gmane.comp.python.django.devel

Re: Redesign of djangoproject.com?

Jacob Kaplan-Moss — 2012-05-24T17:14:36

Hi folks --

Thanks so much to everyone who's participated in this thread; I feel
like there's a lot of useful discussion and brainstorming going on.

The DSF board met yesterday and discussed the effort -- we're
determined to get this done soon. Unfortunately, we ultimately think
that this collaborative effort isn't working: there's a lot of great
ideas, but some of the discussion is veering closer to "design by
committee", and nobody's really empowered to move things forward.

Ultimately and sadly, though, great design is at odds to a community
process: the only way we know to get something we *love* is to find
someone awesome and let them do their thing.

So here's the plan: in the next month we're do exactly that: find
someone awesome, and give them carte blance on the redesign. We'll of
course give feedback, and touch base with the community a few times,
but ultimately we're going to put this thing into one person's hands.

If you'd like to become the Benevolent Dictator For This Redesign,
then please send a proposal to <foundation-XIVKbkNeXEkj9eliCJ546QC/G2K4zDHf< at >public.gmane.org>. This
doesn't need to be formal; we just need to know two things:

1. Can you deliver? Convince us that you'll actually be able to get
this done: show us a track record of shipping, and explain why you'll
have time to work on this. We'd like to see this land before DjangoCon
US in September; can you hit that?

2. Are you awesome? Convince us that your design will rock. This can
come in the form of a mockup, or previous work, or whatever. Again we
don't need formal stuff here, and we certainly don't expect spec work.
We just want to make sure your aesthetic matches ours.

A few further notes:

* I want to stress the informality of this. We don't need or want a
full formal proposal like you would for a real client; we just want to
know that you're awesome and can deliver. If you can prove that to us
in a few words, do it!

* You don't have to do this all yourself; we have quite a few
volunteers. Importantly, we have *plenty* of people who can help on
the backend (natch), so really all we need is someone who's great at
the design side. How much of the actual coding you do is up to you. If
you've got weaknesses that's complete fine, just tell us what help you
need and we'll fill it in. You'll be in charge visually and
aesthetically, but we'll encourage you to delegate as much as you can.

* We don't currently have a budget assigned; we're thinking this'll be
volunteer work. However, the DSF *does* have some funds, and if money
makes the difference we'll spend it. So if you need money to make it
happen, tell us. We won't penalize you if you need to get paid (but at
the same time we hope you recognize we probably can't afford market
rates).

* The deadline is Sunday, June 17th, and we'll aim to make a decision that week.

Thanks everyone!

Jacob

PS: I'm deliberately burying this down in the thread instead of
posting this more publicly. I'd like to avoid this becoming a general
call; I'm more interested in reaching people who're *already* paying
attention to this effort. I'd appreciate it, then, if you'd keep this
call off Reddit, Hacker News, etc. However, if you know someone who
you think *should* be interested, please forward it onto them!

Re: Redesign of djangoproject.com?

Ashraful Sheikh — 2012-05-24T16:28:20

Here is an updated version of the design.

http://i.imgur.com/PKUHM.jpg

Let me know what you guys think. The icons and content are simply 
placeholders and can be changed later on. My experience is in web and UX 
design and am not a good illustrator or icon designer, so someone more 
experienced in those areas should ideally be creating the icons and the top 
illustration.

In the design, I still kept the primary call-to-action geared towards new 
users, because I feel that they would be the ones needing most guidance. 
People who are existing users or are experienced developers would be much 
more likely to be able to find what they are looking for by searching, 
going through the navigation or scrolling down the page, without needing a 
large button "above the fold".

Looking forward to more feedback regarding the design.

Thanks.

On Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:57:26 PM UTC+6, Andre Terra wrote:

Re: Redesign of djangoproject.com?

Andre Terra — 2012-05-24T13:57:26

Hi Ashraful,

First of all, thank you for contributing with your ideas for this project.
Your mockup is one of the most aesthetically pleasing so far IMHO but there
are some issues that need addressing before it could be replace the current
design.

Since the mockup to feedback ratio in this thread seems distant from 1 at
the moment, I wanted to contribute to the discussion, so please bear with
me.

I really like your overall use of whitespace, especially right at the top.
My first thought after seeing the design is that it doesn't feel cluttered,
and this is my biggest issue with the current layout. But the more I looked
into it, the more I noticed key areas are missing.

Russel has mentioned several times that djangoproject.com is not only for
developers. We need to "sell" the project to sponsors who provide publicity
and financial support, and managers who can foment adoption of our most
loved framework in design shops around the globe and corporate environments
seeking modern solutions to everyday challenges.

It could be argued that developers themselves don't need a "download"
button. Django is hosted on at least half a dozen platforms and the ways to
access these are also greatly diverse. I'm one of those who believe that
familiarity with python packages and VCS tools are paramount to the success
of Django developers, so pip and git are probably more relevant in today's
world than tarballs.

We also need to do address how Django relies on the community to prosper,
and anyone can contribute. Users can submit tickets, developers can patch
code, newbies can write docs and many more. This also needs to stand out in
the layout.

I like your use of silver and to be honest, it goes with green much better
than our current beige, whilst looking more professional, clean and modern.
I see no reason for keeping *everything* silver, however. Surely we could
include a dash of green in the middle and bottom section, don't you agree?

I also don't think the blog posts are layed out in a particularly elegant
way. There's no telling what the most recent post is, and laying them out
on a grid seems like a waste of valuable space. Perhaps you could split
that into a main area on the left and additional, less prominent info on
the right?

A lot of the previous mockups made great suggestions on addition content
that you could incorporate, like videocasts for example.

Last but not least, I don't get the logo. It's not that it doesn't look
good, but it simply doesn't fit Django. The framework is not in any way
related to chatting, so the speech bubble feels out of place. As for the
icons, they're somewhat random and fail to illustrate what the project is
about.

"The web framework for perfeccionists with deadlines" is a very abstract
concept. If we can't come up with a concrete drawing of that vision, we
should at least be inspired to design a conceptual and abstract piece that
resonates with the notions of "framework", "perfeccionism", and
"deadlines". Django's most admired strength is how it manages to solve the
trade off between robustness and complexity in a seemingly natural way, and
we should convey that.

Before getting back to work, take a look at the previous mockups and the
criticism that followed. There's a lot to be learned from what others did
well, and it might also help you avoid the same pitfalls.


Cheers,
André Terra

Re: Suggestion: make auth login view more dynamic

Hedde van der Heide — 2012-05-24T13:08:22

< at >Andy, I agree, it's perfectly possible to create you own auth backend now, so theres no need to change it if new views are sceduled. It just felt as a repetitive exercise

< at >Florian, The other context variables should be dynamic aswell. I don't agree with your template logic. Django always seems to pass this 'form' name in, which is a problem when you have a page with multiple forms coming form django itself (for example: registration and auth). Ofcourse there's logic workarounds, but still, I don't think those should be hardcoded.

Hedde


Op 24 mei 2012, om 14:57 heeft Andrew Ingram het volgende geschreven:


Met vriendelijke groet,

Hedde van der Heide

Developer & Sales
intellimedia.nl

[T] +31(0)6 - 11 717 441
[E] h.vanderheide-SjywH5DZ67IpWRYgfXLN7A< at >public.gmane.org

---
TWITTER < at >intelli_media

Re: Suggestion: make auth login view more dynamic

Andrew Ingram — 2012-05-24T12:57:44

It seems to me there'd be more mileage in making new class-based
versions of the auth views.

- Andy

On 24 May 2012 13:51, Florian Apolloner <f.apolloner-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: Suggestion: make auth login view more dynamic

Florian Apolloner — 2012-05-24T12:51:25

Hi,

-1 from me here.

A) why don't you have site_name_name etc (those are still fixed).
B) templates need to be able to rely on a name, if your template expects a 
different name user {% with form as my_form %} 

Cheers,
Florian

On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:02:53 PM UTC+2, Hedde van der Heide wrote:

Re: Redesign of djangoproject.com?

Łukasz Rekucki — 2012-05-24T06:03:44

You really might want to read this thread before posting any mockups -
especially Russell's comments.

Just to point out one problem: where is the "Code" or "File a bug"
link ? If someone wants to contribute to Django in some way: code, doc
fixes, translation, money for DSF, etc., the site should make it easy
to find the necessary information for that to happen (like a link bug
tracker, *link to github*, link to Transifex and a contact to DSF).
"Download" is really not the most important link these days.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Multi-tenant Django

schinckel — 2012-05-24T04:47:20

I played around a bit with using this, and got something quite workable 
going on.

https://bitbucket.org/schinckel/django-multi-schema

It's really only an exploration, but does show that it can be done.

The problems actually really only got hard once you factor south into the 
equation.

There are a few little hacky things that needed to be done (like setting 
the search path),
and it probably only works on postgres, but as a concept I still feel like 
it has legs.

There are also a couple of other approaches out there, too.

Matt.


On Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:36:58 AM UTC+9:30, Anssi Kääriäinen wrote:

Re: Redesign of djangoproject.com?

Ashraful Sheikh — 2012-05-24T00:36:53

Hi everyone,

I saw this on HackerNews(news.ycombinator.com) and wanted to contribute. 
Here is my mockup: http://i.imgur.com/dSMSJ.jpg

With the design, I focused on keeping the look extremely clean, 
professional and minimalistic. The content is based on that of the current 
site. The mockup may seem a bit lacking in color, but adding eye-catching 
icons for the features, and the screens for the "built with Django" section 
will add sufficient color to liven up the design. On wider screens, the 
blog posts will appear in a siderbar to the left of the features list.

If you guys like it, email me at inlith-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org, or reply here. You can 
check out my previous work at madebyargon.com. Some of you may have seen 
the redesign I did for VideoLAN (videolan.org) which receive a positive 
reaction from the open-source community surrounding VLC.

Thanks.

On Saturday, April 28, 2012 2:05:27 PM UTC+6, Russell Keith-Magee wrote:

Re: Multi-tenant Django

Anssi Kääriäinen — 2012-05-23T18:06:58

One schema per tenant would also be pretty good. It makes it much
easier to do cross-db queries, or use a public schema for common
stuff. This should be doable if/when the support for database schemas
is included. I got pretty far in that feature in ticket #6148, but it
turns out to be pretty complex to support introspection and creation
on all the databases for both production and testing. So, it remains
to see if we want to add all that complexity. Still, multitenancy
support seems to be one use case where the database schemas support
could be very useful in Django.

 - Anssi

Re: Multi-tenant Django

Josh Cartmell — 2012-05-23T16:32:21

I wanted to point out that Mezzanine doesn't actually just use
django.contrib.sites.  Mezzanine uses django.contrib.sites and thread
locals.  The way it is set up example1.com and example2.com can both
be driven by the exact same django instance but have different
content.  The third paragraph in the first post of this thread
explains a bit more about how it works:
http://groups.google.com/group/mezzanine-users/browse_thread/thread/e173dee4c683e05c

On May 9, 8:15 pm, Brett H <brett.hay...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Suggestion: make auth login view more dynamic

Hedde van der Heide — 2012-05-23T11:02:53

I couldn't find an existing ticket but I'd like to suggest a change to make the basic auth view more dynamic (I'm not fond of hardcoded context variables :-))

change:

def login(request, template_name='registration/login.html',
          redirect_field_name=REDIRECT_FIELD_NAME,
          authentication_form=AuthenticationForm,
          current_app=None, extra_context=None):

to:

def login(request, template_name='registration/login.html',
          redirect_field_name=REDIRECT_FIELD_NAME,
          authentication_form=AuthenticationForm,
          current_app=None, extra_context=None, form_name='form'):


and obviously:

    context = {
        form_name: form,
        redirect_field_name: redirect_to,
        'site': current_site,
        'site_name': current_site.name,
    }


Kind Regards,

Hedde van der Heide

Re: New Release of IBM_DB_DJANGO (1.0.4)

Mario Briggs — 2012-05-23T05:05:57

On May 23, 3:07 am, Anssi Kääriäinen <anssi.kaariai...-k5wbR+HVKhg< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:
 If there is need and interest for similar work for DB2 I am
Anssi, thank you very much for the offer. We (IBM_DB_DJANGO team) will
certainly reach out to you if we are in need of this

regards
Mario

Re: Multi-tenant Django

Anthony Briggs — 2012-05-23T00:16:13

I did a similar thing for some of my projects - the problem is that you
can't reuse any non-multitenant apps without hacking the multitenant stuff
in first, ie. it's a bit of a hack, plus it makes things harder to maintain
going forwards.

One database per tenant should (in theory) make life much simpler.

Anthony


On 22 May 2012 23:50, Bernardo Pires <carneiro.be-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: New Release of IBM_DB_DJANGO (1.0.4)

Ian Kelly — 2012-05-22T22:56:23

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Anssi Kääriäinen
<anssi.kaariainen-k5wbR+HVKhg< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

I try to make a point of running the Oracle backend through the test
suite in the lead-up to each minor release and fixing whatever I find.
 Unfortunately, I rarely find the time to do much more than that these
days.  I wonder whether Oracle would even make it into core if the
decision were revisited.

Re: New Release of IBM_DB_DJANGO (1.0.4)

Anssi Kääriäinen — 2012-05-22T22:07:45

On May 23, 12:35 am, "Daniel Sokolowski"
<daniel.sokolow...-rKNhcObLy9Pby3iVrkZq2A< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

I don't know about licensing... I believe the issue is that we don't
have enough manpower to keep more backends updated in core. Even now
the Oracle backend is somewhat problematic - there aren't that many
contributors (or committers for that matter) who have Oracle
installed, and thus it is somewhat common that commits break that
backend. Then we fix those errors afterwards when/if we spot the
errors. Adding another not commonly available backend to the matrix
would cause more similar problems.

Having the backend in core is somewhat problematic for the above
reasons. But not having the backends in core is problematic for the
users... Still, at least for now it is better for the backends to live
outside core.

BTW I have just committed some patches with the aim of making the full
Django test suite pass when using django-mssql (another 3rd party
backend). If there is need and interest for similar work for DB2 I am
willing to commit patches...

 - Anssi

Re: Django git guidelines

Anssi Kääriäinen — 2012-05-22T21:39:41

The catch was meant to be that you won't get to be official author if
you don't do the final polish yourself. Maybe that isn't the brightest
of idea, we would probably still want that author information in this
case, too.

The more I work with the pull requests, the clearer it is that we need
not be overly pedantic with requiring the author to do all the
polishing. Requiring the author to remove one space, then waiting for
that space to be removed and finally merging the work is a lot more
laborious than just doing this simple change on commit.

So, I will try to reword the doc changes to suggest a lightweight path
for those who just want their change into Django (patch in Trac ticket
or a pull request, no need for good commit messages or rebasing), and
then have documentation for how to create perfect commit ready pull
requests, and suggest trying to use that path if the contributor wants
to contribute to Django more than just a single patch.

This is very much work in progress and I expect more changes to the
workflow still.

Thank you all very much for the feedback so far,
 - Anssi

Re: New Release of IBM_DB_DJANGO (1.0.4)

Daniel Sokolowski — 2012-05-22T21:35:55

Is it a licensing issue that this is not included in core?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rahul
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:18 AM
To: Django developers
Subject: New Release of IBM_DB_DJANGO (1.0.4)

IBM_DB_DJANGO-1.0.4
-----------------------------------
IBM_DB_DJANGO adaptor enables access to IBM databases from Django
applications http://www.djangoproject.com/. The adaptor is developed
and maintained by IBM.

What's New?
--------------------
- Added support for Django-1.4

- Backward compatibilty - Same codebase works with older supported
version of Django

- Added support to enable Django's USE_TZ feature

- Added support for Django's bulk_create

- Added support for 'SELECT FOR UPDATE'

- Added module version string __version__


SVN access to the source
---------------------------------------
http://code.google.com/p/ibm-db/source/browse/trunk/IBM_DB/ibm_db_django/

Installation
----------------
$ easy_install ibm_db_django

Feedback/Suggestions/Issues
--------------------------------------------
You can provide us feedback/suggestions, or report a bug/defect, or
ask for help by using any of the following channels:
1. Mailing us at opendev-r/Jw6+rmf7HQT0dZR+AlfA< at >public.gmane.org
2. Opening a new issue at http://code.google.com/p/ibm-db/issues/list.
3. By opening new discussion at http://groups.google.co.in/group/ibm_db.
For prerequisites, installation steps and help details, visit -
http://code.google.com/p/ibm-db/wiki/ibm_db_django_README
Try this out and let us know you valuable feedback. Have fun.

Cheers,
Rahul Priyadarshi

Download Express-C for free, go to:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
http://www.ibm.com/software/data/db2/express/download.html?S_CMP=ECDDWW01&S_TACT=ACDB2011

Re: Django git guidelines

Alex Ogier — 2012-05-22T20:54:20

Git actually has native support for this workflow. Each commit has an
"author" and a "committer" which are typically the same, but in the
case of a squash merge or patch are different.

For example, http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=commit;h=72c04af9a2d57b7945cf3de8e71461bd80695d50

Best,
Alex Ogier

Re: Django git guidelines

Richard Laager — 2012-05-22T20:34:58

This isn't an issue. Just do:
    git commit --author "John Doe <jdoe-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ< at >public.gmane.org>"

And if the "squash merge" workflow (which isn't something I've used)
doesn't allow you to set the author, then just follow it by:
    git commit --amend --author "John Doe <jdoe-hcDgGtZH8xNBDgjK7y7TUQ< at >public.gmane.org>"

Announcement: twice-monthly Django sprints in San Francisco

Jeremy Dunck — 2012-05-22T19:30:11

My company, Votizen, now has an office in San Francisco, just a block
from the 4th St Caltrain station.  We have room to host sprints -
easily 25 people, though we can grow if there is demand.  We have a
professional kitchen, great coffee gear, and maybe a kegerator soon.
There are many great places to eat within an easy walk.

We will begin hosting day-long, twice-monthly sprints for Django on
the 1st and 3rd Saturdays of each month.  We hope that by making it a
comfortable length and a regular occurrence, we can grow a good core
of contribution.

Note: this first sprint will be on Sunday, June 3rd due to a prior
commitment - sorry about that. :-)

Since we need to manage space and setup demands in order to make this
a regular event, we'll use eventbrite for free tickets.

If your company would like to sponsor food & beverage on a per-event
basis, that would be appreciated.  Please contact me off-list for
logistics.

So, if you are in the bay area and would like to contribute,
collaborate, mentor or be mentored, you are invited to attend - please
sign up:
  http://sfdjangosprint.eventbrite.com/