gmane.linux.gentoo.nfp

Re: Logo and Trademark Licensing

Rich Freeman — 2011-12-20T16:18:54

So, the current policy already states:
you clearly state that the content, project, site, product or any
other type of item with which the "g" logo or Gentoo artwork is
associated is not part of the Gentoo project and is not directed or
managed by Gentoo Foundation, Inc.

So, any non-official site using the logo would have to explicitly
state that they are non-official or they are in violation of
trademark.

The situation with Google+ was that initially there was a concern that
like domains you could only have one site with a given name, so there
was a mad rush to register Gentoo to ensure that somebody who cared
about the distro controlled it.  Then over the next day or so we
figured out which one was most popular and made that one the official
one.  The other pages should be gone now - if any still use the logo
point them out if they aren't in compliance with the logo rules and we
can work it out with them.

Clearly any future logo policy will need to continue to have a similar
statement in it.  Some distros go a step futher and require explicit
permission before allowing anybody to put their trademark in a domain.
 So, if you created "ubuntu-fans-of-the-uk.com" you'd need Canonical's
permission in advance, from their perspective (though fair use could
very well protect you).

Being that Gentoo is a community distro I think we're fine with the
current wording - use the logo to draw attention to Gentoo (if you're
non-commercial), but make it clear that you aren't speaking for Gentoo
when you do it.  If in doubt, ask for permission.

I think we could take the approach some distros have taken and give
examples of uses that are and are not acceptable to Gentoo.  The
wording would of course say that they are illustrative and not
exhaustive but it could reduce confusion.

Rich

Re: Logo and Trademark Licensing

Dale — 2011-12-20T05:59:15


I don't recall what list it was but I brought this up on one of them 
when Gentoo set up a profile on Google+ or whatever it is called.  There 
was 3 or 4 profiles that was using the Gentoo logo.  I'm still not sure 
which is the TRUE Gentoo profile.  While I think it being used is a good 
idea since Gentoo is open and all, it can also be a bad thing because it 
causes confusion.

My question is this, when someone does what I described above on a 
social site, how is Gentoo going to make sure people know which is the 
TRUE Gentoo profile/page and which is done by someone else just using 
Gentoo's logo?

Dale

:-)  :-)

Logo and Trademark Licensing

Matthew Summers — 2011-12-18T20:22:45

Hello,

Pursuant to the recent board meeting, I am writing to begin discussion
regarding the licensing of the Gentoo "g" logo and associated "GENTOO"
trademark for use by the community, for non-commercial and personal
purposes as well as discuss strategy in dealing with commercial of
both. This discussion will include use by derivative distributions
based in part on Gentoo as well as Gentoo itself.


At this time, the board is generally amenable to allowing free use by
the community for non-commercial, private, personal use while taking
due consideration on a case by case basis for any commercial use by
dealing directly with the potential licensee. This is in line with
current precedent in the free and open source community at large.

Further there needs to be some discussion as to how we can best
demarcate official Gentoo media and items where necessary to prevent
confusion and/or the unintentional conveyance of support.

Please let the board know your thoughts and ideas on these matters as
we seek to reach a decision soon.

Thank you and best regards,
Matthew

Re: 2011 NMPRC Filing

Dale — 2011-11-20T08:49:23


Ewwwww, it was HTML too.  lol

Someone subscribed to this mailing list and I assume it wasn't you.  So, 
since you are clueless about this list, here you go.  Send a blank email 
to this address:

gentoo-nfp+unsubscribe-cnFmAm88PdgLnqt3yJz4RQ< at >public.gmane.org

Send it from your account so that it knows what address to remove from the list.  When you send that, wait a couple minutes and check for new emails.  You will get a email that confirms you want to unsubscribe.  Just hit reply then send.  Don't change anything especially the subject line.  You should get a confirmation that you have been removed soon after that.

Please note.  You have to do it this way.  No one here can remove you from the list.  It's really easy to do.  Send a blank email to the address above, wait for the confirmation, then send it back confirming you want to be removed.  After that, you get the message you have been removed.  That's all.  No more messages.

Hope this helps.


Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: 2011 NMPRC Filing

sue oakley — 2011-11-20T08:36:50

Hi,
I have no idea what this is about.  This email address is under new ownership. Can you please remove me from your mailing lists?
Thank you

--- On Thu, 17/11/11, Matthew Summers <quantumsummers-aBrp7R+bbdUdnm+yROfE0A< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Matthew Summers <quantumsummers-aBrp7R+bbdUdnm+yROfE0A< at >public.gmane.org>
Subject: [gentoo-nfp] 2011 NMPRC Filing
To: "gentoo-nfp" <gentoo-nfp-cnFmAm88PdgLnqt3yJz4RQ< at >public.gmane.org>
Date: Thursday, 17 November, 2011, 22:39

Dearest Ladies and Gentlemen,

First, to preempt any personal health calamity, everything is in order
so no need for concern. I just want to update everyone on a specific
item detailed below.

Earlier today my fellow board member, Mr. Abbott, brought to my
attention the fact that the NMPRC page for us was showing us not in
good standing. I was taken aback as I had submitted our paperwork long
ago. Thus I called Wayne's office to find out what the hell happened.
Our document and payment were submitted on November 2nd by Wayne's
legal assistant, Heather. She has called the PRC who is researching
the matter currently. Heather stated that the PRC rep said they
thought our statement was still processing and expects a phone call to
confirm shortly. I also checked our banking account and the check I
wrote has not been cashed yet.

In summary, Heather stated that we are not to worry because our
materials and payment were submitted ahead of time. Its the NMPRC
system that is slow in processing. We should see the page updated
soon. I'll keep the board appraised of any information I receive in my
next conversation with Mr. Chew's office.

Many Thanks,
Matthew

2011 NMPRC Filing

Matthew Summers — 2011-11-17T22:39:46

Dearest Ladies and Gentlemen,

First, to preempt any personal health calamity, everything is in order
so no need for concern. I just want to update everyone on a specific
item detailed below.

Earlier today my fellow board member, Mr. Abbott, brought to my
attention the fact that the NMPRC page for us was showing us not in
good standing. I was taken aback as I had submitted our paperwork long
ago. Thus I called Wayne's office to find out what the hell happened.
Our document and payment were submitted on November 2nd by Wayne's
legal assistant, Heather. She has called the PRC who is researching
the matter currently. Heather stated that the PRC rep said they
thought our statement was still processing and expects a phone call to
confirm shortly. I also checked our banking account and the check I
wrote has not been cashed yet.

In summary, Heather stated that we are not to worry because our
materials and payment were submitted ahead of time. Its the NMPRC
system that is slow in processing. We should see the page updated
soon. I'll keep the board appraised of any information I receive in my
next conversation with Mr. Chew's office.

Many Thanks,
Matthew

Re: Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

Mike Frysinger — 2011-07-18T20:17:51

that isnt the only periodic entry for the foundation.  there's
paperwork filing, trustee meetings, etc...


i didnt mean to say that the calendar is be a full replacement.  just
that all date related entries should be listed in the calendar.  then
things like "i want an e-mail reminder" is now a trivial end user
issue and not something we need waste time on the infra side.
-mike

Re: Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

Rich Freeman — 2011-07-18T19:34:37

While clearly sticking an entry in the calendar 7 years hence saying
"renew trademark" is better than doing nothing, I'm not convinced that
is the best solution.

I see the calendar as being useful for reminders, but not a very good
checklist of things that need to happen.  Somebody might complete a
task and forget to put a new entry on the calendar (far easier to do
than deleting an entry from the tracking list).  Maybe somebody puts
an entry on the calendar, but not far enough in advance to take
action, or maybe ownership is unclear so nobody does anything until
the last minute.  And so on...

As I see it, this list would become the go-to place if somebody (a
trustee or interested volunteer) wanted to see when our last tax
filing was, etc.

The whole goal here is KISS - a list of things that need to happen and
when they happened last and need to happen next.  If all the future
dates are still in the future, then the foundation is essentially in
compliance, and if not it is not.

Rich

Re: Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

Mike Frysinger — 2011-07-18T18:31:02

you mean like the Gentoo calendar ?
-mike

Re: Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

Rich Freeman — 2011-07-18T01:19:07

Wonderful - you saved me 15 minutes of deciphering guidexml tables/etc!

Main change I'd make is not tracking start dates so much as last date
done.  I don't mind a link to a bug though to quickly locate the
in-progress item.  I see bugzilla as being a better tracker for stuff
that is in-progress, and this being more of a tool for knowing when to
kick off activity.

On the other hand, maybe an estimated effort/duration column might be
a useful thing, so that people know that if you haven't started doing
the tax forms the night before it is due is probably a bit late.

I have a working list I'll start adding to the template you've started.

Mike - regarding email reminders - certainly a useful thing.  Unless
somebody has a practical implementation suggestion I'd prefer to defer
that until we at least have the list up.

Rich

Re: Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

Mike Pagano — 2011-07-18T00:51:00

How about timely email reminders?
On Jul 17, 2011 8:06 PM, "David Abbott" <dabbott-aBrp7R+bbdUdnm+yROfE0A< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

David Abbott — 2011-07-17T23:44:47

Hi Rich,
I put together this page [0] to get started. I put it in the secretary
directory and we can link to it from the foundation home page. Its
just a simple table and once the category's are set up it is easy to
keep updated. We could create a google spreadsheet with the same
category's and once that is set up transfer it to the xml page. The
Activity and status entry is just an example. If you want to send me
the data to put into the form just let me know. I can remove the page
if it is not what is wanted.
All the best,
David
[0] http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/secretary/activity_tracker.xml

Foundation Periodic Activities Tracker

Rich Freeman — 2011-07-17T21:59:21

It has been fairly obvious that for a number of years one of the
biggest problem the Foundation struggles with is remembering to take
care of things that need to be taken care of on some kind of periodic
interval.  We forget to file and let our foundation become inactive.
We forget to renew trademarks until the last minute, and so on.

To help improve this I'm going to try to lead efforts to create a
simple and effective periodic activity tracking checklist.  The heart
of the checklist is just going to be a table of activities that need
to happen periodically.  Attributes I plan to track include:

Name of Activity
Who is responsible (by role) - nothing to stop people from teaming up,
but one role should be the lead for anything
Frequency of Activity (ie annually, quarterly, etc)
Whether activity is legally required (vs nice-to-have)
Last time activity was completed
Next time activity is due
Link to details page

Then for each activity we can have a details page (or anchors in a
single page) that goes into the gory details.  I'd expect this to
include:
Links to appropriate laws/etc.
Recommended process to follow.
Links to helpful tools/forms/etc.
Where to find the information necessary to complete the step.
Where we store the official copy of the resulting deliverable.
Where interested users can find the deliverable (perhaps redacted), if
applicable.  I'd encourage as much transparency as possible (many
eyeballs/etc).
Links to bugs tracking past/current activity completions.

I'd just put all of this stuff on the Gentoo website in GuideXML/etc.
That is, unless somebody is aware of a tool we could leverage which
would better accomplish this while keeping things simple and being
aligned with our values.

Feel free to chime in here with suggestions for design
improvements/etc, but my intent is to get started creating and not
wait until things are perfect.  Any system of organization is going to
be better than what we already have.  Once the structure is in place
anybody can feel free to suggest additions to the list, and this
should be pretty easy to distribute among volunteers (even those
without commit access if you can modify a template xml file and submit
a bug).

Rich

Foundation 2011 election - voting open until Friday 20110408 2359UTC (~84 hours left) - VOTE NOW

Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto — 2011-04-05T09:44:44

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi again.

On 15-03-2011 02:01, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:

This means there is now slightly over three and a half days left to vote
for this election.
At this point we received 61 votes from 229 eligible voters, meaning the
turnout is approximately 26.63%. As we've warned before, at the end of
this election the membership list of the Foundation will be reviewed and
all members that predate the 2009 election and didn't vote in that
election and this one, will have their membership cancelled.
So if you haven't cast your vote yet, please do so ASAP!


If you don't recall how to vote, here are the instructions:


For the election officials,

- -- 
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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(unknown)

evaw evaw — 2011-04-03T00:28:19

This what everybody should use
http://users5.nofeehost.com/nyzigid/lepyjufy.html


InRem embrance OfI... You rArmsWit hin Swear always that you'll be true.

Re: List of items to be addressed by audit

Dale — 2011-03-31T23:23:21


I'm not defending anybody but I'll say this.  When it comes to the IRS 
and the state government, they could care less about the bylaws or what 
the Gentoo people think or even intended.  They look at what is on 
paper, or what is not on paper, and the decision gets made as to who is 
right.  It generally leans toward the tax man too.  Gentoo doesn't get a 
vote on that either.

I see a lot of questions, a whole lot of finger pointing but I don't see 
where things are being done.  I realize that Gentoo is based on 
volunteers but if those volunteers are not doing what *must* get done, 
they need to be replaced.  Just like a developer that is slacking and 
not taking care of his packages, they should be retired.

As I see it, I have not seen enough information to show that Gentoo is 
doing what is required, especially on the federal side.  I have to 
mention the old saying, two things in life are certain, death and taxes. 
  Gentoo is messing with one and if it gets noticed, it may meet the 
other.  Gentoo appears to have gotten pretty close before.  Nothing 
learned if that is the case?  I'm not sure, just wondering.

Maybe what this thread needs as mentioned before is for the IRS and the 
state to step in and let us know whether Gentoo is doing its job or not. 
  Is that what is needed?  It only takes two phone calls to have that 
happen.  I wouldn't want to see that happen because I love Gentoo but I 
also love it enough that if it takes a tax man looking over the shoulder 
of the people responsible for this mess to get it done, then so be it. 
Someone needs to do just that to get this fixed sooner rather than later.

I have one question for the people in the know, past and current:  Would 
you want to see the tax man show up next week?  That would be a yes or 
no type question.  If you got your stuff in order, then the answer 
should be yes, we're fine if the tax man shows up.  If you don't have 
your stuff in order, then you shouldn't want to see the tax man and that 
would be a no.  That is one question I would like to see a answer too. 
Based on what I have read so far, I really suspect the answer to be no. 
  Then again, it may get quiet after this reply.  Sometimes silence 
speaks volumes just like finger pointing.

I been using Gentoo for many years, I would hate to see it gone just 
because someone, volunteer or not, wasn't doing their job.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: List of items to be addressed by audit

William L. Thomson Jr. — 2011-03-31T18:11:25

There is only one way to interpret a smiley.


If you want to take things on that front, challenge me to take action. I
can just as easily contact two legal bodies and leave it up to them.
Which is surely allot easier and faster, than wasting time on list.
Discussing business matters with people who have little understanding.

I am not trying to rally others to the cause within Gentoo. If others
are not concerned that between $20-$50k has gone missing, unaccounted
for. Much less that the trustees have left Gentoo in very bad legal
standings with the state and feds. Then that is there problem.

I guarantee the state and federal government will care less about
bylaws, elections, a 110 member consensus, and any of those things that
do not matter to them. Which by the way it would not take 110, just a
majority. Not to mention I am sure many will care if/when the state and
federal government do take action.

Please stop with all the back and forth, and do what is required by the
state and federal government. Much less whats responsible and prudent
when handling OTHER peoples money.

I cannot believe two posts now which should have at best maybe 1 reply
keeps turning into lengthy threads. Why there is so much effort to
defend inaction. Which there is no defense or justification that either
the state or federal government will accept.

Re: List of items to be addressed by audit

Roy Bamford — 2011-03-31T17:32:45

[snip]

[snip]
William, 

Having never met you nor spoken with you (verbally) I have no idea how 
to interpret your smilies properly. It is my duty as a trustee and 
officer to point out members rights.

Your "now what" is spelt out in the bylaws. To paraphrase what it says, 
now you get about 110 supporters to agree to take action without the 
trustees and possibly without a meeting.

Good luck.

Re: List of items to be addressed by audit

William L. Thomson Jr. — 2011-03-31T14:59:54

You can look in the archives to see who made every post on each section
of the bylaws.


I resigned right before there was a vote on the bylaws. There were no
changes between when I resigned and the vote.


The discussions are in the archives for anyone to re-read.


Again I know what I had written, and why. You can question that all you
like, but I was making lots of changes. Other trustees did participate,
but I was taking lead and made most efforts with regard to bylaws
authoring and review. Which is very clear in the archives of this
mailing list.


I am a foundation member, and I am contesting it. Not to mention former
trustee, who helped to author the current bylaws.


Do you recall how many there were when you ran the election back in
2008? There was maybe 2-3 active. Which I can only recall Grant Goodyear
and Chris Gianelloni. I have no idea where you are getting the 13 number
from in 2007. That simply is not accurate, do you have anything to
support that? When was the last election prior to 2008?


There was specific intention when the foundation was created when
setting the number of trustees. Which was not modified when the current
bylaws were drafted, nor approved by a vote.


The board had no choice, time for elections was past due. I also found
election officials, which I guess you forgot that aspect as well. Which
you should well know having been on of the officials. I was the one who
got you involved in that.

Subject: Election Officials Update 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_6226f44caa2fa8df19c187ad1f3d9057.xml

That was after you accepted a call for help on the matter
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_c69304fefc282286a8210bc7e7f92505.xml


I love how you forgot that I got you involved in that. I went around and
found election officials, as show in previous links. Which I had to
inquire if that was a conflict of interest later since I was running in
the election. Not sure if I still have that email.


Which should basically be the case now. Till the maximum number of
trustees is reached, there likely should be no elections. That would
have been true back in 2008. However it was best given the turmoil for
members to choose trustees via a vote. Rather than just accept any
volunteer for the role.


What have they done? Specifically? Is financial accounting not part of
the mission of the foundation? Do you accept the job they have done with
that? Having large sums of money unaccounted for, discrepancies in
accounting, and mandated filings not being done?

Really its enough patting on the back. They have not done anything
substantial, and that is a problem. I am not saying I dislike them or do
not appreciate any efforts. Just the necessary and mandated financial
matters have not been addressed. Which is half of the mission behind the
foundation, legal and financial.


What actions? Again they have neglected one of the most important
aspects of their duties and role. There is no getting around that, its
unacceptable. This is OTHER peoples money!


Its not an opinion, its fact. Things are not getting done, and you
cannot claim that to be my opinion. No evidence or anything has been
produced to show that they are doing their job. Even if they made
miracles happen on the legal side, the ball has been dropped on the
financial side.


Please provide a link to such a claim and accusation, which is factually
incorrect. You might be referring to this post, which very few commented
on.

Subject: What could the Gentoo Foundation do with money? 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_e3825ceed1a9eabb4d1438e919bdc63a.xml

I went out of my way to remove provisions in the bylaws that allowed
trustees to pay themselves. I did that as a trustee, when I could have
paid myself. I believe that was discussed internally amongst trustees. I
will provide some evidence, if I still have those emails.

Also many in the community are interested in having paid development or
things of that nature in Gentoo. Including members of the current board.
How that comes about is up to others.

To be 100% clear, at no time then or now was I personally ever seeking
to get paid. What is so wrong about trying to help others get paid for
their efforts? Is that not the idea behind GSoC? What is the difference
between using Google's money or the money donated to Gentoo? Not to
mention in this economy, I am sure no developer could use extra funds or
money from helping to further Gentoo.

Now if you understood what I was talking about then, and even now. Only
core positions would be paid. Things that are crucial to Gentoo, and top
level positions. The avg developer would not be paid. Please if your
going to comment on such things. Make sure you are fully aware of the
situation and intentions, and/or provide links or references to support
your statements.

Re: List of items to be addressed by audit

Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto — 2011-03-31T14:17:39


I've kept out of this thread up until now with the hopes it would die, but
that seems increasingly unlikely. Thus as a member of the foundation,
someone that was around back in 2008 and that did bother to follow the 
discussions back then and finally as one of the people that actually run 
the 2008 election, I have a few comments.


The bylaws approved in 2008 were subject to a public discussion in the 
mailing list. Even though I wasn't a trustee and don't have any "inside 
information" about the discussion within the team, I did talk about them 
with other trustees. Whether William "lead" that discussion within 
Trustees is something only the other members can answer, but even though 
he was very vocal in the public, we was not the only Trustee involved on 
the discussion and the approved bylaws are not what he initially pushed 
for. Some members of the community, me included, did participate in the 
discussion and expressed their views about the bylaws.
A "legal" system may take into account the "desire" or "purpose" of a 
legislator when a particular piece of legislation was approved, but first 
and foremost it tries to pursue the compliance with the approved text 
(written text). Furthermore, when taking into account the "desire" or 
"purpose" of the legislator, it will look at the global discussion and the 
several alternatives submitted for discussion, it won't rely simply in the 
will or word of one of the legislators.

So you may disagree with the interpretation of the bylaws of the current 
trustees, you may even argue that it goes against what you were trying to 
do, but that doesn't mean they've necessarily diverged from the global 
intent at the time the bylaws were approved. Nor does it mean you 
(individual, former trustee) have any special authority to "judge" the 
compliance.


(the following snippet was pulled out of order and after the above so I 
can address both at the same time)


About having 5 trustees, that's a number that members seem comfortable 
with and that no one up until now has contested (trustes and foundation 
members).
About having more, I still recall us having 13 members was seen on 2007 / 
2008 as one of the reasons things got where they did back then. So, even 
though having more members could, in theory, help, we should be careful to 
ensure that we don't get again to a point where no one knows what's going 
on or thinks another member is working on an issue, when no one is.

Back in 2007 / 2008 you did some noise that lead to increased attention to 
the Foundation and that lead the Board of Trustees to finally call for an 
election.
However, you had no role whatsoever in the running of the election[1] and 
in making sure members could vote[2], tallying the votes and publishing 
the results[3].

  [1] - 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_fbddc338d33694b427a238635a1a5f05.xml
  [2] - 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_e0e0007a051acd73f0f23d274902884d.xml
  [3] - 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_696ab04034ee9a9f0961a868d307a99d.xml

To clear any doubts that your comments about later elections may have 
cast, for those that didn't or don't follow the mailing lists, the reason 
we didn't have a "voting" for the 2010 election[4] was that the number of 
candidates was the same as the number of open seats[5].

  [4] - 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_d9d026baf9b5ef5f94deae70980a104c.xml
  [5] - 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev-announce/msg_dce1c5971c53b8935f781004cf1d9b0b.xml

I, as a foundation member, am very happy with the job done by the current 
trustees. I don't consider everything is perfect, but by paying attention 
to the meetings logs and seeing trustees actions, I'm convinced they are 
very much concerned and dedicated to their roles. Could things be better? 
Sure, but such is life, even more on a volunteer organization.


As a subscriber to this ml I have no doubt about your opinion on the 
current state of affairs or the current trustees. Any doubt was cleared 
many emails ago.


You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make it the truth.


From this whole thread, I also have no doubt about how great you are and 
how everyone else "sucks".


Curiously, you were the one trying to promote a change in the bylaws so 
that the Foundation could pay to developers. It took much resistance from 
the rest of the community for you to drop that idea.


---
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng

Re: List of items to be addressed by audit

William L. Thomson Jr. — 2011-03-31T12:33:47

Again having been an author of the bylaws, clearly I did not go far
enough to clarify such, as previously stated.


Not every position requires a volunteer. Should we expect a CPA to work
for free? Clearly if volunteers cannot get necessary, and mandated
things done in a reasonable amount of time. Its time for a new approach.


Might want to re-read. There were comments saying the financial
paperwork had been filed and things were in order. Money recovered from
old bank account etc. Then it turns out there will be an audit. You
don't audit things that are in order as previously stated.

Then the issue on waiting for a treasurer to conduct the audit. When a
trustee had already assumed that role, or at least claimed such prior to
other comments.


Again I did not go far enough when helping to author the current bylaws.
I had specific intention which people are discarding, and interpreting
in ways other than I had intended. I hope that makes more sense now.



Yes, and there was not elections for a few years prior to 2008. Till I
greased the wheels and got them spinning. Not that I am anything special
or wonderful, just saw nothing happening, so made something happen good
or bad :)


The amount of trustees can fluctuate, nothing wrong with that. It does
not have to be a fixed number, or the same year after year.


I am not sure there is much difference to straight up volunteering and
being elected. In all honesty most people care little about the
foundation. I really doubt they spend much time thinking about the roles
people will play as trustees and elect them based on such.


That alone could be a problem. There could be experienced senior people
in Gentoo who are just quite doing their work. They would have a hard
time being elected, not being well known. After all elections are more
about popularity than qualifications ;)



FYI I was bugged to death, thus I resigned and stepped down. Not to
mention I realized problems back in 2008 with the treasurer. I could not
get others to realize such, thus my efforts were futile at the time.
Thus I am not surprised in the least regarding the present state of
things :)


Again I never had any intention of starting a lengthy thread. I really
just wanted one reply to my first post and thats it.


Then that stuff should be removed and not require the bylaws to be
updated to reflect the current state of things. Problem solved :)


That is not true. There are quite many situations where volunteers are
requested and directed to perform certain tasks. If that was not the
case there would be chaos, and/or things won't get done. Even when you
volunteer, you don't just get to do what ever you want. I can think of a
considerable number of volunteer positions, where you have roles and
duties.

Food kitchens, clergy at church (alter people, not ministers, etc), Red
Cross volunteers, big brother/sister, etc.


I agree, and I don't see the current state of things to be
inspirational. I had no involvement in there not being elections in
2010, or when ever. Clearly the foundation loses steam on a recurring
basis :)


I agree, but given there has been a active board since 2008. I am a
little surprised and did have higher expectations.


Well the bylaws state officer duties quite well. But does seem things
need to be spelled out more ;)


It can't hurt, and really most anything else in Gentoo is documented as
such, recruiting procedures for recruiters, etc.


Correct if we bring it to their attention and its being actively worked
on an acknowledging present lack of compliance. They tend to be much
more forgiving. When they come to you, its bad :)


Well more like years, but I am giving them time now that some noise has
been made. Few sparks and a match or two toss into the kindling :)


Same here and I some what regret it, but I also regret being silent and
going away for years. Since that did not make things better.


FYI I did mention this stuff in polite and gentle ways. With inquiries
and such. But even on this thread, things are not really being taken
seriously, or understanding the importance and gravity of the situation,
potential impact, etc.


Not true, we were getting allot done in the first half of 2008, which I
was in part helping to drive. In fact quite possibly did more then than
has happened since, and/or prior to then. Just takes someone who wants
to see things get done ASAP and puts their time where their mouth is,
just as I did before :)


I was working to fix these problems long ago. I am not simply stating
things from someone who is just seeking to point out problems. Now at
this time I am not sure I would ever want to get involved or do the work
again. For a variety of reasons.


FYI I removed provisions in the bylaws that allowed trustees to pay
themselves :)


Not really, its risking losing its charter again and this time for worse
reasons. I would not be making the noise that I am if things were
otherwise. Keep in mind I was also a driving force in getting the
foundation reinstated. I have a keen awareness of such things :)