gmane.org.operators.nanog

Industry practice for BGP costs - one time or fixed/monthly?

Anurag Bhatia — 2012-05-25T16:01:11

Hello everyone


I have been aggressively looking for deals in servers in Europe for
anycasting. One thing which surprises me is the "setup costs" for BGP. Few
providers quoted additional $50-100 which looks OK but a few of them quoted
as high as $150 *extra every month* just for having BGP (no full routing
table, but just default route pointing). Is there's any technical logic
behind such heavy costs? I mean at the end of day we are all talking at
layer 3 and thus it does not involves any hard connection/physical work.
What other members pay for BGP setup costs?



Thanks!

FBI Presses for Amendment to CALEA to cover social networks

Jay Ashworth — 2012-05-25T15:57:06

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/fbi-forming-communications-assistance-center-to-help-spy-on-americans/2012/05/24/gJQAFuuSnU_story.html

Re: Database with telephone numbers

Jarek Kasjaniuk — 2012-05-25T15:54:16

W dniu 25.05.2012 17:02, Andy Smith pisze:

Thank you to all of you for help and fast response to my inquiry.

--
Jarek Kasjaniuk

PS. I know the site is in Polish...
but may be this link will be useful to someone.

http://www.uke.gov.pl/tablice/home.do?execution=e5s1

1. Stacjonarne publiczne sieci telefoniczne ->  Fixed public telephone network
2. Ruchome (komórkowe) publiczne sieci telefoniczne -> Mobile (cellular) public telephone networks

Re: Database with telephone numbers

Andy Smith — 2012-05-25T15:02:53

www.nanpa.com (North American Number Plan Association).  This is the
"official" site for area code/exchange information in North America.
www.localcallingguide.com also has information, but I'm not sure how
"official" it is.  Both sites have multiple ways of searching, i.e. per
area code, by lata, by company, etc.

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Jarek Kasjaniuk
<jarek< at >dolsatbelchatow.pl>wrote:

RE: Database with telephone numbers

Wallace Keith — 2012-05-25T15:00:30

Check  nanpa.com

http://nanpa.com/nas/public/assigned_code_query_step1.do?method=resetCodeQueryModel

although number portability may confuse things slightly- 

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: Jarek Kasjaniuk [mailto:jarek< at >dolsatbelchatow.pl] 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:48 AM
To: nanog< at >nanog.org
Subject: Database with telephone numbers

Hello NANOG,

I am looking for information about database which provides the names of companies and allocated telephone numbers in US.

I know that FCC has a website  http://apps.fcc.gov/cgb/form499/499a.cfm,
but there are only companies names.

In Poland we have similar database on our "FCC" website - UKE ( Office of Electronic Communications ), but we can find to whom belongs allocated telephone numbers.
For example:  area code 12 + number starts at 200 -> 12200 and we have -> area code '12' | allocated pool 'SPQM=200(1,3,6,8,0)' | area 'Krakow' | owner 'TP S.A'

Where can I find that kind of information?

Thanks in advance for help.

--
Jarek Kasjaniuk

Database with telephone numbers

Jarek Kasjaniuk — 2012-05-25T14:47:51

Hello NANOG,

I am looking for information about database which provides the names of companies
and allocated telephone numbers in US.

I know that FCC has a website  http://apps.fcc.gov/cgb/form499/499a.cfm,
but there are only companies names.

In Poland we have similar database on our "FCC" website - UKE ( Office of Electronic Communications ),
but we can find to whom belongs allocated telephone numbers.
For example:  area code 12 + number starts at 200 -> 12200
and we have -> area code '12' | allocated pool 'SPQM=200(1,3,6,8,0)' | area 'Krakow' | owner 'TP S.A'

Where can I find that kind of information?

Thanks in advance for help.

--
Jarek Kasjaniuk

Re: Current IPv6 state of US Mobile Phone Carriers

2012-05-25T14:35:49

On Fri, 25 May 2012 15:25:35 +0900, Masataka Ohta said:


And the 80% of the world's population that can afford exactly one
device which happens to be mobile, does, what, exactly?

Re: Current IPv6 state of US Mobile Phone Carriers

Christopher Morrow — 2012-05-25T14:32:11

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Masataka Ohta
<mohta< at >necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> wrote:

that seems super scalable and easy for 'people' to do ...

RE: ISPs and full packet inspection

Don Bowman — 2012-05-25T13:13:25

From: not common [mailto:notcommonmistakes< at >gmail.com] 


Your better to discuss use cases than technology.
E.g. do you plan to do per-user behavioural targeted advertising?
To secure the network from DNS changer malware?
To block slammer worm?
To deploy a session border controller?
To deploy a carrier-grade NAT (LSN)?
To collect bank information and profit?
To enhance the QoS of VoIP?
To deploy a transparent web or video cache?

All of them use packet inspection. All can be achieved w/o packet inspection. 
All of them vary wildly in how people would react :)

So... phrase your question and 'guidance' around the use case, not the
method you plan to achieve it today.

APNIC 34 Conference - Call for Papers

Randy Bush — 2012-05-23T01:55:53

________________________________________________________________________

APNIC 34 Conference - Call for Papers
________________________________________________________________________


The APNIC 34 Programme Committee is now seeking tutorials and
presentations for the APNIC 34 Conference to be held in Phnom Penh,
Cambodia from 27 - 31 August 2012.  We are looking for content which
would suit the technical conference sessions and the tutorials.

Key Dates
---------

The timeline for submissions is:

Call for Papers OpensNow
First Round Paper Acceptance2 July 2012
Final Deadline for Submissions 13 August 2012
Final Round Paper Acceptance 20 August 2012
Final Slides Received25 August 2012

Submitting Proposals
--------------------

http://submission.apnic.net

Programme Material
------------------

The technical sessions at APNIC 34 will include presentations relevant
to Internet operations and technologies. The following topics are
examples of possible areas of interest.

       - IPv4 exhaustion / IPv6 deployment and operations
       - NAT64/444, 6rd, DSLite, A+P
       - ISP and Carrier Services
       - IXPs and Peering
       - Network security
       - Access and Transport Technologies
       - Content and Service Delivery

If you have any another ideas or proposals for panel or Birds of
Feather sessions, please feel free to submit your ideas via the
submission system.

If you have any questions, please email the Programme Committee at:

     apnic-pc< at >apnic.net

For more information about APNIC 34, please visit:

     http://conference.apnic.net/34


On behalf of:

APNIC 34 Programme Committee
Co-chairs: Philip Smith & Mark Tinka

Re: Equinix Direct

Tim Durack — 2012-05-25T12:19:10

Thanks for the response to my question.

What I have received confirms this is basically a metered IXP with
route servers and a mix of paid transit/peering options. Will be
interesting to see what the participant mix is.

It does concern me that the only connectivity options are FE/GE, no
10GE at this time. Makes me wonder about how serious the service is,
and whether I will end up with a more congested service than simply
getting a mix of transit providers myself.

Anyway, thanks again to all who responded.

Re: Current IPv6 state of US Mobile Phone Carriers

Masataka Ohta — 2012-05-25T06:25:35


The proper way to have a static IP address is not to pay mobile
operators but to run mobile IP or something like that on your
terminal.

You can run your home agent at your home or office.

Masataka Ohta

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Jay Ashworth — 2012-05-25T02:36:27

----- Original Message -----


TL:DR; The reasons for doing this on any kind of general basis have to
be *EXCEPTIONALLY* compelling to make a business case for it, apart from 
any possible legal ramifications.

I used asterisks *and* capital letters; that's about an order of magnitude.

Don't forget staffing.

Cheers,

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Justin M. Streiner — 2012-05-25T02:21:44


Aside from all of the business and legal sticking points that others have 
mentioned, there are also the technical aspects of capturing, storing, 
transporting, analyzing, and managing those packets, and the appliances 
that do the heavy lifting.  As your traffic grows, that problem scales 
1:1 linearly, at best, and more likely n:1 linearly, or worse.  The added 
overhead of the infrastructure needed to support this will also make it 
more difficult to be price-competitive with your peers.

Your sales/marketing/executive staff would have their work cut out for 
them in trying to explain to existing and prospective customers not only 
where the value-add is for them, but why that would be worth the 
significant recurring costs you'd have to charge to cover your overhead 
and/or maintain your profit margin.

jms

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Jason Hellenthal — 2012-05-25T02:03:33


On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 08:37:52PM -0500, Jimmy Hess wrote:

If you need a call center to handle this just let me know... :) since
your call volume is going to spike through the roof.

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Jimmy Hess — 2012-05-25T01:37:52

[snip
Aside from any legal issue;  there is a  "respectable practices"
issue. Even if there is no regulation that prohibits something does
not mean it is OK.  Your customers' deserve to be made aware of any
full packet capture practices that may impact traffic to/from network
they own/manage,  before packet capture occurs,  especially when there
is data retention, or human examination/analysis based on contents of
large numbers of packets;  otherwise there is a risk you will be in
trouble, for some definition of "in trouble" that depends on the
circumstances.

Because your packet interception can put your user at risk;
proprietary information can be disclosed.    And most ISP customers
intend to purchase network connectivity service,  not   "record all my
traffic without telling me"  service ..



Are you prepared to explicitly explain to your customers,  both
existing, and new ones,
before they are allowed to buy or continue service from you --   under
what circumstances
you intercept full packets, whose packets do you capture,  what
packets do you capture, how many packets / how long will you capture
their packets,   what do you do with their contents after you capture
them,  how long do you keep  data,  what security controls do you have
in place  to prevent unauthorized   access to their packets  and
ensure timely destruction of sensitive data?


If the answer is NO,   that you   have poor planning,  or your privacy
practices are not solid enough to reveal to your customers  with
confidence,  then  save the money on consulting lawyers,  by choosing
NOT   to   implement   interception and capture of  full packets.

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Keegan Holley — 2012-05-24T23:12:08

On a lighter note, did you know that your company can hold some of us
liable depending on what advice we give you and how far you run with it.
 Just a thought...  Overall, I wouldn't choose nanog over
google/wikipedia/GROKLAW unless it is something really specific
operationally.  This isn't really one of those topics.  Any lawyer worth
his luxury sedan should be able to do his own research.  Most of the laws
were written by lawyers and judges that don't understand IP (Internet
Protocol or Intellectual Property) either so your legal team is in good
company.


2012/5/24 not common <notcommonmistakes< at >gmail.com>

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Keegan Holley — 2012-05-24T23:05:10

I've seen this come up on at least three different cop shows so I wouldn't
recommend it.  It's also not cool.  Packets wanna be free man.. ;)

Just my 2c


2012/5/24 not common <notcommonmistakes< at >gmail.com>

Re: ISPs and full packet inspection

Luke S. Crawford — 2012-05-24T21:25:58

Unless you are absolutely huge, and maybe even then, you need to worry
more about how your customers will perceive this than how law enforcement
will perceive this.   (I mean, you want to follow the law, sure, but
even if it's legal, if it cheeses the customers?  well, you have a 
problem.) More to the point, like most on this list, law
isn't my field. 

In my experience?  customers get really, really uncomfortable with you
doing, well, almost anything below the headers.  I was talking about doing
a inward facing snort IDS (to detect compromised hosts before I got complaints)
and got so far as a prototype where I shared the info I recorded about each
IP with the customer in question, but talking to customers?  this idea 
was extremely offensive, so the project was quashed.  

Now, generally speaking, customers are much more okay with you going through
the IP headers.  For instance, instead of using an IDS, I could, say, count
the number of outgoing connections destined for port 22 or 25, or the same
but count how many unique destinations they use (e.g. to avoid MX host 
or ssh tunneling false positives... both of those use cases would have
a lot of connections on those ports, but to a small number of remote hosts.)

From what I've heard customers say, this would likely cause less offense 
than using snort or the like to do full packet inspection.  (it wouldn't
be completely inoffensive, but I think that if I wiped the logs often
and shared my data with the customer, it sounds like something that
customers would tolerate.)  I haven't prototyped that system yet, 
though, so eh, who knows.

Re: Equinix Direct

bt — 2012-05-24T20:58:22

Bought and used ED at SV1 since mid-2004 I think.  I was running a consumer
website at the time.  I'm no longer with the company but when I checked
last year, they were still using it as a *backup* internet provider and
it's worked out well for them.  The biggest problem back then, and
currently, is the lack of larger ISPs.  At SV1 they had Global Crossing,
but the rest were basically mid-sized regional or national network
providers like Hurricane Electric.

The process for using it:
1) Purchase the service
2) Get the connect to ED, hook up to your equipment
3) You will establish a BGP neighbor relationship with the ED route servers
only, regardless of how many actual network providers you configure,
4) Use a web interface to pick the providers you want,
 - it'll be arranged as a matrix where you can choose commit rates (they
start at "0" for a lot of providers) and the resulting price, as well as
terms (which also start at "none").
 - also depending on provider, some will do DIA (direct internet access) or
just on-net (just their, and their direct customer's networks), or both.
 Make sure you know what service you're purchasing and that it matches your
design.
5) Modify or apply any routing policies you want specific for the providers
you've chosen,
6) Start pushing packets.

Though you peer with Equinix Direct and not the provider's router, of
course ED strips their ASN and you don't see it in the path attribute.  You
may or may not be able to set attributes like community or MED with the
providers; I don't know because we never used them in that capacity.   It
was strictly a backup circuit for us and so we set local-pref and path
prepending and left it at that.

We occasionally had problems with our primary service providers and the ED
service would work great.  External monitoring (a la Gomez or Keynote)
wouldn't catch a thing and no customer (internal or external) complaints
ever bubbled up to me.  During contract negotiations with our primary
provider, we ran on Global Crossing through ED for 1-2 months with no
problems.

For on-demand bandwidth with no commit and no contracts required, and if
you're already in an Equinix data center, I think it's a very nice service.

bt

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Tim Durack <tdurack< at >gmail.com> wrote:

[NANOG-announce] NANOG 55 Update

2012-05-24T20:52:08

*NANOGers* do not miss out. NANOG 55 is Quickly Approaching!

For those who have not yet registered, please note:

   - *http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog55/nanog55_registration.html*
   - Late Registration starting May 28, 2012 (non-member $600, member $575,
   student $100)
   - On-Site Registration starting June 3, 2012 (non-member $675, member
   $650, student $100)

For those needing to make your hotel reservations, the Westin Bayshore,
Vancouver does have availability; Phone: (604) 682-3377 or visit
https://www.starwoodmeeting.com/StarGroupsWeb/booking/reservation?id=1110270761&key=424C7

The NANOG 55 *Agenda is complete and posted at
http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog55/socials.html*

*Lighting Talk Submissions Open (Abstracts Only), May 28, 2012*

And of course you will not want to miss on the ever popular *NANOG Socials
http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog55/socials.html*

Thank you to all our speakers, sponsors, NANOG committee members, and staff
who working to make NANOG 55 a reality!

Hope to see everyone in Vancouver!

Sincerely,
Betty