gmane.comp.lib.sdl

Re: Feature of SDL

Dimitris Zenios — 2012-05-24T19:51:58

When i was talking about a developer or a team of developers, i didnt
mention payment, for the same reason Marcus pointed above.I was
thinking of people much like Keith Packard is for X Windows
System.People that will develop,mentor,approve,review and anything
else that has to do with SDL and pathes as such.

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Marcus von Appen <mva< at >sysfault.org> wrote:

Re: Feature of SDL

Marcus von Appen — 2012-05-24T19:36:30


[...]

Paying people for doing the work does not necessarily mean they

- do the work that is needed
- are worth the money
- will drive the project forward
- do not loose interest, if their personal goals are not met

Especially, if they do not have any pressure from the customers ;-).

It'd be better, if there are people, who actually want to keep SDL alive
and bring it forward, with all the ups and downs of such a
community-driven project. It could be loosely organised like that:

  - core team (Sam, Ryan, whoever) to say yay or nay as final instance,
    if problems within the development can not be sorted out by the
    developers with commit bits or argues arise within the team
  - a bunch of developers with commit bits, who can and are willing to
    develop, review patches, review extension to be put upstream, etc.
  - all minions, who love to work with it, have ideas for it, submit
    patches and enhancements via the tracker or mailing list and so on
    and so forth


Cheers
Marcus
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Re: Feature of SDL

Alex Barry — 2012-05-24T19:18:29

It is possible to commit new features in patches, too, so the patch process
I suggested is just as applicable, and the process wouldn't have to be any
different

-Alex

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Dimitris Zenios
<dimitris.zenios< at >gmail.com>wrote:

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Re: Feature of SDL

Dimitris Zenios — 2012-05-24T19:16:11

The problem is that by only adding patches will not move SDL
forward.Sure it will fix some problems but in the end it will stay at
a point where the project will be stalled again.SDL needs constant
development and I agree with Nicholas that a dedicated developer or a
team of developers will be needed for the project to flourish and move
forward.

I also agree with Alex that a workflow on how patches will be imported
to main repo is a must.Maybe we can start with that and continue from
there.

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Alex Barry <alex.barry< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: Feature of SDL

Alex Barry — 2012-05-24T19:00:32

I think the problem in question is "how do we get community patches into
SDL, and what process needs to take place?"

We have a pile of patches that are "in the backlogs" with no one with the
time or repo access to push them ahead.

Here is what I propose for a process:


   1. A patch must contain: a test case (demonstrates where SDL is broken
   or could be sped up, or whatever), the patch *.diff file (that's how we're
   doing patches, right?), and what OS the problem is reported on.
   2. We have some sort of list where people apply with their current
   system specs, and their level of expertise
   3. After a patch is submitted, people with the appropriate expertise do
   a code review, make sure it's going to do the fix and not make another hole
   in SDL (this may be hard to manage from a community stand point).
   4. A patch gets submitted, people who have a system where the problem
   can be detected get notified to test it.
   5. Wait until at least 3 unique people test and confirm the patch is
   good.
   6. Pull request into main repo.

It would require some work, but then it's based on people's ability to
contribute, and I think it's efficient enough that we can get things moving
fairly quickly.  We may need Sam to add some sort of developer zone to the
website, but if we can get something like this up, I think the whole
community would benefit.

I know it sounds a little complicated, and maybe we can hone these ideas
down to something a little more user-friendly.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Nicholas Rishel <rishel.nick< at >gmail.com>wrote:

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Re: Feature of SDL

Nicholas Rishel — 2012-05-24T18:49:38

Overkill certainly if that is all they do; I assume an individual
contracted would not necessarily do these tasks alone, or at all.

In my eyes the problem is that, with good reason, there is no project
accountability. If you would tend to agree with this I would appreciate
hearing alternate ideas on how to solve it. :)

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Alex Barry <alex.barry< at >gmail.com> wrote:

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Re: Feature of SDL

Alex Barry — 2012-05-24T18:44:10

I don't think we need a dedicated developer - that seems like overkill for
someone who would only (Essentially) test patches and approve features.  A
community-driven model would work just as well for this, and it wouldn't
cost us a dime.  It would just feel like we're overcomplicating a simple
problem, but I may be completely wrong.

-Alex

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Nicholas Rishel <rishel.nick< at >gmail.com>wrote:

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Re: Feature of SDL

Nicholas Rishel — 2012-05-24T18:30:41

A dedicated developer for the project would help SDL significantly. As
already stated, Sam and Ryan have already dedicated so much to this project
and owe nothing to us. In the end no one who is justifiably accountable for
the project, and adding a community base does not solve this problem. A
single paid, full-time developer could fill this void.

I would propose that we consider investing the effort into a Kickstarter
project to organize funding for such a role, specifically proposing
Kickstarter due to it being a publicly accepted "middleman". I do believe
we should elicit input from Sam and Ryan on this before proceeding
(hopefully they'll notice this conversation), and should in the meantime
begin setting up a community base as proposed preiously.

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Dimitris Zenios <dimitris.zenios< at >gmail.com

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Re: Feature of SDL

Dimitris Zenios — 2012-05-24T15:54:56

I totally agree that the development should shift to a more
community-driven project

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Alex Barry <alex.barry< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: Feature of SDL

Alex Barry — 2012-05-24T14:19:01

Do we have any sort of documentation (by Sam or anyone, really) that
describes or demonstrates what should be in a patch (how many bugs can one
patch include, what sort of review process should be use, etc etc)?
I think Sam made if fairly clear a few months ago that we'll be shifting to
a community-driven project, rather than a one man show, but I think he
needs us to come up with some strict but work-able guidelines on how we
deal with individual patches (submitting and reviewing).
-Alex

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Brian Barnes <ggadwa< at >charter.net> wrote:

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Re: Feature of SDL

Brian Barnes — 2012-05-24T14:08:17

I've used SDL 2 successfully on both an OS X game in the OS X app store 
(the only problem is the cmd-q beep, which is in bugzilla) and I have an 
iOS game waiting for review right now using it (I had to patch it, which 
I've put up here before.)  It's also used in dim3, my free 3D 
development environment.

If somebody somewhere would make a decision on which patch to use -- 
mine for instance -- the iOS stuff would be ready to go.  After that, 
people have worked up patches for the game center problem, that can go 
on top of that.  Then iOS should be good.  Android can just use the same 
framework.

SDL 2 still isn't useful on windows because relative mouse movement 
still isn't in.  That's the big hold up.

Here's the problem, and I'll be pretty frank about this.  There *are* 
patches that will fill in the missing holes, but nobody but Sam is 
really the guy (at this point) that has the authority to say what patch 
goes in or out.  He needs to make a decision.  I'm not sure what Ryan's 
say is.  There's no clear chain of command except that it's Sam's baby.

I think we in the community can fix the holes, we just need the chance 
to do it.

Like the iOS stuff, there's competing patches, but most do what they are 
supposed to do.  Just somebody has to say OK and land it in the trunk.

NOW: Important notes.  Sam owes us nothing, and has given us a lot. 
Same with Ryan.  This is not to construed as anything but an assessment 
of the current state of affairs as I know it, and could be wrong.

[>] Brian

Re: Feature of SDL

Dimitris Zenios — 2012-05-24T07:09:59

Even SDL 1.2 without proper development it will not be able to run on
newer system.That's why we need a maintainer.

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Jesse Palser
<jessepalsermailinglists< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: SOLVED PROBLEM - THE FOX IS OK

Pablo Marty — 2012-05-24T03:31:16

Thank you
I have met MINUS a few weeks ago ....
I uploaded my Mario game there ... but you need to install SdlDotNet to be able to run it
I have to solve that
 
Tomorrow I ll try to upload again and send you the link
 
up to now, the list has helped me a lot
thank you all
 
Pablo

Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago. 
 

________________________________
 De: R Manard <dranikist< at >gmail.com>
Para: Pablo Marty <tigrepotrazosalvaje< at >yahoo.com.ar>; SDL Development List <sdl< at >lists.libsdl.org> 
Enviado: miércoles, 23 de mayo de 2012 5:32
Asunto: Re: [SDL] SOLVED PROBLEM - THE FOX IS OK
  

Most isp's give you a web space so you can put up a web page so if you have that simply put ur stuff there and link to it so people can download it. Smartftp lets you drag and drop and your isp should be able to give you all the settings and what address to like to and everything. If it's just my isp and i'm spoiled im sorry.


On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Pablo Marty <tigrepotrazosalvaje< at >yahoo.com.ar> wrote:

THANK YOU GUYS!  
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Re: SDL on Iphone

michelleC — 2012-05-24T00:00:38

I feel your pain, but have had a lot of success with sdl on the iPhone.

I haven't done anything yet with sdl2 thats coming

but here's something I've been working on with sdl 1.3

https://github.com/mooncatventures-group/RTSPPlay




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Re: Feature of SDL

Jesse Palser — 2012-05-23T22:05:04

Hi,

I will be using SDL 1.2+OGL forever!
Just my 2 cents...

JeZ+Lee
16BitSoft
Video Game Design Studio
www.16BitSoft.com

Re: Feature of SDL

Patrick Baggett — 2012-05-23T22:04:47

OK, my suggestion: maybe it is time to apply some community-based project
management.

=> What bugs need to be fixed? What features aren't fully implemented?
Generate a list of blocker bugs or bugs that personally "bug" you in your
project. Elect person with commit access to maintain/publish the list, if
they are willing. Otherwise, someone else can volunteer to keep the list of
bugs.

=> Does a fix exist already?
Check mailing list, personal HG archives. Dig up patches. Write one if
possible.

=> Does a bugzilla entry exist for it?
If not, make it, add to list, notify maintainer(s).

=> Is it fixed already?
If you can test it, then test it. Let maintainer(s) know they are fixed.

=> What bugs are left?
Maintainers should be able to publish a list of bugzilla entries that can
be referenced easily so a release countdown can happen.

Patrick

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Dimitris Zenios
<dimitris.zenios< at >gmail.com>wrote:

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Feature of SDL

Dimitris Zenios — 2012-05-23T21:50:24

Hello guys

I think its time for a discussion to be made regarding the future of
SDL.From what i understand its almost ready for at least a Beta
release but no one is willing to fix remaining bugs.How do you think
this project shall continue? If Sam or Ryan don't have time to work on
the project any more, maybe its better to start thinking of ways to
continue the project in another way.It really makes me sad looking at
SDL not going forward any more.Sam,Ryan, What do you think?

Best Regards
Dimitris Zenios

p.s:I would like to here everybodys thoughts regarding this matter.

Re: SDL2 does not compile

shad0w — 2012-05-23T18:11:37

MrOzBarry wrote:
[/quote]

Yes, I am also using ArchLinux.

The fix works fine, but I think it would be good if this would be commited to hg.




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Re: SDL2 does not compile

Gabriel Jacobo — 2012-05-23T17:59:12

2012/5/23 Patrick Baggett <baggett.patrick< at >gmail.com>

I've requested Sam (and have been granted) commit access to the official
repository, which I plan to use to incorporate (at least initially) easy
fixes that are lying around in the tracker. I'll prioritize reports that
include patches and that I can test, so if anyone wants to fill a bug
report for this in the tracker and attach a patch I'll take a look at it.

Re: SDL2 does not compile

Patrick Baggett — 2012-05-23T16:25:01

There have been a few patches and bug reports floating around -- who is
testing/ack/nak/reviewing/committing them?

SDL GODS, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US?

/dramatization

But really, who has commit access? Is anyone making these changes show up
in HG?

Patrick

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Alex Barry <alex.barry< at >gmail.com> wrote:

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Re: SDL2 does not compile

Alex Barry — 2012-05-23T15:07:05

The fix was posted in that thread - did you try it?  Are you also using
Arch linux?
-Alex

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:52 AM, shad0w <j-ot< at >online.de> wrote:

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