gmane.os.plan9.general

Re: mk: the `D' flag

Anthony Sorace — 2013-06-19T17:51:19

I can't find a record of it quickly ("mk" and "D" don't lend themselves to
helpful searches), but I feel like we had this conversation about a year
ago, no?

Summary, from my memory:

Some people would prefer it, others not. Keeping intermediaries and
failed targets around is often helpful for debugging. Keep in mind mk
can be used for things other than binaries. The cost of leaving things
around you don't want is often/usually higher than the cost of
removing things you do; the inverse is uncommon. These are all
reasons to prefer the current behavior. Add to that the high cost of
changing a default with decades of precedence, and it seems pretty
darned unlikely that mk's behavior will change here.

Anthony

havetsc on terminal

2013-06-18T23:39:04

context is the line from archmp.c:

- if(cpuserver && m->havetsc)
+ if(m->havetsc)
  archacpi.fastclock = tscticks;

does anyone know why tsc is only used on cpuserver kernel?

Re: mk: the `D' flag

Anthony Sorace — 2013-06-19T17:51:19

I can't find a record of it quickly ("mk" and "D" don't lend themselves to
helpful searches), but I feel like we had this conversation about a year
ago, no?

Summary, from my memory:

Some people would prefer it, others not. Keeping intermediaries and
failed targets around is often helpful for debugging. Keep in mind mk
can be used for things other than binaries. The cost of leaving things
around you don't want is often/usually higher than the cost of
removing things you do; the inverse is uncommon. These are all
reasons to prefer the current behavior. Add to that the high cost of
changing a default with decades of precedence, and it seems pretty
darned unlikely that mk's behavior will change here.

Anthony

havetsc on terminal

2013-06-18T23:39:04

context is the line from archmp.c:

- if(cpuserver && m->havetsc)
+ if(m->havetsc)
  archacpi.fastclock = tscticks;

does anyone know why tsc is only used on cpuserver kernel?

Re: mk: the `D' flag

Friedrich Psiorz — 2013-06-18T14:05:52

I wouldn't. It doesn't make sense to me to delete the old, working
executable of my program just because I messed up when I made a change.

Am 18.06.2013 15:50, schrieb dexen deVries:

mk: the `D' flag

dexen deVries — 2013-06-18T13:50:35

in mk(1), why is the `D' flag (if the recipe exits with a non-null status, the 
target is deleted) optional, rather than default?

i can see why it makes little sense with together `V' flag, but for non-V 
rules, targeting plain files, i'd like it by default.

Re: Win starting rc?

Matthew Veety — 2013-06-18T13:30:25


Ubuntu has a lot of shit that bash has to run before it starts to "improve the user experience."

Re: Win starting rc?

Charles Forsyth — 2013-06-18T09:04:24

On 17 June 2013 20:40, Derek Carter (aka goozbach)
<goozbach< at >friocorte.com>wrote:


When I switched to /bin/rc on Ubuntu, I found that even the
Applications>Terminal windows appeared quickly,
compared to whatever shell was being used by default. Of course, with both
9term and rc, windows appear immediately.

Re: 9n

erik quanstrom — 2013-06-17T19:48:34

why bother?  because the whining is not important to me, but
plan 9 is.  so there can be some trollish commentary.  i can't think
of any group with more than a trivial number of folks, where
everyone was equally pleasant, all the time.

as a general rule, we do not know everone's constraints, of time
legal agreement, one's personal feelings about what is worthy
to be released, etc.  so it can be presumptious to say
one simply lacks "spine" for not releasing code.

i do understand the frustration.   there are things i would
like to have access to.  but when i balance this with the idea
that there may be good reasons why it is impossible, and the
idea that other folks are independent agents, who owe me
nothing, i realize i can't reasonably complain.

- erik

Re: 9n

Kurt H Maier — 2013-06-17T19:47:47

I'm not a programmer; however, we here at 9front Technologies have
deeveloped a new development paradigm we call "trust-based egalitarian
avocational modular wide-area outscaled refactoring kultur" -- abbreviated
T.E.A.M.W.O.R.K.  You can see the results of this new methodology at
http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/list

khm

Re: Win starting rc?

Derek Carter (aka goozbach — 2013-06-17T19:40:09

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On 6/11/13 1218, marius eriksen wrote:

This is what I use in my dotfiles to turn off the "fancy term" stuff
for use in Win/9term.

https://github.com/goozbach/dot_files/blob/master/_profile.d/95-plan9.sh


It undoes my colorful terminal prompt;  re-aliases git, tree, lc, and
grep to remove color and make more 9term/plumber friendly; and
overrides the cd command to update acme's working directory.

There are probably a couple of additional things I could make it do
but I've not yet ran into other issues.

BTW I'm still using BASH as my $SHELL, I should go 'whole hog' and try
rc, but baby steps... baby steps...

- --
Derek
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Re: 9n

2013-06-17T19:33:44

That's how this all started.

-sl

Re: 9n

Skip Tavakkolian — 2013-06-17T19:15:54

all i see from you are pronouncements. show us your code.



On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Kurt H Maier <khm-9< at >intma.in> wrote:

Re: 9n

Nemo — 2013-06-17T19:06:52

You should ask if anyone else did that before doing it, instead of saying
they are un-spined life forms.
Don't you have a tricorder?

On Jun 17, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Kurt H Maier <khm-9< at >intma.in> wrote:

Re: 9n

Kurt H Maier — 2013-06-17T18:40:19


There is no Hague Convention specification that you must maintain code
just because you let other people see it.  Don Knuth springs to mind as
someone who is capable of releasing software and not regarding this as
some kind of Hemingwayan Albatross.

It is annoying to have to replicate work someone else has done merely
because they lack the spine to release it.

khm

Re: 9n

2013-06-17T18:20:56

There is code that is neither secret nor published. Code that does "the"
or "some" job for the writer but that the writer does not want to
maintain (for a public audience). I have the example for kerTeX: I use
RISK, my own framework, that is not a precious proprietary code
with lots of cutting edge and research features, but simply something
that does the job for me and that I didn't want to support for
others. It went publkic by side effect (and the support will be
limited to kerTeX use).

Re: 9n

Jiten Pathy — 2013-06-17T18:23:06

Thanks for clearing that up. I haven't looked at the code, but the
changes in the paper looked interesting.

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Nemo <nemo.mbox< at >gmail.com> wrote:

Re: 9n

balaji — 2013-06-17T18:08:10

now we know why this society may exist after all... those who do
something actually get pissed on. why bother even telling the masses
when they know what to expect in return.

Re: 9n

erik quanstrom — 2013-06-17T18:01:08

and usually one gets pissed on for going to the effort.

- erik

Re: 9n

Aram Hăvărneanu — 2013-06-17T16:54:18

But it would be zero effort if code wouldn't be secret in the first place.

--
Aram Hăvărneanu

Re: 9n

Kurt H Maier — 2013-06-17T16:53:21

It works better when a lot of code goes into making code public.

khm