gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.accessibility

Re: LibreOffice writer crash - accessibility-related?

Jason White — 2013-05-10T00:31:13


Thanks, that's the kind of response I was looking for.

It's happenging quite consistently here, but this machine has a mix of Debian
Wheezy and Debian experimental packages installed. I can test again after more
of the system is upgraded.

I can also submit a bug report, but if it's due to an unfortunate mix of
libraries on my machine it might be worth waiting and upgrading first. I'm
hoping to avoid installing huge LibreOffice debug symbol packages and running
gdb on it...

I normally do file format conversions from the shell, but it wasn't clear
what argument to give to --convert-to to yield plain text, so I tried it from
the UI instead.

Re: LibreOffice writer crash - accessibility-related?

Sophie Gautier — 2013-05-08T09:24:26

Hi all,
On 08/05/2013 09:51, V Stuart Foote wrote:

I've tested with debian 6 and LibreOffice 4.0.3 and Orca, following
exaclty the process described by Jason, but I din't reproduce the crash.
All went ok.

Kind regards
Sophie

Re: LibreOffice writer crash - accessibility-related?

V Stuart Foote — 2013-05-08T09:02:50

Jason,

Fired up Fedora 18, 32-bit kernel 3.8.11-200.fc18.i686
with orca-3.6.3-1.fc18.i686 active under GNOME 3.6.x DE

With LibreOffice Version 4.0.3.3 (Build ID:
0eaa50a932c8f2199a615e1eb30f7ac74279539)
I had no issue in creating and saving document using menu Save as, or
<ctl><shift>s, and with or without ORCA AT active.

Also no problems creating and saving Writer .odt file with the LXDE desktop,
but ORCA not active.

Someone with a Linux and GNOME installation closer to yours will need to
confirm.  So, please use the  Bug Submission Assistant
<https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/bug/>  to open an issue, and provide
your Linux installation details and exact steps to reproduce the issue.

Stuart



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Re: LibreOffice writer crash - accessibility-related?

V Stuart Foote — 2013-05-08T07:51:18

Jason,

Are you able to submit a Bugzilla report with full details of your system?

I don't know if it specific an Accessibility  related to Orca use, or recent
work on  GTK+ in general. I will try to test from a Fedora GNOME 3 DE with
ORCA running to see if I am similarly affected. But someone with Debian load
might be closer to your environment.

An OpenGrok search for the "focus - out - event" error hinted to two
potential areas, I did not check specific commit dates but all three source
files have had recent code work and might be involved.

 /core/vcl/unx/gtk/a11y/
atkwindow.cxx 216 g_signal_connect_after( GTK_WIDGET( data ),
"focus-out-event",
 
 /core/vcl/unx/gtk/window/
gtkobject.cxx 71 g_signal_connect( G_OBJECT(m_pSocket), "focus-out-event",
G_CALLBACK(signalFocus), this );
gtksalframe.cxx 798 g_signal_connect( G_OBJECT(m_pWindow),
"focus-out-event", G_CALLBACK(signalFocus), this );

If you do open a bug report, simply post its number here and we should move
discussion to the bug.

Stuart



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LibreOffice writer crash - accessibility-related?

Jason White — 2013-05-08T03:27:22

This is 4.0.3-rc3 from the Debian package. To reproduce:

1. Create or load a sample document in LO Writer.

2. Ctrl-Shift-s to select "save as".

3. Change the file name appropriately and the format to, for example plain
text.

4. Select "save".

At this point the crash occurs, with the following errors:

Can others reproduce this? Does it only occur with accessibility active or is
it a general issue? I can't test without accessibility and Orca operating.

Script started on Wed 08 May 2013 13:04:22 EST
jason< at >jdc:~$ loffice /tmp/test-document.html 

** (soffice:13163): WARNING **: Unknown type: GailWindow

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkAdjustment' to `GtkWindow'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkAdjustment' to `GtkWidget'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: /tmp/buildd/glib2.0-2.33.12+really2.32.4/./gobject/gsignal.c:2459: signal `focus-out-event' is invalid for instance `0x2904400'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkAdjustment' to `GtkWindow'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkAdjustment' to `GtkWidget'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: /tmp/buildd/glib2.0-2.33.12+really2.32.4/./gobject/gsignal.c:2459: signal `focus-out-event' is invalid for instance `0x28d75e0'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkAdjustment' to `GtkWindow'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkAdjustment' to `GtkWidget'

(soffice:13163): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: /tmp/buildd/glib2.0-2.33.12+really2.32.4/./gobject/gsignal.c:2459: signal `focus-out-event' is invalid for instance `0x26dfde0'

(soffice:13163): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_tree_model_get: assertion `GTK_IS_TREE_MODEL (tree_model)' failed
jason< at >jdc:~$ exit

Re: Seeking for list moderators

Florian Effenberger — 2013-05-06T14:07:01

Hi,

Tom Davies wrote on 2013-05-05 22:54:

thanks a lot - you are now moderator of accessibility< at > :-) There's no 
limit on people who can moderate...

Florian

Re: Seeking for list moderators

Tom Davies — 2013-05-05T20:54:10

Hi :)
Me too.  Stuart is likely to be much better than me at this but if i can support him a bit then that would be fantastic.  


So, if you could make me and Stuart both moderators of the Accessibility List that would be excellent.  Is there a limit on number of people?  If so i would happily stand down if someone else wants to do it because there are other lists i could moderate instead if required.  So, i wouldn't be hurt or anything.  

Regards from 

Tom :)

Re: Seeking for list moderators

V Stuart Foote — 2013-05-05T16:38:36

Florian,

Happy to moderate this list.

Stuart



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Fostering project internal communication

Florian Effenberger — 2013-05-04T13:24:57

Hello,

sorry for spamming all the lists, but in the light of recent events and 
discussions, I'd like to make all of you aware of an important mailing 
list, that so far has not been used as extensively as it should be, 
which led to some frustration and communication issues.

As part of our mission to foster the project internal communication, I'd 
like to tell you about our so called projects mailing list, which Sophie 
initiated quite a while ago, and which should be used for communication 
amongst the various projects - e.g. design and marketing, development 
and marketing, UX and development, and the like.

The list's intention is not to be a gossip list where everything should 
be thrown at, but to make all affected projects aware of important 
changes. Philosophy: Low traffic, but important topics.

Some examples are: Change of version numbers, a new slogan, design 
changes, new products. In other words: Everything that has an impact on 
other areas of working than the one where the change originally comes from.

If one team decides LibreOffice will now be called different, and has a 
shiny new colour, surely marketing should know in time. Well, a bit of a 
made up example, but you get the point... ;-)

We have seen some unpleasant events in the past, that based on my 
experience, are mostly due to the lack of communication, or due to 
miscommunication. To avoid that in the future, I'd like to call out to 
everyone of you, if you are active in one of the subprojects, to also 
join this mailing list by sending an empty e-mail to

projects+subscribe< at >global.libreoffice.org

and following the instructions mailed back. At least one or two 
representatives from *each* project should join this list, to act as a 
gateway.

I will soon follow up further with some details and topics that have 
reached me the past weeks, and how we could solve them.

Again, sorry for spamming, and have a great weekend!
Florian

Seeking for list moderators

Florian Effenberger — 2013-05-04T11:22:33

Hello,

at the moment, we are looking for volunteers who could help moderate 
this mailing list.

If you are interested, the only requirement is that you are subscribed 
to the list yourself and read its mails in a somehow timely manner, but 
that's about it.

Moderation means dealing with e-mails that do not automatically make it 
to the list, which you then manually forward, or reject. This happens 
either when an e-mail comes from an unknown sender, e.g. when a project 
member uses a different address for posting. It also occurs when someone 
unexperienced writes to the list, thinking it's a private account, but 
in fact it's a public list.

You'll receive the message to be moderated via e-mail, which you then 
can either "moderate through", or reject.

Is someone interested in joining our efforts? It'd be much appreciated - 
just drop me an email (please also copy me directly, and not only the 
list), then I'm happy to add you to the list of moderators.

Thanks!
Florian

Re: Possilbe UNO Accessibility API-JavaAccess Bridge issue in current build of Master whileusing NVDAfor AT

Tom Davies — 2013-04-23T11:42:43

Hi :)
Thanks :)  That is all good.  I only went off-list in case it was a real mistake = to let you have a chance to deal with it yourself.  Some people get embarrassed by such things in public.  Also it would have been the first typo like that i've seen Stuart make (i think).  
Regards from 
Tom :)

Possilbe UNO Accessibility API -JavaAccess Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDAfor AT

V Stuart Foote — 2013-04-23T10:31:29

Hi Tom,

No it was an issue with the 4.1.0 daily builds of master. The bug listed, fdo#63680, deals with indeterminant crashes of Writer on Windows builds of master--the last viable TinderBox build occurred 8 April, so this issue has been on the Most Annoying Bugs list for the 4.1 development.

Also, turned out to be a problem over on the NV Access, NVDA side where one of the modules for handling Java Access Bridge based content was misconfigured in their upcomming 2013.1 release as compared to the stable 2012.3.1 version--that has been corrected.

With the TDF and LibreOffice with 3.6.7, 4.0.3 and ongoing development of master (currently notated 4.1.0+ alpha) I cycle through all the branches testing for Windows (and occasionally Linux and OSX builds) looking at general usability and trying to identify accessibility issues.

At any time I will have  4 or 5 LibreOffice or Apache OpenOffice installations and assistive technologies loaded. Not too difficult to accomplish, just have to pay attention to configuration and understand when registry and user profiles have to be removed or relocated.

This Wiki entry is helpful for anyone interested, always looking for committed QA participants who can work an issue:

Installing several versions of LibreOffice in parallel - The Document Foundation Wiki<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel>

Stuart

p.s. -- hope you don't mind that I put your note back on-list, figure some folks might have been confused and would benefit from an explanation.


________________________________
From: Tom Davies [tomdavies04< at >yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 5:05 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: off-list 4.0.1 alpha? Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Possilbe UNO Accessibility API - Java Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDA for AT

Hi :)
I don't think anyone noticed or else they understood what you meant but i take it you meant the 4.0.1 rather than the 4.1.0?  I don't think the 4.1.0 is out yet?
Regards from
Tom :)


________________________________
From: V Stuart Foote <VStuart.Foote< at >utsa.edu>
To: accessibility< at >global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Saturday, 20 April 2013, 22:05
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Possilbe UNO Accessibility API - Java Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDA for AT

So is not an issue with accessibility API and Java Access Bridge  - problem
confirmed  to be issue of  FDO#63680
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63680>  against LibreOffice
4.1.0 alpha build TB 6 build on 2013-04-18 where Writer is crashing.

Not JAB and UAA related as issue occurs even when they are not enabled.




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Re: Possilbe UNO Accessibility API -Java Access Bridge issue in current build of Master while using NVDAfor AT

V Stuart Foote — 2013-04-20T21:05:38

So is not an issue with accessibility API and Java Access Bridge  - problem
confirmed  to be issue of  FDO#63680
<https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63680>  against LibreOffice
4.1.0 alpha build TB 6 build on 2013-04-18 where Writer is crashing.

Not JAB and UAA related as issue occurs even when they are not enabled.




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Possilbe UNO Accessibility API - Java Access Bridge issue incurrent build of Master while using NVDA for AT

V Stuart Foote — 2013-04-18T21:36:39

On Windows 7 SP1 64-bit
JRE 1.6.45
JAB 2.0.2

Bumped into a an issue with Java Access Bridge and LibreOffice today's Master daily build.

When running the NVDA 2012.3.1 AT screen reader, a long stable test document is crashing LibreOffice 4.1 alpha from Master when accessed with NVDA AT in use.  Without NVDA AT active, the document opens fully in todays daily build.

Without NVDA AT activated, the JavaFerret and JavaMonkey utilities both show the document opening correctly with today's LibreOffice build of Master.   And on the same system, earlier builds of Master, 4.0.3.1 and 4.0.2.2 opened and continue to open while NVDA is in use.

Have opened an issue with NVAccess  against NVDA 2012.3.1 ( http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/3170 ) but suspect it could be recent Java work in LibreOffice--Java Ferret/Java Monkey less sensitive to whatever the issue is.

Test document opens with these builds of LibreOffice while NVDA is active
LibreOffice_4.0.2_Win_x86.msi
LibreOffice_4.0.3.1_Win_x86.msi (administrative install)
master~2013-03-22_21.36.46_LibreOfficeDev_4.1.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi (administrative install)

Does not ope With NVDA AT active with an administrative install of todays:
master~2013-04-18_04.00.51_LibreOfficeDev_4.1.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi

NVDA logging shows error: 
gainFocus on <NVDAObjects.Dynamic_EditableTextWithoutAutoSelectDetectionJAB object at 0x06028C90> with extra args of {} 

Suggests there may be a recent change in what LibreOffice is exposing via UAA and the JAB.

Holding off on a FDO bug for now to allow NV Access devs a chance to look at what is faulting on the JAB events.

Stuart

Re: Programmers are unable to extractpressed keys and text sequences in LibreOffice 4.x.

Tom Davies — 2013-04-16T13:50:12

Hi :)
Have you been able to solve this already?  Did you get any answers?  Many apologies but i think the low traffic list went very quiet over Easter.  Normally it relies on 1 or 2 total stars and if they are not around the rest of us feel a bit helpless.

I am forwarding this to the Users List just in case someone there can help
Apols and regards from 
Tom :)

Programmers are unable to extract pressed keys and text sequences inLibreOffice 4.x.

Olav Dahlum — 2013-04-12T12:15:02

Software like Lingdys and Lingright from http://lingit.no/ are unable to
work with 4.x.
Torbjørn Norgård <torbjorn< at >lingit.no> told me that no text sequences or
pressed keys can be extracted and thus the software are unable to assist
the user. I know that some older accessibility API's etc was removed, but
could someone shed some more light on this subject?

odt2braille (was: New to the list,,, )

Christophe Strobbe — 2013-04-09T15:58:53

Hi Keith,

Am Di, 9.04.2013, 17:04 schrieb Keith Reedy:

I know the main developer of odt2braille, so I can pass on comments
related to bugs etc. (I myself don't use a Mac and don't print Braille.)

Best regards,

Christophe

Re: New to the list,,,

Tom Davies — 2013-04-09T15:19:40

Hi :)
It is very low traffic but just post each question as a separate thread, if possible, and you might find answers happen within a day or so.  It would be nice if the team was more active and took charge more but there are some good people here doing some great stuff behind the scenes.
Good luck, welcome in and regards from 
Tom :)

New to the list,,,

Keith Reedy — 2013-04-09T15:04:55

Hello every one,

I have just been on the list for a few days and as of yet I have seen no traffic, so, I am guessing that this is a low traffic list and that is a good thing.

I am Keith Reedy director of Bibles for the Blind in the US,
www.biblesfortheblind.org

We have just begun to use LibreOffice with the ODT to Braille extension to translate print documents in to braille.  I would like to talk with some one who is using LibreOffice in the same manner about a couple of things I have found to see if some one has found a workaround.

I am using an iMac with OS 10.8 and we do have a couple of 10.6 iMacs on site as well.

Thanks.
Keith Reedy
keithreedy< at >fastmail.net

Re: keyboard accessibility of newtemplate manager - fdo#61390

V Stuart Foote — 2013-03-02T22:53:39

of course that fdo#61389 was a typo for fdo#61390...



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keyboard accessibility of new templatemanager - fdo#61390

V Stuart Foote — 2013-03-02T21:46:51

fdo#61468 was added to mab 4.0, but it needed to be combined with fdo#61389. So used the earlier report on the MAB list.

Cross posting this to the UX list because while the the new (at 4.0.0) Template Manager is a a really great feature, it somehow made it through development and QA deficient in its accessibility roles.

I hope all can agree that for effective AT, accessibility roles and interfaces really benefit from consistency and a fully instrumented accessibility structure.

With so many development channels, it is not clear to me how to achieve that earlier in the component and feature design, But looking at the new Template Manager, in context with long standing accessibility issues with the F11 - Styles & Formatting panel, it is clear that some renewed UX team emphasis on accessibility and support for AT in the user interface is needed.

Stuart