gmane.org.spi.general
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general
hourly11901-01-01T00:00+00:00Gmanehttp://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png
http://gmane.org
Re: FFmpeg as SPI associated project
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1181
<pre>
Hi Ian. Since the resolution is only binding on SPI I read it with that
limitation in mind (the wording comes from the template). Ie we aren't
asserting that Stefano is an authoritative decision maker in an absolute
sense but that he is the authoritative decision maker as far as SPI is
concerned. Having said that, IANAL.
Associated projects have a variety of internal governance structures but
present a well defined interface to SPI.
I'm not sure if you read the entire application but FFmpeg specify that
they will have a 7 day review period of any reimbursement request on the
ffmpeg-devel< at >ffmpeg.org list. By the time SPI receives the request it has
passed through the 7 day review period and has not been vetoed by the
project maintainer (currently Michael Niedermayer).
[SNIP suggestion for revised wording for brevity]
Resolution 2004-08-10.iwj.1 already grants SPI the ability to act if
project governance has broken down:
"If a Project's internal organization or procedures are unclear or
disputed, SPI will deal with the situation as fairly as possible; if
possible SPI will act according to the decisions or rough consensus of the
Project's participants or in case of doubt that of the whole Community."
I realise you know this resolution well, having originally submitted it.
Well I think FFmpeg set up the structure that SPI requires of all
associated projects, a post of "project liaison" and a process to
determine successors to the current project liaison.
I still think the existing wording is correct but I have no problem
revising the proposal if necessary. Let's see what Stefano and the rest
of the community say on this. There is plenty of time before the next
board meeting for a discussion.
Cheers,
Rob
</pre>Robert Brockway2012-05-24T22:29:11Re: FFmpeg as SPI associated project
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1180
<pre>Robert Brockway writes ("FFmpeg as SPI associated project"):
...
I don't think this is correct.
I went to look at the ffpmeg-devel list
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2012-May/thread.html
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2012-May/124311.html
and Stefano is not the project's autocrat, which is what
"authoritative decision maker" would mean to me.
(NB I'm not accusing Stefano of some kind of power grab, or anything.
But we should get this right and one of the reasons for writing this
stuff down now is so that we have something to refer to in the future
if there should be any kind of argument.)
Given what I understand to be the internal processes in FFmpeg I would
prefer to see something like this:
Stefano Sabatini is recognised by SPI as the current liason for
FFmpeg. SPI expects him to inform us of decisions relating to SPI
made by the FFmpeg project, and we will honour his requests in
accordance with the Framework for Associated Projects.
However FFmpeg does not currently have a formal governance
structure. Therefore in case of significant dispute, SPI will
follow what appears to the SPI Board to be the rough consensus
view of the FFmpeg project committers.
The effect would be the same for routine transactions, but it makes it
clear that if there is some kind of dispute or split within FFmpeg,
the SPI Board will ultimately make the decision about what appears to
be the rough consensus view of the FFmpeg project.
That avoids the FFmpeg project having to invent a formal governance
structure just for its dealings with SPI. I would rather not force
associated projects down that path unless they want it for themselves.
Rather I would like SPI to be able to reuse whatever understandings
about governance already exist - even if that means that occasionally
the SPI Board might end up having to make a tricky decision rather
than just following the letter of some rules.
The exact phrase "rough consensus view of the FFmpeg project
committers" is the key point here and seems to me to be the closest
thing to a governing body in FFmpeg. If I am mistaken then please
correct me.
Stefano, does this seem right to you ?
Ian.
</pre>Ian Jackson2012-05-24T17:56:02FFmpeg as SPI associated project
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1179
<pre>Hi all. FFmpeg has applied to become an SPI Associated project. Comments
and questions are welcome.
I support and am sponsoring this application because:
* FFmpeg is a genuine Free Software community project:
FFmpeg is released under the GPL or LGPL licenses depending on
the choice of configuration options.
* FFmpeg has an established development community and history of software
releases.
The initial release of FFmpeg was in December 2000 and the project
continues to be actively developed.
* FFmpeg is used by a broad audience:
FFmpeg is widely used on Linux, Microsoft Windows and many other operating
systems both as a standalone tool and as part of other applications.
The resolution below is proposed to be submitted to the June 14 board
meeting:
SPI resolution 2012-05-25.rtb.1
WHEREAS
1. FFmpeg is a substantial and significant Free Software project.
2. The FFmpeg developers would like SPI's support and assistance,
including taking Donations, Holding Funds and legal assistance.
THE SPI BOARD RESOLVES THAT
3. FFmpeg is formally invited to become an SPI Associated Project,
according to the SPI Framework for Associated Projects, SPI Resolution
1998-11-16.iwj.1-amended-2004-08-10.iwj.1, a copy of which can be found
at http://www.spi-inc.org/corporate/resolutions/2004/2004-08-10.iwj.1/
4. Stefano Sabatini is recognised by SPI as the authoritative decision
maker and SPI liaison for FFmpeg. Successors will be appointed
following a concensus on the ffmpeg-devel< at >ffmpeg.org mailing list. If
a concensus cannot be achieved an election for the SPI liaison will be
held among members of the ffmpeg-devel< at >ffmpeg.org mailing list.
5. This invitation will lapse, if not accepted, 60 days after it is
approved by the SPI Board.
Full text of application for SPI associated project status:
--- Begin Application ---
Name and details of the project
===============================
The FFmpeg project was founded in 2000 by Fabrice Bellard, who is
also the trademark holder.
Website: http://www.ffmpeg.org/
FFmpeg aims to provide a complete, cross-platform solution to
multimedia processing including decoding, encoding, demuxing, muxing,
streaming, filtering, metadata processing, etc.
It comprises both a commandline toolset (ffmpeg, ffplay, ffprobe,
ffserver) and several libraries. For more info, check:
http://ffmpeg.org/about.html
FFmpeg currently supports a huge number of components, notably a large
number of codecs (more or less known), some of which have been reverse
engineered by FFmpeg developers. Furthermore some formats have been
designed and implemented within FFmpeg, in particular the NUT
container, and the FFV1 and Snow codecs.
FFmpeg aims to support formats and features natively, for example when
there is no active free software project providing support in a given
area, but relies on external libraries (e.g. libmp3lame, libx264) when
it makes sense.
FFmpeg is free software licensed under the LGPL or GPL depending on
the choice of configuration options.
FFmpeg is used by a large number of multimedia FLOSS projects
(e.g. MPlayer, VLC, Chromium, Blender etc., see
http://ffmpeg.org/projects.html for a more comprehensive list), and is
used as backend in a large number of multimedia website conversion
services (possibly including Google Video, Facebook and YouTube), and
is shipped by many Linux distros, for example Fedora and Centos. See:
http://distrowatch.com/search.php?pkg=ffmpeg&pkgver=#pkgsearch
for an indepth survey.
The Windows platform is supported through MinGW, and daily Windows
builds are provided by third parties like for example:
http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/
At the beginning of 2011 a group of developers created a fork which
was named Libav (for the fine details read the March 15, 2011 news
entry on ffmpeg.org). Most Libav changes are merged regularly into
FFmpeg.
Which SPI services will be needed
=================================
We request the following services to SPI:
- Accepting Donations and Holding Funds on behalf of FFmpeg
- Legal Assistance
In case of need we reserve the possibility to ask for other services.
Who is going to be the liaison to SPI, and the process for selecting/electing replacements
==========================================================================================
I, Stefano Sabatini, am going to assume the role of liaison while this
application is processed.
In case of application approval, the liaison will be chosen over
agreement on the public ffmpeg-devel mailing list. In case a consensus
can't be reached we'll establish a vote for electing the liaison, and
we will delay expense/refund approvals until we get a proper consensus
on the liaison choice or election.
The liaison mandate will last a fixed period, orientatively one year,
at the end of which we will run a new selection process. The liaison
role change will be promptly notified to SPI.
Every refund request will be posted to the project public development
mailing list (ffmpeg-devel< at >ffmpeg.org) and can be discussed by the
developers and other interested parties, it's also possible for the
project maintainer (currently Michael Niedermayer) to veto a request
before 7 days have passed since the liaison approval.
Every refund request sent by the liaison will have a link to the
public discussion, so SPI can check that the issue was public 7 days
ago at least and it has not received a veto, or it has been explicitly
approved so it can be considered valid.
--- End Application ---
Thanks,
Rob
</pre>Robert Brockway2012-05-24T13:00:48Treasurer's Report as of 2012-04-30
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1178
<pre>This report uses a cash-based method of accounting, recording donations
when deposited (not when the check was written or received by us) and
recording expenses when sent or scheduled for payment (not when
incurred).
Income Statement
for the Period April 01, 2012 - April 30, 2012
Income
Ordinary Income
Arch Linux 360.00
DebConf 12 5,110.00
Debian 3,803.50
Drizzle 150.00
FreeDesktop.org 27,000.00
Gallery 50.00
Jenkins 100.00
LibreOffice 110.00
PostgreSQL 500.00
Privoxy 25.00
SPI General 205.76
SPI 5% 271.80
The HeliOS Project 200.00
YafaRay Code Sprint 127.50
YafaRay 10.00
Total Ordinary Income 38,023.56
---------
Interest Income
Key Bank Money Mkt Savings 0.77
Chase BusinessClassic Checking 0.54
Chase Bus Select High Yield Savings 12.41
Total Interest Income 13.72
-----
Gross Income 38,037.28
---------
Expenses
Ordinary Expenses
Arch Linux
Processing Fees 18.60
SPI 5% 18.00
Total Arch Linux Exp 36.60
-----
DebConf 11
Travel Reimbursement 119.09
Total DebConf 11 Exp 119.09
------
DebConf 12
Processing Fees 5.10
Total DebConf 12 Exp 5.10
----
Debian
Debit Card Fee 3.00
Processing Fees 99.84
SPI 5% 190.18
Travel Reimbursement
(GSoC) 500.00
Total Debian Exp 793.02
------
Drizzle
Processing Fees 6.35
SPI 5% 7.50
Total Drizzle Exp 13.85
-----
freedesktop.org (fd.o)
Travel Reimbursement 4,467.32
Total fd.o Exp 4,467.32
--------
Gallery
Processing Fees 1.13
SPI 5% 2.50
Total Gallery Exp 3.63
----
Haskell
Hosting Fees 54.51
Total Haskell Exp 54.51
-----
Jenkins
Processing Fees 4.35
SPI 5% 5.00
Total Jenkins Exp 9.35
----
LibreOffice
Processing Fees 5.10
SPI 5% 5.50
Travel Reimbursement 1,832.13
Total LibreOffice Exp 1,842.73
--------
OpenWrt
Transfer to FFIS
(hosting) 666.67
Total OpenWrt Exp 666.67
------
PostgreSQL
Graphics Design 160.00
Legal Fees 1,277.66
Processing Fees 11.25
SPI 5% 25.00
Travel Reimbursement 1,569.72
Total PostgreSQL Exp 3,043.63
--------
Privoxy
Processing Fees 1.35
SPI 5% 1.25
Total Privoxy Exp 2.60
----
SPI
PaySimple Monthly Fee 29.95
SSL Cert
Wikimedia Elections 49.99
Transaction Fees 46.61
Transfer to FFIS
OpenJDK Dev Room
FOSDEM 4,315.85
Total SPI Exp 4,442.40
--------
The HeliOS Project
Expense reimbursement 819.08
Processing Fees 2.70
SPI 5% 10.00
Total HeliOS Exp 831.78
------
YafaRay Code Sprint
Processing Fees 7.20
SPI 5% 6.38
Total YafaRay CS Exp 13.58
-----
YafaRay
Processing Fees 0.75
SPI 5% 0.50
Total YafaRay Exp 1.25
----
Total Expenses 16,347.11
---------
Net Income 21,690.17
=========
Balance Sheet as of April 30, 2012
ASSETS
Current Assets
Chase BusinessClassic Checking with Interest 65,624.79
Chase Business Select High Yield Savings 97,683.01
Key Business Reward Checking 142,300.61
Key Business Signature Money Market Savings 36,026.56
Ameriprise Cash Mgmt Acct 13,406.15
Debian Debit Card 308.00
Total Current Assets 355,349.12
TOTAL ASSETS 355,349.12
LIABILITIES & EQUITY
General and current liabilities 0.00
Equity
Reserves held in trust
aptosid Earmark 100.33
Arch Linux Earmark 2,877.30
Debian Earmark 87,202.28
DebConf 11 Earmark 29,251.50
DebConf 12 Earmark 5,104.90
Drizzle 1,104.10
Fluxbox 995.00
Freedesktop.org Earmark 35,390.88
FreedomBox Foundation Earmark 20,105.69
Gallery Earmark 7,940.36
GNU TeXmacs Earmark 162.90
Haskell Earmark 12,892.26
Jenkins Earmark 11,501.50
LibreOffice Earmark 24,795.42
madwifi-project.org Earmark 1,494.90
OpenOffice.org Earmark 21,857.84
OpenVAS 45.71
OpenWrt 831.93
Open Voting Foundation Earmark 153.65
OSUNIX 0.56
Path64 9.31
Plan 9 Earmark 6,500.00
PostgreSQL Earmark 29,919.75
Privoxy Earmark 568.30
The HeliOS Project 952.69
Tux4Kids Earmark 8,788.85
YafaRay Code Sprint Earmark 345.13
YafaRay Earmark 4,892.78
Total held in trust 315,785.82
General reserves 39,563.30
.
Total Equity 355,349.12
TOTAL LIABILITIES & EQUITY 355,349.12
</pre>Michael Schultheiss2012-05-17T17:38:39Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1177
<pre>
yaaay! Great work guys.
/me files a whole buncha stuff in the "treasurer" queue ...
</pre>Josh Berkus2012-04-30T22:28:56Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1176
<pre>
For a summary here: We have RT now, contributing members have read
access and can find the password in the -private list.
</pre>Joerg Jaspert2012-04-30T14:33:44Re: D&O Insurance
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1175
<pre>Hi,
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 12:30:48PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote:
NPCC seems like a great organization with lots of useful resources. If we have
sufficient connections to NYC for them to want to accept us, we should join
them whether or not we get the insurance from them. We do have two non-officer
board members in NYC, and held one event here (DebConf10), and have ties to
parts of NY state other than NYC, but that's it.
If they've dealt with a FOSS foundation before, that's useful relevant
experience for them to understand us. Even more so if the foundation's
leadership was international and mostly working remotely as volunteers.
Wonderful, thank you.
- Jimmy Kaplowitz
jimmy< at >spi-inc.org
</pre>Jimmy Kaplowitz2012-04-22T04:20:45D&O Insurance
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1174
<pre>Hi all. SPI is investigating options for Directors and Officers
insurance.
I'm interested in any recommendations for insurance companies, brokers or
other organisaations who offer D&O insurance packages suitable for US
not-for-profit corporations. Please feel free to provide recommendations
in reply to this email or via private email if you prefer.
Here are a couple of recommendations I have already:
Nonprofit Coordinating Committee of New York
http://www.npccny.org/info/oi2.htm
Using NPCC's insurance requires being a member of the organisation.
Membership would cost no more than $250 and seems to provide affordable
D&O insurance for members.
The Weiner Company
http://www.weinerco.com/
A similar FOSS foundation went through this company and were apparently
happy with the result.
I will be getting pricing for D&O insurance and presenting it for
discussion.
Cheers,
Rob
</pre>Robert Brockway2012-04-22T02:30:48Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1173
<pre>Josh Berkus <josh< at >postgresql.org>
Huh? When did the board ever suggest that they were waiting for this
discussion to finish before deploying something? I think most of us
know we were just shouting into the well here.
Good luck with your new ticketing system,
</pre>MJ Ray2012-04-17T18:35:33Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1172
<pre>MJ,
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it wasn't a legitimate question. I was
just seeing the discussion go off into a tangent, and possibly blocking
deploying something several people could use *right now*.
--Josh Berkus
</pre>Josh Berkus2012-04-16T17:27:54Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1171
<pre>
Just wanted to add belated support for MJ's point here: the ability to
migrate to other systems is a great advantage of open source; having
SPI set an example of including it in their decision making process
seems like a good idea as part of both responsible maintenance and
forward planning, and as practical advocacy for free software.
FWIW, as well as access via the underlying db (and the ability to look
at the source code to understand how the db is setup); rt has a
reasonable REST interface which is also available via a command line
tool -- see http://requesttracker.wikia.com/wiki/REST and
http://requesttracker.wikia.com/wiki/CLI or the rt-command deb (not
separated out from the "rt" rpm in Fedora).
Cheers,
aj
</pre>Anthony Towns2012-04-16T07:51:01Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1170
<pre>josh< at >postgresql.org
Look, it was a legitimate question and something that I felt the
board should include in their decision-making. I'm not suggesting
that you don't make a decision!
It also seems to be that no-one in this discussion knows of anything
that's notably better, so everything sucks and this point seems to be
sort of a no-op. Oh well!
It looks to me like the biggest thing that could have hindered the
decision being made was that josh didn't show up for the meeting where
this was on the agenda and didn't even send apologies. Happily,
enough other board members attended to make quorum.
That sounds a lot like "We must do something! This is something,
therefore we must do this!" which is silly and dangerous. At least
email boxes have standards (too many, but still), so it is possible
to make things worse by adopting a bad system.
But I agree that RT seems a fair decision in this situation and wish
SPI well with it.
Regards,
</pre>MJ Ray2012-04-15T11:32:25Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1169
<pre>Quoting Adam Sampson <ats< at >offog.org>:
Guys: please don't let the perfect be the enemy of getting anything
done. Currently we don't have a ticket tracking system *at all*.
Regardless of the system we adopt, it will be better (and easier to
migrate) than the assorted email boxes of various board members.
RT is open source, it's available, our IT volunteers have experience
with it, and it's neither better nor worse than most other issue
trackers. It's "good enough". Please stop the bikeshedding.
Thanks!
</pre>josh< at >postgresql.org2012-04-14T20:17:54Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1168
<pre>
My hack for this was even more horrible:
http://offog.org/darcs/misccode/rt-to-trac
(I don't remember why I couldn't have the script do queries against the database directly; I think I didn't have access to the database myself.)
It did work, though...
</pre>Adam Sampson2012-04-13T17:38:32Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1167
<pre>josh< at >postgresql.org
I do run it on postgresql whenever I can (I really believe in SPI's
affiliated projects, you see). There's still something like 25 tables
to extract from and I seem to recall that the foreign key
relationships (such as a transaction to its creator) are not explicit,
probably because it also runs on databases that don't handle foreign
keys so well. Have you tried one?
I think some RT users are basically stuck in it so I'd like the board
to consider how SPI will move on if/when the time comes. I always
tell people to think about the exit routes with most software, whether
proprietary or FOSS.
The exit route from RT that I've used in the past was basically
dumping the live tickets to text and reparsing that. It's not great.
I don't remember if I used rt2mbox or a script that hammered the rt
client.
I've seen something similar done when a project moved from bugzilla,
so it may be that few bug trackers do better. I've used a lot but
not migrated between that many combinations of them so I don't have
a good overview. Hopefully there are smarter people than me reading
this, else we're all doomed! ;-)
Regards,
</pre>MJ Ray2012-04-13T15:27:44Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1166
<pre>MJ,
Run it on Postgres. Since PostgreSQL is an Affliliated project, you
can then count on having someone to do a direct database extraction,
if required.
--Josh
</pre>josh< at >postgresql.org2012-04-13T13:21:43Meeting log for 2012-04-12
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1165
<pre>Watch out for the move to 17th May for next meeting and the call for
help with the PHP membership management system. Share and enjoy!
HIGHLIGHTS
21:01:06 <bdale> *GAVEL*
21:01:06 <bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the
Public Interest board of directors meeting, which is now called to
order. Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found
on the web at:
http://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/agendas/2012/2012-04-12/
[item 2, Roll Call]
21:01:17 <Noodles> Jonathan McDowell
21:01:17 <Clint> Clint Adams
21:01:18 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
21:01:19 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:01:21 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
21:01:21 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
21:01:24 <Solver> Robert Brockway
21:01:26 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
[item 3, President's Report]
21:02:21 <bdale> My apologies to the board for my absence from our
last meeting, I suffered an unanticipated airline flight delay that
day.
[item 4, Treasurer's Report]
21:02:34 <schultmc> standard report was mailed out and is in the
agenda. nothing of note although Debian did receive a large donation
via credit card - the donor should be informed of lest costly donation
methods. no chance yet to review options for bookkeeping
assistance. - I'll be less busy after this weekend
[item 5, Secretary's report]
21:04:22 <Noodles> Nothing from me.
[item 6, Outstanding minutes]
voting results for "Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting": Yes: 6,
Abstain: 2
[item 7, Items up for discussion]
[item 7.1, YafaRay selling training materials]
21:06:20 * Hydroxide sees no problem with YafaRay selling educational,
training, or documentation materials about YafaRay.
21:06:36 <bdale> I didn't see any problem either, so wasn't sure why
this was on the agenda
21:06:46 <Hydroxide> my guess is Alvaro wanted to prod us into action
but, someone will have to handle things like collecting sales tax and
verifying what needs to happen there and in which jurisdictions
21:07:22 <Noodles> I'm guessing it may be driven from outside the US.
IIRC YafaRay are mostly in Europe. Which may make sales tax a non
issue. But aside from checking the exact nature of that I don't see a
problem.
21:08:05 <Hydroxide> Noodles: if SPI is doing the sales, we can't
ignore US or New York law, as a US and New York entity. we may have
other jurisdictions to worry about - no idea about EU VAT myself. none
of this is a problem, someone just has to follow up on it
21:09:43 <Alvaro> afaik tax sales should be handled by SPI in regard
to his legal address
21:10:11 <bdale> in the US, most states only require the collection of
sales tax for items sold in the same jurisdiction as the seller. I'm
not 100% clear on NY law, but I suspect tax only needs to be collected
on sales of items to NY addresses
21:10:55 <Hydroxide> bdale: yes - but we might at least have to worry
about it for New York buyers, and possibly Indiana and other buyers
where we have either officers, directors, and/or significant donations
or sales. agreed that we basically have to do it for NY unless this
falls into an exception like DebConf10's activities did. there is
probably some way to use a third-party to handle the whole sales
process for us, including tax collections stuff. so the work involved
might just be "find an online storefront that does that and confirm
with SFLC that that meets our obligations"
21:11:32 <bdale> wrt sales tax collection, don't make it more
complicated than it needs to be is my general advice. ok, I think we
can wrap this for today. Hydroxide will look for suitable
out-sourcers and we can discuss on list as no resolution should be
required
[item 7.2, Discussion of tracking system]
21:16:09 <Solver> There is a general concensus that a tracking system
is a good idea and RT seems to be the preferred option at this stage I
think we just need to confirm we will get it installed and running
21:16:37 <Ganneff> im against redmine unless someone has a reason for
the other features it has. which i can't see. im fine with rt, have
multiple of em, its nice and easy to adapt if need be. i veto otrs as
its sh*t as hell if someone plans to mention it... i think we will end
up with a nice little vm just for this, so i can easily hand out rt
admin access to others (including filesystem access i mean, not just
the web stuff).
21:16:46 <Noodles> Again I didn't think this really needed to be on
the agenda as I thought we'd come to a decision offline.
[item 8, Any other business]
21:18:35 <Noodles> I'd like to apologise for making zero progress on
membership cleanup. Various things came up that meant I didn't have a
decent chunk of time to sit down and look at the website code, though
I did have a few thoughts on what I wanted to do with it. I think all
the discussion from last month is still relevant. If someone else has
time/inclination to jump in and suggest some changes or wants to
discuss with me I'm happy for that to happen. As I said I'm not a PHP
person so it's a steeper curve for me. Largely I think we/I want a
"I'm still interested" button/link in the members area to update an
active date field in the DB. And a vote will also update that field.
And then we can mail based on that field, and cull x weeks after the
mail based on that field. And that can all be largely automatic. So
extend the members table to have that field, extend the vote script to
update it, add a page/link to update it from the web interface and add
a script to send out a mail with a link to the page. I don't think
it's complex, I just haven't had time to sit down and write code.
21:19:01 <bdale> I'll note in passing here that I've already proposed
a SPI BOF for Debconf 12, all who plan to attend from the board are
respectfully asked to include it in their plans once it gets scheduled
assuming it does
[item 9, Next board meeting]
21:25:22 <bdale> let's go with the 17th then, then return to normal in June
21:25:38 <bdale> *GAVEL*
TIMED LOG
21:01:06 <bdale> *GAVEL*
21:01:06 <bdale> [item 1, Opening] Welcome to today's Software in the Public Interest board of directors meeting, which is now called to order.
21:01:06 <bdale> Today's agenda and details of pending resolutions can be found on the web at: http://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/agendas/2012/2012-04-12/
21:01:15 <bdale> [item 2, Roll Call]
21:01:15 <bdale> Board members, please state your name for the record. As we have nine board members, quorum for today's meeting is six.
21:01:15 <bdale> Guests (including board advisors), please /msg your names to Noodles if you wish your attendance to be recorded in the minutes of this meeting.
21:01:17 <Noodles> Jonathan McDowell
21:01:17 <Clint> Clint Adams
21:01:18 <zobel> Martin Zobel-Helas
21:01:19 <Hydroxide> Jimmy Kaplowitz
21:01:21 <bdale> Bdale Garbee
21:01:21 <Ganneff> Joerg Jaspert
21:01:24 <Solver> Robert Brockway
21:01:26 <schultmc> Michael Schultheiss
21:01:50 <Hydroxide> everyone but linuxpoet
21:01:53 <bdale> did we hear from him?
21:02:03 <Noodles> I didn't.
21:02:12 <Hydroxide> he commented laconically on the ticketing system thread, but that's it
21:02:15 <bdale> perhaps he'll join us then, since we have quorum I will proceed
21:02:21 <bdale> [item 3, President's Report]
21:02:21 <bdale> My apologies to the board for my absence from our last meeting, I suffered an unanticipated airline flight delay that day.
21:02:21 <bdale> [item 4, Treasurer's Report]
21:02:21 <bdale> Michael?
21:02:34 <schultmc> standard report was mailed out and is in the agenda
21:02:39 <schultmc> nothing of note
21:02:57 <bdale> any questions for Michael? mine was already answered this morning.
21:03:09 <schultmc> although Debian did receive a large donation via credit card - the donor should be informed of lest costly donation methods
21:03:14 <Solver> bdale: yes one....
21:03:31 <Solver> schultmc: any chance to review options for bookkeeping assistance?
21:03:52 <schultmc> Solver: not yet - I'll be less busy after this weekend
21:04:04 <Solver> np thanks
21:04:11 <bdale> great
21:04:16 <bdale> [item 5, Secretary's report]
21:04:16 <bdale> Jonathan?
21:04:22 <Noodles> Nothing from me.
21:04:36 <bdale> [item 6, Outstanding minutes]
21:04:36 <bdale> Jonathan, I believe we have last month's to vote on?
21:04:39 <Noodles> Voting started, 8 people (clint,zobel,hydroxide,bdale,ganneff,solver,schultmc,noodles) allowed to vote on Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting. - You may vote yes/no/abstain only, type !vote $yourchoice now.
21:04:46 <bdale> !vote abstain
21:04:47 <Hydroxide> !vote abstain
21:04:49 <schultmc> !vote yes
21:04:50 <Solver> !vote yes
21:04:51 <Ganneff> !vote yes
21:04:54 <Clint> !vote yes
21:04:55 <Noodles> !vote yes
21:05:08 <zobel> !vote yes
21:05:17 <Noodles> Current voting results for "Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting": Yes: 6, No: 0, Abstain: 2, Missing: 0 ()
21:05:20 <Noodles> Voting for "Minutes for 8th March 2012 board meeting" closed.
21:05:25 <bdale> thanks, all!
21:05:31 <bdale> [item 7, Items up for discussion]
21:05:31 <bdale> [item 7.1, YafaRay selling training materials]
21:05:31 <bdale> Who wants to speak to this?
21:06:15 <Ganneff> woo, not so many at once.
21:06:15 <Noodles> I don't think I saw any serious objections to this?
21:06:16 <Solver> What was the final opinion from counsel?
21:06:20 * Hydroxide sees no problem with YafaRay selling educational, training, or documentation materials about YafaRay.
21:06:36 <bdale> I didn't see any problem either, so wasn't sure why this was on the agenda
21:06:46 <Hydroxide> Solver: we shouldn't get to specific about the details in a public channel, due to privilege concerns. my guess is Alvaro wanted to prod us into action
21:07:03 <Solver> Hydroxide: yes good point
21:07:07 <Hydroxide> but, someone will have to handle things like collecting sales tax and verifying what needs to happen there
21:07:12 <Hydroxide> and in which jurisdictions
21:07:17 <bdale> so is there anything for us to discuss or act on here today?
21:07:22 <Noodles> I'm guessing it may be driven from outside the US.
21:07:31 <Noodles> IIRC YafaRay are mostly in Europe.
21:07:44 <Noodles> Which may make sales tax a non issue.
21:08:02 <Alvaro> am I allowed to speak?
21:08:04 <bdale> US sales tax, certainly
21:08:05 <Hydroxide> Noodles: if SPI is doing the sales, we can't ignore US or New York law, as a US and New York entity. we may have other jurisdictions to worry about - no idea about EU VAT myself
21:08:06 <bdale> Alvaro: please
21:08:06 <Noodles> But aside from checking the exact nature of that I don't see a problem.
21:08:17 <Hydroxide> Noodles: none of this is a problem, someone just has to follow up on it
21:09:14 <bdale> Alvaro: please speak if you wish
21:09:43 <Alvaro> afaik tax sales should be handled by SPI in regard to his legal address
21:10:11 <bdale> in the US, most states only require the collection of sales tax for items sold in the same jurisdiction as the seller
21:10:16 <Hydroxide> there is probably some way to use a third-party to handle the whole sales process for us, including tax collections stuff. so the work involved might just be "find an online storefront that does that and confirm with SFLC that that meets our obligations"
21:10:37 <bdale> I'm not 100% clear on US law, but I suspect tax only needs to be collected on sales of items to NY addresses
21:10:48 <bdale> s/US/NY/
21:10:55 <Hydroxide> bdale: yes - but we might at least have to worry about it for New York buyers, and possibly Indiana and other buyers where we have either officers, directors, and/or significant donations or sales
21:11:19 <Hydroxide> bdale: agreed that we basically have to do it for NY unless this falls into an exception like DebConf10's activities did
21:11:32 <bdale> wrt sales tax collection, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be is my general advice
21:11:38 <Hydroxide> yup
21:11:47 <Hydroxide> that's why I'm suggesting outsourcing that :)
21:11:53 <bdale> ok, so I see no action for us to take today?
21:12:25 <Hydroxide> someone just has to follow up on it. no vote needed today.
21:12:32 <bdale> I can't think of any issue outsourcing it, it shouldn't need a board resolution
21:12:36 <Hydroxide> right
21:12:44 <Alvaro> so how we should proceed when our training stuff is finished
21:12:57 <Hydroxide> Alvaro: how soon are you expecting that to be ready?
21:13:05 <Solver> Alvaro: how long until you think you will be ready?
21:13:13 * Hydroxide grins at Solver
21:13:17 <Solver> Hydroxide: :)
21:13:23 <Alvaro> soon, within this month probably
21:13:27 <bdale> ok
21:13:50 <bdale> Hydroxide: did you have an particular suggestion on who to outsource to?
21:14:00 <Alvaro> do you have a tax advisor? maybe he has something to say about it
21:14:05 <Hydroxide> bdale: no. I guess I can look into it
21:14:21 <bdale> Alvaro: no, not exactly
21:14:34 <bdale> Hydroxide: if you would, that'd be great, then let's continue this discussion via email?
21:14:38 <Hydroxide> bdale: sure
21:14:38 <Solver> Alvaro: we discussed it with legal counsel at the time of the request but not an accountant afaik
21:14:50 <Alvaro> I see
21:14:56 <Solver> bdale: agreed
21:15:07 <bdale> ok, I think we can wrap this for today. Hydroxide will look for suitable out-sourcers and we can discuss on list as no resolution should be required
21:15:17 <Hydroxide> Solver: it doesn't really have tax implications for SPI so we don't need tax advice - it's more legal advice about which taxes we have to collect and pass on, and how to do that with as little effort and complication as possible :)
21:15:29 <bdale> Alvaro: thanks for your input to the discussion, we'll look forward to working with you to do the right thing(s)
21:15:35 <bdale> [item 7.2, Discussion of tracking system]
21:15:35 <bdale> Robert, did you want to kick us off on this?
21:15:45 <Solver> sure....
21:15:47 <Alvaro> I am sorry that the whole matter could be a extra hassle for you but maybe it is an useful experience for other projects too
21:15:51 <Hydroxide> (that was meant for Alvaro, not Solver. /me yields the floor again)
21:15:57 <bdale> Alvaro: no worries
21:16:03 <bdale> it's what we're here for!
21:16:09 <Solver> There is a general concensus that a tracking system is a good idea
21:16:16 <Solver> and RT seems to be the preferred option
21:16:37 <Ganneff> im against redmine unless someone has a reason for the other features it has. which i can't see. im fine with rt, have multiple of em, its nice and easy to adapt if need be. i veto otrs as its sh*t as hell if someone plans to mention it... i think we will end up with a nice little vm just for this, so i can easily hand out rt admin access to others (including filesystem access i mean, not just the web stuff).
21:16:38 <Solver> at this stage I think we just need to confirm we will get it installed and running
21:16:46 <Noodles> Again I didn't think this really needed to be on the agenda as I thought we'd come to a decision offline.
21:17:06 <Solver> I submitted it before some discussion ensued
21:17:13 <bdale> Ganneff: if you're ok to proceed with RT, I think the answer is "just do it"
21:17:15 <Noodles> I know.
21:17:22 <Noodles> I left it anyway so we could say yay or nay.
21:17:36 <Ganneff> bdale: sure. next week, and i guess solver wants to be on board of that train
21:17:39 <Noodles> And I think we're all saying yes to RT if sysadmin< at >spi is happy to install it.
21:17:49 <bdale> I'm not going to call for a vote unless there's objection to "the plan"
21:17:53 <Solver> Noodles: exactly
21:18:02 * Hydroxide agrees with the above
21:18:13 <bdale> ok, I mark this item done and we move on. thanks, all
21:18:13 <Ganneff> we have to get up with some useful queues and groups maybe, but otherwise it will be nice and simple
21:18:21 <bdale> [item 8, Any other business]
21:18:21 <bdale> Do any board members have other items for discussion they would like to address briefly?
21:18:35 <Noodles> I'd like to apologise for making zero progress on membership cleanup.
21:19:01 <bdale> I'll note in passing here that I've already proposed a SPI BOF for Debconf 12, all who plan to attend from the board are respectfully asked to include it in their plans once it gets scheduled assuming it does
21:19:06 <Noodles> Various things came up that meant I didn't have a decent chunk of time to sit down and look at the website code, though I did have a few thoughts on what I wanted to do with it.
21:19:30 <Noodles> bdale: I'm hoping to be there so will certainly attend if so.
21:19:30 <bdale> Noodles: anything you could use help on?
21:20:11 <Noodles> I think all the discussion from last month is still relevant.
21:20:43 <Noodles> If someone else has time/inclination to jump in and suggest some changes or wants to discuss with me I'm happy for that to happen. As I said I'm not a PHP person so it's a steeper curve for me.
21:20:44 * bdale reads the minutes again
21:20:44 * Hydroxide will attend the BoF
21:21:03 <zobel> schultmc: will we meet our deadline for our annual report (IRS 990)?
21:21:11 <bdale> I'm not exactly a PHP hack either .. but I do want to see us make progress on this.
21:21:13 <Clint> i'll try to take a look at the code before the next meeting
21:21:15 <schultmc> zobel: yes
21:21:19 <bdale> Clint: thanks
21:21:23 <zobel> schultmc: thx
21:21:23 <Noodles> bdale: Largely I think we/I want a "I'm still interested" button/link in the members area to update an active date field in the DB.
21:21:37 <Noodles> And a vote will also update that field.
21:21:54 <Noodles> And then we can mail based on that field, and cull x weeks after the mail based on that field.
21:21:56 <bdale> ok, that makes sense .. sound like something you can handle, Clint?
21:22:03 <Noodles> And that can all be largely automatic.
21:22:17 <Clint> probably, depending on what the db's like
21:22:33 <bdale> ok .. let's all poke each other on IRC as needed to get this done in the next month?
21:22:43 <Noodles> So extend the members table to have that field, extend the vote script to update it, add a page/link to update it from the web interface and add a script to send out a mail with a link to the page.
21:23:09 <Noodles> I don't think it's complex, I just haven't had time to sit down and write code.
21:23:33 <bdale> understand .. I've been pretty swamped too, but as I say this is important so let's all try to collaborate and get it done
21:23:38 <bdale> ok, anything else?
21:23:45 <bdale> [item 9, Next board meeting]
21:23:45 <bdale> Our next regularly-scheduled monthly meeting would be 9 May 2012, 20:00 UTC.
21:23:45 <bdale> Any strong objections?
21:23:47 <schultmc> I'll be at a conference the second week of May 2012. I'd prefer moving the meeting to 2012-05-17
21:24:11 <Solver> no objections
21:24:21 * zobel will not be able to attend the next meeting
21:24:27 <bdale> either week would be ok with me
21:24:37 <zobel> i will be on VAC whole of May.
21:24:40 <bdale> any strong objections to the 17th?
21:24:41 <Noodles> Fine with me. I note UDS is on the second week of May. It'd be good to meet anyone who's going to be in the Bay Area for that.
21:24:58 <Ganneff> i might not be at that meeting. depends on when the babys crawling out, but its right before that...
21:25:07 <schultmc> Noodles: I'll be in the bay area for a different conference
21:25:16 <zobel> babys?!
21:25:22 <bdale> Noodles: let's go with the 17th then, then return to normal in June, ok?
21:25:28 <Noodles> bdale: Sure.
21:25:29 <schultmc> works for me
21:25:32 <Ganneff> ahwell, minus the s. or plus a ' :)
21:25:38 <bdale> Ok, thank you to everyone present for participating today.
21:25:38 <bdale> *GAVEL*
</pre>MJ Ray2012-04-13T09:14:49Re: *corrected* Treasurer's Report as of 2012-03-31
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1164
<pre>In case you're wondering what the difference is between the initial
report and the corrected report, the initial report was missing an
expense for Jenkins.
</pre>Michael Schultheiss2012-04-12T16:46:02*corrected* Treasurer's Report as of 2012-03-31
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1163
<pre>This report uses a cash-based method of accounting, recording donations
when deposited (not when the check was written or received by us) and
recording expenses when sent or scheduled for payment (not when
incurred).
Income Statement
for the Period March 01, 2012 - March 31, 2012
Income
Ordinary Income
Arch Linux 518.94
DebConf 11 270.00
Debian 21,965.41
Drizzle 100.00
FreeDesktop.org 25.00
Gallery 105.00
LibreOffice 141.00
PostgreSQL 861.00
SPI General 100.00
SPI 5% 212.87
The HeliOS Project 1,440.00
YafaRay Code Sprint 256.00
YafaRay 15.00
Total Ordinary Income 26,010.22
---------
Interest Income
Key Bank Money Mkt Savings 1.45
Chase BusinessClassic Checking 0.38
Chase Bus Select High Yield Savings 12.01
Total Interest Income 13.84
-----
Gross Income 26,024.06
---------
Expenses
Ordinary Expenses
Arch Linux
Processing Fees 25.66
SPI 5% 25.95
Total Arch Linux Exp 51.60
-----
DebConf 11
Processing Fees 11.85
SPI 5% 13.50
Travel Reimbursement 1,700.00
Total DebConf 11 Exp 1,725.35
--------
Debian
Debit Card Fee 3.00
Hard Drives 130.00
Portland BSP 39.53
Processing Fees 872.62
SPI 5% 98.27
Total Debian Exp 1,143.42
--------
Drizzle
Processing Fees 4.35
SPI 5% 5.00
Total Drizzle Exp 9.35
----
freedesktop.org
Processing Fees 1.35
SPI 5% 1.25
Total fd.o Exp 2.60
----
Gallery
Processing Fees 3.06
SPI 5% 5.25
Total Gallery Exp 8.31
----
Haskell
Hosting Fees 54.45
Total Haskell Exp 54.45
-----
Jenkins
Stickers 480.00
Total Jenkins Exp 480.00
------
LibreOffice
Processing Fees 2.89
SPI 5% 7.05
Travel Reimbursement 1,432.61
Total LibreOffice Exp 1,442.55
--------
PostgreSQL
Processing Fees 13.08
SPI 5% 43.05
Total PostgreSQL Exp 56.13
-----
SPI
PaySimple Monthly Fee 29.95
Transaction Fees 22.38
Total SPI Exp 52.33
-----
The HeliOS Project
Processing Fees 11.35
SPI 5% 72.00
Total HeliOS Exp 83.35
-----
YafaRay Code Sprint
Processing Fees 11.99
SPI 5% 12.80
Total YafaRay CS Exp 24.79
-----
YafaRay
Processing Fees 1.30
SPI 5% 0.75
Total YafaRay Exp 2.05
----
Total Expenses 5,136.28
--------
Net Income 20,887.78
=========
Balance Sheet as of March 31, 2012
ASSETS
Current Assets
Chase BusinessClassic Checking with Interest 62,622.19
Chase Business Select High Yield Savings 97,670.60
Key Business Reward Checking 123,909.93
Key Business Signature Money Market Savings 36,025.79
Ameriprise Cash Mgmt Acct 13,406.15
Debian Debit Card 311.00
Total Current Assets 333,945.66
TOTAL ASSETS 333,945.66
LIABILITIES & EQUITY
General and current liabilities 0.00
Equity
Reserves held in trust
aptosid Earmark 100.33
Arch Linux Earmark 2,553.90
Debian Earmark 84,191.80
DebConf 11 Earmark 29,370.59
Drizzle 954.10
Fluxbox 995.00
Freedesktop.org Earmark 12,858.20
FreedomBox Foundation Earmark 20,105.69
Gallery Earmark 7,893.99
GNU TeXmacs Earmark 162.90
Haskell Earmark 12,946.77
Jenkins Earmark 10,930.85
LibreOffice Earmark 26,528.15
madwifi-project.org Earmark 1,494.90
OpenOffice.org Earmark 21,857.84
OpenVAS 45.71
OpenWrt 1,498.60
Open Voting Foundation Earmark 153.65
OSUNIX 0.56
Path64 9.31
Plan 9 Earmark 6,500.00
PostgreSQL Earmark 32,463.38
Privoxy Earmark 545.90
The HeliOS Project 1,584.47
Tux4Kids Earmark 8,788.85
YafaRay Code Sprint Earmark 231.21
YafaRay Earmark 4,884.03
Total held in trust 289,650.68
General reserves 44,294.98
.
Total Equity 333,945.66
TOTAL LIABILITIES & EQUITY 333,945.66
</pre>Michael Schultheiss2012-04-12T06:00:14Treasurer's Report as of 2012-03-31
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1162
<pre>This report uses a cash-based method of accounting, recording donations
when deposited (not when the check was written or received by us) and
recording expenses when sent or scheduled for payment (not when
incurred).
Income Statement
for the Period March 01, 2012 - March 31, 2012
Income
Ordinary Income
Arch Linux 518.94
DebConf 11 270.00
Debian 21,965.41
Drizzle 100.00
FreeDesktop.org 25.00
Gallery 105.00
LibreOffice 141.00
PostgreSQL 861.00
SPI General 100.00
SPI 5% 212.87
The HeliOS Project 1,440.00
YafaRay Code Sprint 256.00
YafaRay 15.00
Total Ordinary Income 26,010.22
---------
Interest Income
Key Bank Money Mkt Savings 1.45
Chase BusinessClassic Checking 0.38
Chase Bus Select High Yield Savings 12.01
Total Interest Income 13.84
-----
Gross Income 26,024.06
---------
Expenses
Ordinary Expenses
Arch Linux
Processing Fees 25.66
SPI 5% 25.95
Total Arch Linux Exp 51.60
-----
DebConf 11
Processing Fees 11.85
SPI 5% 13.50
Travel Reimbursement 1,700.00
Total DebConf 11 Exp 1,725.35
--------
Debian
Debit Card Fee 3.00
Hard Drives 130.00
Portland BSP 39.53
Processing Fees 872.62
SPI 5% 98.27
Total Debian Exp 1,143.42
--------
Drizzle
Processing Fees 4.35
SPI 5% 5.00
Total Drizzle Exp 9.35
----
freedesktop.org
Processing Fees 1.35
SPI 5% 1.25
Total fd.o Exp 2.60
----
Gallery
Processing Fees 3.06
SPI 5% 5.25
Total Gallery Exp 8.31
----
Haskell
Hosting Fees 54.45
Total Haskell Exp 54.45
-----
LibreOffice
Processing Fees 2.89
SPI 5% 7.05
Travel Reimbursement 1,432.61
Total LibreOffice Exp 1,442.55
--------
PostgreSQL
Processing Fees 13.08
SPI 5% 43.05
Total PostgreSQL Exp 56.13
-----
SPI
PaySimple Monthly Fee 29.95
Transaction Fees 22.38
Total SPI Exp 52.33
-----
The HeliOS Project
Processing Fees 11.35
SPI 5% 72.00
Total HeliOS Exp 83.35
-----
YafaRay Code Sprint
Processing Fees 11.99
SPI 5% 12.80
Total YafaRay CS Exp 24.79
-----
YafaRay
Processing Fees 1.30
SPI 5% 0.75
Total YafaRay Exp 2.05
----
Total Expenses 4,656.28
--------
Net Income 21,367.78
=========
Balance Sheet as of March 31, 2012
ASSETS
Current Assets
Chase BusinessClassic Checking with Interest 62,622.19
Chase Business Select High Yield Savings 97,670.60
Key Business Reward Checking 123,909.93
Key Business Signature Money Market Savings 36,025.79
Ameriprise Cash Mgmt Acct 13,406.15
Debian Debit Card 311.00
Total Current Assets 333,945.66
TOTAL ASSETS 333,945.66
LIABILITIES & EQUITY
General and current liabilities 0.00
Equity
Reserves held in trust
aptosid Earmark 100.33
Arch Linux Earmark 2,553.90
Debian Earmark 84,191.80
DebConf 11 Earmark 29,370.59
Drizzle 954.10
Fluxbox 995.00
Freedesktop.org Earmark 12,858.20
FreedomBox Foundation Earmark 20,105.69
Gallery Earmark 7,893.99
GNU TeXmacs Earmark 162.90
Haskell Earmark 12,946.77
Jenkins Earmark 11,410.85
LibreOffice Earmark 26,528.15
madwifi-project.org Earmark 1,494.90
OpenOffice.org Earmark 21,857.84
OpenVAS 45.71
OpenWrt 1,498.60
Open Voting Foundation Earmark 153.65
OSUNIX 0.56
Path64 9.31
Plan 9 Earmark 6,500.00
PostgreSQL Earmark 32,463.38
Privoxy Earmark 545.90
The HeliOS Project 1,584.47
Tux4Kids Earmark 8,788.85
YafaRay Code Sprint Earmark 231.21
YafaRay Earmark 4,884.03
Total held in trust 290,130.68
General reserves 43,814.98
.
Total Equity 333,945.66
TOTAL LIABILITIES & EQUITY 333,945.66
</pre>Michael Schultheiss2012-04-12T03:26:48Re: SPI Ticketting system
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/1161
<pre>
I don't believe any options have been considered.
I've run quite a few RT instances over the last 12 years or so at
different organisations. They've all been very long lived. The only time
I've retired an RT instance it was left running on a virtual box for
reference and no attempt was made to migrate the data.
Cheers,
Rob
</pre>Robert Brockway2012-04-11T11:25:03Search EngineSearch the mailing list at Gmanequery
http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.org.spi.general