gmane.recreation.dance.tango.tango-l

AUTO: John Sing/San Jose/IBM is speaking at IBM Conference in Berlin, returning on 5/26/12 (returning 05/26/2012)

John Sing — 2012-05-23T22:04:12


I am out of the office until 05/26/2012.

I will traveling on IBM business returning on 5/26/12.

My manager is:  Pete Potosky/Rochester/IBM,  phone:1-720-396-3347


Note: This is an automated response to your message  "Tango-L Digest, Vol
74, Issue 7" sent on 05/23/2012 10:20:15.

This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

Re: chacarera skirts

Trini y Sean (PATangoS — 2012-05-23T16:06:14

Hi Tiffo,

At the weekly milonga that we host, the chacarera is played after the second milonga tanda of the evening, and we just prefer to play one chacarera.  So the flow is

milonga tanda
cortina
chacarera
cortina

It works out well, and people have learned to expect it.   Sometimes the DJ will announce it during the cortina, but people also have fun rushing up onto the floor and joining in when they hear the music.  It's all very light-hearted.  It fits in with the relaxed atmosphere of our milonga, which is free and takes place at a bar.  The other weekly milonga, which is a little more formal, does their chararera at the very end, after La Cumparsita.  It's a fun way to end the evening and start the clean-up process.

Argentine teachers like it when a tango community is interested enough in their culture that they learn the chacarera.  There's interest in learning more folkloric dances, as well.  

Part of the appeal of the chacarera is the flirtiness of it, which was emphasized to us when the

flor de tango a great radio show on the web

gaby luna — 2012-05-22T16:38:48

http://www.radiocasbah.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=192&Itemid=47

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

Alexis Cousein — 2012-05-22T14:44:15

 > the cortina is for clearing the floor not for dancing
 > that's why it's not tango usually rock n roll.
They weren't even _on_ the floor; I'd advise not to
jump to conclusions without reading carefully.

And there are actually BsAs  milongas --certainly barrio
ones for people who're there with friends and family-- where
people will happily dance part of the cortinas. I was told
that was unchanged two weeks ago, so unless the sky suddenly
caved in there's a lot of overgeneralisation in that comment.

Not _everything_ in BsAs is one of the staunchest of El Beso milongas
(or wherever it may have moved to recently, depending on the
former El Beso milonga you pick).

To "zutalors": No, that's not the atmosphere the codigas are meant
to foster. Which doesn't mean I agree with your general statements;
it's not just because some codigas are old and from BsAs that they
may not be useful outside of BsAs and now.

Some are, some aren't, and some are actually more or less
neogtiated by the dancers and it's futile to

Re: chacarera skirts

Alberto Gesualdi — 2012-05-21T14:12:46

well... how is chacarera related to tango ...
 
 
not in the way that it could be considered. We have to remember, what was happening with tango dance, in Buenos Aires , on the 60`s and 70`s . It was gone, except for a few places , where milongueros and milongueras gathered to have some dancing.
 
as a school of dance, there were many so called "Peñas" , places where people take lessons to dance, or gathered for a social encounter. Buenos Aires used to receive, and still does, many people from the provinces.
 
so , the santiagueños, from the province of Santiago del Estero, has their "Peñas", the tucumanos from Tucuman, their Peñas, etc..
 
On the early 80`s , since the tango was having some comeback, after Tango argentino at Le trottoir de Pairs, and later the boom of Tango Argentino on Broadway, some of this Peñas of folklore, introduce some tango music.
 
Also some pupils of folklore like Carlos Rivarola, and other young persons -like "Los Ocampo , he is a formerly dancer of El Chucaro and Norm

Re: Chacarera

Alberto Gesualdi — 2012-05-21T13:56:19

yes , a beautiful chacarera, really.
 
argentine zamba, is with "Z"like Zulu , samba with"s" is the brasilian dance .
 
argentine zamba, an icon , sung by "Los chalchaleros" zamba de mi esperanza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98I_nZ7JPtU
 
the greatest zamba dancer of ARgentina, El chucaro, with Norma Viola , his counterpart.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMDsflpl-Kc&feature=related
 
--.
brasilian samba , as danced on carnival parades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4a-qbFMAAk&feature=related
 
 
warm re


________________________________
De: robin tara <robinctara< at >gmail.com>
Para: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990< at >hotmail.com> 
CC: Tango-L List <tango-l< at >mit.edu> 
Enviado: domingo, 20 de mayo de 2012 12:35
Asunto: Re: [Tango-L] Chacarera

A beautiful chacarera -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmGJ6u6lws

and in another related video, a samba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-33DO-jy-34&feature=relmfu

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Sergio Vandekier <
sergiovandekier990< at >hotmail.com> wrote:

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

2012-05-22T00:34:14

Ah .. would that it were only 30 seconds...
My wife's friend, while in BA, took the trouble to time this phenomenon 
- and it was 1m20s before the last couple stopped talking and used the 
dance floor to actually dance.

Locally, we have a number of exponents of the custom, and often they 
find it necessary to talk beyond a minute while dancers negotiate the 
resultant chicane.. Far from making any effort to be aware of the 
inconvenience they cause, an air of studied indifference is de rigeur. 
It adds to the authenticity, it seems. On one occasion I saw  this 
carried to the extreme, by a particularly staunch adherent spending the 
entire track, hands in pockets, engaged in conversation.

It would be nice to see adherence to a custom of using a little common 
sense.

Roger Edgecombe
Melbourne, Australia.

ATTENZION: Florence/Italy: 'Tango with a View!' STARTSLATER

2012-05-22T09:24:02

We are really unhappy to inform You, that the city of Florence has postponed the beginning of the 'Tango with a View!'
at the Florentine cathedral!

un abrazo
Patricia Muller

Buenos Aires - Milonga Codes

Sergio Vandekier — 2012-05-22T06:07:24

Every code has an important reason to exist, some times more than one; that reason may only exist in Argentina and in this case the code is not understood or necessary abroad .  If you are a lady who comes to the milonga alone, you have to be perceived as unattached for  men to ask you to dance.  You show this condition by entering the milonga alone or in company of other women, greeting briefly some friends, men and ladies; a kiss on the cheek is no problem. You sit alone or in company of other ladies. You do not talk to a particular man. You accept the dance with cabeceo and stand up waiting for the man to come close to your table or walk towards him and meet halfway. When a tango ends and while you wait for the next one to start, this is the only chance you have to chat with that partic
 ular man. The conversation could be an invitation to a cup of coffee after the dance or about the weather.  In case of a date, both the man and the woman wish to keep the "unattached condit!
 ion" (for the time being) an

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

Sergey Kazachenko — 2012-05-22T03:51:52

5. The song starts, about half of the couples start dancing, the other
half is still chatting. Navigation is (usually) not an issue, but
hearing the music over the voices is.

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

Lois Donnay — 2012-05-22T02:28:54

Great subject.  A few other things I note:
Milongas are at different times here - not starting at 11PM!  They are also
shorter.  When I DJ, I choose 3 song tandas, because 4 is too much for all
but the best dancers, and also makes it impossible to dance with lots
of people in 3 or 4 hours.

All these BA codigos should be introduced when the community is ready for
it, not be forced on people.  After all, this should be enjoyable! Being
thrown into a new cultural milieu can be exciting, or miserable when nobody
is comfortable.  After dancing tango worldwide for 16 years now, I believe
there is no milonga in the world like a Buenos Aires milonga nor will ever
be. That's why I go back every year.  And sit and commisserate with the
other US teachers and complain that there are no milongas anywhere else in
the world like a Buenos Aires milonga. :)

Lois
Minneapolis

chatting between songs, was: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

Robert Dodier — 2012-05-22T02:21:14

Shahrukh,

thanks for your interesting observations. It's always nice to hear
from people in different places.

My $0.02 about talking before the dance begins is based on my
experiences in North America, at regular milongas and festivals.
What I've seen is that festivals have bigger crowds and more
social energy, and that just makes people chatty. What I think I
see is that people are ardently communicating nonverbally while
the dance goes on, then when the song ends, they keep on
communicating -- they just switch to a verbal mode. Then it takes
a while for everybody to switch back to nonverbal mode.

At regular milongas, there typically just isn't the critical mass of
social energy to spark the conversation. Most people just go
back to dancing as soon as the music starts. But sometimes
people do get chatty, which, as a DJ, I take as a very good sign.

As to what people should do, it seems like "when in Rome" is
enough advice.

All the best,

Robert Dodier
Boulder, CO

Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

Tango 22 — 2012-05-22T00:42:45

On 22/05/2012, at 2:25 AM, tango-l-request< at >mit.edu wrote:

From: Shahrukh Merchant <shahrukh< at >shahrukhmerchant.com>

As always, thoughtful and considered comments from Shahrukh.  A few comments:

2. Use of Tandas and Cortinas.
For those who are old enough to remember the '60's (ahem), live dance music, other than "pub rock", at least in Aus., was always played in brackets (tandas), usually of three songs, with a cortina at the end of each bracket.  The tanda tradition is quite natural for us, though I have found that studio ballroom parties seem to have foregone the tradition.  it was revived by Tango and Latin.

3. Table seating.
We much prefer table seating, for the sociability, though we tend to set tables of 6, rather than the smaller settings often seen in Buenos Aires.  Neither do we escort people to tables or separate singles and couples.  People tend to sit in groups, with friends.

4. Occasional tandas of other dances.
Agree that occasional other dance music can lighten the night.  we tend to select

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

David Leache — 2012-05-21T23:53:07

In BsAs one that dances to the cortina is called an "Idiot" the cortina is for clearing the floor not for dancing that's why it's not tango usually rock n roll.

Sent from my iPad

On May 21, 2012, at 6:21 AM, "zut< at >zutalors.fr" <zut< at >zutalors.fr> wrote:

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside BuenosAires(WAS chacarera skirts)

Christian Lüthen — 2012-05-21T19:15:41


Sorry, but I witnessed the same regularly in Buenos Aires just a month ago! Argentinians, not tourists! 

"collisision" = violence *never* is a solution! Neither in tango, nor in politics, nor in general social behaviour! Period! 

Christian






.

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires(WAS chacarera skirts)

David Leache — 2012-05-21T18:50:10

What a lot of leaders in the US don't understand is in BsAs when the floor starts to move everyone moves. What I see here is some idiot standing and chatting as the rest of the floor starts to dance. Best solution collision....to get him moving.
David

Sent from my iPad

On May 20, 2012, at 9:33 PM, Shahrukh Merchant <shahrukh< at >shahrukhmerchant.com> wrote:


_______________________________________________
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Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires

2012-05-21T13:21:05

You raised some interesting ideas, Shahrukh.

The world owes a debt of gratitude to Argentina for its gift of
the music,
dance and culture of Tango. Like a child raised in a loving
family, Tango
has become strong, left the home of its parents and gone out into
the
world. Tango is now French, Finnish, Japanese, Chinese, Australian
and just
about every other nationality. Though never denying its roots in
Argentina,
each country adds elements of its own culture to the dance. Tango
is strong
enough to accept such diversity and still retain the passionate
core which
gives it its unmistakable identity.

If we try to deny the diversity that Tango is absorbing, by
slavishly
adhering to the customs of its origins, then we are in danger of
turning it
into the stultified and grotesque parody of human passion that
International Tango (also called Ballroom Tango, Tango de salon)
has
become.

There is a milonga in Paris, where dancers find on the tables
sheets of
paper containing the organiser's preferred codegas, reminis

Re: Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

Shahrukh Merchant — 2012-05-21T04:33:15

In response to my post about Buenos Aires Milonga traditions used 
outside Buenos Aires, someone wrote to me privately about the Buenos 
Aires custom of talking through the first 30 seconds or so after the end 
of a Tango, before starting to dance the next one.

I've paraphrased and edited his email to preserve anonymity of names and 
places ...

In his community, he says, the "local Tango cartel" bullies the rank and 
file into talking with ones partner during the start of each Tango, a 
practice which the writer dismisses as an archaic custom leftover from a 
bygone era of "dueños and chaperones." His local self-proclaimed Tango 
Gods who favour this practice, he continues, "have been known to hold up 
the line of dance for 6-8 bars of music while everyone else tries to 
navigate around them," and all it really is, is part of the marketing of 
their classes "to be 'Oh so BA!'" ...

Well, certainly I have been guilty of the same behaviour myself, and 
since I'm not trying to sell classes or any Tango produ

Zapateo

Don Klein — 2012-05-20T18:24:39

Although it might border on heresy, I suggest using steps from Appalachian Clogging.  Then there'shttp://www.aquifolklore.com.ar/Espanol/videomalambo.htm   a good site for chacarera, gato, and more

Don

Buenos Aires Milonga traditions outside Buenos Aires (WAS chacarera skirts)

Shahrukh Merchant — 2012-05-20T17:35:32

It's not, other than (a) being Argentine (but from the provinces rather 
than urban) and (b) that it's played at milongas in Buenos Aires for 
variety.


I assume you mean that you dislike that it's played at Tango events 
OUTSIDE Argentina, right? In Argentina, it's not seen as out of place at 
all, and the floor is always full when a chacarera is played (which is 
not always the case when a salsa is played, for example).

If you generalize this observation, there are many aspects of milongas 
in Buenos Aires that, strictly speaking, are not essential to emulate in 
order to dance Tango, but which has nonetheless evolved to be part of 
the mainstream concept of "milonga" outside Buenos Aires and Argentina 
as well.

In rough order of "Buenos Aires traditions most often emulated outside 
Buenos Aires" to least-often-emulated, we have:

1. Use of a popular subset of "old guard" Tangos (and Milongas and Valses).

There are many many more perfectly danceable ones, and while some DJs do 
experiment with those,

Re: Chacarera

robin tara — 2012-05-20T15:35:17

A beautiful chacarera -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMmGJ6u6lws

and in another related video, a samba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-33DO-jy-34&feature=relmfu

On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Sergio Vandekier <
sergiovandekier990< at >hotmail.com> wrote: