gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.project

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

JP Rosevear — 2008-12-01T18:08:12

What I'm saying is the a significant upstream contributor is really an openSUSE contributor no matter who they are, we need their code, so if someone like that applies (and does not really contribute to openSUSE directly in the above areas), I think they should still be considered for membership. Building a better upstream relationship is a good thing. -JP

Re: FOSDEM 2009: CFP & more information ...

Martin Lasarsch — 2008-12-01T15:03:48

Right, basicly it's a talk from a non employee. There are many interesting projects going on outside the company, i think these should be put a little bit more in the spotlight. For sure. If you are willing to help at the booth, want to make a presentation ... i will add this as a note, good point.

Re: FOSDEM 2009: CFP & more information ...

Vincent Untz — 2008-12-01T12:45:11

Le lundi 01 décembre 2008, à 13:16 +0100, Martin Lasarsch a écrit : Can you define what is a "community talk"? I'm a bit unsure what it means. [...] I guess it's also an awesome opportunity to meet a lot of openSUSE people, so being on a booth is generally a good experience :-) [...] What should be put in the "what" column? Thanks for working on the organization! I can't wait for FOSDEM :-) Vincent

FOSDEM 2009: CFP & more information ...

Martin Lasarsch — 2008-12-01T12:16:07

Hi internal suse list is on bcc:, reply to: is set to opensuse-project. Today i received the confirmation that openSUSE will have a devroom < at > FOSEM 2009! Yay! Because it's a little bit earlier next year (2008-02-07/08), we should start right now with the the planing. If you have no idea what FOSDEM is: http://www.fosdem.org/2009/ http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-marketing/2008-11/msg00025.html http://en.opensuse.org/FOSDEM2009 (previous years linked at the end) * CFP So lets start with the call for papers. We always have quite a big crowd of SUSE/Novell staff at FOSDEM, but we want more community talks. So if you have an idea for a presentation, please send it to the list. Yes, i said idea, not if you want to make it. If you want to make it: perfect. If not: we might find someone who can. In the end it's about interesting presentations the community want to hear. Please look at the old schedules to get an idea what happened the last years, or even watch the videos. The official deadline is not really announced (i just says 3 weeks before the event), but because i want to book the hotel this year (before 15.12) it would be appreciated that we do it a little bit faster this time. This is for SUSE/Novell staff only important, but it would be nice to have a full schedule quite early this time. * booth if you want, you can help us at the booth. So far we never had a problem doing that with SUSE/Novell staff, but it makes more fun with YOU! :-) If you have some fresh ideas how to improve the booth ... otherwise it will be again 2 laptops with big displays. * travel So far i made no decision which hotel we will use. For general travel information look at the official FOSDEM page. SUSE/Novell staff: talk with your manager if he will pay for the travel. Even if you don't plan to do a presentation for openSUSE, contact me for booking the hotel/flight. * wiki If you think you will participate at FOSDEM, enter your name at the wikipage if you want.

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Pascal Bleser — 2008-11-29T09:27:50

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote: What I meant is that it would be oriented towards hacking sessions, presentations and meetings for contributors (developers, packagers, translators, wiki editors, marketing, ...), stuff like that. As opposed to introductions to and showcasing of openSUSE (as it would be the case on "user conferences" where most visitors never heard of Linux and such). The idea is more of an "openSUSE FOSDEM" than an "openSUSE CeBIT". Or, at least, that was my understanding ;D OK :) cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser public.gmane.org> /\\ http://opensuse.org -- I took the green pill _\_v FOSDEM::7+8 Feb 2009, Brussels, http://fosdem.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJMQsVr3NMWliFcXcRAt1RAJ9T+6odPueIy1vucWHZLzcOv98GxACfUyhG oPI6DTOmEvm40IwcO9UOM4Q= =qo5Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier — 2008-11-29T00:10:29

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Pascal Bleser public.gmane.org> wrote: Well, I'd hesitate to say "mere users," -- using openSUSE is the first step on the path of contribution, right? :-) But, yes -- targeted at contributors in that the program is going to be for people who are contributing to openSUSE. Best, Zonker

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Pascal Bleser — 2008-11-28T23:45:35

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos Goncalves wrote: Yeah, I'd also think it should be about contributors in general, not limited to developers and packagers. I think "developers and packagers" actually means "contributors", as opposed to "mere users" ;) Michl, Zonker: could you please confirm or correct that ? :) cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser public.gmane.org> /\\ http://opensuse.org -- I took the green pill _\_v FOSDEM::7+8 Feb 2009, Brussels, http://fosdem.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJMIKfr3NMWliFcXcRAgQdAJ481c6mUkeFdz2+s/zLiQIWYuw94QCghnnl 290T5Sbl9Ro6p7xbItMP8yE= =NQ2/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Gerald Pfeifer — 2008-11-28T23:05:48

I feel this is extremely important a point: being a Novell employee should have absolutely no influence on being granted openSUSE membership as far as I can tell. Does anybody disagree?? Gerald

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Carlos Goncalves — 2008-11-28T16:22:27

If I am not mistaken, that would probably continue being a SUSE developers conference (SUSELabs) because there are not many community developers and packagers ("officially" so to speak). What about something more general to better cover other areas where community contributes actively? I'm thinking of something like Akademy and GUADEC.

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Pavol Rusnak — 2008-11-28T14:42:30

http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/${AUTHOR}/feed/

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Bryen — 2008-11-28T05:08:14

The question came up more for those of us who are new on the board and grasping an understanding of how membership applications were approved in the past. It was not a declaration of a hard and fast rule that applies to any Novell employee. What we were asking was whether or not a blanket rule should be applied where if you're a Novell employee, do you automatically get approval if you apply? Although we're still sifting through the backlog of applications, we have found that generally the Novell applicants have met the test for approval, as any other applicant. The requirements for anyone, Novell employee or not, is that there has to be some meaningful contribution to the project. Some examples include: - Filing bug reports - Participating on the mailing lists - Contributing to the wiki - Providing online support (e.g., IRC support channels) - Advocacy/evangelism/projects that promote the use of openSUSE - Coding/Packaging/etc. The above list of examples is definitely not exhaustive and we look at each applicant individually. (Hence why it takes so much time to process memberships.) We believe that providing such a litmus test adds real value to the prestige of becoming a member of the openSUSE Project. One applicant who was rejected by the last board came to me and asked what he needed to do to become approved in the future. I explained that he needed to provide real contribution to the project. His response was that he appreciated that and that when his application does get approved eventually, he'll have real honor for accomplishing this. We have no intention of setting the bar too high that it becomes extremely difficult to become a member. However, simply being a user, whether an employee of Novell or not, does not meet the litmus test.

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Stephan Binner — 2008-11-27T22:11:57

How shall this work? What do you think news offers that lizards doesn't? Bye, Steve

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Stephan Binner — 2008-11-27T21:55:04

Of course it does. Have a look at the site, look how Planet SUSE aggregates. Bye, Steve

Re: openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

JP Rosevear — 2008-11-27T19:41:05

To clarify - this means the current opinion is that upstream project developers who are only users of openSUSE wouldn't qualify? -JP

openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes, Nov19

Michael Loeffler — 2008-11-27T17:49:22

openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes Nov 19th, 8pm - 10:30pm CET Participants: Federico Mena Quintero (federico1) Hendrik Vogelsang (henne) Michael Löffler (michl) Bryen Yunashko (suseROCKs) Pascal Bleser (yaloki) Joe Brockmeier (zonker), for the 1 hour Advisory Board Zonker suggested to have an advisory board to enhance direct communication with sponsors. This board shouldn't be limited to sponsors ony but open to people having interest in openSUSE. This is kind of additional value for sponsor and was brought up by company which show interest to sponsor openSUSE. Discussion about pros and cons. Just for political reason, does it works, what is the benefit? Adds two-way for interaction and exchange for sponsors and people with a key role. It may add bureaucracy to the project also. At what cost does an advisory board comes? The existence of such a Board filled with nice names may add prestige, visibility and credibility to the project. openSUSE deserves some broader backing that we have today. Would this make a legal entity for openSUSE necessary? The board couldn't come to a clear yes or no. This need some more discussion and the role of an advisory needs to be described in detail. We agreed having the discussion on the board list till Friday and then move it to -project to get feedback. AI: michl to send sponsor agreement to the rest of Board members Member Approval 36 approved 14 rejected 14 need additional review to reach 3 times + or - suseRocks came up with the idea to send the reject one a friendly mail and offer kind of mentorship to show them how to become a future openSUSE member suseROCKS is willing to handle the reject mails, henne does the approval mails, we post for volunteers for a mentor program on -project Discussion of the hard ones: Does upstream contributino qualifies to become a member? For openSUSE related stuff like infrastructure (eg. OBS) yes, for software (KDE, Mono) no. But we shoudn't be "Heiliger als der Papst" (more catholic than the pope). All need to finish voting by Monday Nov 24 Action Items Membership scripting WIP by Henne, probably done by Friday this week AI: henne, post meeting logs to board wiki Thank you letter to the election committee AI: michl to write one personally to the members of the committee + public post + ping zonker on gifts Board Introductory letter AI: suseROCKs Board Blog We'd like to have our own blog. Lizards does not offer RSS feed tied to an author. Own board tag - but fear of abuse and press don't like it. We may need to set up our own wordpress on board.o.o - takes too long Why not using news.o.o? Using news.o.o found broad acceptance. We start using that an see if it works out. openSUSE conference Michl shared the information that zonker is planning an openSUSE conference in summer 2009 targeted to developers and packagers. SUSE has now for years an internal SUSELabs conference in the Czech Republic where around 100 developers gather to meet each other, exchange information, do some hacking and to have fun. The idea is to extent this event to the community. Probably it takes place in the Prague or Nuremberg area as we so make it easy for many SUSE developers to attend the conference which the conference will benefit from. Next meeting Dec 3, chaired by yaloki

openSUSE GNOME meeting (2008/11/20)

Rodrigo Moya — 2008-11-21T12:14:25

Contrib and G:C update • Judging from recent ML threads, there's increased interest on Contrib • Discussion about G:C drops/updates/moves in G:C on the opensuse-gnome ML: • packages obsoleted by ones in factory (banshee, f-spot, pidgin, python stuff, tomboy, tasque) • other obsoleted (gnome-vfs-obexftp) • If no more feedback by Monday, all this will be done Promotion of GNOME within openSUSE 11.1 • Addition of opensuse-specific developer info to GNOME wiki (http://live.gnome.org) Wiki work • Wiki mockup updated soon • Icons are going to be difficult to pull off (tango icons) • Meeting agendas will get more attention Dropping/adding packages • Postponing this to the beginning of 11.2, too late to remove from 11.1 1-click install for 2.24 • Still some build problems preventing ymp creation

Re: Projects

Susanne Oberhauser — 2008-11-20T11:13:27

yes. see, you understand what I want to say :) oh puleese, ankle comes close enough to angle doesn't it ;) ? I'd volunteer to start that effort, along the lines I've described iff I can anticipate interest and contribution for such writings. I love the technology we create and I think it will greatly benefit from a more structured description of whom we are doing this for, what we want to achieve for these users, how they interact using the build service and how specifically it's supposed to be used. S.

Re: Projects

Patrick Shanahan — 2008-11-19T02:22:05

* Susanne Oberhauser public.gmane.org> [11-18-08 12:40]: s/simi/semi :^) Ahhh, your spelling resembles mine :^) or you have another agenda Appears the need for another wiki page with a call for collaboration. There definitely needs to be an easy way to help channel work efforts away from duplications.

Re: Projects

Susanne Oberhauser — 2008-11-18T17:36:20

Maybe, yes. Maybe the obs could also support people in dropping old, outdated package versions. Hermes could even annoy maintainers about hosting an old package version. As it could annoy maintainers about new package versions that are available. Yet then you'd need a flag to tell 'Yes I know. This is the maintained version, that needs to be here, too, for compatibility.' And the obs could help users to find a 'good' package based on the ratings Marko is working on or based on actual test results of real users. Or both. Or all three of them. There is many solutions to this. And several ankles to it. So where's that place where we put this thinking down in a structured way that at the end gives us not just technology but a way to jointly provide prepackaged, tested open source software? On the distro of your choice? And as part of openSUSE proper? S.

Re: Projects

Patrick Shanahan — 2008-11-18T16:30:09

* Susanne Oberhauser public.gmane.org> [11-18-08 04:56]: Perhaps prior to an individual introducing a package, that package particulars should be broadcast to a wiki/database for simi-automagic comparison of those already in existance. Would possible provide information to preclude duplicated efforts. Just a thought.

Re: Projects

Susanne Oberhauser — 2008-11-18T09:52:46

Hi, Pascal Bleser public.gmane.org> writes: I agree with this. And I wonder how the build server is really meant to be used as a collaboration tool. I think having a clear common picture of that would give me a better understanding of what is really missing. I very much like a structured approach like this one: - Who (Personas) - needs what (Requirements) - and works like this (Usage Scenarios) - thus she needs this (Features) - this is how we can make the above work (Interaction Design) - and this is how it works behind the scenes (Architecture) We have started this whole thing from our rock solid gut feeling within SUSE, and we all had one or the other gut feeling on how this should work together. That's why we got so far with so little in writing :) Anyway I believe it's a good time to give our shared thinking a little form now. Here is a draft to make tangible what I mean: Personas: In a package lifecycle, there is many people invovled like Audrey Author, Peter Packager (or Pascal ;), Ted Tester, and last not least Ursula User. And as Packages come in packs (pun intended), which is products or add-ons, there also is Ingo Integration Manager, like Adrian for the obs or Andreas for Factory. Personas and their Requirements: These people all have different views and have different requirements on our build service: Audrey Author - creates this real cewl code - likes the idea to get her code to different distros magically - doesn't know and doesn't want to learn much about packaging - would create or update packages if that works 'magically' from some svn/git/cvs branch - knows her development environment (maybe shell, maybe eclipse, ...) - develops her code to some very specific snapshot of packages Peter Packager - *loves* packages - knows a little of everything - knows how to fit some arbitrary code into a distribution - is a command line wizzard - handles many packages - needs to be up-to-date about changes and status - lives in email and possibly irc - needs to cope with different base package versions on different distros - wants his check-ins to build 'soon', even at the cost of getting a rebuild later, so builds don't starve Ted Tester - is no coder - knows some applications - will run and use them - would like a clear process: package is there for testing -> I have tested it ok - needs guidance on how to submit bug reports Ursula User - wants well integrated, tested and relatively current packages - wants to find them easily - wants dist upgrades to work smoothly with third party packages - wants an easy mechanism to report bugs - wants updates to be presented automatically Ingo Integration Manager - needs to know the overall status and progres of his project - needs to reach out to "where the flow doesn't flow" - needs to control how active his project is, to create stable snapshots - needs to collect several tests into one, synchronous release Usage Scenarios this describes step by step how people interact in specific situations, focussing on the process and the kind of information, * initial package * patch update * major update * base package update which creates failure * release cycle management (a1, a2, b1..b6, rc1..gm) e.g. patch update: - check out local working copy (osc co) - use quilt to create source tree - modify to heart's content with quilt, doing rebuilds - if local build and test is ok: check in to test - test - if ok: prepare for release - release if the package is maintained in the upstream repo: - similar, using the distribute script to abstract away 'osc' e.g. release cycle management - ... Features e.g. patch update: - simple workflow in obs: check-in for build -> test repo -> production repo - distribute script needs ... - quilt step by step guide for this use case Design: e.g. simple workflow in obs: Each project has three stages: development, integration and test, production the packages are built by Peter Packager into the development stage. when the build looks ok to Peter (per local tests or regression tests), Peter flags the package as ready for testing. Ted Tester then puls the package into the integration test area and tests the package from there, also in it's interaction with other packages. When the integration test is ok, then Ted flags the package as ready for release. when all apcages are flagged for release, Ingo Integration Manager will release this snapshot of packages to production. Architecture: ... =================================================================== I believe that the obs and it's documentation will really benefit from describing it like this and from expanding and growing this description for new feaures. It makes life simple: it allows Ingo Integration Manager of the obs to watch a new requirement or other changes to trickle through this model down into architecture and then implementation. And it will help any other participants in the obs to better find into it, understand how it's meant to be used and to enjoy it and improve it. ? S.