http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2879 <pre> QWERTYUIOP, we got divorced in 1999 Bob </pre> accessys< at >smart.net 2013-05-21T16:32:20 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2878 <pre> You've always said that, Bob, so I've left my laptop keys alone. Which also serves to remind just how far we've come from a distant time when we were asked to type in an awkward way but instead took a different path. QWERTYUIOP, I never knew ya. </pre> jim51r< at >firehydrant.org 2013-05-21T15:48:57 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2877 <pre> right having the "Wrong" letters on my keys is just another security step Bob On Tue, 21 May 2013, Carl Pearson wrote: </pre> accessys< at >smart.net 2013-05-21T14:46:01 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2876 <pre>I am a touch typer sometimes and extremely fast hunt and pecker who still looks at the keys occasionally when I switch keyboards. I can type over 60 wpm on Qwerty and over 100 on Dvorak but if one just removed a keycap and lost it say 'H" and replaced ith with the letter "Z" I would hesitate most of the times I struck it when I first sat down at keyboard for first few hours or days till I adapted. I got an expensive Das keyboard with no labels to force myself to touch type but I got busy and then 2 years later when I fired it up the "H" key position was dead :( so I could not use it and it makes me hesitant to buy from them again if their QC is that bad on shipping hardware. I owned a TypeMatrix (the Square one) and I got used to it but cursed some of their choices but after a few years it failed (keys not pressing fully) and was too hard to clean. I owned a dual labelled one I loved that wore out but I could only type Dvorak on that. When I went to work the Qwerty labels just made me type Qwerty. Apparently my brain just still peeks occasionally. I tried but I could only type Dvorak on my dual labelled one where I "saw" the Dvorak labels only. Now that I use n devices (my iPad, my MacBook Pro OSX and MacBook pro BootCamp Windows, my work Windows machine, my galaxy Note II Phablet, my nexus 10, my Mom and familys computers) of course I look at keys. Even though I set them all to Dvorak they are "different' Dvoraks and different QWERTYs. In an ideal world I would train myself on 2 bluetooth blank keyboards so I quit looking and that may be a goal at some point. For now I am on enough different devices I look because they are all slightly different. I can write as fast as I think on Dvorak and Qwerty and am not transcribing. I also think Qwerty and Dvorak sucks for certain kinds of modern tasks like programming and my ideal keyboard would have display keys like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard since I also use a keyboard for Japanese too and computer programming and I have designed a modified Dvorak keyboard that is optimized for programming, accountants and replacing the mouse for common tasks. Imagine a "new shift" key that put 1-0 on home row and the shifted 1-0 on the row above and the bottom would be common programming symbols like {} etc. and my ideal keyboard would have a "right click" and "left click" keys and a trackpad for dialogs and inspectors so I could do a few mouse tasks without reaching for mouse. I want to implement this on a "every key is a display" keyboard when they get cheap next decade. I assume such keyboards will also have "suggestion" bars for autocomplete and spelling mistakes like cell phones/tablets do too catch up. On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Carl Pearson &lt;jman.org&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to: altkeyboards&lt; at &gt;eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe&lt; at &gt;eGroups.comYahoo! Groups Links &lt;*&gt; To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/ &lt;*&gt; Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional &lt;*&gt; To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altkeyboards/join (Yahoo! ID required) &lt;*&gt; To change settings via email: altkeyboards-digest&lt; at &gt;yahoogroups.com altkeyboards-fullfeatured&lt; at &gt;yahoogroups.com &lt;*&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: altkeyboards-unsubscribe&lt; at &gt;yahoogroups.com &lt;*&gt; Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ </pre> Charles Carroll 2013-05-21T14:01:51 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2875 <pre>Sorry for the top post, but don't understand. If one touch-types, what does one care what the keys say? I don't need to look at the keys, but even if I did, would be hard-pressed to get Apple to re-arrange them! On 5/20/13 11:50 PM, Draco Rat wrote: </pre> Carl Pearson 2013-05-21T13:20:35 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2874 <pre>That's the keyboard I use. It's awesome. I own 4 of them these days (4 computers) On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Charles Esterbrook &lt; Chuck.Esterbrook&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] </pre> Draco Rat 2013-05-21T04:50:09 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2873 <pre>http://www.typematrix.com/ TypeMatrix has qwerty, dvorak, french, etc. labeling. It's fairly small and easily goes in a laptop bag. It's just large enough to sit over a laptop keyboard which comes in handy in crowded spaces like planes. I don't know if they're selling bluetooth yet or not. Mine has a cord. </pre> Charles Esterbrook 2013-05-21T03:03:29 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2872 <pre>Can't offer much on that particular keyboard. However, I just bought their USB Dvorak keyboard (hardware Dvorak with Qwerty switch). I really like it. It's got a pretty good feel and a nice price. http://matias.ca/dvorak/ If you get the one you are looking at I'd be interested in hearing how it performs. On Monday, May 20, 2013, Charles Carroll &lt;911&lt; at &gt;learnasp.com&lt;javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '911&lt; at &gt;learnasp.com');&gt;&gt; wrote: </pre> Brian Chamberlain 2013-05-20T16:28:46 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2871 <pre>http://matias.ca/laptoppro/mac/ looks good. Anyone use that? It fits my criterion when looking for a bluetooth keyboard for my MacBook Pro and my work Windows machine. I am looking for something that could also be used for a Windows Machine as well but it will be used for the MacBook 90% of the time so it needs an Apple friendly layout. Occasionally I will use it for my Nexus 10 Android tablet and iPad 10" retina, but rarely. My primary criterion is that it be no larger than the 15" macbook pro in width since it will be in a case with the MacBook Pro. It could be slightly wider I will be getting an oversized case and I do want separate arrow keys if possible. I will buy two of them, one for my work Windows machine and one to carry with my MacBook Pro. As a side note, I type on a Dvorak keyboard but since chosing keyboards that have Dvorak labels limit my choices I just add glow in the dark stickers to label over my Qwerty keyboard. I would not mind a dual-labelled keyboard, but that is not in my requirements. I want a keyboard with a good feel and if possible separate arrow keys. </pre> Charles Carroll 2013-05-20T14:06:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2870 <pre> very interesting, wonder how well it would hold up to repeated impacts which seem to be the current issue with 3D printing Bob On Mon, 20 May 2013, Marcus Brooks wrote: </pre> accessys< at >smart.net 2013-05-20T13:35:57 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2869 <pre>Some time ago Peter Brun (I believe his name was) tried to sell/share instructions on how to convert a Selectric to Dvorak. He sold at least one of his actual conversions on Ebay (which I know because I was lucky enough to win the auction). I'm unaware of the technical intricacies associated with the conversion - aside from the fact there there is a mechanical matrix of sorts that needs to be rearranged to allow the Selectric to implement Dvorak instead of QWERTY. I believe Peter's conversion approach dealt minimally with the impact of low-surface-area characters like the period, comma, etc. If you Google "Peter Brun", you'll see some youtube videos and such related to the Selectric, but I'm unaware of how to contact him anymore (the e-mail I once had has not elicited a response). Joey On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, &lt;accessys&lt; at &gt;smart.net&gt; wrote: </pre> Joey Mink 2013-05-20T13:31:55 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2868 <pre> my understanding was that the Selectric hit certain keys slightly less hard to not cause holes in the paper, such as a period etc. Bob On Sun, 19 May 2013, Marcus Brooks wrote: </pre> accessys< at >smart.net 2013-05-20T13:24:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2867 <pre>Hmm. IBM Selectric type ball.... 3D printing... I wonder? </pre> Marcus Brooks 2013-05-20T11:30:51 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2866 <pre>Oh, you mean the IBM model M? I'm pretty sure the caps on that one are made to pop off and move around. (The key switches are angled so the caps all work on any row.) All the ones I used at IBM were like that. Otherwise your best bet is probably key labels (Hooleon or Fentek are names I remember). Then just select your layout in software. On May 19, 2013, at 11:22 PM, Draco Rat wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] </pre> Marcus Brooks 2013-05-20T11:17:52 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2865 <pre>Oh. The selectric was also a type of keyboard - not just a typewriter. I thought we were talking about the keyboard. If it's the typewriter, then yeah, you'd have to get one that's modified. --Draco On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 8:33 PM, Marcus Brooks &lt;marcus&lt; at &gt;mwbrooks.com&gt; wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] </pre> Draco Rat 2013-05-20T04:22:47 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2864 <pre>While the type ball conversion should work, I believe there was a full conversion scheme that fine-tuned the keypress tension, or something of that sort. I don't recall the conversion details, or why it was necessary. However, on the face of it an actual layout conversion would allow you to use any font for which a normal type ball was available. On the other hand, I can't think of a practical reason to use a Selectric anymore. I realize practicality isn't always a goal, but it's sort of tied in with the Dvorak rationale. An original Selectric might lose a lot of collector value if you modify it. On May 19, 2013, at 9:10 PM, accessys&lt; at &gt;smart.net wrote: </pre> Marcus Brooks 2013-05-20T03:33:14 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2863 <pre>Uh. What? On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 7:01 PM, &lt;accessys&lt; at &gt;smart.net&gt; wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] </pre> Draco Rat 2013-05-20T03:32:19 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2862 <pre>Neither does buying one that has a Dvorak pattern on it. The same step is still required between obtaining the keyboard and typing on it. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:44 PM, S Bjornstad &lt;sobjornstad&lt; at &gt;comcast.net&gt;wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] </pre> Draco Rat 2013-05-20T03:31:37 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2861 <pre> right you would need the Dvorak selectric "Ball" and I suspect IBM may have only made 20 of them..... Bob On Mon, 20 May 2013, S Bjornstad wrote: </pre> accessys< at >smart.net 2013-05-20T02:10:51 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2860 <pre> but that doesn't allow for Dvorak or other layouts. great way to learn a smart keyboard but nothing really helps with Qwerty Bob On Sun, 19 May 2013, Draco Rat wrote: </pre> accessys< at >smart.net 2013-05-20T02:01:56 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards/2859 <pre>Just thinking as if your keyboard is in Dvorak layout doesn't make the Selectric type in Dvorak... --- In altkeyboards&lt; at &gt;yahoogroups.com, Draco Rat &lt;dracorat&lt; at &gt;...&gt; wrote: </pre> S Bjornstad 2013-05-20T01:44:47 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.hardware.altkeyboards