gmane.comp.gnome.foundation.general

Re: Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

Karen Sandler — 2012-05-23T21:46:32

Yes, thank you, Brian - it's been a pleasure working with you :)

And thanks to Germán (who's served multiple terms and as treasurer 
previously too), Stormy and Ryan who have also decided to step down 
after this term. We really appreciate your hard work!!

karen

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Re: Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

Federico Mena Quintero — 2012-05-23T19:52:47


Thanks for all the work you put into your position, Brian :)

  Federico

Re: Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

Alberto Ruiz — 2012-05-23T06:10:16

I want to thank him as well, your dedication is and will always be
appreciated.

2012/5/23 Behdad Esfahbod <behdad< at >behdad.org>

Re: Questions for the board election candidates

Joanmarie Diggs — 2012-05-23T05:38:09

Hi Robert.

On 05/22/2012 03:58 AM, Robert Nordan wrote:


"Open Source" AND "Free Software". :)

With respect to my own "pragmatic idealism":

  * I value freedom and tend to say "Free Software". BUT I have no
    philosophical problems with those who say or prefer "Open Source."
    None whatsoever.

  * If you think I'm turning off my Android's GPS because getting lost
    is preferable to using a non-free driver, think again. ;) BUT I did
    donate money (the cost of a new unlocked QWERTY phone) to the
    Replicant Project because I would much prefer to not get lost AND
    to not use non-free software. As soon there is a fully free Android
    with GPS and a QWERTY keyboard I will buy it. I hope that they
    accomplish this soon.

  * I find it disturbing and unfortunate that with the very many things
    these two groups have in common, the focus seems to always come
    back to the few differences which exist. And I wonder if that is in
    the best interest of either group. I myself do not think it is.

Thus as a pragmatist I will do everything I can to advance Free, Libre,
Open Source software. I will not engage in debates about "Open Source"
versus "Free Software," however, because I feel doing so is to the
detriment of our shared goal of eliminating proprietary software. As an
idealist, I'm fully convinced we can achieve our shared goal -- if and
only if we work together.


I personally do not have serious problems with GNOME's git system or
associated infrastructure, though admittedly I am a tad antiquated
myself. ;) Having said that, I also do not have serious objections to an
overhaul -- with one possible exception: Any time my ears hear the word
"overhaul," my brain receives "potentially significant disruption."

GNOME 3 is still sufficiently young that I think all of us -- designers,
developers, document writers, marketers, translators, ... -- need to
keep our focus on it and not lose momentum. Thus if it were up to the
Board to decide upon this issue, my supporting it would be based
primarily on two things: overall community support of it and how
smooth/seamless the transition would be. If everyone wants it and it can
JustHappen(tm) without us skipping a beat, it's got my vote. Otherwise,
let's wait a couple of cycles.


(I hope you don't mind my combining your last two questions, but from my
perspective they're just different flavors of the same general issue.)

From a *purely philosophical* standpoint, I don't think these schisms or
forks are necessarily a bad thing.

What's been happening lately is a demonstration of the beauties and
strengths of FLOSS: If you can do it better, if you can meet an unmet
need, if you disagree with the direction a project is taking, then get
the code and do it the way you think it should be done. Form a community
around your effort. Learn, create, and share.

If you're right and you indeed did it better, or met an unmet need, or
took a direction that needed to be taken, what you created makes the
world a better place. And even if you weren't right, you gained
knowledge and experience and skills in the process which you can apply
to other FLOSS software projects. And that, too, makes the world a
better place.

Being more practical and less pollyannaish: If you consider everything
we do in GNOME, it's a huge, huge amount of work. I think the odds of
any fork or "schism" becoming truly independent/separate are pretty
slim. So they still need GNOME. And I would argue that we need them (see
"huge, huge amount of work" above).

As for how to handle it.... Depends what "it" is. ;)

With respect to Canonical/Ubuntu: I'd love to have some discussion with
them around where they are investing (losing?) time with respect to
GNOME modules. Example: At one point, whilst trying to troubleshoot a
couple of downstream-only Orca bugs, I learned that their Gtk+ was
"heavily patched"; their... I *think* it was pygobject... was
essentially version Y, but claimed to be version X because they patched
it into almost-Yness rather than just pulling our version Y; they had
gnome-foo version 3.2.x, but gnome-bar version 3.0.x, but would ship
gnome-baz version 3.4. Why are they doing this?? And that is not a
rhetorical question; I genuinely would like to know. But more
importantly, if there are things we can be doing upstream to prevent or
reduce this extreme downstream smorgasbording, I think we should do so:

1. Extreme smorgasbording can lead to breakage. Breakage makes FLOSS
   software look less desirable. If the user knows that the module in
   question is a GNOME module, that makes GNOME look less desirable.

2. Extreme smorgasbording surely takes time. Wouldn't it be easier to
   just pull from upstream? Hopefully they would agree that it would
   be. In which case, if we could help them save time downstream,
   perhaps they would see fit to apply that saved time contributing
   upstream. Doing so would benefit them and also benefit us.

3. We need to bridge the schism/chasm, both real and perceived. It
   doesn't benefit anyone. As I stated in response to question 1, let's
   find opportunities to work together because we have far more
   similarities than differences.

With respect to those who feel the GNOME 3 experience is fine, but not
for them due to X, Y, or Z: Let's ensure they can have the GNOME 3
experience that they would like to have because in many cases what they
want is not all that far off from what we currently provide. The way to
achieve this goal seems to be through extensions -- which are already
coming along quite nicely. If extensions currently cannot support X, Y,
or Z, let's see if there's some way to solve that. We want people to
embrace GNOME, feel a part of it, and see it as the solution that best
suits their needs.

With respect to those who are genuinely angry about GNOME 3....
Yikes.... In the year since GNOME 3.0 was released I have witnessed
cases where I thought we could have been a tad more open to input, and I
have also witnessed cases where no matter what we did or said, we'd be
the devil incarnate. :( Should we ignore them? Of course not. But if
they are not yet ready to work with us, I don't think we should go out
of our way to pursue them (see "huge, huge amount of work" above). I
hope that over time, through our collaboration with other entities and
individuals, anger will subside and constructive dialogs will occur.

I hope I've answered all your questions. If not, please let me know.

Take care.
--joanie

Re: Questions for the board election candidates

Richard Stallman — 2012-05-23T02:56:12

How does each candidate propose to make use of GNOME and its
communication to build support in the user community for free software
and the freedom it provides?


The free software movement practices pragmatic idealism.  Our ideal is
freedom for those who use software.  We say that all programs should
be free, and our practical goal is to bring that about.

The open source camp is pragmatic too, but mostly not idealistic.  The
promoters of open source generally don't aim to make all programs open
source.  They recommend a certain development methodology, presenting
it as a practical issue and not as an ethical requisite.

You could imagine someone saying "ethically, all code should be open
source", but that's not the views of the open source camp.

The idea of the GNU system follows from the free software movement's
ideals.  If you want to escape from nonfree software, pragmatically
you need a free system to escape to.  It has to be 100% free software
in order to do the job; 99% free software doesn't get you all the way
out.

That's why we launched GNOME.  In 1998, KDE was free software, but in
order to use it, one had to use nonfree Qt as well.  Thus, KDE was
leading to a system that couldn't be 100% free software.  We had to do
something about that, and what we did is GNOME.

(Nowadays Qt is free software, so KDE doesn't have this problem any
more.  Part of why Qt is free software is that GNOME put pressure on
the developers to make it free.)

GNOME's usefulness as a software package is independent of how we talk
about it.  However, the use of GNOME provides an opportunity to
educate the users about this issue, in philosophical and political
terms -- to teach them the idealism of the free software movement.

Thus, my question: how does each candidate propose to make use of
GNOME and its communication to build support in the user community for
free software and the freedom it provides?

--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call

Re: Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

Behdad Esfahbod — 2012-05-23T01:56:57

I want to second that.  Having been on the board for a few terms with Brian, I
too fully appreciate all the leadership he has shown over the years lifting
where no one else wanted to.

behdad

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Re: Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

Luis Villa — 2012-05-23T01:53:29

Brian-
Thanks for your selfless service the past few years. Your dedication,
including to some of the board's most thankless tasks, has been
admirable and will be very difficult for the board to replace.

Luis

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Brian Cameron <brian.cameron< at >oracle.com> wrote:

Re: Boston Summit?

Karen Sandler — 2012-05-22T21:14:59

I don't see any further discussion from this on the 
Boston/Montreal/Toronto Summit! Should we set up a (somewhat informal) 
bid process? I'm reminded of this, as I just got the confirmation on the 
space in Boston for Columbus Day weekend (we don't have to pay any fees, 
thanks to MIT and to Walter Bender). If there's a push to have this 
elsewhere, we should at least free up the space so others can use it.

karen

Re: Questions for the board election candidates

Shaun McCance — 2012-05-22T20:04:09

I agree with Dave's concerns over how this question is worded. But
people do contribute for different reasons, some for moral reasons,
others because they think it's just a better way to produce quality
software. I think it's fair to ask candidates their motivations.

I believe free software makes the world a better place, not just by
making better software, but by empowering people to tinker and learn
and build off the ideas of others. I believe people ought to be in
control of the devices that are increasingly integral to the way we
live. I view software as an applied science, and science works best
when we share knowledge and ideas.

That said, I often use the term "open source". I pick my battles.


We got Git in the first place because some hackers decided to set
things up and do a trial conversion. It wasn't the board. It was
people getting stuff done. If people want a Gitorious instance,
it should happen the same way. But, if the board can provide any
resources to help that, I'd vote in favor.


There is a schism between GNOME and Ubuntu. The GNOME community,
by and large, wants to create a finished product. Ubuntu wants to
do the same thing, and they want to do it differently. They are
two different products made by two increasingly different groups
of people.

We do share technology, and I think we should work together as
much as possible on that technology. I fully support things like
cross-project summits and hackfests. I don't have a problem with
multiple projects existing, though we ought to collaborate where
possible. But at the end of the day, the GNOME Foundations exists
to support GNOME, so that has to be our first priority.


It's clear there are people who want to continue having something
like GNOME 2. And it's clear there are people who are willing to
step up and do the work. That's great. I fully support it. And I
think we should work with them, provided they want to work with
us and provided we have the resources. Honestly, I wouldn't mind
at all continuing to have a "GNOME 2" product line, as long as
there are people willing to make it happen.

--
Shaun

Re: Questions for the board election candidates

Robert Nordan — 2012-05-22T08:56:21

I'm so sorry, I was not intending to imply that one was better than the
other or that they are diametrically opposed. Let me rephrase the
question: "Do you prefer the Open Source Initiative approach to
pragmatic idealism or the Free Software Foundation approach to pragmatic
idealism?"

Re: Questions for the board election candidates

Dave Neary — 2012-05-22T08:35:07

Hi,

On 05/22/2012 09:58 AM, Robert Nordan wrote:

Please don't equate Open Source and "pragmatism", and Free Software and 
"idealism". This suggests that Free Software is not also pragmatic, or 
that Open Source developers are not idealists. This is a pet hate of 
mine, and frames anyone who calls themselves a Free software developer 
as not living in the real world. Free Software is all about pragmatic 
idealism - using the system against itself to give users rights we feel 
they should have as software authors.

And, in fact, Open Source is also about pragmatic idealism - using a 
different brand for the same thing to avoid an unfortunate ambiguity 
doesn't change the fact that Open Source developers also care about 
giving users rights they would not otherwise have.

Thanks,
Dave.

Re: live.gnome.org Maintenance

Olav Vitters — 2012-05-22T08:00:17

Awesome!

It is still weird that it had so much problems just by forcing SSL /
https on. Guessing outgoing bandwidth problem, let's see.

FYI, I plan to break another site (force SSL) so you can fix it again :P

Questions for the board election candidates

Robert Nordan — 2012-05-22T07:58:00

Hi all, I have a few questions for the candidates in the upcoming
election to the board. They are obviously shaped by my interests, but I
believe that other Foundation members may be interested in the answers
as well.

1) "Open Source" or "Free Software"?

This is about personal philosophy: Do you prefer the pragmatism of the
Open Source Initiative or the political idealism of the Free Software
Foundation? (Some of the candidates have already flagged a stance on
this.)

2) Overhaul of GNOME's git infrastructure

I personally believe that the way the GNOME git system is set up is a
bit antiquated and doesn't use git to its full potential. It's fine for
developers with commit access, but  contributors without have to create
individual patches and attach them to bug trackers or convince the
maintainers to look up their personal branch hosted somewhere else and
merge in. In a time when GitHub is setting the standard for ease of use
when it comes to forking, merging and development, GNOME is lagging
behind.

I have heard chatter among GNOME people about setting up a GNOME
instance of Gitorious to gain that kind of functionality, but nothing
has really happened. Do any of the candidates want to make a juicy
campaign promise on this issue?

3) GNOME and Ubuntu

In the recent years there has been a public perception of a schism
between GNOME and Ubuntu resulting in double work and wasted resources
on both sides. Do you think that perception is unfounded or not, and how
do you plan to handle it?

4) Stance on GNOME forks

Similarly, GNOME 3 has met with some opposing developments like Cinnamon
and MATE. It is of course the right of dissatisfied users to do what
they want and fork if they like, but should GNOME ignore them or try to
find ways to work together with them?

[gnome.org #12757] AutoReply: GNOME Foundation Board candidacy:Tobias Mueller

Elections mails via RT — 2012-05-20T15:03:46

Your message about "GNOME Foundation Board candidacy: Tobias Mueller" has been received and assigned a ticket ID [ gnome.org #12757].

There is no need to reply to this message right now, but if you have anything to add to the issue please reply to this message.

You will receive another message once your issue has been solved, or if we need more information from you.

For accounts and membership tickets you can always see the current status of your ticket by visiting:
http://www.gnome.org/rt3-stats/
Note: 'Waiting for' is a best effort guess.

Yours,
GNOME.org Sysadmin Team
elections< at >gnome.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Tobias Mueller
EMail: tobiasmue< at >gnome.org
Affiliation: None
Summary:
I am a Free Software enthusiast and GNOME activist for about 5 years
now. I mainly worked in the Bugsquad and the Membership Committee.
Now, I want to do something new and help making GNOME a successful Free
Software project.
I have experience with working with people, i.e. by organising events
like a GNOME party, various booths at conferences or by hosting a
(mid-size) conference at our university.
I want to improve the Bylaws and the visibility of Teams within GNOME.

Dear Foundation,

I am sticking around GNOME for about 5 years now and while I enjoy being
in the community I do want to progress within GNOME and take new
responsibilities.

For the last years, I was active in the Bugsquad, Membership and
Elections Committee as well as helping GNOME to be represented at
various events like FOSDEM. I did enjoy my work and I still do. However,
I want to take up on something new and challenge myself with new duties.

I am that type of person that corrects others when they say "open
source" when they really mean Free Software. I very much like the idea
of Free Software and I do believe that not having the freedoms
guaranteed is bad. I also strongly believe that the freedoms GNOME
provides are a great asset that we can be very proud of.

While I don't have a concrete agenda, I do have issues that I want to
see resolved. Most urgently, I see that the Bylaws need improvement.
There are a lot of minor changes, i.e. typos and wrong references, to be
made as well as big ones, i.e. how the election process is supposed to
work. I sent comments to two boards starting over a year ago and I want
to help resolving issues around our fundamental rules.

Another field which I intend to work on are Teams within GNOME. I very
much like the decentralized approach we take and I think we can make
improvements on the visibility of the teams and their results, i.e. by
making it more rewarding for both, the writers and the consumers, of the
Quarterly Reports.

Admittedly, I don't believe that a position in the board is really
necessary to achieve these things. But it certainly is helpful.

The reason why I sent my proposal rather late is, that I was (and
actually still am) busy, besides my real life, preparing things for
LinuxTag where we will have a GNOME booth. This, and the fact that I'll
be attending GNOME.Asia, is the reason why I won't be available with all
my brain power to answer questions on this list.

Thanks,
Tobi

[gnome.org #12753] AutoReply: GNOME Foundation Board candidacy:Emmanuele Bassi

Elections mails via RT — 2012-05-19T09:15:39

Your message about "GNOME Foundation Board candidacy: Emmanuele Bassi" has been received and assigned a ticket ID [ gnome.org #12753].

There is no need to reply to this message right now, but if you have anything to add to the issue please reply to this message.

You will receive another message once your issue has been solved, or if we need more information from you.

For accounts and membership tickets you can always see the current status of your ticket by visiting:
  http://www.gnome.org/rt3-stats/
Note: 'Waiting for' is a best effort guess.

Yours,
 GNOME.org Sysadmin Team
 elections< at >gnome.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Emmanuele Bassi
email: ebassi< at >gmail.com
Affiliation: Intel Corporation

I have contributed to GNOME for the past 10 years as a developer and
maintainer; I served on the GUADEC papers committee multiple times, as
well as a Director of the Foundation's Board for the past year in the
role of Secretary.

I plan to continue serving as Secretary, with the hope of improving the
review and publication of the Board Meetings minutes; I also plan to
improve my efforts with Friends of GNOME. Finally, I intend to continue
pestering people into creating a viable roadmap as well as getting
involved in the effort of making GNOME a best of breed and powerful
offering for powering devices ranging from the Desktop/clamshell to
handhelds and tablets.

ciao,
 Emmanuele.

live.gnome.org Maintenance

Andrea Veri — 2012-05-18T17:58:44

Hi,

tomorrow morning (from 10 AM, GMT +2) there will be a downtime of 
live.gnome.org, we're switching the wiki over a new machine since 
we're experiencing high loads and problems while loading pages.

I'll follow up this mail with more details as soon as the migration 
will be completely done.

If you have any question, please join #sysadmin on GIMPNET.

cheers,

Andrea
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Re: Announcing Board of Directors Elections 2012

Tobias Mueller — 2012-05-16T14:10:17

Hello :)

Just a quick reminder that as per http://vote.gnome.org/2012/rules.html
the last day to announce candidacies and submit summary statements is
this Sunday, the 2012-05-20.

Cheers,
  Tobi

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Travel assistance applications to attend GNOME.Asia 2012

Bharath Acharya — 2012-05-16T05:25:53

Hello All,

The GNOME Foundation provides travel sponsorships to individuals who want
to attend GNOME.Asia 2012 and need financial assistance.

GNOME.Asia, 2012 is being held in City University of Hong Kong (
http://2012.gnome.asia/location/), from Friday 8th June, until Sunday 10th
June.

The instructions are detailed at http://live.gnome.org/Travel
Please read them carefully.

How to apply for sponsorship
(Things to keep in mind during the process)

   - Be patient, we are volunteers
   - If it's taking too long and you see prices could significantly raise
   -or something similar- please ping a member of the committee.
   - DO NOT BUY ANYTHING UNTIL YOU GET A VERY CLEAR CONFIRMATION, applying
   does not mean you are approved, and silence does not mean approval.
   - Try to get the best fares for tickets and lodging, look at various
   airlines and routes and try to avoid agencies since they usually charge 10%
   or 20% extra in every ticket. (Sites like Kayak can help find reasonable
   fares.)
   - Please find a roommate to save on lodging costs where possible.
   - Ask for only what you need. If you can afford to pay for some of your
   ticket or lodging, we would really appreciate it as that means we can help
   more people.
   - Be responsible, the money you save is the money we will use to fund
   someone else or even yourself again.


The process

   - First, make sure the conference or event is relevant for GNOME. If
   it's not an announced one like GNOME.Asia or a Hackfest, please explain us
   why would you like to go and what are the benefits you think we would all
   get from your presence there (promotion, contacts, etc)
   - Now, fill the application form form with the relevant information. (
   https://live.gnome.org/Travel?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=gnome_travel_subsidy.odt
   )
   - Send the filled form to travel-committee< at >gnome.org, this is a private
   list that will be visible only to the Travel Committee members and possibly
   GNOME's Board of Directors
   - Wait patiently to get questions or suggestions about your request
   - Expect a confirmation of your approval soon, or if it's taking too
   long, feel free to ask in IRC to any member of the committee
   - Now that you GOT COMPLETE CONFIRMATION buy your tickets and/or make
   your reservation
   - After the event, you have 2 weeks to mail us the appropriate receipts
   for tickets, lodging, etc; if they are not in English or the receipt has a
   lot of information, please clearly mark the total and the purpose.
   - Your reimbursement will be ready no more than 4 weeks after the
   receipts deadline


You can find us in the #travel channel at irc.gnome.org

Regards,
Bharath
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Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

Brian Cameron — 2012-05-15T01:15:19

Friends in the GNOME community:

After serving 4 terms on The GNOME Foundation board of directors, I will
be stepping down at the end of this term.

I would like to thank everyone in the community who has supported me
and allowed me to represent them on this board.  It has been a
profoundly rewarding and truly inspirational experience to help The
GNOME Foundation and GNOME community to grow.

The years that I have served on the board have been exciting and
productive times.  I am proud to have served as president and secretary;
to have been involved with the development, release and celebration
surrounding the GNOME 3 release; and to have helped with the
development of successful GNOME programs like the Outreach Program for
Women.  In my time on the board, I have witnessed so much growth within
the community.  Since then, the GNOME Foundation has hired two executive
directors, started having successful annual summits in Asia, and has
more than doubled the number of hackfests held each year.  Just to
mention a few highlights.

My stepping down should not be viewed as me becoming less involved
with GNOME.  I plan to continue working on GNOME for Oracle and expect
that I will continue helping the GNOME Foundation and community in
many ways.  I mostly feel that it is just time for me to step down to
reclaim some of my life back.  4.5 years (including one 18-month term
in 2008-2009) is a long time to serve on The GNOME Foundation board of
directors.  I believe that only Jonathan Blandford served as a board
member for a longer period of time (5 years).

With the two most senior board members (Germán and myself) both
stepping down at the end of this term, it is especially important for
passionate people to serve the community.  So I again encourage people
who are considering to run for the board to step forward.  It is a great
way to increase one's involvement with GNOME and free software and to
help make sure that GNOME continues to rock.

Brian

Re: Announcing Board of Directors Elections 2012

Brian Cameron — 2012-05-08T23:30:16

Reminder that the list of candidates for the board of directors opened
yesterday on May 7th.  If you are interested in running for the board
of directors, then I very much encourage you to do so.  It is a great
way to deepen ones involvement with GNOME and free software communities.

If you would like to see an example of how to announce your candidacy,
I will share a link to the one I wrote last year:

 
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-announce/2011-May/msg00010.html

What does it take to be a good board member?  In my experience,
effective board members:

- Have the time to dedicate to The GNOME Foundation and community.  For
   example, I have found that I dedicate roughly 6-10 hours a week on
   GNOME Foundation activities.
- Have a productive volunteer ethic, are involved with GNOME teams,
   participate in IRC meetings, etc.
- Are effective and diplomatic communicators.  The sort of people you
   often find helping to moderate difficult community discussions or
   helping to organize GNOME projects and committees.
- Have experience working on the sorts of projects that The GNOME
   Foundation is involved with.  For example, the GNOME Foundation
   invests a lot of energy organizing events, so having event planning
   experience can be a big help.  Other examples would include experience
   with fund raising (Friends of GNOME), working with GNOME User's
   Groups, GNOME merchandise, etc.

Brian


On 04/17/12 05:14 PM, Brian Cameron wrote:

Re: Official announcement and invitation to GNOME.Asia Summit 2012

Andre Klapper — 2012-05-07T10:24:40

Hi,

On Thu, 2012-04-05 at 04:04 +0800, Max wrote:

http://2012.gnome.asia/rfp/ mentions "Notification of Acceptance: April
27th, 2012." for paper submissions. 
Has this happened already, or did I miss some mail?

andre