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RE: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Ratnendra Pandey — 2012-05-22T06:39:47







Tarun, 
Let me postpone the discussion on Google/YouTube/Net-Neutrality matters and head
straight to reply  your question on free-speech and internet.

As I have written on this forum so many times before, free speech is not an internet only issue.
So, I am puzzled when people on this forum associate Internet with free speech as if speech in India is free everywhere but for internet.

 I have repeatedly 
written that  speech cannot be protected online if
it is not is not protected offline. In other words,  expecting Internet to be an island of free speech
while rest of the media in India  is choked with government placed restriction and  controls
is hoping against hope.

Same thing with Property rights. If a physical property is not safe, the safety of Intellectual Property is less likely. 

We (the Indian people) are unfortunate to have been born in a country whose constitution was written by
people who lacked vision and could not see anything beyond government controls -- the people of mediocre
cali

Re: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Banibrata Dutta — 2012-05-22T05:39:44


Thanks for the article. It was an insightful, nice-n-light read.



True while it may be, still isn't very comforting. It is like saying
controversies are natural. BTW, on a lighter note, some might enjoy this --
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/who-runs-the-world/
Ran into it while searching for some info-graphic ideas for some of my
bread-n-butter work.



I can live with that, but do encourage folks to see movies like "Food,
Inc.".

Vickram

Re: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Tarun Dua — 2012-05-21T19:27:09

Dear Ratnendra,

With due respect AT&T is not a significant player in India while
Google & Youtube are. No one can accuse Google of supporting Net
Neutrality in India while tying up with certain broadband operators to
popularize youtube with a speed up for watching certain sporting
event(s) in the past.

ISPs in India don't enjoy an ability to arm-twist someone like Google
in India to deny them access to their users or throttle their
bandwidth in specific. Most ISPs are sufficiently in awe of the
transit cartel of the big 3 to give free peering to anyone to cut down
significantly on their bandwidth transit expenses as long as it
doesn't increase their lawful interception expenses. Which is what
makes peering at NIXIs tick.
And Google makes it really simpler by peering at well connected PoPs.

But I digress, what have net-neutrality & Google & Youtube got to do
with a thread with 'Internet free speech' in it ?

As far as I can see Youtube has a fairly poor record of protecting free speech.

Regards
-Tarun

On

Re: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Banibrata Dutta — 2012-05-21T18:38:03

Please help me understand, as to how is youtube a consumer of bandwidth
(for which it does not want to pay) ? Google / youtube consume bandwidth
for synchronizing content between their main mother servers and CDN, and
pay commercial rates for that. Consumers, i.e. people who view content on
youtube pay for the bandwidth they consume in downloading content from
Google, while being merrily subjected to 'Fair Usage policies'. What
googles of the world are fighting against are unfair right-of-passage
excesses, which are being levied to make their offering less
viable/attractive.

Online video sites have helped increase consumer bandwidth demand,
including enterprise bandwidth demand, phenomenally / exponentially. Now is
that supposed to be a bad thing ? Telcos and cablecos are anti net
neutrality for a completely different reason and i.e. because of the fact
that they are increasingly becoming bit-pipes, unable to get a share of the
"content" (either in form of paid-for content itself, or ad revenues) pie
leadi

RE: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Ratnendra Pandey — 2012-05-21T14:50:38

Suresh, Add one more to your list of motivation:

         Many heavy consumers of bandwidth like Google and Youtube who do not want to pay for the bandwidth to the providers like AT&T have been behind fancy ideas like net neutrality.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

From: suresh-psnYtti16QOsTnJN9+BGXg< at >public.gmane.org
To: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:25:27 +0530
Subject: RE: [india-gii] Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

I love a good conspiracy theory when I see one but we’re looking at developments that are distinct, and driven by distinct motivations 1.       IP lobbies looking to cut down on copyright theft2.       Various governments that don’t want ICANN in the picture for one reason or the other  From: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org [mailto:india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Vickram Crishna
Sent: 21 May 2012 13:17
To: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org
Subject: Re:

Re: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-21T10:11:15

The 'conspiracy' angle comes up because it happens that all these events are taking place in consonance. What can one make of the fact that the former liberty-oriented (for themselves, of course) democracies are at the forefront of creating a legal framework for repression and suppression of all concerted opposition? 

Not even in the days of McCarthy (who was, it must be admitted, just an opportunist and a patsy very convenient for the very same hawks that Eisenhower - President Eisenhower, former Gen Eisenhower, an army bloke that anyone could be forgiven for imagining was a hawk himself - characterised as the military-industrial complex) has simplicity taken on such dimensions. 

But it really isn't as wide-ranging as all that. Just like life itself only needs a piddling few, mostly really simple, algorithms for all this complexity to become real, so does global domination not need more than a few to act in concert. This article from the New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-

RE: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Suresh Ramasubramanian — 2012-05-21T07:55:27

I love a good conspiracy theory when I see one but we're looking at
developments that are distinct, and driven by distinct motivations
 
1.       IP lobbies looking to cut down on copyright theft
2.       Various governments that don't want ICANN in the picture for one
reason or the other
 
 
From: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org [mailto:india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Vickram Crishna
Sent: 21 May 2012 13:17
To: india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [india-gii] Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not
alone)
 
As Kristofferson once sang (back in the days of flower power and no more
reds under every bed) "You've been reading my mail". 
 
Vickram
http://communicall.wordpress.com
http://vvcrishna.wordpress.com
 

  _____  

From: Banibrata Dutta <banibrata.dutta-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org>
To: India Gii <india-gii-oOvZX6Rv2P8< at >public.gmane.org>; india-gii <india-gii-exipcMZXGhH9nmKIgjYY/w< at >public.gmane.org> 
Sent: M

Re: Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-21T07:47:11

As Kristofferson once sang (back in the days of flower power and no more reds under every bed) "You've been reading my mail". 
 
Vickram
http://communicall.wordpress.com
http://vvcrishna.wordpress.com



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Article: Internet free speech (we are certainly not alone)

Banibrata Dutta — 2012-05-21T07:35:35

We are certainly not alone in dealing with what seems like an international
coordinated Balkanization of the internet.
The conspiracy theorist (dominant gene) in me, thinks that invisible hand
of the big-5 is behind this massive coordinated global move to clamp-down
on free speech. Something I shared few months back in another post, as how
many of these policy changes (being brought about, or being suggested),
seem to be linked. The food-security bill, linked to easing-entry of the
BT/GM seed giants, and making sure that they have their wicked-ways, which
require "containing" detractors. These corporate giants have always been
using international geo-political clout & dynamics to their advantage, and
free-speech clampdown works to their advantage.

Link:
www.telecomasia.net/blog/content/days-numbered-free-speech-internet?TonyPoulos

regards,
B Dutta
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Re: ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-18T07:38:58

Thanks, Anivar.

Not having any claims to being a legal expert, I still strain to see any hint where this order even purports to or hints at an instruction to the named parties (yes, the order is specific to certain ISPs, which is definitely peculiar - is this really the complete list of primary ISPs in the country?) to actually block websites. In fact, it restrains them from "infringing the applicant's copyright by... allowing others...using different mediums [spooky, that one! even the spirit world is being invoked]...internet services". 

I second Suresh's interpretation, regarding the competence of ISPs. Since we have seen so much noise and fury in this forum as well as many others about the intellectual competence and probity of our legislators, it is also quite interesting that one or more of the ISPs have sitting members of Parliament as ceo/chairperson. 

And, in the interests of research-based discovery of the truth, may I say that this case appears to heartily support the findings of the IIMA Goo

Re: ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Anivar Aravind — 2012-05-18T05:40:13

This is the Chennai High Court Order
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxi2TzVXul5ZUl9EclRQZXlRdVdUb3c2S3EwSk1Udw/edit?pli=1



On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Vickram Crishna <v1clist-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA< at >public.gmane.org>wrote:

Re: ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-18T05:33:20

From the report in today's Economic Times, it seems that the court order was transmitted physically to the ISPs in question - MTNL, Reliance Comm and Airtel, and unnamed others. It would naturally be necessary to read the impugned order to see exactly what was sought to be blocked. If the court order itself is illegal, it will become necessary for a higher court to issue a correction and hopefully a reprimand. I believe there are legal sector terminologies for such actions. 

However, looking ahead, I suspect there are strong reasons to believe that the judicial sector needs some powerful education to understand the features of the online world, and perhaps there is a business opportunity here for a sufficiently far-seeing legal focused advisory service. I know that the recent exchange wrt the Rules under the IT Act was educative for most everyone on this list, and cannot help but think that it might have been instructive even for some judges (I say so not knowing whether the suggestion that some judges are

Re: ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Suresh Ramasubramanian — 2012-05-17T13:20:16

This is film producers trying to stop their movies getting pirated, and isps too incompetent to stick to that mandate

Re: ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Siddhesh Joglekar — 2012-05-17T13:07:50

I smell political undercurrents here. India will become a quasi-china at
this rate. Torrentz.eu for instance is a torrent search engine as far as I
know, banning torrentz.eu is like banning google because it shows wrong
links in a sense.

I expect much more to be done over the next few months in the name of the
crackdown on 'piracy'

---
*Siddhesh Joglekar*
Cell - 9930073699



On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Sriram Karra <karra.etc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

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Re: ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Sriram Karra — 2012-05-17T10:03:29




Pardon my naiveté, but I wonder... what constitute an acceptable "take
down" in law? Can one change the URL, rewrite a few paragraphs, change the
fonts and color? Will that constitute a new post? I mean, the notice is not
a gag order, I suppose?
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ISPs Blocks Vimeo, DailyMotion & All Major Torrent Sites In India Following John Doe Order

Anivar Aravind — 2012-05-17T08:33:34

Toady is internet freedom day . But in India it seems #indiablocks day

http://www.medianama.com/2012/05/223-airtel-blocks-vimeo-dailymotion-all-major-torrent-sites-in-india/

http://www.medianama.com/2012/05/223-isp-wise-list-of-blocked-sites-indiablocks/


Yesterday Blogger Vidyut kale got a take down notice for a post exposing
corruption
http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/super-blogger-and-friend-vidyut-kale-gets-a-take-down-notice-for-exposing-corruption-stopitrules/



Anivar

More from the Thingernet

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-17T07:30:56

Electric Imp Will Connect Everything to the Internet 
POPULAR SCIENCE - NEW TECHNOLOGY, SCIENCE NEWS, THE FUTURE NOW | MAY 17, 2012
http://pulse.me/s/9k1rz
In my future house, I want a refrigerator that will tell me its contents via Wi-Fi, so I'll be able to check whether I need extra butter when I’m at the market. I want a lamp that will turn on when it senses sunset, so I won’t have to adjust my automatic timers; I want a garden-watering system that will gauge whether my tomato plants are thirsty; and I want an outdoor rain/hail/snow sensor so I can make better weather spotter reports. The Internet of Things promises to bring me this world, and now there’s a cheap, customizable platform that could make it happen.
Electric Imp came out today, promising to connect any electronic device to the Internet and help you customize your life. The cards can be installed in almost any device, using circuit boards Imp sells, and apparently the company is also working with device manufacturers to start adding na

Re: A little light: change of topic

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-08T07:00:24




However, it opens up the possibility of relatively cost and maintenance free interconnectivity between nodes, even farflung rural nodes, becoming part of the overall mix, a vital part, since it tends towards inclusive coverage, far more than fibre can. Within the node, it promises low cost end-user devices, with blindingly fast burst type connects characterising the nature of the network. 



Given the enormous bandwidth, I do not see it being much of a barrier to incorporate sophisticated identifiers, headers, or dodging algorithms, to keep a message sufficiently unique, so that senders within the same network can operate simultaneously. 


And a funding model that faces the reality of donations-based resources being perfectly acceptable, that goes where present markets-based funding cannot and does not reach without fundamentally altering the game, and taking it out of the reach of local players. 

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Re: A little light: change of topic

Kiritkumar Lathia — 2012-05-04T07:29:33

Thanks Vickram.

Indeed quite a lot of research is ongoing in this field but most are
looking at it for NFC applications since you need line-of-sight (no
physical elements block the light). The environmental problems like fog or
dust which scatters light may be overcome. However, I think it will be
sometime before we fiind a solution for general rural communications and
radio-waves is the only know technology today hence the "spectrum scarcity"
as most applications move to wireless world.

NFC with low power is being widely researched as possible bottle-neck
breaker since that way the same spectrum can be used used again and again.
think of the FM radio broadcasting: small low power and hence the same
frequency canbe used again without causing interference.

For the current technologies, the micro/pico cells are the answer but of
course require more infrastructure CAPEX.

Best wishes,
Kirit

On 4 May 2012 08:23, Vickram Crishna <v1clist-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

_______________________

A little light: change of topic

Vickram Crishna — 2012-05-04T06:23:33

Given the heat and dust (and surprising shards of light) that has marked this list over the past few days, I thought it might be interesting to review a piece of technology that Arun had championed at least ten years ago, when we were researching viable technologies to provide enhanced communication capabilities in rural areas, and came up against the top-down mandated restrictions on usage of RF. 
 
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-05/high-speed-data-link-made-laser-pointers-works-where-wi-fi-wont

[Wi-Fi isn’t always practical--in places like hospitals or labs, for instance, where radio transmitters are prohibited--and physical USB cables can be slow and cumbersome as well. So engineers at National Taipei University of Technology have built a low-cost, easy to implement optical setup that can beam data across rooms twice as fast as USB 2.0 technology using conventional laser pointers.
The simple setup costs only about $600 to build and employs the green and red laser pointers typical to t

3G News

Manasi Dash — 2012-05-03T07:15:04

Bharti Airtel on Wednesday reported a 28 per cent drop in March quarter net
profit, attributing it to* 3G licence fee payment, high interest costs,
foreign exchange fluctuations and higher tax liabilities*. (
http://newspolitan.com/forum/art/world/india/GQ2TOMBSGU6UCVCC_4170259)

Bharti Airtel Ltd, India’s largest telecom service provider by subscribers
and revenues, reported a net profit of Rs1,011 crore for the third quarter
of the financial year 2011-12, down 22% over the same quarter last year. (
http://www.livemint.com/2012/02/08091936/Bharti-Airtel-Q3-net-profit-fa.html
)
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