gmane.science.economics.progressive-economists

Yousef Munayyer in NY Times: Not All Israeli Citizens AreEqual

Joseph Catron — 2012-05-24T00:56:46

"Tragically for Palestinians, Zionism requires the state to empower and
maintain a Jewish majority even at the expense of its non-Jewish citizens,
and the occupation of the West Bank is only one part of it. What exists
today between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea is therefore
essentially one state, under Israeli control, where Palestinians have
varying degrees of limited rights: 1.5 million are second-class citizens,
and four million more are not citizens at all. If this is not apartheid,
then whatever it is, it’s certainly not democracy. "

http://nyti.ms/JWhp5P

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

David Shemano — 2012-05-23T21:51:17

The article said the labeling requirement is based on the "fraud" that something produced in the West Bank is produced in Israel, not because the good was produced in an illegal settlement.  

David Shemano

-----Original Message-----
From: pen-l-bounces-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org [mailto:pen-l-bounces-FPEHb7Xf0XWSGuFOoTDV7g< at >public.gmane.org.edu] On Behalf Of michael perelman
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:01 PM
To: Progressive Economics
Subject: Re: [Pen-l] South Africa to label settlement goods

David, you are a lawyer.  Obviously, you have a response to this, but the settlements are illegal according to international law.  The illegality of the occupation is somewhat less.

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:44 AM, David Shemano <DShemano-VUuivrTqRrj4abn9venZsw< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
95929

530 898 5321
fax 530 898 5901
http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com
_______________________________________________
pen-

Sensible and popular Keynesians - the sophistry of RaghuramRajan

robert mckee — 2012-05-23T20:40:42

http://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/sensible-and-popular-keynesians-the-sophistry-of-raghuram-rajan/

Rajan seeks to suggest in discussing what needs to be done to get the 
world economy going, it is necessary to make a distinction between 
“sensible” and “popular” Keynesians.  According to Rajan, sensible Keynesians must instead advocate more 
austerity and cuts in government until the private sector recovers of 
its own accord.  That’s neither sensible nor Keynesian._______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

Jim Devine — 2012-05-23T20:10:44

And aren't all the illegal settlements Jewish?

James Devine
 On May 23, 2012 1:01 PM, "michael perelman" <michael.perelman3-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org>
wrote:

_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

michael perelman — 2012-05-23T20:00:51

David, you are a lawyer.  Obviously, you have a response to this, but
the settlements are illegal according to international law.  The
illegality of the occupation is somewhat less.

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 9:44 AM, David Shemano <DShemano-VUuivrTqRrj4abn9venZsw< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: Taking over Greece's fiscal policy

Sabri Oncu — 2012-05-23T19:56:22

Sure. Trichet was talking about invading Greece militarily. What else?

Best,
Sabri
_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

David Shemano — 2012-05-23T16:44:59

Why is the boycott limited to Jewish settlements?  Why would it not apply to a non-Jewish owned  business in the West Bank that slapped a "Made in Israel" stamp on a product?

David Shemano

-----Original Message-----
From: pen-l-bounces-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org [mailto:pen-l-bounces-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Robert Naiman
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:52 PM
To: Progressive Economics
Subject: [Pen-l] South Africa to label settlement goods

Other countries could do this (clears throat.)

Israeli anger over S Africa bid to label West Bank settlement goods Vita Bekker, The National (UAE), May 21, 2012 http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/israeli-anger-over-s-africa-bid-to-label-west-bank-settlement-goods

Tel Aviv - The Israeli government lambasted an unprecedented move by South Africa to label all products made in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank before selling them.

The South African decision, should it be implemented, wou

Weisbrot/Guardian: New ILO Leadership Could Push For BetterEconomic Policies

Robert Naiman — 2012-05-23T16:31:50

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/22/new-role-ilo-world-economy

A new role for the ILO in the world economy
Poised to elect a new director general, the International Labor
Organization needs to challenge the pro-austerity consensus

Mark Weisbrot
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 22 May 2012 16.58 EDT

The Troika – the European Central Bank (ECB), the European Commission,
and the IMF – is dragging Europe into its second recession in three
years. The ECB by itself has the ability to end this crisis, by
guaranteeing low interest rates on the sovereign bonds of countries
such as Spain and Italy. Member governments would then be able to
restore normal economic growth and employment.

But the ECB refuses to do this – partly because the Troika is using
the crisis as an opportunity to force changes, especially in the
weaker eurozone economies, changes that the people residing there
would never vote for. These reforms include shrinking government,
privatization, "labor flexibility", and reduce

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

Joseph Catron — 2012-05-23T01:01:02

Robert, whenever this topic arises, you always seem to respond to a lot of
things that nobody has said.

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Robert Naiman <naiman-GKljc6h9Mzb8dW4R1uvzK65RK/E6TXo3< at >public.gmane.orgg

If one is serious about the "S" of BDS - sanctions, that is, penalties


Who advocated that?




Who said that?




And now the real silliness begins. When has Hamas ever adopted any such a
position?




Except that last one.



Even if opinion polls in the '67 territories were worth anything (and
they're crap), so what? Support for UN membership for one state does not
entail recognition of another. Such nuances may be lost on Western
commentators, but I assure you, people here are well aware of them.

Re: risk underwriting

John Vertegaal — 2012-05-23T00:39:50

Sorry for the late posting. I'm slow but not quite that slow. Have been 
out of touch since mid-weekend when my rural community hotspot went out 
of service. Only just got it back...

On 19/05/2012 1:39 PM, Shane Mage wrote:

 > On May 19, 2012, John Vertegaal wrote:
 >>
 >> Both you and I know that Conrad
 > The name is Conard, which has an..interesting...significance in
 > French
 >
Chuckled, after looking it up.

 >> is spouting unadulterated BS. We also both know that to logically
 >> make a point we have to reason from axiomatic principles...
 >
 > Wrong.
 >
You are right, inductive reasoning is valid too. But, to my 
understanding, it compromises attainable knowledge by making the field 
of investigation infinitely large. Since in terms of deductive axiomatic 
reasoning, everything within a particular field of investigation is 
deduced from its axioms, a boundary becomes drawn and those axioms 
themselves have to originate from exogeneity. When on the other hand one 
reasons from an explicit premise, a

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

Robert Naiman — 2012-05-23T00:03:33

If one is serious about the "S" of BDS - sanctions, that is, penalties
enacted by governments - one has to recognize that there is no
prospect of any government in the world which has an economic
relationship with Israel being ready to enact a penalty on Israel
based on one-statism. South Africa and Europe recognize Israel - a
member of the United Nations - within its 1967 borders. So there is no
increased legitimacy for Israel based on such actions - South Africa
and Europe already recognize Israel as "legitimate" within its 1967
borders, and there is little prospect of changing that in the future
as far as anyone can see - even if we agreed that trying to change
that would be is a good idea if it were plausible (which, personally,
I am not at all convinced of.)

I don't agree at all with the claim that the settlement boycott is
meaningless, and as evidence for the contrary view I would advance the
fact that the Israeli government is quite hysterical about it, going
so far as to effectively ban Israelis fro

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

Joseph Catron — 2012-05-22T23:19:17

We've been having quite a good debate about this, in part because our

That's right! You're at U. KwaZulu-Natal. A lot of us in Gaza are very
happy with the recent developments there. I can't wait to read your
insider's account.

My concern with settlement boycotts, of which I'm not a complete fan, is
that they can inadvertently legitimize the ol' colonial regime as a whole
(which is why we see liberal Zionists, from Gush Shalom to Peter Beinart,
supporting them).

Settlement goods are a bit of a red herring anyway. Most West Bank
settlements function mainly as bedroom communities for '48, rather than
industrial zones.

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

Robert Naiman — 2012-05-22T23:01:48

Actually, that's explained in the article in a part that I didn't
include - follow the link. According to the article, the existing
European restrictions are easy to get around. What's at stake is a
clear label that would allow the final consumer to verify where the
commodity was actually produced, as opposed to where the company is
headquartered.

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Patrick Bond <pbond-83gXwcVijF7YkQIYctQFYw< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Re: South Africa to label settlement goods

Patrick Bond — 2012-05-22T22:55:28

We've been having quite a good debate about this, in part because our 
university just joined BDS basically by accident. An article's nearly 
ready on it, will send tomorrow.

But Bob, aren't Europe (and the UK) also requiring no-shit labeling from 
the West Bank?

Ciao,
Patrick

_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

South Africa to label settlement goods

Robert Naiman — 2012-05-22T22:52:07

Other countries could do this (clears throat.)

Israeli anger over S Africa bid to label West Bank settlement goods
Vita Bekker, The National (UAE), May 21, 2012
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/israeli-anger-over-s-africa-bid-to-label-west-bank-settlement-goods

Tel Aviv - The Israeli government lambasted an unprecedented move by
South Africa to label all products made in Jewish settlements in the
occupied West Bank before selling them.

The South African decision, should it be implemented, would hand a
considerable victory to a campaign by Palestinians and their
supporters to boycott products made in Jewish settlements.

The South African move would be the first time that any country forces
companies to inform consumers about which goods were produced in the
settlements.

Denmark said on Saturday that it may take a similar step and analysts
said other European Union countries may also follow suit, possibly
hurting Israel's diplomatic ties with western allies and staining
Israel's image amon

Re: Our penal system

2012-05-22T20:07:13

There are blogs and there are blogs. Some are outstanding. Say for example Juan Cole's. Or Matt Taibbi's. 


The blog is simply the current medium for the art of the essay. It is giving a lot of wonderful writers a way to communicate outside the print media, which is a wonderful thing -- both for the trees and for us. 


As for the penal system in the U.S. -- yes, it is a horror. Even more horrifying are the number of leftists who believe that people in prison deserve to be there. 


Joanna 

----- Original Message -----
http://whynationsfail.com/blog/2012/5/21/our-penal-system.html 

Very impressive indeed for a mere blog entry. 

LR 

_______________________________________________ 
pen-l mailing list 
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org 
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l 
_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

(Fwd) Economist pimps Hubbell, Summers,etc (Charles Ferguson)

Patrick Bond — 2012-05-22T20:05:02

  * Login with Facebook to see what your friends are reading
  * Enable Social Reading <javascript:void(0);>
  * i <javascript:void(0);>

Charles Ferguson <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-ferguson>


    Charles Ferguson <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-ferguson>

Director of the Wall Street documentary 'Inside Job'; Author of the 
forthcoming book, 'Predator Nation'

GET UPDATES FROM Charles Ferguson
Like <javascript:void(0);>
64


  The Sellout of the Ivory Tower, and the Crash of 2008 (Excerpt)

Posted: 05/22/2012 8:33 am

*/Re-printed from /Predator Nation: Corporate Criminals, Political 
Corruption, and the Hijacking of America 
<http://www.amazon.com/Predator-Nation-Corporate-Criminals-Corruption/dp/030795255X>/; 
Copyright © 2012 by Charles Ferguson. Published by Crown Business, a 
division of Random House, Inc./*

____________________________

Many people who saw my documentary film about the 2008 economic crisis, 
/Inside Job/, found that the most surprising, and disturbing, portion of

OC87

Louis Proyect — 2012-05-22T19:29:55

A review of a documentary about a guy suffering from depression, 
bipolar, OC, and Asperger's. He is also one of the directors.

http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/oc87/
_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

Our penal system

Lakshmi Rhone — 2012-05-22T19:19:26

http://whynationsfail.com/blog/2012/5/21/our-penal-system.html

Very impressive indeed for a mere blog entry.

LR
_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l

privatized space

Jim Devine — 2012-05-22T17:59:51

[to what extent is the private space industry simply resting in a
subsidized way on the shoulders of the NASA giant? how much credit
will these space "entrepreneurs" give to NASA?]

from SLATE:

The private company became the first in history to send a vessel to
the International Space Station.

By Rachael Levy | Posted Tuesday, May 22, 2012, at 10:31 AM ET

We have (privately-funded) lift-off!

California-based SpaceX made history early Tuesday morning when its
Falcon 9 rocket blasted off from Cape Canaveral, carrying an unmanned
vessel named Dragon into orbit and marking a new commercial era for
space exploration in the process.

[If further tests are successful,] The unmanned commercial supply
capsule will deliver its 1,000 pounds of cargo to the International
Space Station later this week. It is the first time that a private
company has sent a vessel to the station, a mission previously
reserved for only nations with major space programs, the Associated
Press explains.

"Falcon flew perfectly!!" billiona

Re: Why do nations fail? Hint: it starts with ‘Col’ and ends with ‘ism’

Louis Proyect — 2012-05-22T16:28:40

Yes, but it was Diamond's intent to translate the prose into another 
medium. Nobody ever thought that it was anything but a popularization of 
Guns, Steel and Germs.


The TV show was not about making such points. All it did was popularize 
the ideas contained in is book.


There is nothing sectarian about stating that Diamond either denies or 
does not understand imperialism. It is rather obvious.

_______________________________________________
pen-l mailing list
pen-l-FPEHb7Xf0XWG9Rqvk1bdOTe48wsgrGvP< at >public.gmane.org
https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l