gmane.culture.libraries.ngc4lib

Commercial Vendors and Open Source Software

David Dorman — 2008-09-06T20:17:09

Jesse, Please don't tar "commercial vendors" as being against open source: some of us develop, distribute and support open source software for libraries. And please don't perpetuate the myth that commercial support is not available for open source software. David David Dorman US Marketing Manager, Index Data 52 Whitman Ave. West Hartford, Connecticut 06107 dorman< at >indexdata.com 860-389-1568 or toll free 866-489-1568 fax: 860-561-5613 INDEX DATA Means Business for Open Source and Open Standards - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - www.indexdata.com

Re: NGC4LIB Digest - 22 Aug 2008 to 23 Aug 2008 (#2008-39)

Jesse Ephraim — 2008-09-06T19:48:32

... Complexity is a relative thing. From a programmatic standpoint, ILSes are not very complex - certainly nowhere near the level of most business systems and games. Some of them - Horizon, for example - would barely pass muster as shareware, at least from a reliability and design standpoint. I helped build much, much more complex business and entertainment applications during my decade as a professional programmer. Even at that, there is a lot of unnecessary complexity in many ILSes, often stemming from the use of archaic data handling methods and proprietary, closed systems. There are a lot of parts to ILSes, and it would take a little time to build a complete system from scratch, but they are ultimately just specialized forms of a certain type of common business software. Patrons are "customers," books and such are our "products," and circulation is just a type of "order fulfillment." Rules and exceptions that may apply to certain individuals, items, branches ("distribution centers"), records, etc., but that is also true of the systems used by warehouses and distribution centers. Amazon and LibraryThing are doing the innovation that libraries SHOULD have been doing a decade ago. They are leaving the library world in the dust. LibraryThing even markets their own technology to libraries, when ILS vendors - or libraries themselves - should have been developing the same types of software back in the 1990s. Good for them. Shame on us. As far as open source systems vs. commercial systems, the normal "survival of the fittest" rules don't really apply. Libraries often don't make the most logical, cost-effective technology choices, particularly when it comes to ILSes. Since libraries have allowed ILS vendors to slap huge price tags on their software - often with ridiculously high "maintenance fees" - they have dug themselves into a situation where dropping those systems becomes politically complex. It is hard to justify an ILS change to city councils, library boards, and school administrators when you have bought into a system that costs tens of thousands of dollars. Since most librarians are not very technically proficient, and most libraries (outside of some large public ones or university systems) don't have techs on staff, they often buy into systems without knowing how to realistically evaluate them. Many stay away from open source systems because they don't have anyone on staff who can install and maintain them, or they have some vague concept (often promoted by commercial vendors) of them being "unstable." Since hiring a devoted tech person with coding and other development skills is not possible for most small (and many mid-sized) libraries, we need to see library schools teaching those skills, or at least teaching students how to realistically evaluate ILS software. Jesse Ephraim Youth Services Librarian Southlake Public Library 1400 Main St., Ste. 130 Southlake, TX 76092 Email: jephraim< at >ci.southlake.tx.us Phone: (817) 748-8248 FAX: (817) 748-8250 www.southlakelibrary.org uncommonly friendly service

Job Posting: Web Services Librarian, East Carolina University

Gueguen, Gretchen — 2008-09-04T19:53:19

Apologies for cross-postings... J.Y. Joyner Library, Academic Library Services, East Carolina University seeks an enthusiastic, energetic and flexible colleague to lead the development and management of the Library's web presence. Responsibilities: Reporting to the Assistant Director for User Services, the Web Services Librarian will: * Provide vision and leadership in designing, developing and supporting the Library's virtual presence, including an increasing number of web-based services * Lead, supervise, and direct the Web Development Team * Collaborate effectively with librarians and staff to design and offer innovative digital library services to our community * Coordinate the creation of web resources through effective interface design, sound information architecture, usability and accessibility assessment techniques, and implementation of best practices and standards * Investigate, incorporate and deploy innovative technologies in library services such as wikis, podcasting, RSS feeds, social networking technologies and other Library 2.0 concepts Required Qualifications * ALA-accredited master's degree or international equivalent in library or information science * Strong leadership skills and ability to lead a web development team * Ability to provide leadership in designing, developing, and supporting the Library's virtual presence through use of best practices, standards, and emerging technologies * Understanding of user-centered design for the development of web technologies * Ability to employ effective web interface design, create sound information architecture, and perform usability and accessibility assessments Preferred Qualifications * Academic library experience * Academic background in computer science or related field * Familiarity with relevant standards and environments such as WAI, HTML, CSS, PHP, Coldfusion, Javascript, XML, XSLT, and SQL * Demonstrated skills in project management * Supervisory experience * Interest in scholarly communication trends Academic Library Services: Located in Greenville, North Carolina, ECU enrolls nearly 27,000 students. It is a constituent institution of the University of North Carolina and offers 106 bachelor's degree programs, 71 master's degree programs, 4 specialist degree programs, a first-professional degree in Medicine (MD) program and 16 doctoral programs in our professional colleges and schools. The campus is located approximately 80 miles east of Raleigh, and 80 miles west of the Atlantic Ocean. Additional information about ECU is available at http://www.ecu.edu. ECU is a leader in the state in distance learning initiatives and holds Doctoral/Research Universities status as defined by The Carnegie Foundation. Rank, Salary and Benefits: This is a twelve-month tenure track faculty position with a comprehensive fringe benefits package. Professional achievement, service, and research/creative activity are required for tenure and promotion. Rank and salary will be commensurate with candidate's experience and professional achievement (minimum salary of $45,000). For a complete job announcement and application visit http://www.ecu.edu/cs-lib/administration/facpos.cfm. All applicants must apply online through ECU's employment website at http://www.jobs.ecu.edu Gretchen Gueguen Digital Initiatives Librarian Joyner Library Digital Collections East Carolina University Greenville, NC 27858-4353 252.328.4978 252.328.2415 (fax)

Re: Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data

Ed Summers — 2008-09-04T19:24:14

Well it's in the rdf too. But I imagine you were an early adopter who pulled down the data soon after it went live? About a month after the initial release of lcsh.info I changed up the identifiers to be hash URIs, since it simplified the delivery application quite a bit. If you are curious I switched from 303 URIs forwarding to Different Documents [1] to a Hash URI pattern described in the 4th paragraph of 4.4 [2]. I don't think this change was profoundly important, but it'll definitely be interesting to see how the evolution of URI namespaces plays out in the linked-data world. //Ed [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/#r303uri [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/#choosing

Attempt to "explain" DCAM

Karen Coyle — 2008-09-04T17:49:06

I've had a lot of discussions with a lot of people about the Dublin Core Abstract Model. I've made a very limited attempt to give my own understanding of the DCAM (along with a rant about terminology): http://kcoyle.blogspot.com/2008/09/semantic-dementia.html I'd love to have a deep discussion about whether this model is useful for us or not, and if not, what it is we really need. Feel free to comment, here, there, or anywhere. kc

Re: Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data

Martin Malmsten — 2008-09-04T07:37:40

That's great! Well, as long as we keep putting more stuff up as Linked Data, I'm sure someone will write the "killer app". Ooops, unescaped quotes. Ooops again, the #concept was added to the HTML-page, not the RDF. Right. I have talked to the experts and they have authorized me to use skos:exactMatch. From what I understand this is almost always correct. /martin

Job Opening: Federated Search Developer at University of Michigan Library

Ken Varnum — 2008-09-03T20:11:14

The University of Michigan¹s Library Web Systems department has received funding for a one-year term position to build a new, improved, federated search tool for the University Library. Library Web Systems manages the U-M Library web site [ http://www.lib.umich.edu ], federated search [ http://searchtools.lib.umich.edu ], the library's social bookmarking tool [ http://www.lib.umich.edu/mtagger/ ], develops other innovative and experimental tools through MLibrary Labs [ http://www.lib.umich.edu/labs ], and is implementing Drupal as our content management system. The Federated Search Developer will create new tools to better match licensed databases with patron needs. The new system will lead our users to A) the right database [relevant to search query] at the B) right level [appropriate to the academic level of the specific question] of subject-specific resources and C) ask the database the right question [using vocabulary appropriate to the search target]. The successful candidate will demonstrate experience and expertise in working with systems and data integration in library databases. Applicants should show experience with PHP, Perl, MySQL, XML, and data interchange processes and formats. This is a one-year term, full-time (40-hour) position. The University offers a comprehensive benefits package, including 24 vacation days a year, health insurance, generous retirement contributions, and much more. Salary is dependent on education and previous relevant experience. Required Qualifications - BS (MS preferred) in computer science or equivalent experience. - 3-5 years programming experience in a library environment. - Experience with federated search, preferably using Ex Libris Metalib software. - Experience with systems and data integration, working with disparate and often poorly documented APIs. - Experience in server-side programming: - Perl, PHP, and MySQL. - Strong familiarity with Unix and command line tools. - Extensive knowledge of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. - Knowledge of current web design, usability, and accessibility standards. - Demonstrated ability to work comfortably and effectively as part of a distributed development/implementation team in a culturally diverse work environment. - Excellent interpersonal skills and the demonstrated ability to communicate effectively. Desired Qualifications - Familiarity with Ex Libris Aleph online catalog and Metalib federated search tool. To Apply Visit the University of Michigan's Careers at the U [ http://www.umich.edu/~jobs/ ] site and search for posting 24794. Please submit a cover letter and resume (as a single document). Review of applications will begin September 21, 2008. Questions? For questions about the job, please contact Ken Varnum, Web Systems Manager, at varnum< at >umich.edu.

REMINDER: Code4Lib Journal call for proposals, December issue, due 9/12

Emily Lynema — 2008-09-02T18:10:49

Just a reminder...proposals for the December 2008 issue of the Code4Lib Journal are due September 12, one week from this Friday. A first full draft of the article itself will not be due until October 17, so you still have some time to work. Consider yourself encouraged to submit a proposal! -emily lynema coordinating editor, issue 5 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Code4Lib Journal call for proposals, December issue Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:35:01 -0400 From: Emily Lynema ncsu.edu> To: Code for Libraries LISTSERV.ND.EDU> Call for Submissions: The Code4Lib Journal (C4LJ) exists to foster community and share information among those interested in the intersection of libraries, technology, and the future. The Code4Lib Journal is now accepting proposals for publication in its 5th issue. Don't miss out on this opportunity to share your ideas and experiences in an issue that marks the first full year of publication for this new journal. To be included in the 5th issue, scheduled for publication in December 2008, please submit articles, abstracts, or proposals to c4lj-articles< at >googlegroups.com by Friday, September 12, 2008. When submitting, please include the title or subject of the proposal in the subject line of the message. C4LJ encourages creativity and flexibility, and the editors welcome submissions across a broad variety of topics that support the mission of the journal. Possible topics include, but are not limited to: * Practical applications of library technology (both actual and hypothetical) * Technology projects (failed, successful, proposed, or in-progress), including how they were done and challenges faced * Case studies * Best practices * Reviews * Comparisons of third party software or libraries * Analyses of library metadata for use with technology * Project management and communication within the library environment * Assessment and user studies C4LJ strives to promote professional communication by minimizing the barriers to publication. While articles should be of a high quality, they need not follow any formal structure. Writers should aim for the middle ground between blog posts and articles in traditional refereed journals. Where appropriate, we encourage authors to submit code samples, algorithms, and pseudo-code. For more information, visit C4LJ's Article Guidelines or browse articles from the first 3 issues published on our website: http://journal.code4lib.org. The 4th issue will be available in September. Remember, for consideration for the 5th issue, please send proposals, abstracts, or draft articles to c4lj-articles< at >googlegroups.com no later than Friday, September 12, 2008. Send in a submission. Your peers would like to hear what you are doing. Code4Lib Journal Editorial Committee

LAC: A Core Partner of the Open Library Environment (OLE) Project

Dinberg Donna — 2008-09-02T11:10:10

** This message has been cross-posted to several lists ** Library and Archives Canada: A Core Partner of the Open Library Environment (OLE) Project Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is pleased to announce that it is participating in the Open Library Environment (OLE) Project joining other core partners, with Duke University as the project lead. With funding from the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, the OLE Project will develop a design document for a next-generation open-source library automation system that fits modern expectations for library workflows and is built on a modern service-oriented architecture. This library system will be able to meet the changing and complex needs of modern libraries and library users. The small group of core partners will be highly involved in all phases of the project, by participating in all the activities, by engaging other members of the library community in planning activities and by writing the final project design document. LACs contribution will be significant and inclusive, as our mandate is to facilitate in Canada co-operation among the communities involved in the acquisition, preservation and diffusion of knowledge. Furthermore, because LAC is a national archive as well as a national library, this will bring an added perspective to the project, and will provide another opportunity to find innovative solutions to how both library and archival collections are managed and made accessible. Currently, Library and Archives Canada is engaged in a multi-year project to evergreen and modernize its own legacy library systems and incorporate them with an OAIS-compliant infrastructure to ingest, store, manage, preserve and make accessible digital holdings. LAC is embracing service-oriented architecture and Web 2.0 features as a fundamental basis for its target application architecture. By reaching out to Canadian libraries and archives, LAC has the potential to contribute significantly to both the planning and build phases of an Open Library Management System, and to bring an additional expertise and insight to the project, says Ian E. Wilson, Librarian and Archivist of Canada. We are confident that our joint efforts will lead to important national and international innovations that better meet the needs of todays researchers and users. The OLE project is a collaborative, community-based venture and offers many opportunities for individuals and organizations to participate in the project. You are invited to visit the OLE website at http://oleproject.org or to contact Gillian Cantello at gillian.cantello< at >lac-bac.gc.ca for more information regarding LACs participation in the project. Ingrid Parent Assistant Deputy Minister Documentary Heritage Collection Library and Archives Canada Zahra Pourjafar-Ziaei Deputy Chief Technology Officer Information Technology Branch Library and Archives Canada

Re: Mapping records to classification data (was: Re: [NGC4LIB] Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data)

Oliver Flimm — 2008-09-02T06:41:16

Hi, On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 02:59:45PM +0200, Martin Malmsten wrote: hmm, almost everything. Except getting all titles in your local catalogue that correspond to a specific subject heading, when this subject heading doesn't get catalogued. Its all about enrichment of your local data with external metadata and thus in the end its all about metadata sharing. This - in my mind - essential part cannot be done with Linked Data - you have to use external metadata and find a source that provides it ;-) I don't think that it's possible to implement an efficient service that returns eg. all ISBN's for a given subject heading in LoC, so you can filter your local titles by them. It can be done easiest by providing the mapping I suggested, so you can download the flat file, enrich you local data with the additional subject headings and *then* use Linked Data. Regards, Oliver

Re: Mapping records to classification data (was: Re: [NGC4LIB] Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data)

Ed Summers — 2008-09-01T19:12:08

Yes, these are definitely interesting. At a meeting at Open Library earlier this year I listened in on a conversation between some folks including Karen Coyle and Rob Styles (Talis) about this subject. It definitely seems like there are lots of ways of doing the matching [1]. At the end of the day, after you've done the painful part of figuring out the linkages, you need a way of expressing them. URLs for the resources being described, linked together w/ owl:sameAs or what have you seems like a good, explicit way to start. And there's a growing community of people doing the same thing in other pockets of the web. [2] Sure, this is a service-oriented approach--personally I am more interested in resource-oriented approaches. It's early days still, but imagine if bibliographic resources were identified with URLs, and could be resolved, and human/machine readable representations be retrieved? This is basically the vision of linked-data. Apart from the lcsh.info experiment, the LCCN service [3] is a step in this direction. The simple thing that this service does, and which other next-generation catalogs are doing, is assigning clean, hopefully application independent URLs to their bibliographic resources. The only thing they have to do is respond meaningfully with machine readable data at those same URIs and we've got the beginnings of linked data. This is why I found Martin's experiment so interesting. I'm not, but LoC is a big place, so maybe? //Ed [1] http://www.kcoyle.net/temp/merge.html [2] http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData [3] http://lccn.loc.gov

LCSH database now links to lcsh.info

Bernhard Eversberg — 2008-08-27T14:47:01

Our LCSH database (6.5m records) http://www.biblio.tu-bs.de/db/lcsh/ now includes the complete file of 266.857 terms that was made available by the lcsh.info project. That means you find links from our database to the record in lcsh.info to view their innovative display. The notes contained in the lcsh.info records have been included too. LC classes are indexed as well and can be browsed, to find LCSH terms B.Eversberg

Re: Search/retrieve access is to library data what Gopher was to the web?

Bernhard Eversberg — 2008-08-26T13:07:17

Sounds good, but quite abstract. One would have to see a working model that would show a few useful characteristics for our kind of stuff, clearly displaying superiority over MARC/AACR technology. Mind that we don't have to confront readers with MARC, we can give them data in ReferenceManager format or the likes of that. No, but I'm wondering if with XML we'll not end up with even more riffraff than before, considering all those standards and tools that are needed in addition. That looks really good. But to put it to use, you have to master XSLT, and there it starts with the new riffraff... But nothing convinces better than success, so I'm waiting for something that works and works not just marginally better than what we have but can also replace it. If it takes XML and XSLT but proves easier to use than what we have, you win me over. All fine and well, but are they using XML? And what for? If not, might they be doing even better with it? B.Eversberg

Re: Mapping records to classification data (was: Re: [NGC4LIB] Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data)

Martin Malmsten — 2008-08-26T12:59:45

This is actually how it is done in LIBRIS. If you crawl the Swedish subject heading for "Mothers" you get both the link to http:// lcsh.info/... and links to bibliographic records using this subject heading. Same thing with authors, crawl August Strindberg (http://libris.kb.se/resource/bib/94541 ) and you will learn that he is the (dc:)subject of 1147 bibliographic resources, and (dc:)creator of 3025. ISBN:s are exposed as URIs like this one URN:ISBN:0575047623. Well, yes. But everything is already there in Linked Data. In my opinion VIAF (Virtual International Authority File) should ju be one big downloadable(!) file describing relation between authority resources. /martin

Mapping records to classification data (was: Re: [NGC4LIB] Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data)

Oliver Flimm — 2008-08-26T10:52:28

Hi, On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 04:32:23AM -0400, Ed Summers wrote: another step in linking library records would be to supply a mapping between individual records and the corresponding subject or classification scheme, e.g. with ISBN or something like Bibkey (http://www.gbv.de/wikis/cls/Bibliographic_Hash_Key). There are quite a lot of schemes out there and not every scheme is used in a particular library catalogue, e.g. we don't use LCSH. On the other hand offering a user to browse local records with one or more (external) schemes like LCSH would be desirable. One possible solution would be to implement corresponding WebServices that get a ISBN or Bibkey and then deliver the appropriate LCSH or any other kind of related meta data. In my opinion a much better solution would be to offer the mapping data as a feed of flat files like LibraryThing (http://www.librarything.com/feeds/), e.g. ... 123 aaa bbb 456 678 ea24ad ccc bbb 345.223.444 12.34 xyz yyy ... In this way only the relevant meta-data to link records is exposed and not the entire MAB/MARC/whatever record - in case that might be a problem. Then, with this data it would be possible to link indiviual records in your own catalogue as long as the amount of 'feed-data' is big enough and covers most of the local catalogue. Therefore this would be easiest when the data comes from huge union catalogues like LoC, LibraryThing or hbz, GBV, BVB etc in germany. Is LoC perhaps already thinking in this direction? We implemented this kind of browsing (called a classification browser) through external classification schemes in our collective catalogue of our university (KUG, http://kug.ub.uni-koeln.de/). All the institutes in their more than 130 separate catalogues don't use the classification scheme BK (=basic classification) in their records. Instead the BK-data is merged as 'virtual categories' in the record, so it can be used like any other browsable category in it. The BK-data is provided by the university's large Central Library and collected with several other enrichment data in a central enrichment database. Regards, Oliver

Re: Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data

Ed Summers — 2008-08-26T08:32:23

Sure, that makes sense. Roy Tennant over in irc://freenode.net/code4lib was (as usual) prodding me into to demonstrating something useful about linked-data, and I suggested perhaps I could write a simple crawler to walk your data set. He didn't seem to impressed but I continued anyway :-) 30 mins later I had a simplistic 42 line harvester [1]. I let it run over the weekend (waiting 3 seconds before requests) and it pulled back 919,190 triples :-) I'm not mentioning this here because it is some sort of technical feat--quite the opposite. The openness of the web, rdf's use of URIs, and your data service embracing web architecture made it possible. My suggestion to Roy was to imagine a world where library data sets were linked together, like what you are doing with linking your authority data with LCSH. A simple crawler could then walk out across the web, and build a union catalog views automatically using the collaborative links between systems. Perhaps this isn't the "killer app" but it feels like it's getting close. At any rate along the way I noticed a few 500s, which you might want to look into. I think they all stemmed from the same problem: http://libris.kb.se/data/bib/5631508 Also, when you link to lcsh.info remember it uses hash URIs to identify concepts, as you can see in this example: http://lcsh.info/sh85020816.rdf And finally when you are creating the links between your subject authority data and lcsh.info you may want to leverage the SKOS mapping properties [2] instead of using skos:related. That's all for now. I'm looking forward to hopefully meeting you at dc2008 in Berlin! //Ed [1] http://inkdroid.org/bzr/linked-data-crawler [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-reference/#L1309

Re: Search/retrieve access is to library data what Gopher was to the web?

Martin Malmsten — 2008-08-25T21:49:10

It does not have to be one big solution. Just because you have MARC in your catalogue does not mean that you have to inflict it on others. As long as you can express what you want within your domain and expose some of it outside it, that is probably good enough. Though there is a tendency in the library community to want to control how data and services are used. Perhaps it has to do with the idea that users need to *learn* how to use them. That idea has to go. Anyone attending IFLA 2006 in Seoul might remember the theme song performed at the opening[1]: "Who can lead the way to the light Guiding the world to a brighter day Who can show the way to our dreams Helping to explore the meaning of life You are a shining light, beaming brightly on our path [...]" Inflated self-image anyone? Perhaps we need to be "just" data providers for a while and not the ones who also control what services gets built. We do not need One Solution to Rule Them All, we need many solutions. And we need *open ended* solutions. So, how do we accomplish that? Linked Data. Let more people compete and build on each others solutions. /martin [1] http://www.lib.pu.edu.tw/~jiang/LAROC/200611/IFLA-WLIC.pdf

Re: Swedish union catalogue available as Linked Data

Martin Malmsten — 2008-08-25T20:30:12

Hi Ed, thanks! And thank you for publishing the LCSH as Linked Data! I think it will be much easier to convince (some) people that Linked Data is actually picking up steam now. I have loaded your dataset into the triple-store which makes matching our terms so much easier. Every Swedish subject heading should have a link to http://lcsh.info soon. I'll make an announcement on linking-open-data-list as well, but I want more links to external datasets before I do. Let's discuss it on this list for now at least. /Martin On 22 aug 2008, at 17.15, Ed Summers wrote:

Re: Search/retrieve access is to library data what Gopher was to the web?

Kyle Banerjee — 2008-08-25T18:57:03

Back then, most librarians weren't online yet. You should'a distributed the message by fax... ;) kyle

Re: Search/retrieve access is to library data what Gopher was to the web?

Alexander Johannesen — 2008-08-25T18:50:53

I'm glad of this development, albeit about 10 years later than the rest of the world. *giggle* I know I shouldn't giggle, though, but SemWeb and Topic Mappers and anyone who knows anything about digital identity control knows that global identificators are a must for a *first* step into the world of serious collaboration, and have said so far too often. I think the library world was for too long hanging on to the LC / OCLC record numbers, and the authority records (which really ticked me off as it led to the wrong focus alltogether). Yes, indeed. In fact, this is a golden opportunity for the (F)OSS movement to lead ahead and possibly save the day. (Evergreen, Koha, are you listening?!). OSS would have no trouble with integrating with already existing OSS SemWeb technologies, and I know Talis certainly work in this field a lot lately. The W3C push of SemWeb, flawed as I think it is in turns of their own agenda, is an excellent and open set of standards for doing these things. Certainly, and it makes us able to make smaller sets for people who will be flustered and scared senseless (I was going to use another word here, but I've been told that the gentle people on this list will ignore me completely if I use anything approved by Carlin [RIP], so I've toned it down for you ... :). The first time I looked at LCSH I was floored, just like the first, secod and third time I was wading through what was available for RDA. Needless to say, I was floored by the shere amount of knowledge and information one needed to have in order to make one single good MARC record. (And this - as opposed to the format itself - is why people hate MARC. hate the culture, folks, not the format) Hmm, I might have lost it there. When I go to the task-groups homepage (http://dublincore.org/dcmirdataskgroup/) there is very little information there which I'd considered easy to follow or use. I'll allow myself a little tangent here ; Anything which isn't simple, easily explainable and implemented in a few lines of hacker code will *not* save us from doom. This is not about the quality of the information, nor the meaning, or the abilities of the proposed solution. This is all about the fact that we're a large industry with so much diversity that needs to come together as one, so that anything more complicated than a few lines on the idea and how your lovable hacker can try it out (including links to software that they can try it out with) is going to fall into the "too hard" category and quickly forgotten. The reason isn't that there ain't smart people who's doing these things or will be using it (or try to), but because time is of the essence. We need to play with this stuff *now*; not soon, or nowish, but right *now*. Make a toolkit, lik to software, tell them how they can get this stuff up and running quickly. If you must, tell them about URIs as persistent identifiers and the single genius idea about using that instead of numbers as a means of being resolvable and ripe for further exploring. Use the web. If you must, explain the web and why it gives us the power to do these things. This is a bit hard to explain, and when I say "URIs as persistent identifiers" a lot of folks thinks they know what I'm talking about, thinking "hey, we're not stupid, we've been using URIs for a long time." Have you used them as *persistent* identifiers for things? One thing is to have a URI in an ILS as http://mylib.org/in/ils/page.cgi?pageid=348348&selection=23 with no guarantee that the vendor will keep those URIs forever. Another is to design a set of URIs (such as your repository have an URI for every "thing", which is fantastic!) as http://id.mylib.org/isbn/29384758695. Resolve it to get more info. Browse your resources as if it was the web itself (because, you know, it is :) Anyway, it's easy enough to explain the power of these URIs than coming up with prose about how great they are. Examples. Prototypes. And it needs to be easy, so what is more easy that clicking on a link in your browser? It needs to be that easy. Maybe a bit of embedded JavaScript. A touch of namespaces. A pinch of OSS on the side. And more examples with working code. Then you might have a chance. If it isn't that easy, if people need to think hard about this solution, they'll choose what someone else is doing instead. And that might be ... uh, turd. This is exactly what I was struggling with when I was working in the library world; the time was ripe, yet due to lack of funds, resources, passionate people, people who got it, or people who could bring it further, things dwindle off into the sphere of prototypes and legacy systems that will be replaced with something else in a couple of years. I think most normal librarians and catalogers wait for the vendors to create the tools, while the vendors are waiting for directions from the librarians, and the custom development we actually do is "in the meantime" stuff. We need to make the stuff you're doing into the prime thing we do. Why librarians aren't involving themselves more in the model discussions is a bit strange, given its metaphysical abstract fluffy nature, the perfect fit for any librarian, but maybe they've been so used to committees solving problems for them they can't spot the Wiki and the blogs in the corner. Dunno. But if you need help with anything, just holler. Saving the library world is my quest, even if I'm not in it at the moment. Alex

Re: Search/retrieve access is to library data what Gopher was to the web?

B.G. Sloan — 2008-08-25T18:39:12

Kyle Banerjee said: "The stuff that people need is everywhere, so it no longer makes sense to put an inventory control system designed for certain types of physical resources at the center of our universe." This summer marks the 16th(!) anniversary of my attempt to get people thinking about a "post-OPAC era". Maybe some day. :-) Here's an excerpt from my 6/23/92 posting to the PACS-L list, where I try to make the case that it doesn't make sense to have an information universe that revolves around the online public access catalog (OPAC): "The idea probably isn't original or novel, but it struck me that perhaps we might want to start thinking in terms of a post-OPAC age. Many people have commented on the paradigm shift that will be put in motion by expanded and enhanced access to electronic information resources. I'm not sure that we can fully make that shift if we continue to think (whether consciously or subconsciously) of an information universe that revolves around the OPAC...We all need to start thinking of OPACs as a PART of the solution, rather than as THE solution. More and more, information will be represented and presented in ways that were largely not considered when OPACs started to be developed. Does it really make sense to try to manage access to images, non-bibliographic data, etc., through the OPAC?" Bernie Sloan Sora Associates Bloomington, IN --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Kyle Banerjee GMAIL.COM> wrote: From: Kyle Banerjee GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: [NGC4LIB] Search/retrieve access is to library data what Gopher was to the web? To: NGC4LIB< at >LISTSERV.ND.EDU Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:22 PM The same could be said of many things such as the qwerty keyboard or English spelling rules for that matter. Once significant infrastructure is built around something, it's nontrivial to change things. For example, trains could carry much more freight if the rail gauge was wider -- there's no sane reason why we should use one that's largely based on the placement of wheels on horse drawn carriages. All we need to do is rip up the existing rails, rebuild bridges and throughways, and get new equipment... The question is not how old something is, but rather if it performs the function needed well enough. As an IT person, I presume you use vi, decades old UNIX utilities, and shell programming when appropriate? Many people claim these are also outmoded, though I have yet to meet someone who really understands these things that says so even if they also use the latest and greatest technologies. As others have mentioned, this predates the web. However, this would be much easier to change since z39.50 penetration has always been poor and it does not influence the internal workings of an ILS the way that MARC does. The are inventory control systems, but they are highly optimized for the workflows in libraries which are simple only if you've only been exposed to primitive environments. For, if you acquire serials from all over the world, how would you design a system that alerts staff when issues are expected and helps them claim them when they don't arrive when publication patterns are all over the place? After you send the issues to the shelf, eventually certain ones will get bound together so when one gets checked out, so do the others. Don't forget that all these things must be paid for out of a variety of different funds that get their money from different sources and that you'll be expected to produce reports on how much was spent in subject X as well as deliver various circulation reports. There are a number of specialized workflows in libraries. It's not rocket science, but there is a lot of detail and it's not something that you'd want to sit down and and just write down. Having said that, I think that our insistence as a profession on buying black boxes that claim to do it all is killing us right now. The stuff that people need is everywhere, so it no longer makes sense to put an inventory control system designed for certain types of physical resources at the center of our universe. This phenomenon is hardly unique to the library community. It is also common in other fields, including IT. We are definitely at a transitional point and it is clear that old formulas will not lead to success in the future. I couldn't think of a better time to be in the field. kyle