Ideen und Personal werden gesucht.

Vorschlag von mir: Kurzworkshops anbieten, Zeitplan vorab festlegen (zB.
zwei Workshops / Tag) mit einfachen Themen die praktische Tipps
weitergeben, aber wenig Vorbereitung benötigen:
* Presseakkreditierungen - wie geht das
* Monatsberichte schreiben - beste Vorgehensweisen
* Ablauf eines FDC-Antrages
...
Bitte eintragen:
* http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapters_Village

=== Vorstandswahlen WMF ===
Nochmals einen Aufruf an alle, sich an der Wahl zu beteiligen. Die WCA
will neutral bleiben und spricht keine Empfehlungen aus.
Es gibt aber eine Fragen / Antwort-Seite die hilfreich bei der
Entscheidung ist:

*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/Board_elections/2013/Questions

== WCA intern ==
=== Änderungen der Charta ===
Die WCA ist eigentlich nicht nur für Wikimedia-Chapters, sondern auch
für die anderen Wikimedia-Vereine - "Thematic Organisations", User
Groups, kurz: Wikimedia Affiliates - da. Entsprechend wird angeregt die
Charta der WCA als auch ihren Namen zu ändern.
Vorgeschlagen wurde "Associations of Wikimedia Organisations" (AWiO oder
AWikiO).
*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/12._Change_of_name

Ausserdem wurde ein neuer Artikel für die Charta vorgeschlagen, um
temporäre Wechsel der Ratsmitglieder zu ermöglichen. Damit möchte man
ein Problem beheben, welches es in Mailand an der Wikimedia Conference
gab, als ein Ratsmitglied verhindert war und kurzfristig einen
Vorstandskollegen in die WCA-Sitzung geschickt hat.

Die Änderungen stehen als Resolutionen auf Meta und müssen per
Umlaufbeschluss von 2/3 der Ratsmitgliedern genehmigt oder abgelehnt werden.
*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Resolutions/13._Substitute_council_members

=== Regelmässigkeit der WCA-Telcos ===
Um der Arbeit in der WCA mehr Struktur zu geben - und ggf. auch die og.
Kapazitätsprobleme etwas zu entspannen, indem man die Leute eher zur
Mitarbeit motiviert und nicht aus dem Blick verliert - habe ich
angeregt, dass die Telcos regelmässig alle vier Wochen an einem festen
Termin abgehalten werden. Bislang hat es immer zu lange gedauert bis man
festgestellt hat, dass man wieder eine Telco haben sollte, bis eine
Terminumfrage erstellt und schlussendlich ein Termin gefunden worden war.

Der Vorsitzende, Markus Glaser, hat im Vorfeld dieser Telco bereits
allgemeine Termine abgefragt an denen die Teilnehmer regelmässig Zeit
hätten. Da die Umfrage keinen besten Termin ergab, werden die mehrere
besten Termine nun zirkuliert. Damit kann ein vierwöchiges Intervall
eingeführt und man trotzdem den unterschiedlichen Zeitzonen und
-Planungen der Teilnehmer gerecht werden. Ich werde versuchen wann immer
möglich teilzunehmen.
* http://www.doodle.com/rivb9t5ip92d4imw#table

/Mmanuel

Wikimedia foundation 2013 Election

Charles Andrès — 2013-06-17T12:57:15

Dear Wikimedians in Switzerland!

==FR==

Depuis le 8 juin et jusqu'au 22 juin se tiennent trois élections importantes pour le mouvement Wikimedia. Les membres de la communauté Wikimedia ont l’opportunité d’élire des candidat(e)s pour trois types de postes :

• Trois candidat(e)s au conseil d’administration pour un mandat de deux ans qui prendra fin en 2015. Le conseil d’administration est la plus haute autorité dirigeante de la Fondation Wikimedia, une organisation à but non lucratif enregistrée selon le statut 501(c)(3) aux États-Unis. La Fondation Wikimedia gère de nombreux projets tels que Wikipédia et Commons.
• Deux candidat(e)s au Comité de répartition des fonds du conseil pour un mandat de deux ans.
• Un(e) candidat(e) comme médiateur du comité de répartition des fonds pour un mandat de deux ans.

Ces élections sont généralement fortement influencées par les communautés anglophones, il est important de faire aussi entendre la voix des autres communautés linguistiques.

Le mouvement wikimedia souffre de plus en plus de cet anglo-centrisme, il n'est pas encore trop tard pour rappeler à la Fondation que la richesse et le succès des projets Wikimedia vient de la diversité de ses communautés.

==DE==

Die Wikimedia-Foundation-Wahlen 2013 finden vom 8. bis 22. Juni 2013 statt. Mitglieder der Wikimedia-Gemeinschaft haben die Möglichkeit, Kandidaten für diese drei Positionen zu wählen:
• Drei Kandidaten für das Kuratorium mit einer Amtszeit von 2 Jahren, die 2015 ausläuft. Das Kuratorium ist die oberste Kontrollinstanz der Wikimedia Foundation, einer in den Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika angemeldeten gemeinnützigen Organisation. Die Wikimedia Foundation verwaltet viele verschiedene Projekte wie Wikipedia und Wikimedia Commons.
• Zwei Kandidaten für das Funds Dissemination Committee („Finanzverteilungskomitee“) des Kuratoriums mit zweijähriger Amtszeit.
• Einen Kandidaten als Ombudsman des Funds Dissemination Committees mit zweijähriger Amtszeit.

Diese Wahlen werden normalerweise stark durch die englischsprachige Community beeinflusst. Daher ist es wichtig sicherzustellen, dass alle Sprachgemeinschaften erhört werden.

Die Wikimedia Bewegung leidet mehr und mehr unter der starken Zentralisierung auf die englischsprachige Gemeinschaft, doch ist es nicht zu spät, die Wikimedia Foundation daran zu erinnern, dass der Erfolg der Wikimedia Projekte aus der Diversität ihrer Community resultiert.

==IT==

Le elezioni 2013 della Wikimedia Foundation si terranno nei giorni 8-22 giugno 2013. I membri della comunità Wikimedia avranno l'opportunità di eleggere i candidati a tre posizioni:
• Tre candidati al Consiglio della Fondazione (Board of Trustees) per un mandato di due anni, che scadrà nel 2015. Il Consiglio della Fondazione è l'autorità suprema di governo della Wikimedia Foundation, un'organizzazione no-profit con sede negli Stati Uniti. La Wikimedia Foundation gestisce diversi progetti come Wikipedia e Commons.
• Due candidati per il Comitato Distribuzione Fondi (Funds Dissemination Committee) per un mandato di due anni.
• Un candidato come Difensore Civico (Ombudsperson) del Comitato Diffusione Fondi per un mandato di due anni.

Queste elezioni sono in genere gestite dalle comunità in lingua inglese, ma è importante che altre comunità linguistiche siano ascoltate.

Il movimento Wikimedia sta soffrendo molta centralizzazione delle comunità in inglese, non è molto tardi per fare in modo che la Foundation comprenda che il successo dei progetti Wikimedia deriva anche dalla diversità delle sue comunità.

Board elections
Introduction and rules
Candidate presentations
Questions
Results
Discuss
FDC elections
Introduction and rules
Candidate presentations
Questions
Results
Discuss
FDC Ombudsperson elections
Introduction and rules
Candidate presentations
Questions
Results
Discuss

Charles

___________________________________________________________
Charles ANDRES, Chairman
"Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
www.wikimedia.ch
Office +41 (0)21 340 66 20
Skype: charles.andres.wmch
IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch

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PR - Wikipédia in jail

Chantal Ebongué — 2013-06-17T12:24:09

Wikipedia for prisoners  an unexpected partnership between a swiss prison
and Wikimedia CH

Since March 2013, prisoners who request can have an access to Wikipedia
offline (Kiwix project <http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Main_Page> ). The idea is
to stimulate or to support the interest for education of prisoners who were,
for a large majority, condemned to long-time sentences.

 

After three months of pilot phasis, the project is successful : Among the 36
prisoners of the Bellevues prison in Gorgier, 18 possess or rent a
computer. All of them requested the upload of Wikipedia offline on their PC.
For security reasons, swiss prisoners have a very restricted access to
internet.

 

More informations in the attached press releases, that was sent today to the
swiss media (ENG, DE, FR, IT)

 

Regards,

 

 

Chantal Ebongué 

Wikimedia CH -  <http://www.wikimedia.ch/> www.wikimedia.ch

Escaliers-du-Marché 2 - 1003 Lausanne - Switzerland  

Office +41 (0)21 340 66 20 - cell phone +41 (0)78 744 21 82

Skype : chantal.ebongue -  <mailto:chantal.ebongue< at >wikimedia.ch>
chantal.ebongue< at >wikimedia.ch

 

 

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Manuel Schneider — 2013-06-11T11:51:06

Dear all,

just a few words. I won't engage in this discussion but I am reading it
all. Thanks for bringing up the topic, I hope it makes people more aware
of their responsibilities towards the data they handle and I am thankful
that through this discussion we found the one case where staff mails
were redirected, this has been fixed in the meantime (that person got
his mail address many years before as a volunteer, so I didn't notice
earlier).

There are some best practices in IT administration which I am following
and which have a sane cost-benefit ratio.

There is no difference in the kind of data we handle, it all gets the
same protection. I am aware that this is never a 100% perfect protection
but quite good depending our investment of money and effort. Hartwig is
also right sying that this will not save us from a government to spy on us.
As we have our own servers and there is plenty of cool open source
software around for all kind of problems I am using this wherever
possible. Also natural we are using enycryption (HTTPS, IMAPS etc.)
where applicable and we control access granularly, allowing people to
access the server but only in areas needed, isolating each website and
each database with its own accounts and system groups.

Am 11.06.2013 09:12, schrieb Emmanuel Engelhart:

The wiki should only be used to store files that won't change very
often. Policies or forms for instance, which are created once and
downloaded many times.

For an exchange of file use our file service via webDAV:

https://members.wikimedia.ch/Tine_Manual

It has a dedicated space for projects everyone who has a WMCH mail
account can access.

/Manuel

Wikimedia CH is hiring two new staff

Chantal Ebongué — 2013-06-11T09:05:45

Dear all,

 

We are looking for two new staff members :

 

1.       Chief Administrative Officer, 80-100 %, since 1.9.2013

2.       Chief Scientific Officer, 80-100 %, since 1.9.2013

 

Ads are attached, and are also published on www.wikimedia.ch , www.jobs.ch
and www.linkedin.com

 

Applications (or request for information) can be send to me or to
info< at >wikimedia.ch

 

Please inform you network !

 

Regards

 

Chantal Ebongué, CAO

Wikimedia CH -  <http://www.wikimedia.ch/> www.wikimedia.ch

Escaliers-du-Marché 2 - 1003 Lausanne - Switzerland  

Office +41 (0)21 340 66 20 - cell phone +41 (0)78 744 21 82

Skype : chantal.ebongue - chantal.ebongue< at >wikimedia.ch

 

 

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Ilario Valdelli — 2013-06-11T11:32:33

I take care because I protect my email with a good password, no one has
access to my mailbox and I don't distribute to the mailing lists the mails
addressed directly to me.

Any other question of security is not in my hands.

What I am saying is that I have several other emails and if someone would
write me keeping their emails within Switzerland, it's sufficient to ask me
which is my "private" email.

regards


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Emmanuel Engelhart <
emmanuel.engelhart< at >wikimedia.ch> wrote:

Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-11T10:37:51

Le 11/06/2013 12:28, Ilario Valdelli a écrit :

You obviously don't care about the privacy of email exchange: that's
unprofessional.

Emmanuel

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Ilario Valdelli — 2013-06-11T10:28:18

What is the meaning of "unprofessional"?

If someone writes me his own credit card number in his email, I can use the
maximum of my professionality to protect him for this specific case, but I
cannot be responsible for his privacy at all because he has a strange
behavior and he can send his credit card number to everyone with the same
level of attention.

In Wikipedia it's frequent that people uses mailing lists for some private
data, but few people understand that the mailing lists are *public*. So who
is unprofessional? The WMF's team or the people using the mailing lists?

How much people fight with Google ranking because they discover to have
wrote stupidity in Internet and at the first places there have their
stupidity? Should Google stops to rank websites to be "professional"?

The law is clear. The companies storing data should operate in good faith,
but the people should take care of their own data and where they store
their own data.

If you gives the keys of your home to the first person meets in the street,
you cannot say afterwards that someone has entered in your home without
your permission.

So, I would recommend you to don't speak about professionality.

Regards




On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart <
emmanuel.engelhart< at >wikimedia.ch> wrote:

Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-11T09:57:30

Le 11/06/2013 11:34, Ilario Valdelli a écrit :

This approach is unprofessional, you have to do the necessary to
keep/protect the privacy of your email exchanges.

If you don't care, it's your right ; but at least take in consideration
the privacy concern of people writing to you, to the association. So,
it's not about you, your feelings or convenience.

We have the chance to have an IT infrastructure providing powerful
alternatives, so use it! If you have some difficulties setting up an
email client with different mailboxes, I'm ready to help you.

Emmanuel

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Ilario Valdelli — 2013-06-11T09:34:44

Having managed for long time a huge mass of data of people, I would use a
Latin sentence: "Est modus in rebus"

To protect all data is a Sisiphus work, the same European law
differentiates between most critical data and they put several levels of
attention. The heath data, for instance, have a specific Swiss law to be
used and there is a stronger protection of them.

In the other hand the data like email address, phones, home address are
considered with a low level of priority.

Probably to protect us we should not use Ipad or Iphone or we should not
use free email account, the advantage to use gmail is that it is free, easy
to use and easy to configure in devices.

Every time we discover that our data are not protected in Internet it's
like to discover that green tee protects from cancer and we start to drink
liters of green tee but we definitively reach the maturity that we are full
of green tee and we start to disagree it. It would be better to drink green
tee but using the correct level.

So don't panic (and I am not speaking about this discussion but about those
happening in other wikimedia mailing lists).

I always used gmail for "innocent" content and always used some other
private emails for "reserved content" or to contact my family or my beloved
friends. My gmail's account is easy to reach, it's public and always
available because my goal is to be reachable, so everyone can use hangout
to contact me.

But in the other side I have never received critical data in my gmail. I
invite all people to write them in a specific OTRS queue in order to use
the protection that is present around it or to move in my private emails.

Basically I would say that the email is something that allows people to be
contacted easily and to be checked easily, but there is also the compromise
with the security and the protection of data.

The correct approach is in the middle.

Regards



On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Emmanuel Engelhart <
emmanuel.engelhart< at >wikimedia.ch> wrote:

Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-11T07:12:08

Le 10/06/2013 23:20, Frédéric Schütz a écrit :

The wiki works now pretty well and Manuel has increased the upload limit
to 32MB. IMO, this is the best place to store files which should be kept
for a long time.

Otherwise, for temporary usage, there are a few open source alternatives
which could be installed on our server to deliver a service similar to
dropbox (if the groupware doesn't already offer that):
http://hilalpost.com/fr/2013/01/24/alternatives-open-source-a-dropbox/

Regards
Emmanuel

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Hartwig Thomas — 2013-06-11T06:18:37

I understand. So the only "third parties" that receive data from the Swiss Chapter are the organizations that run the servers in the US and therefore the NSA, the CIA, etc.

Hartwig


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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Frédéric Schütz — 2013-06-10T21:20:33


Thanks to Manuel, we have a full set of services available "locally" (on 
the servers he hosts) -- and a privacy policy that has been tailored to 
our situation, too.

Some informal exchanges of files are still done using Dropbox; now is 
probably a good time to get rid of them.


Full disclosure: I am one of the people who have their < at >wikimedia.ch 
email forwarded; in my case, it goes to a Swiss provider (with servers 
located in Switzerland). Everybody's situation is different; for me, 
this is much better (for practical reasons) than a mailbox.

F.

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-10T18:22:47

Hi Manuel

Le 10/06/2013 19:53, Manuel Schneider a écrit :

Your approach of promoting mailboxes vs. redirects makes a lot of sense.
If we achieve to do that for staff/board, we are on the secure side.

Other email addresses are less critical... but we should keep a vigilant
eye on that, we are responsible for our data... also if that could
bother users.


Great!

Good evening
Emmanuel

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Manuel Schneider — 2013-06-10T17:53:42

Am 10.06.2013 19:31, schrieb Emmanuel Engelhart:

generally all users who have asked for a WMCH mail address are initially
offered an IMAP mailbox and I normally tell people why this is better
than a redirect - just out of practical reasons, put ideological / data
security aside.
Anyway, if it is the whish of the user to get his mail forwarded
instead, who am I to deny it?

Anything else - any restrictions - should be decided by the board.

Just as a summary what we are talking about, after a short look on the
mailserver:
* 6 redirects to gmail (Google) (1 staff)
* 1 redirect to Hotmail (Microsoft) (1 board)
* 2 swiss domains whose MX records point to swiss mailservers (both board)
* 5 addresses redirecting to the WMF

To be honest: I understand and agree with your scepticism towards
private data flowing through third parties which are bound to make
benefit with that data (Google and Hotmail are free, and not because the
are philantroph) even withing countries which are known to spy on their
citizens. Anyway I am not sure that even if we were sure that our data
is being spied at if it was valuable enough to force our volunteers to
abandon their primary mail accounts.

It is a different situation for the board, even though they are still
volunteers they do deal with sensitive data, but that should not
normally not be transfered via e-mail anyway.

For the staff it is clear: that can only be a mailbox. So in that one
case I am happy you made me aware of a problem. I will talk to that person.

For myself I try to adopt a sceptic but pragmatic approach: Sometimes I
use Google services but only where I have no good replacement (mainly
Google spreadsheets) and then only for a temporary usage. I don't want
to rely on it. I use it for a certain task, then I store the result
elsewhere. Otherwise I use these services - this applies to all kind of
Social Networks where we have the same scepticism for a different reason
- with data I really and deliberately want to publish. So that data
can't be "stolen" or misused anyway.


/Manuel

Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-10T17:31:19

Le 10/06/2013 18:23, Manuel Schneider a écrit :

Thank you very much for this detailed answer.

Congratulations for making WMCH infrastructure almost not depending of
these type of problematic services (not the same in all chapters).

The only point I see which could be improved is the forwarding to email
boxes at Google/Yahoo/Microsoft accounts.

I understand this is not under our direct control, but I think we should
try to avoid sending internal information to such type of accounts in
favour of companies/legislations which are more respectful of our data.

I propose to invite all concerned users to:
* create a WMCH mailbox for them
* change the target email address to something more acceptable like
email box from the provider or european web mails like GMX.

Would that be feasible?
Does something speaks against such type of restriction?

Kind regards
Emmanuel

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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Manuel Schneider — 2013-06-10T16:23:57

Hi Emmanuel,

I can only speak about the processes within WMCH which are know to me or
where I am part of.
So far these processes mainly use self-hosted IT ressources. On our four
server instances we run a variety of services:
* mail (SMTP/IMAP)
* webserver / content management systems / wikis
* shell / file access (ssh / sftp)
* videoconferencing
* groupware / calendars / address books / ActiveSync
* file server / webDAV storage
* backup server
The servers for this are technically and physically under full control
of WMCH (me as a member and contractor of WMCH) and located in a
datacentre in Germany which I am paying for space, access control,
power, a/c and bandwidth. Exceptions are the office and backup servers
which are virtual hosts located on a physical server in our Lausanne office.

External services regularly used are:
* phone / SIP lines via Swisscom
* internet connectivity via Swisscom
* mobile phones via Orange and Swisscom

Other external services we don't use as infrastructure:
* sometimes we use the WMF Etherpad for drafting text documents
* social networks - G+, Facebook, Twitter for publishing news
* some users of WMCH mail addresses redirect their mail to external
services not under our control

There might be processes which I am not aware of which make use of
external platforms.

/Manuel

Am 10.06.2013 11:42, schrieb Emmanuel Engelhart:

Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-10T12:57:27

Le 10/06/2013 14:41, Hartwig Thomas a écrit :

My request is specifically targeted to WMCH, our swiss chapter, not to
any other entity of our movement.

Emmanuel



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Re: Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Hartwig Thomas — 2013-06-10T12:41:41

I believe that such a "precise list" is an illusion.

The servers as well as the legal bodies are in the US and thus are subject to US law.
Therefore the operators of these servers will do anything the law requires them to do, just as an operator ("provider") in Switzerland would have to follow the Swiss laws (BÜPF, Nachrichtendienst-Gesetz, ...). The US law does not - like the Swiss or European privacy laws - require these operators to reveal to the person whose data are stored, how they are used or to whom they are given. Quite the contrary some of these US laws require the operators to keep this kind of information secret. It is unreasonable to believe, that Wikimedia Foundation would break such US laws, just because some Europeans have a different idea of privacy.

Besides the Internet technology is "open". So the operators of these "cloud" servers have absolutely no control over the path any TCP/IP package takes between here and their server. So even if they did give us a "precise list", it would be worth nothing, because the eavesdropping can take place one step removed from these servers.

So if you want European style privacy - and if you believe in its honest reinforcement in Europe or in Switzerland - then you should not store your data on a server in the US or encrypt it. If, however, the data are public anyway, as is the case with most Wikimedia content, then this kind of privacy is not a concern. The main risk I see in this more realistic scenario, is that the US government might "arrest" such data and delete them or make them otherwise inaccessible. Therefore it is certainly useful, if the publicdomainproject keeps a copy of its data on Wikimedia Commons on some European server as a backup.

Hartwig

-----Original Message-----
From: wikimediach-l-bounces< at >lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediach-l-bounces< at >lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Engelhart
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 11:42 AM
To: Mailing list for Wikimedia CH
Subject: [Wikimediach-l] Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Hi

The last PRISM scandal show us again how the american governement and
web companies don't care about our private data:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29

On the other side, our members deserve a total privacy regarding their data.

So, my question is pretty simple and for Manuel, who is certainly the
only one with the right overview: Which precise usage does the
association internally do of (American) cloud solutions (Facebook,
Twitter, Google, Dropbox, Skype...)?

Setting-up a precise list of services with use cases would be IMO
extremely useful to evaluate our current dependance.

Regards
Emmanuel


_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l

Do we use (american) cloud solutions at WMCH Q

Emmanuel Engelhart — 2013-06-10T09:42:28

Hi

The last PRISM scandal show us again how the american governement and
web companies don't care about our private data:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29

On the other side, our members deserve a total privacy regarding their data.

So, my question is pretty simple and for Manuel, who is certainly the
only one with the right overview: Which precise usage does the
association internally do of (American) cloud solutions (Facebook,
Twitter, Google, Dropbox, Skype...)?

Setting-up a precise list of services with use cases would be IMO
extremely useful to evaluate our current dependance.

Regards
Emmanuel


_______________________________________________
http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
Wikimediach-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l