gmane.mail.imap.cyrus

Re: User tags lost

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-24T15:11:19

It's a pity this isn't working, because it really is a good way to
organise things.

Another alternative is to move them into folders instead, which is
what many people do.  It has an advantage of making everything
faster with smaller folders.
 

Sure.


You're welcome.  I'm sorry that it is like this.  I have a couple of
potential ideas - one of which is just to strip unused tags from the
header file.  Another is to allow "extended flags" by setting a bit
in the message options which says "there's more flags in the cache
file, go read them from there".

None of which helps users of current versions of Cyrus of course :(

Bron.
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Re: User tags lost

Tom Plancon — 2012-05-24T14:23:20

 mond_va 10167_cityctr_houston-tx 10055_lenox-atlanta-ga 10043_waterside-fl 10165_galleria-houston-tx 10169_shortpump_richmond-va 09145_mallofamerica_mn 10101_millenia-orlando-fl 10042_eaton-
 ctr-tor
onto 09144_scottsdale-az 10166_uvpk-fortworth-tx 10054_halifax-nova-scotla 10027_easton-oh 10183_streets< at >southpoint_durham-nc 10185_summit_birmingham-al 10067_johnsonst-victoriabc 10171_freckleface-milwaukee-wi 210206_doman-austin-tx 210216_kenwood 211000_madisona-nyc 211000_halstead_il 211000_grandave.-st.paul 211010_tampa-fl 211010_aventura-fl 211012_harboreast-md 11025_66th&-3rd-nyc 11026_new-hyde-_cincinatti-oh 11027_highland-tx-reno 11032_lakeshore-oakville-on 11045_lincoln-rd_fl 11068_u-village_seatle 11080_meatpacking-nyc 11082_bethesda-md_reno 11083_oldhydepark-tampa 11086_cherry-creek_denver-co 11087_abq-uptown-nw 11091_hingham-derby-shops 11088_newburyst_boston 11103_studio-city_al-ca 11090_grantave_sanfran 11105_burlington-mall 11100-farington-ct 11106_ross-park_pittsburgh 11107
 _villagepointe_omaha-ne 11108_garden-city_ri 11109_metrotwon_van-bc 11110_southport-chicago-il 11111_ridgehill_westchester-ny 11126_4thst.-calgary-ab 11122_palm_desert-ca 11123_kingsway_edmo
 nton 111
31_union-square-nyc 11128_ivivva-chinook 11127_ivivva-park-royal 11135_lincoln-rd-fl 11140_southport-addison_chicago-il 11032_lakeshor-oakvile-on 11141_ivivva_lakeshore_oakvile-on 11147_somerset-troy-mi 11157_burlington 11158_natick-reno 11159_mallofamerica-storefront 11160_kingst-charleston-sc 11163_upperwestside_nyc 11164__aventura_reno_storefront 11163_upper-west-side_nyc 11171_meat-packing_nyc 11169_carrefour-laval_qa 11181_park-royal_west-van-bc 11175_clarendon-arlington-reno 11184_college-ave_berkley_ca_reno 11185_lincoln-square_nyc_reno 11186_roosevelt-field_ny_reno 11187_greenwich_ct_reno 11195_regalia-memphis-tn 11194_austrailan_testfit_ 11203_brooklyn_nyc 11204_westchester_white-plains-ny)
 hortpump-richmond_va 10167_cityctr_houston-tx 10055_lenox-atlanta-ga 10043_waterside-fl 10165_galleria-houston-tx 10169_shortpump_richmond-va 09145_mallofamerica_mn 10101_millenia-orlando-fl
  10042_
eaton-ctr-toronto 09144_scottsdale-az 10166_uvpk-fortworth-tx 10054_halifax-nova-scotla 10027_easton-oh 10183_streets< at >southpoint_durham-nc 10185_summit_birmingham-al 10067_johnsonst-victoriabc 10171_freckleface-milwaukee-wi 210206_doman-austin-tx 210216_kenwood 211000_madisona-nyc 211000_halstead_il 211000_grandave.-st.paul 211010_tampa-fl 211010_aventura-fl 211012_harboreast-md 11025_66th&-3rd-nyc 11026_new-hyde-_cincinatti-oh 11027_highland-tx-reno 11032_lakeshore-oakville-on 11045_lincoln-rd_fl 11068_u-village_seatle 11080_meatpacking-nyc 11082_bethesda-md_reno 11083_oldhydepark-tampa 11086_cherry-creek_denver-co 11087_abq-uptown-nw 11091_hingham-derby-shops 11088_newburyst_boston 11103_studio-city_al-ca 11090_grantave_sanfran 11105_burlington-mall 11100-farington-ct 11106_ross-park_pit
 tsburgh 11107_villagepointe_omaha-ne 11108_garden-city_ri 11109_metrotwon_van-bc 11110_southport-chicago-il 11111_ridgehill_westchester-ny 11126_4thst.-calgary-ab 11122_palm_desert-ca 11123_
 kingsway
_edmonton 11131_union-square-nyc 11128_ivivva-chinook 11127_ivivva-park-royal 11135_lincoln-rd-fl 11140_southport-addison_chicago-il 11032_lakeshor-oakvile-on 11141_ivivva_lakeshore_oakvile-on 11147_somerset-troy-mi 11157_burlington 11158_natick-reno 11159_mallofamerica-storefront 11160_kingst-charleston-sc 11163_upperwestside_nyc 11164__aventura_reno_storefront 11163_upper-west-side_nyc 11171_meat-packing_nyc 11169_carrefour-laval_qa 11181_park-royal_west-van-bc 11175_clarendon-arlington-reno 11184_college-ave_berkley_ca_reno 11185_lincoln-square_nyc_reno 11186_roosevelt-field_ny_reno 11187_greenwich_ct_reno 11195_regalia-memphis-tn 11194_austrailan_testfit_ 11203_brooklyn_nyc 11204_westchester_white-plains-ny)]

Bron,

Wow! That explains a lot! The user currently has about 40 tags she made 
to organize her email for current projects, and she has been using this 
practice for over 3 years!

I'm not sure if we'll attempt the repair as you suggested. Probably just 
abandon using tags and the user will come up with a new way of 
organizing her email. I will forewarn other users who may think this is 
a good method of organizing.

Thanks again for your knowledge and patience on this! All very helpful 
and interesting!

Best wishes!

Re: User tags lost

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-24T05:58:38

Cool.


The output is fine - BUT, here's the problem.  Cyrus has a hard limit
of 128 "user flags" per mailbox, and they're not recyclable.  Once
you have created that many flags, you're stuck - you can't create any
more.

If that user is creating more in Thunderbird, it's probably only
storing them locally and failing to upload them to the server - which
is probably only working by accident and not how it's designed to work.

What a mess!

The only solution I can offer for now is "use fewer tags".  To clean
them out, you can create a new empty folder and copy the messages
across.  That works for everything other than INBOX.  For INBOX it's
harder - you pretty much need to create a new folder, copy the messages
into it, delete the cyrus.header file for the INBOX and reconstruct,
then copy the messages back.  Ouch.

Bron ( that's assuming most of these tags were used in the past, but are
       not on any existing messages )


 ond_va 10167_cityctr_houston-tx 10055_lenox-atlanta-ga 10043_waterside-fl 10165_galleria-houston-tx 10169_shortpump_richmond-va 09145_mallofamerica_mn 10101_millenia-orlando-fl 10042_eaton-!
 ctr-toronto 09144_scottsdale-az 10166_uvpk-fortworth-tx 10054_halifax-nova-scotla 10027_easton-oh 10183_streets< at >southpoint_durham-nc 10185_summit_birmingham-al 10067_johnsonst-victoriabc 10171_freckleface-milwaukee-wi 210206_doman-austin-tx 210216_kenwood 211000_madisona-nyc 211000_halstead_il 211000_grandave.-st.paul 211010_tampa-fl 211010_aventura-fl 211012_harboreast-md 11025_66th&-3rd-nyc 11026_new-hyde-_cincinatti-oh 11027_highland-tx-reno 11032_lakeshore-oakville-on 11045_lincoln-rd_fl 11068_u-village_seatle 11080_meatpacking-nyc 11082_bethesda-md_reno 11083_oldhydepark-tampa 11086_cherry-creek_denver-co 11087_abq-uptown-nw 11091_hingham-derby-shops 11088_newburyst_boston 11103_studio-city_al-ca 11090_grantave_sanfran 11105_burlington-mall 11100-farington-ct 11106_ross-park_pittsbur
 gh 11107_villagepointe_omaha-ne 11108_garden-city_ri 11109_metrotwon_van-bc 11110_southport-chicago-il 11111_ridgehill_westchester-ny 11126_4thst.-calgary-ab 11122_palm_desert-ca 11123_king!
 sway_edmonton 11131_union-square-nyc 11128_ivivva-chinook 11127_ivivva
-park-royal 11135_lincoln-rd-fl 11140_southport-addison_chicago-il 11032_lakeshor-oakvile-on 11141_ivivva_lakeshore_oakvile-on 11147_somerset-troy-mi 11157_burlington 11158_natick-reno 11159_mallofamerica-storefront 11160_kingst-charleston-sc 11163_upperwestside_nyc 11164__aventura_reno_storefront 11163_upper-west-side_nyc 11171_meat-packing_nyc 11169_carrefour-laval_qa 11181_park-royal_west-van-bc 11175_clarendon-arlington-reno 11184_college-ave_berkley_ca_reno 11185_lincoln-square_nyc_reno 11186_roosevelt-field_ny_reno 11187_greenwich_ct_reno 11195_regalia-memphis-tn 11194_austrailan_testfit_ 11203_brooklyn_nyc 11204_westchester_white-plains-ny)
 ortpump-richmond_va 10167_cityctr_houston-tx 10055_lenox-atlanta-ga 10043_waterside-fl 10165_galleria-houston-tx 10169_shortpump_richmond-va 09145_mallofamerica_mn 10101_millenia-orlando-fl!
  10042_eaton-ctr-toronto 09144_scottsdale-az 10166_uvpk-fortworth-tx 10054_halifax-nova-scotla 10027_easton-oh 10183_streets< at >southpoint_durham-nc 10185_summit_birmingham-al 10067_johnsonst-victoriabc 10171_freckleface-milwaukee-wi 210206_doman-austin-tx 210216_kenwood 211000_madisona-nyc 211000_halstead_il 211000_grandave.-st.paul 211010_tampa-fl 211010_aventura-fl 211012_harboreast-md 11025_66th&-3rd-nyc 11026_new-hyde-_cincinatti-oh 11027_highland-tx-reno 11032_lakeshore-oakville-on 11045_lincoln-rd_fl 11068_u-village_seatle 11080_meatpacking-nyc 11082_bethesda-md_reno 11083_oldhydepark-tampa 11086_cherry-creek_denver-co 11087_abq-uptown-nw 11091_hingham-derby-shops 11088_newburyst_boston 11103_studio-city_al-ca 11090_grantave_sanfran 11105_burlington-mall 11100-farington-ct 11106_ross-
 park_pittsburgh 11107_villagepointe_omaha-ne 11108_garden-city_ri 11109_metrotwon_van-bc 11110_southport-chicago-il 11111_ridgehill_westchester-ny 11126_4thst.-calgary-ab 11122_palm_desert-!
 ca 11123_kingsway_edmonton 11131_union-square-nyc 11128_ivivva-chinook
 11127_ivivva-park-royal 11135_lincoln-rd-fl 11140_southport-addison_chicago-il 11032_lakeshor-oakvile-on 11141_ivivva_lakeshore_oakvile-on 11147_somerset-troy-mi 11157_burlington 11158_natick-reno 11159_mallofamerica-storefront 11160_kingst-charleston-sc 11163_upperwestside_nyc 11164__aventura_reno_storefront 11163_upper-west-side_nyc 11171_meat-packing_nyc 11169_carrefour-laval_qa 11181_park-royal_west-van-bc 11175_clarendon-arlington-reno 11184_college-ave_berkley_ca_reno 11185_lincoln-square_nyc_reno 11186_roosevelt-field_ny_reno 11187_greenwich_ct_reno 11195_regalia-memphis-tn 11194_austrailan_testfit_ 11203_brooklyn_nyc 11204_westchester_white-plains-ny)]  

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Re: User tags lost

Tom Plancon — 2012-05-23T18:53:19

Bron,

Thank you for your patience with this! It is really appreciated!

After stumbling through the telnet/IMAP syntax I finally got in, a good 
learning experience!

The output of the SELECT for the user who is having the biggest issue 
with this is extensive, so I've attached it as a text file. I do see the 
"$Label1, $Label2, etc." as you said but also a lot of text which I 
assume are the tags the user has made.

The question is, other than the excessive use of tags, is there anything 
else wrong with this output?

Re: User tags lost

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-23T16:59:52

Via IMAP.  If you can get Thunderbird to show you a protocol trace you'll
definitely get one there.

Otherwise:

telnet $server 143
. login $username $password
. select inbox
. logout

Should do just fine.  It will need to be done as a user who has the problem.

You can also inspect the cyrus.header file for that user directly, but it's
trickier to read than the output of SELECT.

Bron.
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Re: User tags lost

Patrick Boutilier — 2012-05-23T15:45:58

You need to telnet to port 143 of your server and enter this command 
including the dot and with a real userid and password.

. login userid password


Then enter:

. select inbox
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Re: User tags lost

Tom Plancon — 2012-05-23T15:45:44

Bron,
Now I'm really in over my head. Not familiar with "select" command. That 
does not appear to be in the "cyradm" commands. How would I get to that?

Re: User tags lost

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-23T15:01:04

No, that's not likely to be it.

What's the output when you select the mailbox? 

This is the kind of things I get:

. select inbox
* 7925 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen hasnoatt hasatt selected medeleted NonJunk receipt-handled KMAILFORWARDED KMAILTODO KMAILWATCHED KMAILIGNORED $FORWARDED $TODO $WATCHED $IGNORED hasnotd hastd Old $NotJunk $Junk Junk $X-ME-Annot-1 $HasAttachment $IsMailingList $X-ME-Annot-2 $HasTD $IsNotification)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen hasnoatt hasatt selected medeleted NonJunk receipt-handled KMAILFORWARDED KMAILTODO KMAILWATCHED KMAILIGNORED $FORWARDED $TODO $WATCHED $IGNORED hasnotd hastd Old $NotJunk $Junk Junk $X-ME-Annot-1 $HasAttachment $IsMailingList $X-ME-Annot-2 $HasTD $IsNotification \*)] Ok
* OK [UNSEEN 7924] Ok
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 1148523981] Ok
* OK [UIDNEXT 922311] Ok
* OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 295339131819983] Ok
* OK [URLMECH INTERNAL] Ok
* OK [ANNOTATIONS 65536] Ok
. OK [READ-WRITE] Completed

The "FLAGS" and "PERMANENTFLAGS" responses will tell you if the
mailbox has forgotten about the flags, or if they've been cleared
by something.

I expect from Thunderbird you will see things like $Label1, $Label2,
etc.

Another possibility is some bogus client sending STORE FLAGS rather
than STORE +FLAGS when it wants to set something.

Bron.
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Re: User tags lost

Tom Plancon — 2012-05-23T14:37:37

The only IOERROR I see is related to "fstating sieve script" for some 
users. Any other possibilities?

Thanks!

Re: In preparation of Cyrus IMAP 2.5: autoconf and automake

Andrew Morgan — 2012-05-22T19:49:49


Good enough for me then!

 Andy
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libzephyr and notifications

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-22T07:40:05

We're having issues building zephyr with the new automake stuff,
and before we spend too much time fixing it - there's a question
worth asking...


Does anyone actually use zephyr?


If not, I'd prefer to remove it and integrate worldline's notification
bus work rather than having multiple competing notification systems.


Bron.

Re: In preparation of Cyrus IMAP 2.5: autoconf and automake

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-21T20:57:06

We'll probably keep shipping releases with the configure script - but if you're
building from git you need to do the whole dance.

Bron.
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Re: User tags lost

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-21T20:55:26

IOERROR is a good start.

Bron.
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Re: In preparation of Cyrus IMAP 2.5: autoconf and automake

Andrew Morgan — 2012-05-21T19:03:31


Why is autoreconf/autoconf required?

I have been building Cyrus from source for many years.  The tarballs 
already come with the configure script, so I have never needed to install 
the autoconf package before.

 Andy
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Re: User tags lost

Tom Plancon — 2012-05-21T18:56:06

Bron,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I am using 2.3.16!
I believe all of the Cyrus logging is into /var/log/maillog. I inherited 
this config. What would I look for in maillog?
Thanks.

Re: unsubscribe

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-21T14:33:06


On Mon, May 21, 2012, at 02:27 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote:

No worries.  I realise the law is often an ass


There is.  And I would love to see you stand up in a court of law
and explain why you thought this mailing list was breaking it.

Bron ( P.S. [citation needed]  Please point to a legal opinion which is not your
       own which states that a standards compliant List-Unsubscribe header is not
       sufficient.  Bonus points if it's been tested in court )

Re: unsubscribe

Ian Eiloart — 2012-05-21T14:27:33

Thanks for your considered contribution. It's nice to know we're in such good company on this list. 





It's the law in the EU. There's an amazingly good reason for it. It's best if email professionals understand (a) the law, and (b) what is meant by "easy to use" with respect to email.

Re: unsubscribe

Bron Gondwana — 2012-05-21T14:08:54

On Mon, May 21, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote:

Man - I'm in the EU, and I'm firmly of the opinion "feck off protolawyer".

This is a technical discussion list for users of the software, and you
signed up for it.  It's using THE standard mechanism for detailing how
to unsubscribe.

Short of reaching down through the screen and physically punching you in
the face, I can't see how in particular we are supposed to account for the
deficiencies of the client you choose to use.

Bron ( somewhat annoyed that there's no nice web management interface for the
       list unless you're a CMU user, but still )

Re: unsubscribe

Ian Eiloart — 2012-05-21T12:13:25

Apple Mail, actually. But, it doesn't matter. Neither displays the List-Unsubscribe header by default, or presents the unsubscribe options. And, I doubt that most users would find the option in a menu; it would have to be displayed as a button in the default display. Ideally, such a button would be displayed with the message headers.

As long as most users don't have easy access to the List-Unsubscribe header (Outlook, Apple Mail, etc), then the List-Unsubscribe header can't satisfy the legal requirements of the UK, and most EU countries: that marketing (and this list markets Cyrus mail - at least in the meaning of the legislation) emails must carry an easy to use address for unsubscribing.


Yes, that would be nice. Unfortunately, the most popular clients don't.



I'm afraid it is. I'm forever having to teach people that there are more than four headers in an email. Most people just don't know the others are there.

Re: unsubscribe

Adam Tauno Williams — 2012-05-21T11:49:23

This behavior has been *standard* for decades.  A good mail client even
provides an option - I view a message from the Cyrus list in Evolution
and Message -> Maillist -> Unsubscribe is right there as an option.

You are using Exchange [ + Outlook? ];  so I'm pretty sure that option
is there on your screen somewhere.


You mail client should recognize the presence of this header and provide
an option.   And looking at message headers is hardly a 'profession'
level action.
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Re: unsubscribe

Ian Eiloart — 2012-05-21T11:32:19


Using the mechansims described in the List-Unsubscribe header:

List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/info-cyrus>,  <mailto:info-cyrus-request< at >lists.andrew.cmu.edu?subject=unsubscribe>

Having said that, European Union countries usually require that the mechanisms be easy to use. In my view, that means that they should be described in the message footer (not hidden in a header). The more obvious paths from the URLs listed in the footer require cyrus.edu accounts for unsubscription.

The argument that list members ought to be able to find the List-Unsubscribe header because they're email professionals doesn't wash. It can't be presumed that they all are, and those that aren't will be wanting to unsubscribe.