http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19844 When you have a project with an internet presence, and you don't have time to do a proper job, you put up a wiki and hack it into doing what you want. When you have a bunch of web developers, and your project is web development, and you need something done that's really not wiki-ish at all, you _do it right_. If Advent sucks (yes, organization could be better, and markdown has its pros, as well as its cons that you seem to be ignoring), then help improve it. Schlepping it onto the wiki has its own set of problems, and isn't in itself a _solution_ to anything. Andrew _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Andrew Rodland 2008-12-02T01:57:33 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19843 On 02/12/2008, at 12:22 PM, Dan Dascalescu wrote: Eventually everything gets linked to this page: http://dev.catalystframework.org/wiki/adventcalendararticles in the advent calendar template Other than that, patches welcome ;) _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Kieren Diment 2008-12-02T01:46:16 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19842 I'd like to suggest hosting the Advent Calendar articles on the Catalyst Wiki: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/adventcalendararticles Here are some arguments: 1. The presentation at http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2007 does not list the article titles. It only lists the numbers from 1 to 31 and finding an article later is a pain, as a blogger commented at http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/archives/2007/12/catalyst_advent.html Compare with the clear list at http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2007 2. Some Advent entries become obsolete and are highly unlikely to be edited. For example, entry 14 of 2005 is severely obsoleted and an inspection of the SVN repo shows that the most recent revisions to the 2005 and 2006 entries are 2 years old, and the 2007 entries are one year old. http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/browse/trunk/examples/CatalystAdvent/root/2005/ (for bonus points, try to figure out what "entry 14" is about... then hail SEO-friendly URLs) 3. POD is not really conducive for the kinds of articles in the calendar. See the source of the Catalyst survey - http://dev.catalystframework.org/svnweb/Catalyst/checkout/trunk/examples/CatalystAdvent/root/2008/1.pod. Kd apparently had to resort to pasting HTML from a Word/OO document. The Catalyst wiki uses Multimarkdown, which makes table creation much easier and is generally less of a pain than POD. 4. I proposed this on the channel and got the counter-arguments that SVN provides for peer review, and kd (manually) periodically makes the next entry availalbe. Well, MojoMojo provides for that too. Create/edit entries not to be released yet (e.g. http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/adventcalendararticles/2008/2008/03-sparklines_with_Chart_Clicker.edit), have the contributors edit, and link to them when they should be released. Finally, I found myself preferring the list of articles at http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/adventcalendararticles over the list of numbers at http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar/2007 every single time I tried to look for an article. HTH, Dan _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Dan Dascalescu 2008-12-02T01:22:48 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19841 And of course I forgot the URL: http://www.catalystframework.org/calendar On 02/12/2008, at 8:01 AM, Kieren Diment wrote: _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Kieren Diment 2008-12-01T21:38:25 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19840 Hi all, The 2008 Catalyst advent calendar has started. In general this year we will aim to have articles up by 12:00 UTC each day. If you want to contribute an article, contact me (kd) on irc or via email. Kieren _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Kieren Diment 2008-12-01T21:01:37 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19839 On 1 Dec 2008, at 09:05, Marcus Ramberg wrote: Yes. Or it will be once 0.12 is released. http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=41254 Cheers t0m _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Tomas Doran 2008-12-01T17:39:59 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19838 _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Eric Wright 2008-12-01T17:12:37 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19837 We just need to finish B::Perfect, then all our problems are solved. Software always will have glitches. Some people are tolerant, others are not. CPAN Testers is a great resource that helps identify potential problems, and some people are proactive about fixing them. I'm certainly not, though I should be. -J _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ J. Shirley 2008-12-01T16:22:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19836 * Jonathan Rockway <jon< at >jrock.us> [2008-12-01 01:15]: When I write software I generally hope others will find it useful. (Sometimes I write it purely for my own itches, but then it tends to be half-arsed in all sorts of ways because it doesn’t have to work for anything other than exactly the use cases I need it for.) How many kernel drivers did you debug today? * Marcus Ramberg <marcus< at >nordaaker.com> [2008-12-01 10:10]: It’s true. But the fact that the Mouse people had to fix this is an indication that a pretty high level of ongoing effort is necessary, which I see as a symptom of there being a fundamental problem. That doesn’t mean the alternative is better. I have no answers, unfortunately, only questions. Regards, Aristotle Pagaltzis 2008-12-01T16:01:38 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19835 My point with the "welcome" was that I view Catalyst as (somewhat) outside of that echo chamber. If ever so slightly. The projects that care about release engineering help get out of the echo chamber, and there needs to be more of them. The EPO helps this, IMO. Moose (and Mouse), Catalyst, DBIx::Class all are good examples of release practices, in my opinion. Certainly not flawless, but it's getting there. And not to dilute credit, like you said, Matt does a fantastic job and deserves most the credit in the Catalyst + DBIC realm. Regardless of his perception, he is likely one of the best new user advocates around. Welcome ot the circle-jerk chamber... -J _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ J. Shirley 2008-12-01T15:36:34 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19834 It's a menagerie of woe! Why not add some deps for Wombat and Echidna depending on Mammal::Oviparous too ;-) Regards, Peter http://perl.dragonstaff.co.uk _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ peter< at >dragonstaff.com 2008-12-01T10:05:28 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19833 _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Marcus Ramberg 2008-12-01T09:05:04 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19832 On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:10:22 -0600, Jonathan Rockway <jon< at >jrock.us> wrote: I am absolutely stunned by this inappropriate and arrogant answer! Did you smoke your last couple of lisp scripts, man? Perl's future depends on those "other people", but that's a truth a lot of people in the Perl community haven't realized yet... --Tobias _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Mailing lists 2008-12-01T09:01:54 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19831 [> * On Sun, Nov 30 2008, Toby Corkindale wrote: That is the worst ever response to a test failure... just terrible. This is a test failure at the core, because a version of a module down the chain wasn't tested. This is what CPAN Testers, in part, is designed to catch. Saying "they can't install a CPAN module" is an insult to the CPAN Testers effort and all the toolchain authors, too. There is a reason this stuff exists, it is so that CPAN modules are widely accessible. Welcome to the perl echo chamber... _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ J. Shirley 2008-12-01T02:36:44 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19830 Because not everyone is a contributor. In fact, *most* people are not contributors. Contributors come from being users first. If we lose the users, we will lose contributors in the long run, and Perl will disappear. I know :( But sysadmins seem to love the bloody thing, no matter how ancient and broken its so-called "stable" version is. It needs a tagline, like: "Debian - Stifling innovation since 1993" (Although really, they were quite innovative at first, so that's mean of me. I should point out that I understand that having a consistent, static base is very important to a lot of people.) Toby Toby Corkindale 2008-12-01T01:02:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19829 Why do you care about what other people do? If these people can't even install a CPAN module, it's unlikely that they were going to become active contributors. This says more about Debian than PAR. -- print just => another => perl => hacker => if $,=$" _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Jonathan Rockway 2008-12-01T00:10:22 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19828 It kind of is still our problem, since if one writes an application for Catalyst, one hopes that the intended users can easily install it.. which they can't on supposed "Stable" Linux installs, using Debian, RHEL, etc. If the automated install fails, people are likely to say "bah, this Perl thing sucks, let's go for that similar app written in PHP/Java/Ruby instead - at least it's simple to install!" PAR goes a little way to solving this, but then one needs to distribute multiple versions for all the platforms you support, and hope they have a decent PAR version too. (Again, Debian stable has issues.) Toby _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Toby Corkindale 2008-11-30T23:35:38 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19827 * Lars Balker Rasmussen <lars< at >balker.dk> [2008-11-28 10:20]: Yeah, that’s the least bad constellation. No, it still is a problem for Catalyst app users, because it still does add a point of potential installation failure. Of course the fact that this is caused by Data::Visitor rather than directly by Catalyst::Action::RenderView means there isn’t any easy answer. But it doesn’t change the conclusion that gluing together modules not designed with each other in mind has solid downsides for… parsimony in a general sense. Hrm. It bugs me that no good strategy for dealing with this is apparent. Regards, Aristotle Pagaltzis 2008-11-30T08:56:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19826 Hello All, A new version of the Catalyst Authentication plugin is winging it's way to CPAN (0.100091.) This update includes the excellent 'Catalyst::Authentication::Realm::Progressive' realm written by J. Shirley. The Progressive Realm allows you to, with a single call to $c- >authenticate(), make multiple authentication attempts one at a time, until one of them succeeds (or they all fail.) This allows you to check multiple authentication realms to attempt to authenticate a user. Some samples of how you might use this are: 1) Legacy authentication / migration to new system. If you can't merge the db's for whatever reason, you could try to authenticate against the new system, followed by the legacy system. 2) Temporary passwords - If you have a separate auth method for 'temporary' auth - forgot password - initial confirmation, etc, you can attempt to auth against the temporary password realm, then the main db. (or the other way around) 3) Auth against a local system, followed by a remote system if the user is not found. I'm sure you can come up with hundreds of other uses. Please thank J. Shirley for his excellent module. Jay _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Jason Kuri 2008-11-29T18:56:02 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19825 On 28 Nov 2008, at 01:31, Johan Lindström wrote: In this case (Action::RenderView), Mouse is used by Data::Visitor, which is used by RenderView just for trimming things out of the debug dump, so how fast it is or isn't really a concern, assuming that your application isn't an application to show how pretty Catalyst's debug dumps are, at least ;_) Cheers t0m _______________________________________________ List: Catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst< at >lists.scsys.co.uk/ Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/ Tomas Doran 2008-11-28T15:17:57 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general/19824 Yeah - but if we look at it formally: since there is no official definition - then we should treat it as standard Document/Literal. And, I can be completely mistaken here as I don't know the full semantics of WSDL, but I have the hypothesis that this is possible using the trick of treating the dispatching as an internal affair of the server (and remembering that you can always uncurry a curried function). In other words, we can pretend to have just one operation of type: ( InternalOperation, Parameters ) -> Output and treat the the dispatching to the InternalOperations as a part of the algorithm of this one official operation. But if we do that - then we cannot rely on anything outside of the Document/Literal specs (i.e. on the SOAPAction header). Yeah - I just hoped to first validate my understanding, before sending any patches. Zbigniew Lukasiak 2008-11-28T15:04:34 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.web.catalyst.general