gmane.comp.gnome.accessibility.devel

ANNOUNCE: AT-SPI 2.5.1 released

Mike Gorse — 2012-04-30T21:39:43

AT-SPI 2.5.1 is now available for download at:

http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-core/2.5/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-atk/2.5/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/pyatspi/2.5/

What is AT-SPI2
===============

AT-SPI2 is a D-Bus based accessibility framework. It defines a D-Bus
protocol for providing and accessing application accessibility
information. The project includes a library for bridging the D-Bus
protocol to the ATK API, allowing Gtk based applications to be made
accessible. It also contains a client (AT) side library in C and a wrapper
for Python.


What's changed in AT-SPI 2.5.1

* [core/pyatspi] Add atspi_set_timeout.

* [core] By default, disable method call timeouts until an application has
been on the bus for 15 seconds (work-around for applications with potentially
long start-up times). This behavior can be changed with a call to
atspi_set_timeout.

* [core] Fix GError sent when receiving a reply of the wrong type

* [core] Fix typo in atspi_document_get_attribute_value

* [core] Fix for bug 675004 - object:state-changed:defunct events are emitted
as object:state-change:defunct

* [atk] Updated Norwegian Nynorsk translation

* [pyatspi] Some clean-ups for Python 3.

Where can I get more information about AT-SPI2
==============================================

The project wiki is available at:

http://www.a11y.org/d-bus



How can I contribute to AT-SPI2?
================================

We need help testing with Gnome accessibility technologies, improving
performance, and generally tying up loose ends.  The above-referenced page
contains a list of known issues that should be fixed.

IRC   : #a11y on Gimpnet
E-Mail: accessibility-atspi< at >lists.linux-foundation.org

Development repositories can be found at:

git://git.gnome.org/pyatspi2
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-core
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-atk

Re: About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Trevor Saunders — 2012-04-30T14:52:03

ok


true, someone should test this, but something breaking when nothing
changes seems somewhat unlikely.

Trev
_______________________________________________
gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
gnome-accessibility-devel< at >gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel

Re: About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Piñeiro — 2012-04-30T13:47:42

"atk needs to include that code in itself" is a better phrasing of my
poorly written "add that call on ATK". Anyway, you listed some of the
options we were talking about on the hackfest:

 * link to a new library (old atk-adaptor plugin becames this new library)
 * atk include that code in itself.
 * <write here your alternative>

And as I said, deciding and  implementing the best one is still pending.


This was the idea, and one of the reasons Benjamin Otter (IRC:Company)
was interested in this approach. That would also allow to have more
control over it. With a plugin you just load it, and start to work. A
library approach could allow to add some extra methods.


The issue here is "I think". We need to be sure that we don't break things.

Finally, this was what I proposed on desktop-devel-list:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-April/msg00107.html

BR

Re: About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Trevor Saunders — 2012-04-29T05:14:12

I'm not sure I follow this idea of adding calls in atk.  If atk-bridge
stops being a gtk plugin that is dynamically loaded then either people
need to link directly to some new library, libatk needs to link to that
library, or atk needs to include that code in itself.  sI tend to think
the last of these options is the best since tighter integration between
atk and the adaptor should allow a bunch of abstractions to go away.


Well, can't distributions just continue to ship the current
libatk-adaptor for them, and assuming we don't change the dbus protocol
I think everything should just keep working.

We also need to consider how this set up would work with non gtk apps,
and apps that mostly aren't gtk but embed some gtk widgets.


I'd tend to think this is the right path to minimize risk in the case too
much stuff doesn't work or performance suffers.

Trev
_______________________________________________
gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
gnome-accessibility-devel< at >gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel

Re: About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Peter Korn — 2012-04-20T17:05:32

API,

Oops!  Sorry, no difference.  I just missed the compromise option in 
your text.


Peter


On 4/20/2012 9:53 AM, Piñeiro wrote:

Re: About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Piñeiro — 2012-04-20T16:53:19

Hi Peter,

Sorry, but I don't understand this. What it is the difference between
that "interim step" that you propose and the second option that I
proposed and I called "compromised option". Quoting myself:

"Finally, comment that probably there is a compromise option, that is:
<skip>
* For this cycle just propose to change the default value of
accessibility-toolkit. In that case we would still have more runtime
testing, and it would be easy to go back if things are failing."

BR

Re: About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Peter Korn — 2012-04-20T16:41:19

API,

Accessibility by default has long been a desire.  What about an interim, 
"prove it" step?  Have it turned on by default for the various 3.5 
builds, with the understanding that it will revert to being off if 
certain metrics aren't met.  BUT... with the plan that they will be met?


Peter

On 4/20/2012 9:15 AM, Piñeiro wrote:

About proposing "accessibility on by default" as feature

Piñeiro — 2012-04-20T16:15:13

Hi,

some context: on last ATK/AT-SPI2 accessibility hackfest [1] one of the
ideas that came again to the table was proposing to set accessibility
support on by default. That work would include having the accessibility
nits running all the time, without a accessibility-toolkit setting
switch, and also stop to having the accessibility code loaded as
plugins. At this moment the only remaining plugin is the atk-bridge, so
the idea is having the same functionality as a library call. Something
like a atk_bridge_init (..) call (equivalent to gtk_init).

On our last accessibility meeting we were talking about proposing this
as a new 3.6 feature, as seems a good way to start the discussion with
the community. From that meeting:
Apr 19 16:10:13 <API>    #action Piñeiro after some researching, will
bring the having accessibility by default 3.6 to the accessibility list
Apr 19 16:10:32 <API>    #action Piñeiro after some debate we could
propose it as feature

So after that research I'm here to talk about this (output of that
research at the appendix of this mail).

So lets see the current situation:
 * Accessibility performance and stability has been improving during the
last two releases.
 * GNOME-Shell (for user POV, GNOME) accessibility has improved with the
last release.
 * But there are still several core applications (ie: evolution) without
a proper accessibility support (also crash-prone)
 * Now it is possible to enable accessibility on runtime, without
requiring the uncomfortable logout
 * Most of the bus traffic is not sent unless one AT is listening

As we mentioned on the meeting, having the accessibility running would
provide more testing on the accessibility framework, both on runtime and
on compiling time (as at-spi2-[core/atk] will became a compiling
dependency).

The problems I see are:
  a) About having accessibility enabled all the time: right now
activating the accessibility on runtime works, so some people would be
against adding an inherent risk
  b) About stop to using plugins: some people will not like adding a new
dependency to their projects (this could be irrelevant if the final
solution is add that call on ATK, as randomly suggested on the hackfest)
  c) Although we agree that we want to stop to load the bridge as a
plugin, we are still not sure about how and where implement it.
  d) We didn't debated how all this changes would affect GTK2 apps.
Because the fact is that there are apps still not ported.
  e) My inner pessimist thinks that getting to a conclusion, implement
it, integrate it and test it are too much, and it would be difficult to
have all ready for 3.6

Finally, comment that probably there is a compromise option, that is:
 * Keep working on c), as seems the way to go. Probably with unstable
branches of atk, at-spi, gtk and clutter
 * For this cycle just propose to change the default value of
accessibility-toolkit. In that case we would still have more runtime
testing, and it would be easy to go back if things are failing. If
things are not failing, it would be a good way to minimize a) if we
propose to remove the gsetting switch.

With that compromised option, for this cycle we would just propose to
change the default value of accessibility-toolkit, while working on the
other stuff.

So, ideas, thoughts?

***

Appendix (somewhat offtopic or this mail main topic)
That research that I wanted to do was check why the following was working:
 1. accessibility-toolkit is disabled
 2. gnome-shell is running
 3. Via Universal-Settings you activate "Screen reader", this sets
accessibility-toolkit as enabled
 4. Orca interacts properly with gnome-shell

The "classical GNOME accessibility" wisdom tell us that 4 is not
possible, and you need a logout. Also take into account that gnome-shell
has a custom code that loads that module if that gsetting is enabled.
With GTK3 this was not required anymore thanks to the gsettings-daemon
magic, and the at-spi2-atk.desktop file, that informs that when
accessibility-toolkit became enabled, it should load the bridge.

So, how gnome-shell does that? Well ... thanks to gsettings-daemon, as
gnome-shell also calls gtk_init, so it is also a GTK app. In fact, if
you remove that custom loading-code, in some situations it is still
working (note "some situations", so we can't remove that code yet). As
you can guess, those "some situations" are exactly the situations we
were expecting this all to be failing. In the same way, that
"NO-AT-BRIDGE" "NO-GAIL" code is still required to ensure that AtkUtil
implementation of GTK is not loaded. Yes, all this seems tricky and
fragile, and for sure requires some cleaning, but for now it is working.

BR

[1]
http://blogs.igalia.com/apinheiro/2012/01/24/atkat-spi2-hackfest-2012-days-2345/

Re: at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Mike Gorse — 2012-04-20T04:10:50


Also, have you built pygobject 2? If so, you have it built with 
introspection disabled, right? If not, then it will conflict with the 
introspection support in pygobject 3.

Re: at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Mike Gorse — 2012-04-19T21:58:33


Sorry for not replying sooner--a while ago I tried to set up mago, ran 
into trouble, and then must have started working on something else and 
forgot about your crash.

When I run that test, I get a lot of output--I've placed the log at 
http://mgorse.freeshell.org/gcalctool.txt for now. I don't think I'm 
getting a crash, although it's possible that I am and there's a message 
about it buried somewhere in the 700 odd lines of output.

What versions of gobject-introspection and libffi are you using?

I'm wondering if it's the same issue as bug 673569 / if a dependency needs 
to be upped somewhere (I can't reproduce that crash, either, and in both 
cases it appears to be crashing in a callback created by pygobject, or at 
least I'm guessing that that is the case for the accerciser crash as well, 
since I can't step into the function being called using gdb). I'm using 
python 2.7.1, libffi 4.6.2, pygobject 3.0.4, and gobject-introspection 
1.31.10, for what it's worth.

-Mike

Re: at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Patrick Welche — 2012-04-18T14:04:20

...

I just tried again after upgrading to at-spi2-core 2.4.1 and accerciser 3.4.1,
but no change (not too surprising given the changelogs...)

Is there any more information I could provide? (I have a repeatable test,
nice core dump etc.)

Cheers,

Patrick

ANNOUNCE: at-spi2-core 2.4.1 released

Mike Gorse — 2012-04-16T19:37:44

At-spi2-core 2.4.1 is now available for download at:

http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-core/2.4/

What is AT-SPI2
===============

AT-SPI2 is a D-Bus based accessibility framework. It defines a D-Bus
protocol for providing and accessing application accessibility
information. The project includes a library for bridging the D-Bus
protocol to the ATK API, allowing Gtk based applications to be made
accessible. It also contains a client (AT) side library in C and a wrapper
for Python.


What's changed in AT-SPI 2.4.0

* Fix a GError set when a method call returns a reply of the wrong type.

* Do not time out method calls for the first 15 seconds that an
   application is on the bus (work-around for Orca setting an application's
   script as "default" after a timeout on a slow-starting application).


Where can I get more information about AT-SPI2
==============================================

The project wiki is available at:

http://www.a11y.org/d-bus



How can I contribute to AT-SPI2?
================================

We need help testing with Gnome accessibility technologies, improving
performance, and generally tying up loose ends.  The above-referenced page
contains a list of known issues that should be fixed.

IRC   : #a11y on Gimpnet
E-Mail: accessibility-atspi< at >lists.linux-foundation.org

Development repositories can be found at:

git://git.gnome.org/pyatspi2
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-core
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-atk

Re: at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Patrick Welche — 2012-04-06T11:52:47

Thanks for the responses Nagappan and Mike.

Being one of those old traditional coders, I am not using a "distro"
(hence my list of versions from tar files).

I'm using pygobject 3.0.4, python 2.6. AFAICT I can't attempt to use a
newer one because I only have glib 2.30.3, and upgrading glib is non-trivial.

Can you think of anything special about the "object:children-changed:add"
event? Or anywhere in the mound of dependencies which uses semaphores?
(Those sem_wait messages for ldtp surprise me...)

Cheers,

Patrick

Re: at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Mike Gorse — 2012-04-05T22:31:31

Hi Patrick,

What distro are you running, and what version of pygobject-3 are you 
using? I'll try to reproduce if I can find all of the dependencies and get 
them installed, but there were some pygobject bugs in the past...

Thanks,
-Mike

On Thu, 5 Apr 2012, Patrick Welche wrote:

Re: at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Nagappan Alagappan — 2012-04-05T17:04:23

Hi Patrick,

Which distribution are you trying with ?

I have seen some issue with at-spi2 in Ubuntu 11.10 / Fedora 14. Most of
them got fixed for GNOME 3.4 (at-spi2) which is now part of Ubuntu 12.04.

Thanks
Nagappan

On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:17 AM, Patrick Welche <prlw1< at >cam.ac.uk> wrote:

at-spi2 and a11ytesting core dump

Patrick Welche — 2012-04-05T11:17:04

I am getting a repeatable core dump from ldtp when running the gcalctool.xml
test from a11ytesting (bin/mago --log-level=debug -a a11y -f gcalctool.xml):

Core was generated by `python2.6'.
Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
#0  0x00007f7ff77d66c0 in ?? ()
(gdb) bt
#0  0x00007f7ff77d66c0 in ?? ()
#1  0x00007f7fe0e12e05 in _atspi_send_event (e=0x7f7fffffa430)
    at atspi-event-listener.c:817
#2  0x00007f7fe0e13390 in _atspi_dbus_handle_event (bus=0x7f7ff6788400, 
    message=0x7f7ff77069e0, data=0x0) at atspi-event-listener.c:944
#3  0x00007f7fe0e15c18 in process_deferred_message (closure=0x7f7ff2319320)
    at atspi-misc.c:673
#4  0x00007f7fe0e15d2d in _atspi_process_deferred_messages (data=0x0)
    at atspi-misc.c:703
#5  0x00007f7ff0c3ffd2 in g_main_context_dispatch ()
   from /usr/pkg/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0

(gdb) frame 1
#1  0x00007f7fe0e12e05 in _atspi_send_event (e=0x7f7fffffa430)
    at atspi-event-listener.c:817
817             entry->callback (atspi_event_copy (e), entry->user_data);
(gdb) print e
$1 = (AtspiEvent *) 0x7f7fffffa430
(gdb) print *e
$2 = {type = 0x7f7ff23197c0 "object:children-changed:add", 
  source = 0x7f7ff2ff2810, detail1 = 0, detail2 = 0, any_data = {
    g_type = 140187568332640, data = {{v_int = -218158304, 
        v_uint = 4076808992, v_long = 140187514383136, 
        v_ulong = 140187514383136, v_int64 = 140187514383136, 
        v_uint64 = 140187514383136, v_float = -1.0108264e+31, 
        v_double = 6.9261834832583127e-310, v_pointer = 0x7f7ff2ff2b20}, {
        v_int = 0, v_uint = 0, v_long = 0, v_ulong = 0, v_int64 = 0, 
        v_uint64 = 0, v_float = 0, v_double = 0, v_pointer = 0x0}}}}
(gdb) print *entry
$3 = {callback = 0x7f7ff77d66c0, user_data = 0x7f7ff2ff8c50, 
  callback_destroyed = 0x7f7ff77d65c0, category = 0x7f7ff7703c50 "Object", 
  name = 0x7f7ff77d3a20 "ChildrenChanged", detail = 0x0}


The test box is using (at-spi2-core, at-spi2-atk, pyatspi) all version 2.4,
ldtp 2.3.0, accerciser 3.4.0. (i.e., latest tar balls)

One oddity is that the terminal in which ldtp -v is running generates:
(LDTB_DEBG 2 is set)

ldtp -v
sem_wait: Invalid argument
sem_post: Invalid argument
sem_wait: Invalid argument
sem_post: Invalid argument
sem_wait: Invalid argument
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Who is using semaphores? (A quick look doesn't find any in at-spi2-core,
accerciser nor ldtp - have I missed some?)


The only trivial change I made to a11ytesting was:

--- mago/cmd/result.py  2011-10-09 16:01:33 +0000
+++ mago/cmd/result.py  2012-04-05 11:10:55 +0000
< at > -45,4 +45,4 < at >< at >
           self.append('screenshot', _logFile)
         except:
           # Screenshots fail to connect to xmlrpc socket in GNOME 3.0
-          self.append('screenshot failed',_logFile)
+          self.append('screenshot_failed',_logFile)

so I basically have no local modifications in the long string of
dependencies...


Any thoughts on where to look?

Cheers,

Patrick

ANNOUNCE: AT-SPI 2.4.0 released

Mike Gorse — 2012-03-26T21:05:20

AT-SPI 2.4.0 is now available for download at:

http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-core/2.4/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-atk/2.4/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/pyatspi/2.4/

What is AT-SPI2
===============

AT-SPI2 is a D-Bus based accessibility framework. It defines a D-Bus
protocol for providing and accessing application accessibility
information. The project includes a library for bridging the D-Bus
protocol to the ATK API, allowing Gtk based applications to be made
accessible. It also contains a client (AT) side library in C and a wrapper
for Python.


What's changed in AT-SPI 2.4.0

* [core] Fix typo in at-spi-dbus-bus.desktop.in (BGO#605662).

* [core/atk] Updated Hindi translation.

Where can I get more information about AT-SPI2
==============================================

The project wiki is available at:

http://www.a11y.org/d-bus



How can I contribute to AT-SPI2?
================================

We need help testing with Gnome accessibility technologies, improving
performance, and generally tying up loose ends.  The above-referenced page
contains a list of known issues that should be fixed.

IRC   : #a11y on Gimpnet
E-Mail: accessibility-atspi< at >lists.linux-foundation.org

Development repositories can be found at:

git://git.gnome.org/pyatspi2
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-core
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-atk

ATK 2.4.0 released

Piñeiro — 2012-03-26T18:59:31

About ATK
=========

GNOME provides support for accessibility devices using the ATK
framework. This framework defines a set of interfaces to which
graphical interface components adhere. This allows, for instance,
screen readers to read the text of an interface and interact with its
controls. ATK support is built into GTK+ and the rest of the GNOME
platform, so any application using GTK+ will have reasonable
accessibility support for free.

Nonetheless, you should be aware of accessibility issues when when
developing your applications. Although GTK+ interfaces provide
reasonable accessibility by default, you can often improve how well
your program behaves with accessibility tools by providing additional
information to ATK. If you develop custom widgets, you should ensure
that they expose their properties to ATK. You should also avoid using
sound, graphics, or color as the sole means of conveying information
to the user.

The GNOME desktop ships with a number of accessibility tools which
enable users with disabilities to take full advantage of their desktop
and applications. Applications that fully implement ATK will be able
to work with the accessibility tools. GNOME's accessibility tools
include a screen reader, a screen magnifier, an on-screen keyboard,
and Dasher, an predictive text entry tool.

News
====

* Bug 593220: Some typos in atktable signals (docs)
* Updated Hindi and Simplified Chinese translation


Contributors
============

Daniel Mustieles, Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias,

Translations
============

* Automatic Mirroring (zh_CN)
* Rajesh Ranjan (hi)


Download
========

http://download.gnome.org/sources/atk/2.4/atk-2.4.0.tar.xz (593K)
  sha256sum:
091e9ce975a9fbbc7cd8fa64c9c389ffb7fa6cdde58b6d5c01b2c267093d888d

ANNOUNCE: AT-SPI 2.3.92 released

Mike Gorse — 2012-03-20T21:00:37

AT-SPI 2.3.92 is now available for download at:

http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-core/2.3/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/at-spi2-atk/2.3/
http://download.gnome.org/sources/pyatspi/2.3/

What is AT-SPI2
===============

AT-SPI2 is a D-Bus based accessibility framework. It defines a D-Bus
protocol for providing and accessing application accessibility
information. The project includes a library for bridging the D-Bus
protocol to the ATK API, allowing Gtk based applications to be made
accessible. It also contains a client (AT) side library in C and a wrapper
for Python.


What's changed in AT-SPI 2.3.91

* [core] Some changes to try to prevent at-spi2-registryd from incorrectly
   thinking that an AT is hung and passing keys meant for it to the application.

* [core] Fix crash fetching an error from a reply when retrieving a property.

* [atk] Add Khmer and Malayalam translations.

* [pyatspi] Another fix for --enable-tests.


Where can I get more information about AT-SPI2
==============================================

The project wiki is available at:

http://www.a11y.org/d-bus



How can I contribute to AT-SPI2?
================================

We need help testing with Gnome accessibility technologies, improving
performance, and generally tying up loose ends.  The above-referenced page
contains a list of known issues that should be fixed.

IRC   : #a11y on Gimpnet
E-Mail: accessibility-atspi< at >lists.linux-foundation.org

Development repositories can be found at:

git://git.gnome.org/pyatspi2
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-core
git://git.gnome.org/at-spi2-atk

ATK 2.3.95 released

Piñeiro — 2012-03-19T23:36:49

About ATK
=========

GNOME provides support for accessibility devices using the ATK
framework. This framework defines a set of interfaces to which
graphical interface components adhere. This allows, for instance,
screen readers to read the text of an interface and interact with its
controls. ATK support is built into GTK+ and the rest of the GNOME
platform, so any application using GTK+ will have reasonable
accessibility support for free.

Nonetheless, you should be aware of accessibility issues when when
developing your applications. Although GTK+ interfaces provide
reasonable accessibility by default, you can often improve how well
your program behaves with accessibility tools by providing additional
information to ATK. If you develop custom widgets, you should ensure
that they expose their properties to ATK. You should also avoid using
sound, graphics, or color as the sole means of conveying information
to the user.

The GNOME desktop ships with a number of accessibility tools which
enable users with disabilities to take full advantage of their desktop
and applications. Applications that fully implement ATK will be able
to work with the accessibility tools. GNOME's accessibility tools
include a screen reader, a screen magnifier, an on-screen keyboard,
and Dasher, an predictive text entry tool.


News
====

* Bug 671857: Add deprecation attributes to deprecated functions
* Updated Visual Studio configuration files


Contributors
============

Chun-wei Fan, Javier Jardón, Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias,

Translations
============

* bn_IN, courtesy of Runa Bhattacharjee
* km, courtesy of Morn Met
* ml, courtesy of Anish A


Download
========

http://download.gnome.org/sources/atk/2.3/atk-2.3.93.tar.xz (589K)
  sha256sum:
b551078c69132202d310afd180cac87c6f67e14f842a5fadde251479884db2f9

Re: ATK STATE_EDITABLE

Alexander Surkov — 2012-03-07T16:23:00

Cool. What's the usual process that's needed to be done before the the
idea gets into the spec? (Btw, latest IA2 spec allows editable state
on readonly textboxes).

The idea to keep states as methods looks appeal. Other great win is
this is performant way since the server doesn't need to calculate
states all together when AT doesn't need them. I assume the cost of
the server's method call is quite low on ATK so if AT needs to get
several states then it can call several methods unlike the case of out
of process calls on Windows.

Anyway it sounds interesting. I'd like to follow this progress.

Thank you.
Alex.


On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:40 PM, Piñeiro <apinheiro< at >igalia.com> wrote: