gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel

Re: armel architecture info wanted

Oliver Grawert — 2008-11-29T14:01:33

armel architecture info wanted

Morten Kjeldgaard — 2008-11-29T13:54:19

Hi, Will someone with access to a machine running the armel platform please run the following commands: touch foo.c gcc -E -dM foo.c ... and post the output here? (Or perhaps even better, on the Wiki, where similar information from other platforms could be added). Thanks, Morten

The Mono 2.0 transition [Phase 1 complete: core stack]

Jo Shields — 2008-11-28T00:17:40

Re: /etc/motd template

Fabian Rodriguez — 2008-11-27T16:03:43

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I got this answer on our side (Canonical) from our legal counsel (Amanda Brock). I had ccd here on my previous post. "Wording is there for legal purposes and should remain. Warranty refers to the applicable statutory warrantie etc s. Please do not remove." My messages here are moderated so I may not be able to follow up on any discussion on the list itself. Hoping that helps. Cheers, Fabian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJJLsTaAAoJEFQP0XBCvjQJ+NQQAJu+jpoq+LU4UGTFoqcc/fCl Nmh320JdaHA5q3wMhjJzacBeJV9S112gXPWE11PMfgJBceSjKoHBjl+k57YvCFtU 06timrwlsqfUm9lrwZWWkmux6zynoTl34WgEmusyw2wSVNh08Ng/P4/uSkv6at9B k3yRv7eI3oYGPhlTt0AOVJmaPsEJEfVgsSCPXJV/i5ELdMagYOmBvYftdSTfXU5D Xl2GZd4q+LgSMqh6B3IzqoEk8SIdfWCYVUHCSVnG+AqVebYzxuUFy8bh2RIM48G9 TGeKYC5Ew5DMSzcx7lMzj1hfeGDG65eOa3M/gQfYoLbF1v+1k16f+DjREmHVxwV6 m+b2Ka87jMR719YIj+Mn8YjWA1SA9ylGE9wxPKkXHjY833xvd4CS5gc/Vt1hYEHH Vp/QQ1yQIZ/KyFaDnexEFamWDLMLGwPLg2aTv2b6d58JvGBb6sf00jr2xbaqE0L7 hhkyHp61p3ycO6Vn3mdpedPaf6wstJvNitta4VSkhiC1v90vOxFbtr+bWII6BrEz Ot5vI430oS9aZLovF/carFRXoyU4K+T2k8mJiuKYde/UF/W2U+dxzWlySjSzz1Ex 9YC8uL0Xif6MEN8byNnSVBxFkfssMTqwD7W4bYT/Gy6p0mNfpD+pO4jVpDIP+naw AScN6Bn9J69ZMRDoUDeq =aql0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Disclaimer

Christopher Armstrong — 2008-11-27T16:10:09

On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Amanda Brock canonical.com> wrote: I think this is kind of a weak argument when we *don't* display this information on graphical logins. What's so special about a login, that it requires the display of this legal information? And why is a textual login *particularly* special, compared to a GUI login?

Re: Disclaimer

Martin Pitt — 2008-11-27T21:12:27

Matthew East [2008-11-27 20:50 +0000]: I fully agree, with my admittedly naive and ignorant user hat on. To you lawyers it might come across rude and surprising, but in fact usually when I log into a remote system, the first thing that I want to do and chek is _not_ reading licenses and usage privileges. As long as I can run it from my ssh session, I don't care about legalese. :-) And if I can't, well, then I can still read error messages and copyright files to figure it out. However, in its current form I agree that motd is just rather uninteresting. For one it's boilerplate, and also I guess few admins will actually update it everytime they actually install a piece of proprietary software. Martin

Re: Disclaimer

Matthew East — 2008-11-27T20:50:51

I got thinking about this distinction a bit further, looked into some basic software law and read the GPL properly. What I said in the paragraph above isn't right - our licences do in fact grant permission to use software, as well as to redistribute it. Doh. The point about how best to communicate whatever terms of use we seek to impose for using Ubuntu is still an interesting one, and I still think the MOTD is not the best place.

Re: Disclaimer

Matthew East — 2008-11-27T18:56:37

Hi Amanda, On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Amanda Brock canonical.com> wrote: Pleased to make your acquaintance - I'm also a lawyer in London although my involvement in Ubuntu is purely voluntary. I'm posting again on this subject because I'm genuinely interested in the way in which Ubuntu treats its legal relationships with users and distributors. I haven't researched it at all and am just posting my personal thoughts. In the jurisdiction where I work (England & Wales), warranties are only implied by statutes where there is a contract. I can't think of any way that a contract could form between a user on the one hand, and Ubuntu (which doesn't exist as a legal entity), Canonical or the Ubuntu Foundation on the other hand. This is because a user isn't giving any consideration in return for the product (because it is free). If that's right, then the exclusion of warranties is not genuinely necessary. Do you disagree with that analysis? I can't say of course whether other jurisdictions are similar or not, although Wikipedia seems to indicate that the US might be - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration_under_American_law I think there is a general misunderstanding about the nature of the legal relationships that Ubuntu's use entails. For example, on http://www.ubuntu.com/legal it states that the use of Ubuntu is governed by the licence agreements. That's not true either - those licences exist to facilitate *redistribution* of the software (as opposed to use), and to define the conditions for that. In the absence of those licences, the software would not be redistributable because copyright would apply in its full force. The main point here of course, which Dustin made already, is that even if the above is wrong, then the "MOTD" is a poor way of seeking to impose such an exclusion, because only a fraction of users see it (those running the desktop edition don't ever see it). If there is a genuine concern about trying to communicate legal issues (whether it is warranty or other exclusions, licences or anything else) to users, it needs to be done before they click the "download" button on the website and the "install" button after running the CD. Looking forward to your thoughts.

Disclaimer

Amanda Brock — 2008-11-27T15:55:06

Hi there Wording is there for legal purposes and should remain. Warranty refers to the applicable statutory warrantie etc s. Please do not remove. Kat Kinnie in marketing owns this and I have ccd her. With kind regards Amanda AmandaBrock Solicitor / General Counsel Canonical 27th Floor, Millbank Tower, 21-24 Millbank, London SW1P 4QP +44(0)2076302446 Ubuntu - Linux for human beings Fabian Rodriguez wrote:

Re: /etc/motd template

Fabian Rodriguez — 2008-11-27T13:49:06

Re: /etc/motd template

Matthew East — 2008-11-27T12:07:23

Hi, On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Dustin Kirkland ubuntu.com> wrote: I don't think the "no warranty" paragraph is either necessary or useful. In fact, it's always had a negative effect on me, especially the use of capital letters. As for the "free software" paragraph, It's quite nice to tell users that Ubuntu is free software, but we do that on our website already and in various other places. Those logging in to Ubuntu on the command line already know it. It's not really helpful to tell ordinary users who are just logging in what the distribution terms of the software are, because logging in has nothing to do with distributing the software.

Foundations Team Weekly Summary, 2008-11-26

Robbie Williamson — 2008-11-26T17:52:27

== Apologies == * EvanDandrea - vacation * LarsWirzenius - vacation * ScottJamesRemnant - vacation == Activity reports == === Colin Watson === * Jaunty Alpha 1: * Fixed some dmraid issues in hw-detect. Later, realised that the same bug affected four other installer components (base-installer, grub-installer, os-prober, and partman-base), and fixed them all. Filed dmraid #300825 about the general issue. * Tracked down and fixed udev #300426. * Basic smoke-testing and release. * ARM porting assistance: * No-change rebuilds: contact-lookup-applet, foomatic-filters * lynx-cur build-dependency adjustment so that it can build now that it needs to be in main. * Fixed misbuilt libtool on armel (noticed while investigating dictd build failure; filed as #299931). * Sent patch series to kernel-team< at > to add d-i modules for armel. * Some fiddling with the d-i build system, but it won't quite work yet. * Merges: * Finished debian-installer merge. * installation-guide, klibc, network-console, refit, openssh * Sponsorship: * Most of the core mono 2.0 stack. * lintian #292872 (not really sponsorship but it was on the list due to other bug tasks and this cleared it off). * Miscellaneous installer work: * Fixed oem-config build failure. * Tried to get the d-i GTK frontend working. Seems to be running into a bug in the GDK directfb backend that I haven't quite managed to fix yet. * Made console-setup default to not autodetecting the keyboard. * Investigated applying a "human" theme to cdebconf; tricky due to 16-colour VGA palette (hello, 1987). * Investigated choose-mirror #209691 (WPAD proxy autodetection). The DHCP option side of things is straightforward, but dealing with the returned file is a bit harder than I thought. * CD images: * Fixed cdimage lpia mirroring problem for Steve Kowalik. * Arranged to remove installer components from the CDs that are in both the cdrom and netboot initrds already. Saved several megabytes. * Minor script polishing for things that irritated me while publishing Jaunty Alpha 1. * UDS preparation: * Boot performance call with OEM Services. * Some analysis of historical bug-fixing performance. Call on the subject. * Server installer polish call. * Went through some of the old bugs assigned to me, including: * SRU write-up and upload for partman-base #149832. * Fixed grub-installer #10661. * Checked information provided on parted #229388; still need more information here. * Fixed console-common/kbd #18448. * Diagnosed tzsetup #140934 and reassigned to system-tools-backends. * Dealt with some bits of console-setup #94177, but more bits keep on popping up ... * 8.10 post-mortem. * Conversation with Celso on Soyuz #159585. * Fortnightly IS review call. === James Westby === * Distributed Development * Worked with IS to get the pieces in place so we can announce. Hoping to have the last bits done today. * Worked on documentation for the initial availability of branches. * Ubuntu * Lots of sponsoring. Again I won't itemise. * Fixed a bunch of build failures. A lot of the issues are related to libtool. * Started a discussion on how to do "developer news". === Luke Yelavich === * Accessibility * Updated more GNOME accessibility stack packages, libgail-gnome, gnome-speech. * Started preparing an SRU for gnome-orca 2.24.2. * Audio * With the help of the community, was able to track down, and sponsor an upload to fix a long standing bug where for some users, the system would appear to freeze for a variable amount of time when it came to saving alsa audio settings on shutdown or restart. * Other audio bug triaging. Sheesh we are receiving jaunty audio bugs already, and I'm not even running it on anything yet. * Merged pulseaudio again, to include some extra fixes and patches that debian has grabbed from Trunk. Fedora is also supposed to have some patches worth looking into, will look at grabbing them in the next week. * Proposed a spec for managing alsa modules outside the kernel. * Merged libcanberra, and set it to be built against pulseaudio in the process. * dmraid * Uploaded an update for dmraid to intrepid-proposed to fix the permissions for a script that gets run in the initramfs. Still need to verify it, and get a second verification. * Started digging into how dmraid can be made to report more information using exit codes, rather than having text that has to be grepped for all the time. * Misc * Some alpha 1 testing. * Registered attendance for UDS as well as marked areas of interest. === Matthias Klose === * armel bootstrap: * babysitting armel buildd; this should be finished now. the alternative would have been to give back all failed packages and waste a lot of build time. * armel specific fixes for OOo, and some other packages. * KDE is still problematic. * more syncs and merges * openjdk-6 updates * python3.0 updates and upstream fixes * weekend fun: fix hppa packages (rebuilds for uninstallable packages) === Michael Vogt === * compiz * debug compiz/expo plugin screensaver bypass (LP #247088) * report bypass problem upstream (both g-s-s and compiz) * add inhibit plugin as (possible) solution, not accepted upstream * fix bypass problem with expo patch from upstream (yeah) * uploaded for gutsy, hardy, intrepid (compiz-fusion-plugins-main) * fix/update/create matching bzr repos * translated package description * improve workflow for translated package description uploads further * add cmp-translations.py file that can compare two Translations-$lang files and give useful stats * add gen-sync.sh script that can generate "patch" files for the Translation files (useful for sharing our translations with debian) * apt * debugging with cprov on soyuz/apt-ftparchive issue * coded on apt-ftparchive pool expire tool (for cprov/soyuz) * merged apt from debian-sid and upload new version into jaunty * merged python-apt consolidation branch that moves code from gdebi/update-manager into python-apt (thanks glatzor) * Work on replay-attack-prevention code (debian #463030) by add "Valid-Until" header and "Acquire::Max-Default-Age::Label" options (in lp:~mvo/apt/prevent-replay-attacks) * update-manager * fix update-manager xorg.conf rewriting for multiseat setups * add update-manager modaliases check for fglrx in jaunty too (#284408) * fix ssh detection in update-manager (#301787) (now that sudo eats the environment) * misc * spec work * sponsoring/merges (kdelibs4, pylibenchant, pnm2ppa, libglade2, intltool, inkscape, apt) * new notification-daemon/libnotify * rename app-install-data-commercial -> app-install-data-partner * partner repository * work on app-install-data-partner with brian * UDS planning for future of partner (brian has interessting ideas, togehter with apturl) === Steve Langasek === * Packages * merges: liferea, boost, kipi-plugins * Sponsorship * liferea (bug #295490) * Misc * Lexington November Nexus * Monday archive duties

Re: pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy thinks libmilter-dev is avirtualpackage

Alban Deniz — 2008-11-26T01:31:36

Thanks, that solved the problem. Thanks again. Okay. I'll switch to that list, thanks. --Alban

Re: help: pythonpackage: gconf-schemas --unregister does not deleteeverything

Francesco Fumanti — 2008-11-24T18:02:12

Thanks for your reply. I checked again in ~/.gconf just and there is no onboard folder. Anyway, as far as I understand, there cannot be an onboard entry in ~/.gconf as the code does not use the keys yet. I have also opened a thread in the forum where you can have a look at my schemas file: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=984014 What is strange is that all keys are gone; I mean that all entries of the form /schemas/apps/onboard/keyname get removed from the gconf database; but /schemas/apps/onboard and /apps/onboard remain in the gconf database. Do I have to add the /schemas/apps/onboard entry to the onboard.schemas file? Is there a way to remove /schemas/apps/onboard and /apps/onboard by command line from the gconf database in order to clean it? I wonder why it does not remove everything!? Cheers Francesco

Re: /etc/motd template

Kees Cook — 2008-11-27T04:12:49

I'm thinking of people beyond the one who installed it. This is especially true for server installs where the users are not always the installers. That can be true, but is less common. We're talking about a default setting here, and by default, the system is Free enough, that I think it makes to leave it as a default statement in the motd. If admins don't like the motd, they should change it -- but as a default, I think we should leave the Free Software statement.

Re: /etc/motd template

Scott Ritchie — 2008-11-27T02:08:12

We can tell the user that at install time, no need to do that every login (or even on first login). More importantly, after installation, an Ubuntu system may NOT be entirely Free Software. Thanks, Scott Ritchie

Re: [ubuntu/jaunty] conntrack 1:0.9.7-1.1ubuntu1 (Accepted)

Colin Watson — 2008-11-25T02:08:08

Indeed. gnulib provides a full_write function that you can crib (in GPLv3-compatible code, or otherwise study and reimplement, I suppose) if you want to ensure that everything is written; or safe_write if you just want to retry on EINTR but don't mind if not everything gets written, which for example may be appropriate in code operating on non-blocking file descriptors.

Re: Developer News

Nicolas Deschildre — 2008-11-24T17:21:16

+1. I like to see the Fridge as a more formal and outsider-oriented source of news, as opposed to the Planet, where everything can be posted. Having a regular developer news summary there would be great. I'd also like to push things a little further : we have seen some teams lately (namely QA and server) using the Planet for team announcements (call for testing,...). Why not create teams subsections in the Fridge, where teams could post their announces? Announces would have a greater visibility there, and it would avoid teams to set up and maintain their own blogs. Cheers, Nicolas Deschildre

python3.0 upgrade issues

Kjell Braden — 2008-11-24T14:57:37

Re: pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy thinks libmilter-dev is avirtualpackage

Scott Kitterman — 2008-11-24T17:13:24

In Hardy, libmilter is in Universe, you probably don't have that enabled in your pbuilder. ... Just build-dep on libmilter-dev. It will depend on the correct version of libmilter. ... You want to make those alternative recommends. In Ubuntu Postfix is the preferred MTA, so I'd suggest: Recommends: postfix | sendmail .... http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu is generally a better list for packaging questions. You can subscribe to that list and your posts won't be moderated like they are on ubuntu-devel. Scott K

Re: FORTIFY build failures (was: Re: [ubuntu/jaunty] conntrack1:0.9.7-1.1ubuntu1 (Accepted))

Kees Cook — 2008-11-24T17:01:17

Okay, I've shoved my original triage list in here (and cleaned it up a little): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags#Triage