gmane.comp.gnome.general

Gnome3 changes

Voldemar Lionmane — 2012-05-08T02:38:07

Hello

I do not know English very well, so hastily translated the text through
google.com.Original in Russian is below.

In this letter I would like to say something about the new Gnome3.
The visual style I definitely liked it, but, like many critics, I can not
disagree with the fact that the new design did not care about a vertical
distance of the application windows. In this regard, Unity a few steps
ahead of you. However, for Unity, this approach is not entirely appropriate
- visually it looks awful. But for some of the techniques of Gnome3 Unity
would be very helpful. What's more - they would have looked very out of
place and more to fit into the concept of mobile devices.

For more information on the coveted my change.

1. In the first place would have cost to return the clock to their
"rightful" place. Watch the middle of the panel - what is it??
2. The next step. Remove the key Activities, so you can move the icon
and the name of the current application to the left, to the edge of the
screen. Such placement of the title for more detailed application will
be combined.
3. In connection with the preceding paragraph have deployed Windows
applications need to remove the header and move the menu on the top panel
and display only when you hover / clamping alt (Hello Unity!). There
also ought to put the window controls (close, minimize, restore).
4. Slightly pull the right side panel, which would leave more space for
the window title and menu.
5. Now the task bar. Now it's not, but it's needed. At this point you
can not please everybody. The most practical solution - a dock on the
left. But I personally do not like the visual design. I would have done
the task bar on the bottom, similar to Trey. Only visually closer to a
main panel. By the way, there can also remove the Activities and show
them in the form of a button.

//--------------------------------------------------------

Здравствуйте.

В данном письме я хотел бы сказать кое-что о новом Gnome3.

Визуальный стиль мне безусловно понравился, но, как и многие критики, я не
могу не согласиться с тем, что новое оформление совершенно не заботится о
вертикальном расстоянии в окнах приложений. В этом плане Unity на несколько
шагов впереди Вас. Однако, для Unity такой подход не совсем уместен -
визуально это смотрится ужасно. А вот для Gnome3 некоторые приемы из Unity
были бы весьма полезны. Более того - они бы смотрелись очень к месту и еще
больше бы вписывались в концепцию мобильных устройств.

Более подробно о столь желанных мной изменениях.

В первую очередь стоило бы вернуть часы на их "законное" место. Часы
посередине панели - ЧТО ЭТО???

Следующий шаг. Убрать кнопку Activities, чтобы можно было сдвинуть
иконку и имя текущего приложения левее, к краю экрана. Подобное размещение
заголовка для развернутых приложений будет более слитным.
2.

В связи с предыдущим пунктом у развернутых окон приложений заголовок
нужно убирать, а меню переносить на верхнюю панель и выводить лишь при
наведении/зажатии alt (Привет Unity!). Там же следовало бы разместить
кнопки управления окном (закрыть, свернуть, восстановить).
3.

Немного поджать правую часть панели, что бы оставалось больше места для
заголовка окна и меню.
4.

Теперь о панели задач. Сейчас ее нет, но она нужна. Тут уж всем не
угодишь. Самое практичное решение -- док слева. Но мне лично не нравится
визуальное исполнение. Я бы сделал панель задач слева внизу, по аналогии с
треем. Только визуально приблизил бы к главной панели. Кстати, туда же
можно убрать Activities и показывать их в виде кнопки.
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Gnome 3 menus

surma — 2012-05-04T16:10:18

Hey gnomecrew,
I want to point out the menus  gnome 3
has.
First: I'm using gnome since 2000.
And I've liked it, until
gnome 3 came and its big mouse controlled
menu, I can't use mouse,
reason: I had a terrible car crash
31. Dets 2005, and due to that I
spent 6 months in coma and that messed up my  hands. So no mouse
usage for me.
I installed gnome 3.4.1 on a virtualbox (and it looked
good), but I'm afraid it has that crappy mouse controlled menu again
when I install
it on a PC, like gnome 3.2.1 had.
Tanel
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hi there

David McWilliams — 2012-05-14T11:19:22

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Hello!!

David McWilliams — 2012-05-13T21:01:43

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Re: nautilus tracker problem

Alessandro Biasi — 2012-05-12T05:07:15

Il giorno ven, 11/05/2012 alle 15.49 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams ha
scritto:

Not really true. If tracker is installed nautilus search function use
it.

hello

David McWilliams — 2012-05-12T03:08:29

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Re: nautilus tracker problem

Adam Tauno Williams — 2012-05-11T19:49:45

On Fri, 2012-05-11 at 21:25 +0200, Alessandro Biasi wrote: 

How are you performing this search?  A simple "search" in Nautilus
doesn't use Tracker AFAIK, it is just a recursive filename search.


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nautilus tracker problem

Alessandro Biasi — 2012-05-11T19:25:40

Hi all,
my nautilus+tracker search is case sensitive. This is a feature, a bug
or my problem?

ps
tracker-needle search is case insensive
Thanks in advance

Re: The new Gnome 3 desktop won't load and run.

Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak — 2012-05-11T12:57:14

Try this:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-November/408334.html

- Mike

Re: The new Gnome 3 desktop won't load and run.

Adam Tauno Williams — 2012-05-11T11:42:11

The 82845G is an i915 like chipset that is a decade old at this point.
It wasn't especially powerful when it was new.  The i915 is the very
very lowest chipset which theoretically should be able to handle GNOME
Shell. *BUT* the i915 to i945 are *hardware* [NOT Xorg/LINUX's FAULT]
limited to a 2048 pixel axis; so if your screen is large/hi-res or you
have a second screen connected the chip will not be accelerated and
GNOME Shell won't run.

Perhaps on boot-up you can try "i915.modeset=0" appended to the GRUB
loader command.  My notes mention something about that but aren't clear.

This thread is confusing because I don't know what "GNOME classic"
means;  is that yet another Ubuntu thing?  In GNOME 3 there is "GNOME
Shell" and "GNOME fallback" (fall-back is still GNOME 3 but without
Shell,  fall-back is intended for running GNOME3 on antique hardware).

But if you are running GNOME Fallback try "gnome-shell --replace &" and
see what happens.  This is attempt to 'force' GNOME Shell on top of your
current GNOME session.
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Re: The new Gnome 3 desktop won't load and run.

Chris Resnik — 2012-05-11T11:34:07

the easiest way to figure out whether your graphic card supports some 3d 
hardware acceleration is to install "torcs" (racing simulator) and run 
it :-)
I test my graphic card almost every day, just to make the 3d hw 
acceleration does not disappear ;-)

On 11.05.2012 12:51, Jayson Rowe wrote:

Re: The new Gnome 3 desktop won't load and run.

Jayson Rowe — 2012-05-11T10:51:35

I didn't realize I didn't include the list back into my original reply,
so I will include it now.

Chris, I'm not very familiar with Intel graphics, so I'm not sure if
that chipset has the required 3D capabilities for Shell or not - perhaps
someone else on the list will know.

One thing I could suggest - if you are really interested in trying out
GNOME-Shell, I believe that in Fedora 17, there has been work made to
allow Shell to run with software rendering, so you could perhaps
download one of the latest test builds (it's still in beta right now)
and try it out from a LiveCD just to see how you like it. 
Here is a link: http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/17.TC4/Live/

Sorry for not being more of a help.
Best wishes,
Jayson

The new Gnome 3 desktop won't load and run.

Mr. Christian W. Strubel — 2012-05-11T02:11:20

Hello everyone,

I recently installed Gnome. I am using Ubuntu Linux 11.10 Oneiric
Ocelot.
The Gnome Classic desktop is working, however the new Gnome desktop
is not being loaded when I choose that option. Instead, it keeps falling
back
to the Gnome Classic desktop. I tried uninstalling Gnome and then
reinstalling it and the same thing continues to happen. Can someone help
me get this to work?

Sincerely,

Re: A confession

Neil Bird — 2012-05-10T15:35:03

Around about 08/05/12 13:37, Adam Tauno Williams typed ...

   I do, but I'm way too lazy/busy to keep it half-way up to date :)  I may 
post about the Myth one when I've done a last bout of tarting up (so I can 
try uploading it to the extensions site).

   The stickynote one is way away from being an extension.  I've so far 
managed to parse the old stickynotes applet XML in JS, and created a load of 
basic GTK windows+edit boxes in the right places with the text & sizes correct.

   But the business of customising the windows to yellow/no-title and then 
adding the prefs. etc. is still to come.  Although I think there may be a 
near one-to-one mapping of the original code, so that may make things easier.

   I *don't* know yet whether the GTK stuff is available under gnome-shell, 
though.  If not, I may have to spawn the GTK side of things and use dbus or 
something to show/hide it.

Re: A confession

Adam Tauno Williams — 2012-05-08T12:37:55

On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 10:39 +0100, Neil Bird wrote: 

That really sounds interesting.  Is the code somewhere?  Do you have a
BLOG?


Welcome to the fold. :)  I was extremely skeptical.  But GNOME has done
right by me for years, and the applications are first-rate, so I decided
I'd give it a try.... and it discovered the same thing as you.

Most notably I couldn't imagine a desktop without a task-bar.  But I've
been taskbar-less for a long time now.  I don't miss it at all;  I
discovered I just don't need one.

<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2011/05/fortnight-with-gnome3.html>


Yea, that is one change I think just doesn't make actual sense.  But
that *is not* on the radar as a global change, so I'm not that
concerned.
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Re: Netspeed applet replacement and other stuff?

Svante Signell — 2012-05-07T14:27:00

...

Why is it so difficult to get used to it then? Gnome3 on my laptop
slows to a halt sometimes, looks like the memory is too low, I _only_
have 1GB, and the CPU is not too fast. With the 3D acceleration
enabled too, I have not disabled that yet, it makes things
worse. Maybe I'll try XFCE and happily forget about gnome3 after
that (but it would be a shame to give up so easily). 

On all computers I have I have not upgraded fully to gnome3, except the
laptop, and now when the fallback solution is gone, what to do??   


Statistics, please!

...


I happen to like the netspeed applet, why am I refused to have one in
gnome3? The gnome system monitor is too heavy weight, I want some
performance indicators (network, memory, cpu, swapping, etc) on the top
or bottom window list, not something I have to switch to to be able to
see anything (I already use xosview for that).
 

See above, can I have it displayed on the window list?

Re: Netspeed applet replacement and other stuff?

Adam Tauno Williams — 2012-05-07T13:28:22

On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 04:32 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: 

All of mine, except the Gentoo people [who only enjoy things that are
broken], were impressed by GNOME when I demo'd it at a LUG.  My
coworkers use it.  Seems pretty popular from here.

If someone really wants a 'retro' Window focused Desktop Environment
then they may very well be happier with XFCE.  That doesn't not make
GNOME3 [a task oriented Desktop Environment] "messy", "forced", or
anything other than different. 

GNOME3 certainly *increased* by user satisfaction.


Ok, but netspeed tells you neither of the above bits of information.  If
the end user believes it does... they are simply mistaken.

The first assumes that the local hop is the constraint for your
particular 'download'.  This is frequently not true.

The later can only be determine by connecting to each node in turn and
running a test.  Actually for a meaningful answer you'd have to test
each node multiple times. Ugh. 


The gnome-system-monitor seems adequate for answering that question.

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Re: Netspeed applet replacement and other stuff?

Kai-Martin Knaak — 2012-05-07T02:32:15

Force feeding the new approach without technical necessity to experienced
users is a great way to drastically decrease user satisfaction. Of about
10 independent linux-only users in my acquaintance, only one is happy with 
gnome3 (after significant modification of the default theme). The rest is
either deliberately not upgrading, or converted their desktop to XFCE, 
LXDE or even KDE. 



Although I don't use the applet, I can still imagine some legitimate 
use cases: 
* Your provider boasted some a particularly fast download. You have a
feeling that he does not quite deliver.
* There are several wlan nodes accessible. You'd like to choose based
 on actual performance.
* An application does not provide the luxery of an explicit download 
 speed display.

Re: Netspeed applet replacement and other stuff?

Adam Tauno Williams — 2012-05-06T15:29:10

On Fri, 2012-05-04 at 22:26 +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: 

It is the wise route of clearly presenting the new and improved
approach.


This is a serious question:
What is the actual point and useful information provided by the netspeed
applett?  I really do not understand.  

I roam between many excellent and numerous crappy networks.  What useful
thing would netspeed tell me that would improve my productivity?  If the
network connection stinks, it stinks, if it is great, it is great.  And
the only time I care is when I'm transferring a large amount of data in
which case the Firefox Downloads tool tells me the actual transfer rate
or Evolution tells me it is still scanning the mailbox.  There is
nothing I can do about the network speed at that moment. And [speaking
as a professional network administrator for 20+ years] the applet DOES
NOT AND CAN NOT tell me the actual speed of "the connection"; it is just
telling you about your throughput on that interface (which is *NOT* a
real measure of network performance);  performance issues could be
application related or you could have bottlenecks, congestion, or
intentional throttling up-stream.


Ah, good to know.  On my openSUSE install I've always had the thumbnail
and the application window's title displayed below it.  I can see how
absence of the title could be confusing.
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Can I prevent "Disable touchpad while typing" from affecting mousemovements?

Philip Durbin — 2012-05-06T02:43:52

Hello!

After using GNOME 2 for 5 years on a workstation I recently switched to 
a laptop *and* to GNOME 3.

I realized I kept expressing frustration with GNOME 3 but really the 
root of my frustration had more to do with the touchpad on my laptop.

I figured out a workaround to my problem last night and posted a 
question and answer combination to a forum.  It's gotten a pretty 
positive response so far, based on upvotes, so I thought I'd copy and 
paste it here.  If I should be sending feedback like this to some other 
mailing list, please let me know!  Thanks for everyone's hard work on GNOME!

Phil

----

Originally posted to 
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/37962/can-i-prevent-disable-touchpad-while-typing-from-affecting-mouse-movements

Question: Can I prevent "Disable touchpad while typing" from affecting 
mouse movements?

When I click my name in the upper right, then click "System Settings", 
then "Mouse and Touchpad", and then "Disable touchpad while typing" it 
affects affects my mouse movements.  I have to wait two seconds before I 
can move the pointer with the touchpad.

I like the "Disable touchpad while typing" feature in general, as it 
prevents me from accidentally raising another window instead of the one 
I'm typing into, but can I have the feature only affect taps of the 
touchpad and not my attempts to move the mouse around?

I'm using GNOME 3.2.1 on Fedora 16

----

My Answer:

On my ThinkPad X220T running GNOME 3 it's pretty easy to be typing along 
and accidentally bump the touchpad, causing some window other than the 
one you're typing into to be raised.

Ostensibly, the solution to this problem is to click your name in the 
upper right, then click "System Settings", then "Mouse and Touchpad", 
and then "Disable touchpad while typing" under as shown the screenshot 
at http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Synaptics_TouchPad_driver_for_X .

This will cause `syndaemon` ( 
http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/syndaemon1.html ) to start up with the 
following options:

     syndaemon -i 2.0 -K -R

Here's what the options mean:

     -i <idle-time>
            How many seconds  to  wait  after  the  last  key  press 
before enabling the touchpad. (default is 2.0s).

     -k     Ignore modifier keys when monitoring keyboard activity.

     -K     Like -k but also ignore Modifier+Key combos.

     -R     Use the XRecord extension for detecting keyboard activity 
instead of polling the keyboard state.

Having syndaemon running with those options eliminates the original 
problem, but it absolutely kills my productivity because the `-t` option 
is **not** enabled:

     -t     Only disable tapping and  scrolling, not mouse movements, 
in response to keyboard activity.

Without `-t`, as soon as I stop typing and try to move the pointer, I 
can't.  I have to wait 2 full seconds before the pointer will move.

Now, back at that "Mouse and Touchpad" interface, I do not see any way 
to configure which options are given to `syndaemon` and from what I can 
tell, the options are hard coded:

http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/mouse/gsd-mouse-manager.c?id=5ee48ce8aa66f6c4fdc4aa2c07bc03bdb83bcb65#n540

The solution is twofold.  I can't abide `syndaemon` with its default 
options, so I leave "Disable touchpad while typing" unchecked.  Then, to 
get `syndaemon` to start with the options I want, I run 
`gnome-session-properties` to open the "Startup Applications 
Preferences" dialog.  From there, I click Add, fill in a name (I called 
mine "0pdurbin-disable-touchpad-while-typing" so it would appear at the 
top), and a command, which for me is the following:

     syndaemon -i 1.0 -K -R -t

Again, the major change is the addition of `-t` so `syndaemon` doesn't 
paralyze my pointer, but while I was in there I reduced the idle time to 
one second.

I hope this helps someone because this was driving me crazy.

To avoid using a GUI tool like `gnome-session-properties` it looks like 
you could set up a file like this, which was created in my case:

     [pdurbin< at >tabby ~]$ cat ~/.config/autostart/syndaemon.desktop

     [Desktop Entry]
     Type=Application
     Exec=syndaemon -i 1.0 -K -R -t
     Hidden=false
     X-GNOME-Autostart-enabled=true
     Name[en_US]=0pdurbin-disable-touchpad-while-typing
     Name=0pdurbin-disable-touchpad-while-typing
     Comment[en_US]=
     Comment=
     [pdurbin< at >tabby ~]$

Incidentally, this seems to be a pretty complete list of applications 
that are autostarted, the ones listed in `gnome-session-properties`: 
`find /etc/xdg/autostart /usr/share/autostart /usr/share/gdm/autostart/ 
/usr/share/gnome/autostart`

Re: Deeper problem, Gnumeric comes up without menu bars

Shaun McCance — 2012-05-05T23:13:27

Hi Mark,

This probably has something to do with the global menu bar on Ubuntu.
But Ubuntu uses Unity, not GNOME, so you should ask on a mailing list
or forum specific to Ubuntu.

As for questions about Gnumeric, try gnumeric-list:

http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnumeric-list

--
Shaun