http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27463 <pre>2013/5/24 Patrick Shirkey &lt;pshirkey&lt; at &gt;boosthardware.com&gt; This is hilarious. _______________________________________________ Jack-Devel mailing list Jack-Devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org http://lists.jackaudio.org/listinfo.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org </pre> Felix Homann 2013-05-24T09:52:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27462 <pre> On Fri, May 24, 2013 7:04 am, Chris Caudle wrote: Google's version of Android is not 100% open. They make decisions about it's direction and don't consult with the wider community. They have been unable to deliver the flexibility for us to run JACK, PA, Gstreamer, or any other audio tools for 4 years. The market is consistently growing but they have excluded professional audio manufacturers and developers from the market. As they have a near monopoly on the global market they are verging on anti competitive behaviour. That is anti trust. It's got nothing to do with open source. You're missing the point. How many people are going to install cyanogen-mod to use low latency audio? That is not a business model for professional audio manufacturers and developers. You seem to think that there is no market for professional audio on the Android platform. If that is the case then it would be the same on iOS too. Clearly it is not so you must be wrong in that assumption. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd </pre> Patrick Shirkey 2013-05-24T09:39:33 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27461 <pre>I can help here... I had the same problem, and have a couple of patches around. The attached patches remove the uid from the socket and semaphore names. This fixes jackd in promiscuous mode in my setup. you will probably need to strip a few prefixes from the patches, since in my repo jack is one of several packages, but that's about it. These are against jackd2 1.9.8, but they should still apply fine. I was going to submit these changes as soon as I got to review the new jack version, but if there are other users needing it, I am more than happy to help. Cheers, Luciano VISITA IL NOSTRO NUOVO SITO WEB! - VISIT OUR NEW WEB SITE! www.magnetimarelli.com Confidential Notice: This message - including its attachments - may contain proprietary, confidential and/or legally protected information and is intended solely for the use of the designated addressee(s) above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any downloading, copying, disclosure, distribution or use of the contents of the above information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication by mistake, please forward the message back to the sender at the email address above, delete the message from all mailboxes and any other electronic storage medium and destroy all copies. Disclaimer Notice: Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be safe or error-free. Therefore we do not assure that this message is complete or accurate and we do not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message. _______________________________________________ Jack-Devel mailing list Jack-Devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org http://lists.jackaudio.org/listinfo.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org </pre> MONTANARO Luciano (MM 2013-05-24T08:25:42 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27460 <pre>HEY Vasyl ! I'm glad ! Yep, I realised that you ment free download after I posted the e-mail LOL   The difference I found with ReaRoute is that Jack connects all audio of my apps between them in any combination, though Rearoute has always as base Reaper and also cannot mix 32bit with 64bit apps, as for example with jack can have here EWQL orch x64(Free) with sampleTank x86 (free) in standalone mode. And to be fair, Reaper has the same ability with bridging if one uses the VST mode AND Jack is total free.   Also I have found that Jack behaves better than ReaRoute when using apps that cannot be VST, only standalone. There Jack delivers me a quality crack free sound whereas ReaRoute needs higher buffer number to reach the same quality (Jack at 128, Rearoute at 384), most probably has to do with my OS, or maybe not, cannot verify this yet, but the above mesurements above are correct. Asio4all driver on both cases.   Best Panos ________________________________ Απο: Vasyl Saftyuk &lt;jazzvas&lt; at &gt;yandex.ua&gt; Προς: Panos Ghekas &lt;panosg62&lt; at &gt;yahoo.gr&gt;; "jack-devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org" &lt;jack-devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org&gt; Στάλθηκε: 1:27 π.μ. Παρασκευή, 24 Μαΐου 2013 Θέμα: Re: Σχετ: [Jack-Devel] Reaper 64bit (vs) Jack Audio mixed 64/32bit Thanx, Panos, a lot! Results of tests are very good!) There was realy unregistered DLL-file in a system. I have registered manualy the 64bit Jack DLL, and it just worked! Have never used ReaRouteAsio in Reaper. But it also would be interesting to test it.) About using Reaper - your right! I meaned "free download" = "accessible download", not FREE for USE :) -- with respect, Vasyl Safiuk! 24.05.2013, 00:32, "Panos Ghekas" &lt;panosg62&lt; at &gt;yahoo.gr&gt;: </pre> Panos Ghekas 2013-05-23T23:14:34 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27459 <pre> Ill-advisedly jumping into the middle of this discussion: I'm aware of quite a lot of guitar oriented apps for iPhone, such as IK Multmedia's Amplitube. People do use these, for convenience and the low additional cost (obviously the device itself is fairly expensive, but compared to pro audio gear not so bad). There are very few (when I checked last year basically none) for android, supposedly because the audio framework is not up to it. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk </pre> Ian Malone 2013-05-23T22:47:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27458 <pre>Thanx, Panos, a lot! Results of tests are very good!) There was realy unregistered DLL-file in a system. I have registered manualy the 64bit Jack DLL, and it just worked! Have never used ReaRouteAsio in Reaper. But it also would be interesting to test it.) About using Reaper - your right! I meaned "free download" = "accessible download", not FREE for USE :) -- with respect, Vasyl Safiuk! 24.05.2013, 00:32, "Panos Ghekas" &lt;panosg62&lt; at &gt;yahoo.gr&gt;: </pre> Vasyl Saftyuk 2013-05-23T22:27:48 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27457 <pre>Hi Vasyl,   I'm using both Jack and Reaper for four years now. I never had problems.   Now I'm on win 7 x64, Jack 1.9.9.5 latest build (32/64) where I manualy registered the 64bit jack.dll on windows system 32 from the first build of both 32 and 64bit jack for windows Stephane offered so kindly to us. then every update I'm doin no need to re-register.   Reaper 451rc1 x64 which by the way is NOT FREEWARE, simply Cockos have the poclicy of not closing it after the 60 days trial and it just asks you to buy it please for some sec. :-) I did because I like what it offers for just 27euros where CuBase here is more than 600.... Also is the best DAW worldwide today IMVHO   I have no issue Reaper seeing jackrouter. I just checked just before reply here. It's there and ready to use.   Tips : 1.did you registered manualy the 64bit jack dll with command prompt ? 2.You must first open Jackrouter and then Reaper &gt; Preferences&gt;Audio it's there waiting.   Indeed the possibilities with jack and Reaper are countless, but there are people using the ReaRouteAsio as well (like me, having all three at hand LOL)   Take another test and post back please Best Panos ________________________________ Απο: Vasyl Saftyuk &lt;jazzvas&lt; at &gt;yandex.ua&gt; Προς: jack-devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org Στάλθηκε: 11:20 μ.μ. Πέμπτη, 23 Μαΐου 2013 Θέμα: [Jack-Devel] Reaper 64bit (vs) Jack Audio mixed 64/32bit Dear developers! I use jack audio for 8 month, and i am very glad for this aplication! It works fine at Win7 64bit I usualy use last version of JackAudio (mixed 32/64bit mode) server for connection (DAW) Cockos "Reaper" 32bit with other audio aplications. And it works! But.. it does not work with "Reaper" 64bit (all versions) at Win7 64bit. The DAW doesn't see JackAudio in ASIO LIST, so it is impossible to connect it with JackAudio. May i ask you to look, what is problem there? And could you help with it? "Reaper" is free for download, and it doesn't lose functionality after trial period of 1 month, and is usble for all next time. So, it is easy to test it in working with JackAudio. official website is: http://reaper.fm/ link for download Reaper 64bit: http://reaper.fm/download.php I hope for your help. I'll wait for your response. </pre> Panos Ghekas 2013-05-23T21:32:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27456 <pre> Maybe that people who want to run low latency audio applications on their phones are an incredibly small percentage of the total market. And that low latency applications have a detrimental impact on power consumption, which decreases battery life, which is very important to a very large percentage of the target market. Ridiculous is the only polite term I can think of. How can you have an anti-trust lawsuit over an open source operating system? If there was such a demand for low latency audio applications on Android then certainly one of the OEM's could fork Android and provide a version with low latency extensions enabled. For that matter you could as well. Get to work on it, I'm sure the Cyanogen mod guys won't mind hosting. </pre> Chris Caudle 2013-05-23T21:04:17 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27455 <pre> I can't help with the problem, but you might get more replies if you resend your email in plain text instead of HTML. It's very hard to read with a text based email client, which is what many developer list members are using. John </pre> John Rigg 2013-05-23T20:46:53 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27454 <pre>_______________________________________________ Jack-Devel mailing list Jack-Devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org http://lists.jackaudio.org/listinfo.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org </pre> Vasyl Saftyuk 2013-05-23T20:32:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27453 <pre>_______________________________________________ Jack-Devel mailing list Jack-Devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org http://lists.jackaudio.org/listinfo.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org </pre> Vasyl Saftyuk 2013-05-23T20:20:15 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27452 <pre> On Thu, May 23, 2013 9:20 pm, axl99 wrote: What is there to do? Ubuntu runs on Unity and supports gstreamer so the only issue is if the Ubuntu developers have decided to purposefully disable JACK support in gstreamer. There's nothing to suggest that is the case at this stage. We know that the current version of PA on Tizen does not have JACK sink support but that should be fixed soon as the PA Tizen devs are actively working on the issue. So, the only problem is Google's attitude towards professional audio and JACK support. JACK runs on the raspberry pi. It's not like it requires a lot of resources. Just realtime capabilities to meet the demands of professional users. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd </pre> Patrick Shirkey 2013-05-23T12:06:11 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27451 <pre>Ok, an absolutely last statement ;). On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 13:20 +0200, axl99 wrote: It's not wanted in this thread, but it does belong to a developers thread and it explains the way Google (and other vendors are/) is thinking. I completely agree with this. But the reality for those devices, depending to the target group for those devices, is completely different. "Outerwear retailer Moosejaw has released an augmented reality app for iPhone, iPad and Android devices that lets users see through the clothing featured in its winter catalog. Male and female models are shown stripped down to their under-layers when the app is positioned over catalog pages, as shown in the video above." - http://mashable.com/2011/11/11/moosejaw-xray-augmented-reality-app/ It's intended to through away those devices after a short usage period and then to by the next generation, for sure the next app will only run on the newer devices, but then it's possible to see them naked or to dress them in leather and latex. You perhaps noticed, that this app does run on both platforms, iPad and Android. It makes no sense to take care about pro-audio. The target group for those devices need them as status symbols, some do use them in a sane, but unlikely creative way, but most completely have no real aim and use them insanely. Most people simply own this crap just because it's "normal" to do the same as everybody does and use it with crappy apps and that is wanted, intended by the vendors. </pre> Ralf Mardorf 2013-05-23T11:55:59 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27450 <pre>Well, somebody asked for use cases and I did provide one. What about all this waste? Well, that's another question and I have concerns about it that are probably very similar to yours, but I believe this doesn't belong in this thread. I'd just like to repeat that very small and powerful computers with real time audio capabilities and without Apples hard- and software restrictions could open very many possibilities for many people in the pro/amateur/whatever audio world. What about the Ubuntu phone platform? Have any Jack developers gotten into that already? Cheers, Axel On May 23, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: </pre> axl99 2013-05-23T11:20:26 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27449 <pre> I'm finished with my "agitation". Google does know what they want and they are free to do so. Jack does work on Linux, that's indeed the most important thing. </pre> Ralf Mardorf 2013-05-23T11:22:24 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27448 <pre>Hi, It's quite annoying to read all this political agitation and IMHO jack-devel list is not a place for this. We have few issues even on x86 (most important for me now is multilib problem in Jack2). It's sad because this thread disturb our dear Jack core developers , I'm worried about this ;( P. Dnia Czwartek, 23 Maja 2013 12:32 Ralf Mardorf &lt;ralf.mardorf&lt; at &gt;alice-dsl.net&gt; napisał(a) </pre> Pawel 2013-05-23T11:18:12 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27447 <pre>That's your choice. I've got FX gear that is &gt;= 30 years old, was used on stage and never gets broken and I own modern FX gear that was only used in the studio and gets broken after 3 years. IMO even this modern FX equipment I bought is more solid than a tablet PC. This are my experiences with my own equipment, I carefully maintained it. I also worked professional for audio and there I've seen people who where not very careful. It wasn't their own equipment and they sometimes even were to stupid to roll up a cable. I suspect that a lot of tablet PC won't survive 1 day of professional usage. I'm aware of the possibilities an Android tablet would provide and I would like to get one myself, but I don't expect this gear to be durable. Perhaps you want to keep this in mind: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=agbogbloshie+images We, you and me, are responsible for this! For me the question about rt-audio abilities is interesting too, but I try not to forget about the whole story. Are those consumer tablet PC vendors evil, when they make marketing decisions about pro-audio? Perhaps, perhaps not. What about all this waste? </pre> Ralf Mardorf 2013-05-23T10:32:34 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27446 <pre> Here's the guy who wants to use his Android stick as a guitar/vocal fx machine, freely programmable through in my case Supercollider. That would mean: I would not need a guitar fx board anymore. Not ever anymore! I could go places where regular audio fx designers don't go because the results might not sound "impressing" in a conventional commercial sense. I could freely express myself through technology (wasn't that one of the foundational ideas of the free software movement?) As for the "smartphones and tablets are not build for professional use" argument: People do use them professionally! Just as they always have with stuff that was deemed toys by others or "consumer computers" by certain marketing people. Also, an Android computer doesn't have to be a phone or a tablet. Those Android sticks are so much more suited for on stage and studio use than conventional laptops with all those parts that can break. Has anyone ever built a laptop computer that was truly built for on stage use? That's just my use case. I can imagine many many others. I can imagine a whole music-technological movement once a platform is created that works very similar to ios without that crippling of the connectivity which Apple marketing decided on to ensure control over what people do with their devices, i.e. mainly consume Apple provided media content. Just a lowly guitar player's and hobby programmer's 2 euro cents Kind regards, Axel </pre> axl99 2013-05-23T09:49:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27445 <pre> Fortunately I'm living in a free nation. Here in Germany the customers have got the self-responsibility to buy or not to buy. So if the folks think that the Android guys do something bad, than even the people who don't use pro-audio, are free to be solidary with us. Unfortunately we have tendencies in Germany that the lawmaker will tread us like children, so I don't like to read that somebody has got the responsibility to take care about thinks (s)he isn't interested in. What does "libre" mean for you? You have got the "libre" to do what you want with FLOSS, but you need to take care about Patrick's dictation? I agree with you, that they should take care about our needs. But more important IMO is "libre". Often there is rant, if people aren't self-responsible in our community and now you're talking about the responsibility of others. We humans have the responsibility to take care about issues on our planet, regarding to hunger, wars etc. pp., but we are self-responsible regarding to issues for our music equipment, computers etc.. It might be a little bit unsocial, but not that much as you express it here. </pre> Ralf Mardorf 2013-05-23T08:14:41 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27444 <pre>Le Thu, 23 May 2013 01:36:23 +0200, Ralf Mardorf &lt;ralf.mardorf&lt; at &gt;alice-dsl.net&gt; a écrit : Global warning and CO2 is the tree that hide the forest of all the other countless pollution sources. The key is our relationship with nature, which determines all other forms or human relationships. And no technology, and certainly not a patented one, can replace nature. Take the new technologies, at a global level, they just add new pollution sources to the old ones. For capitalism, this relationship is an exploitation. For marxism, it is a fight. Both are equally wrong on that essential point, because no human society will survive on the long run when its relationship with nature is not based on respect. Respect is also the essential condition for solidarity. Which doesn't mean to be naive, but just mean to be smart enough to discuss and reach a common agreement that can satisfy each and every body. Respect is democracy for the peoples by the peoples, and is possible only with the consciousness that earth is our only source of life and that no technology can replace it. Revolution Mean Revolutionary Consciousness (Sture Johannesson), not marxism, capitalism or whateverism. </pre> Dominique Michel 2013-05-23T08:11:24 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.audio.jackit/27443 <pre> Just bringing Raph and Glenn back into the discussion (it looks like they accidentally got dropped out of the conversation, sometime yesterday). In case you guys are interested in this debate (or would like to make a contribution) here is (mostly) what you've missed:- http://jack-audio.10948.n7.nabble.com/Jack-Devel-Fwd-andraudio-Google-I-O-High-performance-audio-talk-td16660.html regards, John Emmas On Thu, May 23, 2013 5:53 am, John Emmas wrote: Normally I would agree but in this case Android is the dominant OS on the planet. They have a responsibility to be more careful in the way they approach sensitive business topics such as making money out of professional audio. By completely excluding the will of the LAD community they are taking the wrong approach so I want to know why they feel it is acceptable for them to make decisions like that on our behalf. Put simply if we want to run JACK on Android why is Google deciding for us that we are not allowed to? What rationale can they possibly have that makes it seem like a logical choice on their part? Considering that Google is supposed to hire incredibly bright people to make these kind of decisions there is something in this picture that is just not making sense. How can the entire Google Android team think that low latency is not important enough to justify them solving the issue once and for all? Who in the Google Android team is getting the priority on that decision? Is it coming all the way from the top? Do we have to petition Sanjay to get him to weigh in on the matter? If we had a petition from all the LAD professors who work at the top universities of the world that might make Google take some notice. Especially if it was published in wired or Ars Technica, etc... Does he already know about the issue and not see the value of solving it? Has it not been explained sufficiently clearly what kind of impact this is having on the wider market and Googles reputation too? Do they not realise that they look like complete dicks at this point for having failed to solve the problem for so long? Does Google want this to continue perpetually or are they prepared to allocate some more resources, solve it and let everyone get on with their business? Are they aware that they are getting close to a class action anti trust law suit and that simply by opening one up they would have to spend significant amounts of money on legal fees that could be invested in solving this problem and avoiding more egg on their face? Anyway they are reading and no doubt discussing internally. I have had some private feedback with some more advanced details but we have still not got to the bottom of the issue as far as I am concerned. The latest excuse is backwards compatibility. I don't see how that makes any difference. I can't even upgrade my old android phone from 3 years ago unless I roll my own cyanogen-mod. The OEM is certainly not going to do it for me. I'm highly doubtful that I will see another update from the vendor for my 1 year old tablet too. Raph or Glenn are welcome to chime in at any point with their feedback. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Jack-Devel mailing list Jack-Devel&lt; at &gt;lists.jackaudio.org http://lists.jackaudio.org/listinfo.cgi/jack-devel-jackaudio.org </pre> John Emmas 2013-05-23T06:48:55 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.comp.audio.jackit