gmane.lisp.ccrma.general

Re: slippery chicken release

Juan Reyes — 2012-05-25T15:02:18


It is very useful for me and I know several of us!.

As time goes by, I still discover stuff worth paying attention to.


Agree with Michael. Different beasts for different purposes, although
same algorithms can be used with not too similar results.

  --* Juan

Re: slippery chicken release

Michael Edwards — 2012-05-25T10:36:51

Hi István,


That's right.


Thanks.  It's a monster.  Hope it's going to be useful to some people here.


Because afaik CM3 is now no longer in Common Lisp but in Scheme.


That's true too.


It really just was a language thing.  Having worked on SC in CLOS
since 2000 it wouldn't be a simple thing to port it.  I haven't looked
into CLOS->Scheme in any detail but when I did a while ago it didn't
seem trivial.  Rick did it though (and Bill too from Common Lisp at
least, I assume) so I'd be interested in the process. Certainly the
embedding potential of Scheme is very attractive.


Well the thing to bear in mind is that I don't see CM and SC as being
the same beast at all.  AFAIK CM is now really aimed at real-time algo
comp whereas SC is very much not real-time and is focussed on
generating complete pieces in quite a specific way.  I'm very curious
to find out if that particular way is too restrictive for other
composers or not.

Cheers, Michael

Re: slippery chicken release

István Lakatos — 2012-05-25T10:17:24

Well, from what I can gather slippery chicken uses a 2.6 version of
Common Music. Great piece of software, by the way :)

What I would be interested in knowing is why you chose this older
version instead of Common Music 3. Was it because you started working
on slippery chicken before 3.0 came out, or was it because you
preferred to work in Common Lisp instead of Scheme. Or did 3.0 bring
in some changes that didn't play well with the design of slippery
chicken?

I am asking because I am planning on working on a music and sound
editor/composition environment for my graduation thesis next year, and
am thinking of using Common Music as a component.

Good day,
István Lakatos

On 25 May 2012 12:48, Torsten Anders <torsten.anders-nRKTKYnHphK1Qrn1Bg8BZw< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: slippery chicken release

Torsten Anders — 2012-05-25T09:48:28

Dear Michael,

Great news! (And great to see that you go quite some AHRC grant for that recently.)

Just a question: you say that this software is written in Common Lisp, and in the credits you say that Common Music is packaged with it. Does that mean you are using some older version of Common Music?

Best wishes,
Torsten

--
Dr Torsten Anders
Course Leader, Music Technology
University of Bedfordshire
Park Square, Room A315
http://www.torsten-anders.de

PS: Also, you are saying clearly that you do not plan an graphical user interface for this software. Nevertheless, likely it would be relatively easy to turn your whole software into a library for PWGL or OpenMusic. If you still have some resources left from your AHRC grant then doing so could greatly strengthen your impact (good for your REF and may even be helpful for the next grant application). It is easy, because every Lisp function such as make-slippery-chicken can be immediately used as a GUI object (box) in a PWGL or OpenMusic patch. If you want, you can further customise the graphical interface of central functions (e.g., have a menu to define a certain function argument). Such customisation can be available (to a certain extent) for both PWGL and OpenMusic at the same time when u
sing OMPW (https://github.com/kisp/ompw).

The advantage for yourself could be that you get graphical editors such as a BPF editor (basically an envelope editor, could be useful, e.g., for your pitch curves), and -- perhaps more importantly -- music notation editors (e.g., check out the ENP editor of PWGL). Score snippets can be arranged in time using OpenMusic's maquette etc. You may also want to use existing PWGL or OpenMusic libraries together with your own work.

For a more advanced used of such features you would need to have a conversation of your music representation (your slippery chicken object) into the OpenMusic / PWGL music representation. You already did something similar when defining your Lilypond interface (likely you are using Fomus, which makes this interface much more simple to define), so you know that such score format conversation is not defined on a single day, but is not too complex either.

Anyway, you are probably still not interested :)

On 24 May 2012, at 19:04, Michael Edwards wrote:

slippery chicken release

Michael Edwards — 2012-05-24T18:04:57

It is with great pleasure that I announce the open-source release of my
algorithmic composition software "slippery chicken":
http://www.michael-edwards.org/sc/

Please feel free to re-post to any potentially interested colleagues, students
or mailing lists.

Workshops introducing the software will be held in Edinburgh, UK, and
Karlsruhe, Germany, in July 2012:
http://www.michael-edwards.org/sc/workshops.html

"slippery chicken" is an open-source algorithmic composition system written in
Common Lisp which enables a top-down approach to music composition. The
software was originally tailor-made to encapsulate the author's personal
composition techniques, however many general-purpose algorithmic composition
tools have been programmed that should be useful to a range of composers. The
main goal of the project is to facilitate a melding of electronic and
instrumental sound worlds, not just at the sonic but also at the structural
level. Pure instrumental or electronic composition is of course possible with
the system too. Techniques for the innovative combination of rhythm and pitch
data--arguably one of the most difficult aspects of making convincing musical
algorithms--are offered.

Anyone interested in discussing the software is encouraged to join the Google
Group http://groups.google.com/group/slippery-chicken

Best wishes,

        Michael Edwards



___________________________________________

michael edwards

office : (+44) (0)131 650 2431
mobile : (+44) (0)7952 153750

michael.edwards-5WhEfG1TI8k< at >public.gmane.org

MSc in Digital Composition and Performance
    http://michael-edwards.org/dcp
University of Edinburgh
    http://michael-edwards.org/uofe
Personal homepage
    http://www.michael-edwards.org
___________________________________________

a neat picture

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-05-22T13:13:54

r/lisp has this:

http://twitpic.com/9nild1

I grew up in that country -- suddenly I remember my first
reaction to the Bay Area -- all these hills ruining the view!

problem compiling cm-3.8.0

Bill Sack — 2012-05-22T00:03:03

hi all,
compiling cm-3.8 in linux (fedora 16) and all goes well until down at this
linker:
/usr/bin/ld: obj/juce/libjuce.a(juce_amalgamated.o): undefined reference to
symbol 'dladdr< at >< at >GLIBC_2.0'
/usr/bin/ld: note: 'dladdr< at >< at >GLIBC_2.0' is defined in DSO /lib/libdl.so.2 so
try adding it to the linker command line
/lib/libdl.so.2: could not read symbols: Invalid operation
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

i added "-ldl -lXext" to all 3 makefiles and got a little farther, but ran
into this:

g++  -MMD -D "JUCE_IOS=0" -D "JUCE_QUICKTIME=0" -D "JUCE_OPENGL=0" -D
"JUCE_USE_FLAC=0" -D "JUCE_USE_OGGVORBIS=0" -D "JUCE_USE_CDBURNER=0" -D
"JUCE_USE_CDREADER=0" -D "JUCE_WEBBROWSER=0" -D "JUCE_CHECK_MEMORY_LEAKS=0"
-D "JUCE_JACK=1" -D "COMMONMUSIC=1" -D "GRACE=1" -D "WITH_SNDLIB=1" -D
"WITH_FOMUS=1" -D "FOMUSLIBPATH=\"/usr/local/lib\"" -D
"SVNVERSION=\"`/usr/bin/svnversion`\"" -D "LINUX=1" -D "NDEBUG=1" -I "src"
-I "../sndlib/" -I "/usr/local/include"  -O2 -o
"obj/grace/Release/AudioFilePlayer.o" -c "src/AudioFilePlayer.cpp"
src/AudioFilePlayer.cpp: In constructor
‘AudioFilePlayer::AudioFilePlayer(juce::AudioDeviceManager&)’:
src/AudioFilePlayer.cpp:20:36: error: cannot call constructor
‘juce::Font::Font’ directly [-fpermissive]
src/AudioFilePlayer.cpp:20:36: error:   for a function-style cast, remove
the redundant ‘::Font’ [-fpermissive]
make[1]: *** [obj/grace/Release/AudioFilePlayer.o] Error 1
make: *** [grace] Error 2

my g++ is version 4.6.3

i think everything else is up-to-date - fresh check-out of sndlib, fomus,
etc.
can anyone help?

thanks!
bill
_______________________________________________
Cmdist mailing list
Cmdist-l0SEpsmuUtBegcJQxxnBRDe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
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Snd 12.11

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-05-21T19:16:31

Snd 12.11:

  s7: if WITH_SYSTEM_EXTRAS is 1 (default is 0) include
        directory? file-exists? delete-file getenv directory->list system
      with-baffle to limit the scope of continuations
      #_<name> is the initial (built-in, startup) value of <name>
      *error-info* replaced by error-environment, stacktrace changed slightly.
      hooks changed completely (s7 version bumped to 2.0 since this is a
        large backwards imcompatible change).
      procedure-setter is settable, so most of the old procedure-with-setter
        stuff is gone.
      s7_list, s7_environment_ref|set, s7_procedure_set_setter in s7.h.
      make-type replaced by open-environment. s7test.scm has a largely backwards
        compatible scheme version of make-type.
      aritable? to check arity match (named "procedure-arity-includes" in srfi-102).
      arity to generalize and replace procedure-arity
      removed trace and untrace (replaced by the trace macro in s7.html).
      I think these changes clean up most of the lingering ugly spots in s7!

  sndlib: removed mus-audio-describe, audinfo, ESD audio support.

  Snd: removed print-hook.

checked: sbcl 1.0.56, gtk 3.4.1|3.5.2, autoconf 2.69, ruby 1.9.3-p194, cairo 1.12.2
         gmp 5.0.5

Thanks!: Ludger Brummer, Torsten Anders, Mike Scholz, Rick Taube, Peter Bex.

Re: comment semicolon bug?

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-05-21T10:53:23

The example works for me (in Snd/s7) in either case, but I'm
running in unix, and perhaps the mailer translated something.
I currently look for \n for end-of-line which I think should
work in any current OS -- I can add \r if that's what is needed.
What character marks the end of the line in your source?

comment semicolon bug?

Michael Winkler — 2012-05-21T09:41:01

Dear Mister Taube
Dear List

CM 3.8.0, Scheme (and earlier, I think): It seems to me that a just a 
single semicolon in a bunch of variable definitions occurs an error so 
one can't place comments. A bug?

test, remove the semicolon at "define m67", test again:

(define m72 '(ef3 ef3 ef3 f3 e3 f3 cs3 cs3 d3 cs4 d3 d3))
(define r72 '(e e e e  e e e e  s s s s ))
(define m71 '(c4 c4 c4 c4 c4 c4 c4 c5))
(define r71 '(s e e e e e s e+e))
(define m70 '(g3 c3 c3 g3  f3 d3 f3 ef3  d3 d3 bf3 ef3))
(define r70 '(s s s s  s s s s  e e e e))
(define m69 '(af4 f4 af3 ef4  f4 c5 cs4 f4))
(define r69 '(s s e s  q e. e. e))
(define m68 '(f4 cs4 f4 cs4 f4 ef4 ef4 ef4 ef4))
(define r68 '(e s e s e  e e e e))
(define m67 '(f4 fs3 d3 cs4 b3 e4 d3));
(define r67 '(e s s s s s s ))
(define m66 '(c4 fs4 c4 ef4 fs4))
(define r66 '(e e e. s e+e))

best,
Michael Winkler

Re: Typing Foreign Letters in CMN Text

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-05-09T15:58:54

The \\ddd business turns into \ddd in the postscript output, and
represents an octal index into the font, so \\374 is character 252
of the font.  If I type

(format #f "~C" (integer->char 252))

in the Snd listener, it displays a u-umlaut, using the "9x15" font,
apparently.  You can change the font via

(set! (listener-font) ...) 

where the ... depends on whether you're using Motif or Gtk.
I haven't googled for it, but I would be surprised if the font
encoding charts were not on-line somewhere.

Typing Foreign Letters in CMN Text

JEFFREY ZIMMER — 2012-05-09T01:15:31

My question pertains to CMN -

Among the sample .cmn files I received with my CMN download is one  
called mir.cmn.  This example spells the German word gluck (with an  
umlaut on the u) as "gl\\374ck"  I have not been successful in  
figuring how to use this kind of numeric font encoding on my Mac G5  
(OSX 10.5.8) using the fonts on the machine, although "Times-Roman"  
and "Times-Italic" do work just fine as the font-name keywords in  
CMN.  I would like to include accents and umlauts in the Times font  
like in mir.cmn.  Is there a way to exploit the full font set on a Mac  
with numeric codes?  Has anybody done this?

Thanks,

Jeff Zimmer

s7/Snd hooks

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-05-06T11:59:35

I'd like to change the way hooks work in s7/Snd.  Here's a
description:

    https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/snd/s7.html#hooks

I would keep the old way working for *error-hook*, but otherwise
all the s7_hook functions would either go away or change
in some backwards-incompatible manner.  Would this be
a huge burden for anyone?

(It also means changing the scheme hook functions, but there's a
wrapper for that in s7.html).

Re: sndlib ESD support

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-05-02T17:41:08

I'm replying to myself, which is not a good sign, but this won't work
after all.  If you're using the default setup in Fedora, you're
using ALSA with the default device "pulse" which goes to pulseaudio,
which can't work in this way.  So, I gain nothing by making any
changes! I did at least get rid of the OSX deprecated function warnings.

sndlib ESD support

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-04-30T19:11:56

It appears that the Enlightened Sound Daemon is no longer
supported.  Would it be a problem if I remove support for it
from sndlib?  How about OSS?  Sun?  HPUX?

Also, in the 10 or 20 years since the audio stuff was first
implemented, audio hardware, and OS support of it, has
changed a lot.  I'd like to remove all the input functions,
and the hardware state descriptors, and change the output
functions to be purely callback-driven.  So, 95% of audio.c
would go away, along with rtio.scm, play.scm, oscope.scm,
and various other such stuff.  How important is audio
input to anyone (in Snd, or CLM)?

Re: harp glissando, octave-up

Bill Schottstaedt — 2012-04-25T20:08:09

Are you looking for the wavy line glissando mark?  If so, 
include (wavy-line t) as an argument to begin-glissando.
The dy message to octave-up seems to work for me:

(cmn staff treble
    (c6 32nd (begin-octave-up (dy 1.0))) (bf5 32nd) (af5 32nd) (fs5 32nd) 
    (e5 q (begin-glissando (wavy-line t)) begin-tremolo) 
    (bass (end-octave-up)) 
    (c3 q end-glissando end-tremolo) 
    )

harp glissando, octave-up

René Bastian — 2012-04-25T18:54:42

Hi Bill,

I try to write a harp glissando (it's not easy :)
----------------------------
     quarter-rest eighth-rest  
     (c6 32nd (begin-octave-up)) (bf5 32nd) (af5 32nd) (fs5 32nd)
     (e5 q (begin-glissando) begin-tremolo) 
     ; 006
     (bass (end-octave-up))
     (c3 q end-glissando end-tremolo) 
       quarter-rest quarter-rest 
     ; 007
----------------------------
- the octave transposition sign is too close to the note heads
( (begin-octave-up) does not accept  (dy ...))
- the harp glissando is not the classical notation

What's is your solution?

Re: Windows CM 3.8.0: Plugin graphs do not load correctly

Heinrich Taube — 2012-04-25T13:21:53

welcome to the wonderful world of software installation.
if you get it working please send me the steps so no one else has to  
go through what you are doing.

i dont understand why you need to set the define by hand. in my  
premake.lua i have:

    if vst then
       add(juce_config, "JUCE_PLUGINHOST_VST=1")
       add(juce_library.includepaths, vst)
    end

so that the vs2008 project file that builds cm should already have  
that  in it.



On Apr 25, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Pietari Seppänen wrote:

Re: Windows CM 3.8.0: Plugin graphs do not load correctly

Pietari Seppänen — 2012-04-25T12:53:46

This was a puzzle for someone who has never coded in C/C++ and never 
installed VS2008 Express, etc. Then I had to go to Steinberg's site and 
fight my way through it until I could download VST SDK 2.4. Then I had 
to add the directory I extracted that to VS2008's include directories. 
That still didn't do it for CM even when I changed the VST setting in 
juce_amalgamated to 1, but I could build the Plugin Host fine. I added 
these two lines to juce_amalgamated.h:

#undef  JUCE_PLUGINHOST_VST
   #define JUCE_PLUGINHOST_VST 1
/*** End of inlined file: juce_Config.h ***/

It was a hunch. I know nothing of C++, so I can't guess why, but that 
finally allowed me to build CM with VST support. I'll let you know later 
if I find I broke something.

Regards,

Pietari Seppänen

On 25.4.2012 15:20, Heinrich Taube wrote:

Re: Windows CM 3.8.0: Plugin graphs do not load correctly

Heinrich Taube — 2012-04-25T12:20:48

the cm/readme.text will tell you how to do the basic build on windows,  
you need to download  sources for sndlib and build that first
for cm you need premake (3) installed,  and then open the windows  
terminal and type someting like

premake --target vs2008 --vst /path/to/vststuff --sndlib /path/to/sndlib
it will look for
/path/to/vststuff/pluginterfaces/vst2.x/aeffect.h

where /path/to  is of course replaced by the correct directory on your  
machine. avoid spaces in your directory path or you invite trouble, i  
would put everthing in a top level director like

/software/sndlib
/software/cm

ive never tried to build plugin on windows so i expect you will  
encounter some issues to solve. but if your vst makes a toot in  
pluginhost then thats a good sign, cm isnt really doing anything other  
than what plugin host does.

Re: Windows CM 3.8.0: Plugin graphs do not load correctly

Pietari Seppänen — 2012-04-25T11:01:11

Well there is the problem! I did not see any warning that this would be 
the case. I will have to figure out how to compile the source. Thanks!

Regards,

Pietari Seppänen

On 25.4.2012 13:55, Heinrich Taube wrote: