gmane.emacs.nxml.general

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Tom Emerson — 2012-12-21T03:52:19

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier< at >iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
[...]

The changes I made for Emacs 23/24 are trivial. We would need to get
the original author, David Rosenborg, to do the copyright assignment,
and as I mentioned earlier in the thread he hasn't responded to my
inquiries. So until that time (I'll send another after the new year to
allow for him being on holiday) there is nothing to be done.

    -tree

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Tom Emerson — 2012-12-20T21:43:31

On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier< at >iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

It is already in MELPA, FWIW. I presume that if it moves to GNU ELPA
it should be removed from the alternate archive.

Since I haven't heard anything from the original author (given the
nearness of Christmas he may be on holiday and not checking mail), and
it is under his company's copyright, I'm not sure I can submit the
appropriate paperwork.

    -tree

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Oleksandr Gavenko — 2012-12-20T19:16:54

For reference on original discussion refer to:

  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/emacs-nxml-mode/message/2136
  https://github.com/TreeRex/rnc-mode
  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RELAX_NG

On 2012-12-20, James Clark wrote:


How about submitting sources to

  http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/elpa/

In this case package become available in

  http://elpa.gnu.org/

Or ever to Emacs distro?

Why this to do? Because of nxml-mode it is important for Emacs to have
rnc-mode. Personally I write some own .rnc files and read a lot of SVG/XHTML
etc .rnc files in Emacs.

Also this is very stable package (as remarked in original discussion) so
additional maintenance is not required and this is big argument for inclusion
to Emacs or GNU elpa.

And I don't know how long Tom will be interested in maintaining rnc-mode. With
Emacs developers community this mode will be more living then with single
maintainer... Any further maintenance can be done with bug submission for
anyone.

That my suggestion. And I know that pushing mode to Emacs is hard work.
It may require David Rosenborg permission or something similar...

I use original rnc-mode.el (from home page) without modifications in Emacs
23/24 for long time (but use only basic features - indentation and
highlighting)... It have such header:

  ;;   A major mode for editing RELAX NG Compact syntax.
  ;;   Version: 1.0b3
  ;;   Date: 2002-12-05

  ;;   Copyright (c) 2002, Pantor Engineering AB
  ;;   All rights reserved.

So I surprised that it didn't work for Tom.

I checkout Tom's git sources and found only 2 difference in:

  (defun rnc-make-regexp-choice (operands)

and

  (defun rnc-electric-brace (arg)

which use non-existing functions in Emacs 23/24.

So seems that I have in some way broken code highlighting. And I avoid to use
'electric' features in all modes...

But my Emacs don't produce errors in *Message* buffer for my use cases.

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

James Clark — 2012-12-20T01:04:54

Thanks for taking this on.

I suggest you send a bug report to the FSF list suggesting that they patch
the manual to point to your github repository.

James

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Tom Emerson <tremerson< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Tom Emerson — 2012-12-19T14:58:42


Yes, but as of yet I have not received a response.

    -tree

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

James Clark — 2012-12-19T02:13:06

Have you tried contacting the original author?  It was David Rosenborg, who
is still listed at:

http://www.pantor.com/s/contact.html

James

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Tom Emerson <tremerson< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Oleksandr Gavenko — 2012-12-18T19:25:02


Please submit same message to

  gnu-emacs-source< at >gnu.org
                Emacs source code posts only.
  http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-emacs-sources
                Emacs source code posts only.
  http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.sources
                Gmane gateway for gnu-emacs-source.

And provide link in

  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RELAX_NG

or similar page...

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Eric Prud'hommeaux — 2012-12-18T19:00:45

* Tom Emerson <tremerson< at >gmail.com> [2012-12-18 12:45-0500]

I heard from some zealots that HTML5 documents like
  http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html
should be editable in emacs. The schema change (e.g. <section/> tags)
is pretty easy to handle, but I've no idea if nxml-mode could
conceivably handle the non-XML-ness of HTML5, e.g.
[[
<pre class="example">
  <script type="text/turtle">
< at >prefix : <http://example.org/elements> .
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium>
    :atomicNumber 2 ;               # xsd:integer
    :atomicMass 4.002602 ;          # xsd:decimal
    :specificGravity 1.663E-4 .     # xsd:double
  </script>
</pre>
]]

Does it make sense that there could be a feature to change the
escaping rules inside <script/> elements? (If anyone's dying to know
how to embed a script in a script, I'll find out.)

Anyways I'll raise an issue if a brief conversation here gives me
confidence that it's not an insane feature request.

I also noticed a while ago that someone asked about an auto-fill where
once you create an element, nxml prompts you for the embedded required
attributes and subelements (a feature which I miss from xml-mode).
Would the poster of that email like to file it as a feature req?

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Tom Emerson — 2012-12-18T17:58:16


I wasn't implying that change is necessary for change's sake. However,
rnc-mode does not work on Emacs 23 and later without modification. That's
the reason I made the minor changes I did.




The link at the relaxng.org site goes to
http://www.pantor.com/download.htmlwhich no longer exists. As far as I
could tell, the only other way to get
rnc-mode was through your Linux distribution's package system, and at least
two have open bugs about the Emacs 23 problem.

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/nxml-mode/Introduction.html

I suppose you could read that page to imply that they want to take over
rnc-mode, but that isn't explicitly stated. And if they do, that's fine. My
hope is that the updated mode would be useful to someone.

    -tree

Re: rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Dave Pawson — 2012-12-18T17:51:42

Likely because no bugs have been reported.

 and

Canonical? In what sense?

http://relaxng.org/#editors does link to it, not sure why though.

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/nxml-mode/Introduction.html
 seems to want to take over.


DaveP

rnc-mode updated for GNU Emacs 23+

Tom Emerson — 2012-12-18T17:45:11

Greetings,

I noticed that rnc-mode has not been updated for quite some time, and
that the canonical download link at Pantor stopped working.

I created a repo on github for rnc-mode, and fixed it to work with GNU
Emacs 23 and 24. You can clone from here:

https://github.com/TreeRex/rnc-mode

I will be creating a Marmalade (or MELPA, I haven't decided yet)
package for it in the next day or so, which will make it easier for
people to install.

If you have features/bugs that you'd like addressed, feel free to
submit an issue on GitHub.

Share and enjoy,

    -tree

Re: Re: Specifying outlining scheme

Peter Flynn — 2012-10-14T13:03:45

Yes, but I suspect (as you mention later) that most people tend to work
with the same schema most of the time. I have no data on this, and I'm
not aware that anyone has ever collected it.


This question has come up again and again in various forms over the
years, right back to the early SGML conferences, and I am discussing it
at length in my current research [1]. As far as I am aware, no-one has
ever come up with a set of semantics or heuristics that will take a
schema and identify "a section element" or "a list element" in a
generalised and extensible manner. There have been many editors that can
be configured (usually externally, by the user or by the person who
administers the software and the documentation management) so that they
"do the right thing" for the schema or schemas in most common use in an
organisation.

Indeed the Arbortext Editor's Architect program (a DTD/Schema compiler)
asks you after compilation to give the names of the elements types which
hold certain classes of data (section titles, list containers, etc).
Author/Editor (and presumably its current descendants) could take a list
of element types (in an external file) with a line of text explanation
against each, and add this to the Insert Element popup or dropdown so
the user could see what was what.

But an extensible and generic mechanism would require and agreed
(international) ontology for the types of information that needed
binding to concrete element types for each schema. While this is
probably not difficult for the most commonly-used couple of dozen types
of information (headings, paragraphs, lists, captions, etc),the stuff
people want to encode is very extensive, and I suspect that it would
take more time than anyone has available to make it comprehensive. That
shouldn't stop someone trying it for commonly-used types of information,
but they would then need to persuade the editor authors to make used of
this in an extensible manner in their products.

Doing it for Emacs would be a great start, whether it's in nxml, sgml,
xml, html, or any other mode. The principal benefit would be that menus
could then provide actions "New Section", "New List", "New Chapter", etc
(another user requirement identified in my research), and the identity
mechanism would then "know" what element type was required. I'm sure
that Balisage would be an excellent place to announce or discuss the
work :-)  Maybe someone has already done this and I've missed it, in
which case I would love to see it.

On 14/10/12 07:56, Dave Pawson wrote:

What I have identified is requirements for non-markup-expert end-users:
people who need to create structured documents but who have no interest
in pointy brackets or backslashes and curly braces. I think most people
on this list would classify as markup experts, or at least seasoned
users, who either have no need for this refinement, or are happy enough
with the existing facilities.

Personally, I'm happy with C-x C-e in xml-mode (from psgml) because I
know the DTDs/Schemas I work with, and I prefer working with the markup
visible, and in any case I have bound my most commonly-used key combos
to F-keys. But there is a very large contingent of people in the
non-expert population who want no visible markup *ever*, but still want
the editing software to create a valid instance.

///Peter

Re: Re: Specifying outlining scheme

Dave Pawson — 2012-10-14T06:56:39

I apologise if I misinterpreted the question. I can now state that I
really don't understand it.
fyi. Having used nxml-mode since it was released (by James Clark, not
emacsen) I have never had to use nxml-section-element-name-regexp
so I can't see what the problem was. I assumed (wrongly it seems) that
you wanted to associate another schema with some subset of
the document that was not a valid start point for the schema in use.




I do work in docbook, but also about a dozen others, some my own...
how does this affect your question?




Clearly not. I use elisp a little, but not enough to rise to JC level of code.

regards

Re: completion in nxml

RonB — 2012-10-13T21:51:31

It was rather in the nature of a technical question,
but since no one objected I'll assume that was, in fact,
a reasonable function and scope at which to do the
overriding without causing any problems for other packages
or situations.




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Re: Specifying outlining scheme

RonB — 2012-10-13T21:48:26

How terrifically unclear I must have been for you to imagine that "read the documentation" could be a helpful response! :-) Let me try to do a better job than my initial poor attempt:

Manually changing "nxml-section-element-name-regexp" every time I open a new XML file that has a different associated schema (to be excruciatingly explicit: I've read the documentation, schemas are being loaded just fine, and are beside the point of the question) is an error-prone waste of my time. My question was whether there's some trick to avoiding this that I haven't grokked and, assuming not (given I've of course read the documentation and far too many web ramblings as well, along with goodly chunks of the code), whether anyone has a patch that would produce the fairly obvious solution of letting people store (what is, after all, meta-schema information that doesn't logically belong in an editor variable) this directive inside their .rnc schema file as an annotation?

Perhaps nxml-mode users are very homogenous and pretty much all work on just DocBook (the default regexp appears to be DocBook-centric) and so this just isn't an issue for most people, I dunno. Clearly, it's not a design anybody who works on a wide variety of schemas would find tolerable, unless there's a trick I've missed.

Barring any nice workaround laying about, I wonder if anyone on the list has enough experience with the code to give me a code review if I get ambitious enough to write my own patch?






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Re: completion in nxml

Jeff Rancier — 2012-10-13T17:35:39

Aye!
 
Jeffery B. Rancier 
Software Engineer
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeff-rancier/9/996/aa9


>

Re: Specifying outlining scheme

Dave Pawson — 2012-10-13T06:27:08


It's not a patch, its the normal way to use nxml-mode.
Read the documentation that comes with it?

http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/nxml-mode.html  Look for locating a schema
Then you need to read section 5.2.1 in the info file.
(C-h i nxml-mode)

HTH

Specifying outlining scheme

RonB — 2012-10-12T17:26:20

nxml outlining doesn't work for me, since I don't happen to use the schema that nxml-section-element-name-regexp assumes. I don't want to set that every time I edit a file using a different schema. How do people normally deal with that?

Since the price of admittance to using nxml on custom XML is creating a .rnc schema anyway, seems like that would be the natural place to store that information, e.g., as an annotation. Has anybody written such a patch?



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Re: completion in nxml

Dave Pawson — 2012-10-12T06:48:42


It's a personal choice, you choose the keys you want to customize?
There isn't a 'wrong' combination.

regards

completion in nxml

RonB — 2012-10-11T21:00:17

Newbie. Downloaded latest Gnu Emacs for Windows. Studying nxml. It appears that:

a) Lots of websites tell you that nxml-complete is bound to C-RET.
b) This is not true in GNU Emacs 24.2.1.
c) nxml-complete isn't bound to any key
d) C-RET isn't bound to any function
e) completion-at-point is bound to Alt-tab, inconvenient if not useless for Windows users.

After some poking around, I went with adding this line:

     (global-set-key [C-return] 'completion-at-point)

to my .emacs.d/init.el file. The question was, assuming I want completion bound to ctrl-return instead of Alt-Tab, was this a reasonable way to do it?





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Re: A better html mode?

Oleksandr Gavenko — 2012-10-09T12:24:55

Look like nice mode.

I recommend you to announce it at list especially designed for this purpose:

  gnu-emacs-sources< at >gnu.org
                or through Gname: gmane.emacs.sources
  https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-emacs-sources
                This list (which is connected to the gnu.emacs.sources
                newsgroup) is for posting your Lisp code for use with GNU
                Emacs.

I create appropriate page at:

  http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/WebMode

Fix it if I wrong...