gmane.comp.mozilla.firefox.vimperator

Re: Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, and Ctrl+Z

Daniel Bainton — 2008-10-07T06:08:13

2008/10/7 Martin Stubenschrott public.gmane.org>: "I" never did what ctrl-v does, I think ctrl-v has always been ctrl-v in Vimperator. "I" was changed to ctrl-q and then to ctrl-z. ;) -- Daniel

Re: :help completion funniness

Ted Pavlic — 2008-10-07T01:41:15

This problem *appears* to be fixed as of the "hg pull" I just did. Daniel Bainton wrote:

Re: Makefile.common is wrong

Ted Pavlic — 2008-10-07T01:37:45

That seems to fix it! I did an hg pull to tip a190edff3b8d ("fixed muttador style display") and everything works well. Thanks! -- Ted P.S. That pull included "fixed XPI generation, thanks teramako" (30b3f0b22360). I'm GUESSING that was the fix.

Multibyte characters problem when using :!

Alan CHENG — 2008-10-07T01:34:42

Re: Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, and Ctrl+Z

Martin Stubenschrott — 2008-10-06T22:47:26

hi, Thanks for this long and very good post, i agree with most of your points (and even i have :noremap

etc. in my windows version at work). It's not so easy to get rid of the keys, however. "I" was deliberately changed to ctrl-v because: *) i wanted the same in key in both normal as in insert mode *) ctrl-v IS used in vim for some similar thing, but just in insert mode. ctrl-c is even harder to get rid off, as is used for something else and there needs to be a way to stop loading the page. ctrl-z: well, i changed it from ctrl-q recently as too many people complained. changing to ctrl-s might work for vimperator, but i got so used to the semantics of ctrl-s in muttator (save in archive, similarly to s and S) that i don't really want to move it to ctrl-s. That said, i know that overrideing those keys sucks for windows users, it's just that i want the same bindings on all platforms, but haven't found useful keys which are still free (with ctrl-z it's even 4 keys, i just don't think we'll find it). since all ctrl-c,v/z don't do something really important in vimperator, I think resorting to the :noremap method works best. any other solutions? Martin On 2008-10-05 21:45, Jim Babcock wrote:

Re: Vimbox

2008-10-06T21:56:49

Re: Makefile.common is wrong

Martin Stubenschrott — 2008-10-06T21:29:37

Thanks, applied. < at >Ted: if you read this, does that fix your build? (you'll probably have to wait till tomorrow for it to show up in the nightlies) On 2008-10-06 18:55, M.Terada wrote:

"Added :sty chrome to style" (changeset 530c13cc1ade)breaks Firefox

Ted Pavlic — 2008-10-06T19:15:38

I've been pulling down the Mercurial clone of the Vimperator mirror. Today I grabbed a batch of changes from the last few days, and these changes broke Firefox on both Windows and OS X. Firefox starts and seems to get "stuck" before it executes the .vimperatorrc file. I can *type* at the command line, but it never registers my keypress. I rolled things back until things started working, and I found that the offending changeset was: ===== 2008-10-06 maglione * src/chrome.manifest, src/content/bookmarks.js, src/content/buffer.js, src/content/liberator.js, src/content/muttator.xul, src/content/muttatorcompose.xul, src/content/tabs.js, src/content/ui.js, src/content/util.js, src/content/vimperator.xul: Added :sty chrome to style the main window, moved a bunch of inline styles to CSS, fixed some completion bugs, removed util.blankDocument [530c13cc1ade] ===== Has anyone else noticed that Vimperator ceases to start up after this "fix"? --Ted

Makefile.common is wrong

M.Terada — 2008-10-06T16:55:01

Hi In resend days, src/content/buffer.xhtml was added. But Makefile.common is not modefied. here is a patch. -- Index: Makefile.common =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/vimperator/src/Makefile.common,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -u -r1.6 Makefile.common --- Makefile.common14 Sep 2008 07:54:16 -00001.6 +++ Makefile.common6 Oct 2008 16:50:33 -0000 < at >< at > -16,6 +16,7 < at >< at > -o -path '*.css'\ -o -path '*.xul'\ -o -path '*.html'\ + -o -path '*.xhtml'\ \)\ } JAR_DIRS = $(foreach f,${JAR_FILES},$(dir $f))

Re: :help completion funniness

Daniel Bainton — 2008-10-06T14:34:40

2008/10/6 Ted Pavlic public.gmane.org>: No, that shouldn't be it. I have an intel Macbook from a year ago and I get it too. I've had it for quite a while already... -- Daniel

Re: Fast copying of link location?

Ted Pavlic — 2008-10-06T12:38:30

Nevermind... I found it now. By typing ":help f" very very slowly (to prevent the Vimperator-OSX bug), I was able to find what I needed. ;y Thanks -- Ted Ted Pavlic wrote:

Fast copying of link location?

Ted Pavlic — 2008-10-06T12:36:51

Right now I can hit "f" (or "F") and type in a link that I want to *GO TO* on a page. It would be nice if I could do the same for a link that I wanted to *COPY*. That is, I still have to use my mouse to right-click on a link and go to "Copy Link Location." Does Vimperator currently have the ability to access "Copy Link Location" similar to how it does fast links? (I'd comb through the help documentation, but as discussed in a previous thread, ":help" doesn't work on a Mac with vimperator) --Ted

Re: :help completion funniness

Ted Pavlic — 2008-10-06T12:35:11

Hm. I'm running a pretty slow Mac (1.67 GHz Powerbook G4 with OS X 10.4). Do you think that might have anything to do with it? I have a feeling it does *not* because I seem to get the problem regardless of how fast I type. I'm *sure* that this problem was introduced *recently*. I guess I just need to go back through all the changesets until I can find the one that did it. :( --Ted

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, and Ctrl+Z

Jim Babcock — 2008-10-05T19:45:21

Right now, vimperator remaps both Ctrl+C (from 'copy' to 'cancel') and Ctrl+V (from 'paste' to 'pass-through'). On Linux, the preferred method of copy/paste is with the middle mouse button, so this is not a problem. On Windows, this is a user-interface disaster and it badly needs to be fixed. There are three places you might copy from: text from a Web page, text from a form field, and text from an external application. There are two places you might copy to: into a form field, and into an external application. The address and command bars work like form fields. Copying from... A web page: 'Y' works, '^C' doesn't Form field: 'Y' doesn't work, '^C' does Extern application: 'Y' doesn't work, '^C' does Copying to... Form field: '^V' doesn't work, '^V,^V' does External application: '^V' works, '^V,^V' pastes twice Or, seen another way Copy Paste Page Y N/A Form ^C ^V,^V App ^C ^V Ordinary users won't memorize that table. They'll never figure it out, because it's not documented explicitly, and they wouldn't read it even if it was. Instead, they'll use the right-click menu, the only thing that works everywhere. In fact, a few weeks after I started using Vimperator, I caught myself doing just that, in a completely unrelated application, something I had never done before. We need to restore ^C and ^V to their original, rightful functions as copy and paste, which means displacing the ^C=cancel and ^V=pass-through hotkeys. In fact, both of these hotkeys are unique to vimperator and do not appear in vim. ^V means 'block visual' in vim, which doesn't apply in vimperator, so pass-through can be easily assigned to some other key. I suggest backslash in command mode and ctrl+backslash in both command and insert modes. That leaves ^C. I think that should be moved to ^S. This has two good mnemonics: it's 'stop', and it's also the Unix hotkey for XOFF, which is useless but semantically similar. ^S is currently "save page as" in vimperator, which is rarely used and can still be accessed with :save or :saveas. Undo is also broken; it was ^Z, but ^Z is not pass-through mode and there's no way to undo edits in a form field without using the mouse. I see no reason not to move that to another hotkey, especially since ^Z in vim means suspend, which is completely unrelated, and unexpectedly finding yourself in pass-through mode is extremely disorienting. I can't think of a non-arbitrary hotkey to change this to, but ^Z was pretty arbitrary in the first place, so any unused hotkey will do.

Re: Looks like another really good program I can't usebecause it isn't coherently exlplained.

Doug Kearns — 2008-10-04T15:58:57

I may be misunderstanding you but your last couple of messages seem to suggest that you're not aware of the difference between Vim the text editor and Vimperator the Firefox extension. Vim (http://www.vim.org/) is a text editor. One of the "Big Two" in Geekdom, the other being Emacs (http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/). Vimperator, what you're using here, is a Firefox extension _heavily_ inspired by Vim and it's user interface. As such it should be easy to pick up if you are a Vim user (the target audience) but if not I imagine it would be quite difficult. Regards, Doug

Re: Looks like another really good program I can't usebecause it isn't coherently exlplained.

Doug Thompson — 2008-10-04T14:51:04

I understand where using technical language can be the only way to explain something precisely, but a glossary of terms can definitely go a long way toward helping those less fortunate in the education dept, The words that come to mind off the bat that I didn't understand were, "buffers", "mappings" and it seems like some things were just stated in a technical way that was hard to understand. I'm sure any word that's definition is too computer specific to likely be found in the dictionary would be a good one to include in a glossary. I'm only using vim for what I assume it's chief purpose is--as a system of mouseless navigation. I'm interested in what other uses it has as well. Is there any online documentation or tutorials you know of that might help me understand it better? I know it's somewhat complicated, but what I've learned so far has been serving me well! Definitely beats the crap out of other mousless nav programs I've used. One seemed to always put numbers on every element on the screen except the one I wanted to sellect! Drove me nuts! I gave up on it after that till I found vim. On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 2:08 AM, Martin Stubenschrott public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: Looks like another really good program I can't usebecause it isn't coherently exlplained.

Martin Steer — 2008-10-04T10:35:06

Well, I would say that vim is far harder to come to terms with than vimperator. It was vimperator that led me to give vim another try. In terms of the dominant GUI paradigm, vimperator is peculiar, so yes, not for everyone. But a web browser's still a web browser. The way to learn it is to use it. No technical education required, just persistence. -- Martin

Re: Looks like another really good program I can't use because it isn't coherently exlplained.

Martin Stubenschrott — 2008-10-04T09:08:14

Can you give examples of the documentation or special words which were especially hard for you to understand? It's not that we don't want to improve the docs when it's written badly (badly doesn't mean technical though). -- Martin

Re: Looks like another really good program I can't usebecause it isn't coherently exlplained.

Daniel Bainton — 2008-10-04T06:27:18

2008/10/4 Martin Stubenschrott public.gmane.org>: Oh come on.. I haven't studied computer science and still I get it all. I've just self-taught everything myself. ;) (Well, ok, my company "trained" me for 6 months to be a professional linux developer, but I didn't learn *that* much new stuff there... <.<) -- Daniel

Re: :help completion funniness

Daniel Bainton — 2008-10-04T06:14:55

2008/10/3 Ted Pavlic public.gmane.org>: This seems to be a Mac OS X issue only, I've been having it too. Works fine with Linux though and I have no idea why it does it. -- Daniel

vim

Jan Snyder — 2008-10-04T04:33:48

Vim isn't so hard. As you say, just go through vim tutorial and it's fairly straight forward to pick up. It's just one of those things you have to read about before using and modify with an "rc" config file. Of course if you don't use a config file it will be fairly unusable out of the box. I find most quality programs have an rc file. In Linux I have them all in one folder called backup with symlinks to them in other folders, so to back them up I just copy the backup folder with it's symlinks and put it into a archive and then mail it to my gmail account. That way if my linux gets messed up or I upgrade my config settings are safe. -Jan