http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss hourly 1 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://gmane.org/img/gmane-25t.png http://gmane.org http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6920 <pre>Victor, the term for what you just did is "non sequitur" I have no particular disagreements with the points you are making which are interesting. They are not directly related to the discussion at hand. The only way to consider them connected would be to blatantly ignore what I or others are saying and respond only to something else we are not saying. Functional societies do not come to exist if people do not meet each other in some middle-ground where they can accept terms. It's quite ironic that you would reply to my private e-mail about your privacy disclaimer by sending to the entire list and quoting my e-mail. The essence of my point was: to achieve effective discourse with other people, it helps to acknowledge their views and feelings. It is nice to be comfortable in and of yourself, but if you refuse to allow any vulnerability or any amount of concession, then you will miss out on many of the benefits that come from developing more productive relationships with others. You may be as you wish on you</pre> Aaron Wolf 2013-05-17T17:13:27 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6919 <pre>Hi Aaron, I appreciate your comments and feedback. Not letting anything steal your peace is a simple yet life changing concept. I don't believe in a notion/narrative of "respect". It is possible to take offense to everything, every element in this life. Fire hydrants are there to break your knee caps, pigeons, rain, wind, sunshine are there to ruin your day... I am that I am and my disclaimer makes sense for reasons that are known to me and may not be known to those who speak out against it. As you read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory And other topics that descend and ascend from it, I would be curious about what interesting and surprising things you may find. Please feel free to share with me. Here are some additional food for processing: We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. ~ Aristotle You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. ~ Marcus Aurelius As far as men go, it is not what th</pre> Victor Shamanovsky 2013-05-17T16:48:39 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6918 <pre>I'm not going to get in on the G+ debate because it has become kind of ridiculous, but I did want to chime in that I, too, hate that email signature and think its pointless and dumb. - Boris On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Mark O' Cúlar &lt;mc&lt; at &gt;itison.net&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Boris Mindzak 2013-05-17T16:43:12 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6917 <pre>hmmmm.. These principles run strong in these threads lately! It is interesting how broad the definition of Free Culture can be. I think it is too broad now really. For me it is about the access to cultural works and the license to build upon such work whether open or closed in the first place. I support FOSS but my toolset as a creative requires more than that, I think this is the case with most people. I would like to see platforms be successful on the web which are really open and better than what a corporate can provide for free. But this seems like an hugh ask at the moment. Commercial platforms / software companies have people working for them who get well paid for their time. Innovation is rewarded and put under lock and key. A critical mass of users understanding the benefits of an open web platform / a network is required for most people to even stop and consider what they are signing up for. Think about it... who even reads the T&amp;C's and how many people actually care even if they know that they are</pre> Mark O' Cúlar 2013-05-17T15:52:25 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6916 <pre>Hi Aaron, "Don't let anything steal your peace". I learned that from my yoga teachers. Try yoga. Thanks, http://shamanovsky.com http://bit.ly/tickletickletickle http://www.last.fm/music/GIGGA Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. On May 17, 2013, at 9:08, Aaron Wolf &lt;wolftune&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Victor Shamanovsky 2013-05-17T13:26:44 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6915 <pre>Victor, you could easily remove your disclaimer from e-mails you send to this list (the disclaimer makes no sense for these public postings anyway). -- Aaron Wolf wolftune.com On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Victor Shamanovsky &lt; victor.shamanovsky&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Aaron Wolf 2013-05-17T13:08:50 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6914 <pre>Thank you for your advise :) Thanks, http://shamanovsky.com http://bit.ly/tickletickletickle http://www.last.fm/music/GIGGA Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. On May 17, 2013, at 0:17, Samuel Klein &lt;meta.sj&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Victor Shamanovsky 2013-05-17T04:42:33 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6913 <pre>Hi there, I do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Thank you. Sam. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Samuel Klein 2013-05-17T04:17:02 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6912 <pre>Hi Aaron, et.al., I get a lot of email and a solution like boxbe assists me with processing all the email. I periodically check the special folder and respond to messages that are incorrectly flagged by boxbe. Think of it like a folder that resides between spam and inbox. Thank you. As for disclaimer, it stays and I consider it effective. On May 16, 2013, at 22:14, Aaron Wolf &lt;wolftune&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Victor Shamanovsky 2013-05-17T02:30:29 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6911 <pre>Someone mentioned earlier that Victor appears to have some weird block on his e-mail and might not even be seeing our messages (he seems to not respond), and he seems instead to treat this list as one-directional. Someone who bothered to sign up for his G+ thing should ask him if he's seeing the messages or understands that people have these issues with his posts. It seems like there's some communication failure here. It's hard to believe that Victor is that oblivious or actively ignoring people's replies. -- Aaron Wolf wolftune.com On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Jeremy Baron &lt;jeremy&lt; at &gt;tuxmachine.com&gt;wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Aaron Wolf 2013-05-17T02:14:58 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6910 <pre>On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 1:52 AM, Victor Shamanovsky &lt;victor.shamanovsky&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt; wrote: Just so you know the person that mentioned it before isn't alone: I also find that disclaimer to be annoying and counterproductive. (It's of course irrelevant to this list but also probably ineffective in general. http://www.economist.com/node/18529895 http://dltj.org/article/pointless-e-mail-disclaimers/ ) I would personally appreciate it if you dropped the disclaimer. Thanks! -Jeremy _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Jeremy Baron 2013-05-17T02:05:01 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6909 <pre>Facebook Tells Court ‘Like’ Feature Vital to Free Speech Facebook’s “Like” feature is vital to 500 million people who share ideas on the social network and must have free-speech protection under the U.S. Constitution, a lawyer for the company told a federal appeals court. “Any suggestion that such communication has less than full constitutional protection would result in chilling the very valued means for communication the Internet has made possible,” Aaron Panner, Facebook Inc. (FB)’s lawyer, told a three-judge panel today in Richmond, Virginia. Facebook is seeking to reverse a lower-court ruling, which came in a retaliation lawsuit brought by six people fired from the Hampton, Virginia, sheriff’s department, that a Facebook “Like” isn’t First Amendment speech. The case involves Danny Carter, a former Hampton jailer, who claims he was fired after he posted a picture of his boss’s opponent in the sheriff’s race on his Facebook page, along with a link to the contender’s websi</pre> Victor Shamanovsky 2013-05-17T01:52:49 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6908 <pre> Possibly. But this will be because it's how they are steered by their device vendors. Cloud outages are not convenient, being spied on automatically and keeping sensitive information online isn't safe, and increased bandwidth usage isn't necessarily more efficient. I'm not unsympathetic to this argument, I've tracked "Open Hardware", "Free Networks" and IT coops for years. But the perfect is the enemy of the good in this instance. We have to start somewhere. Let's do the best with what we've got. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Rob Myers 2013-05-16T19:42:50 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6907 <pre>You will likely find likeminded folks at https://reddit.com/r/darknetplan On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Anderson &lt;agnucius&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt;wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Rich Jones 2013-05-16T19:27:11 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6906 <pre> Traditional cooperative structure and democratic control are insufficient for our needs for reasons that require detailed explanation. Most people on this list probably think such a discussion is outside the scope of Free Culture. Where can we talk about this to create a strategy and plan of action for moving forward? _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Patrick Anderson 2013-05-16T19:18:56 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6905 <pre>Patrick, you seem to be advocating for cooperative systems and economic democracy. No argument here! -- Aaron Wolf wolftune.com On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Patrick Anderson &lt;agnucius&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt;wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Aaron Wolf 2013-05-16T18:56:17 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6904 <pre> Yes, P2P tech is good for some things. But we are still using proprietary software and hardware for ISP connectivity. The ISPs are allowed (and probably even required) to spy on all of our traffic. And so we will also need to own the wires and satellites and fiber optics, etc. We can work-around some of these issues for now, but freedom will continue to suffer for as long as we deny that we need the control that ownership brings. Why beg the owners when we could *be* the owners? The owners cannot even do what we want (stay out of the way) because their profits require that they infringe our freedoms. We already pay for all the costs of production but have no control because we refuse to accept the risks of ownership even though we pay for those risks in the end and even *more* when we pay profit. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Patrick Anderson 2013-05-16T18:19:18 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6903 <pre> Soon the majority of users will be storing and computing in "The Cloud" because of the massive convenience and safety and efficiency of that approach. This is a good start, but there are crucial details that are not being addressed by this particular group that must be solved to insure the coop remains under the control of the users. the existing free software solutions. The software is free as in freedom, but the hardware is not. We cannot even provide a free as in freedom email service. How can we host a video chat session? Who will pay for the server? Who will own the server? Who will control the server? Who will do all of the work? How can all the users be sure the owners and controllers and workers are not doing what Google is doing? _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Patrick Anderson 2013-05-16T18:06:38 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6902 <pre>I don't think we need to hope that someday they adopt WebRTC - Google is explicitly sponsoring WebRTC development (I think it was their idea), and would like very much to make Hangouts a plugin-less experience. I'm not saying All Hail Google, but they are deliberately aligning their interests with the Web's, in this specific instance. I know someone who's setting up a sweet little installation between a couple storefronts in DC, that will broadcast real-time video streams (with audio turned off) from place to place, to create a "neighborhood portal". He's going to be using WebRTC to make it work, on his own terms. If WebRTC didn't exist, he'd surely be using Skype or G+ to get it done. </pre> Eric Mill 2013-05-16T18:02:56 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6901 <pre>Relevant: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/05/embedding-webrtc-video-chat-right-into-your-website/ This is incredibly lightweight for servers (it's peer to peer, no central server taking all the video and sending packets to everyone). Also encrypted. If I wasn't so jaded, I'd express hope that Google is moving hangouts in this direction but that the spec/implementation isn't there yet (IETF is still finalizing MTI codecs* and datachannel stuff). Regardless, it's much lower hanging fruit than reverse engineering skype or hangouts, no? -a *nokia is patent trolling vp8 On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Patrick Anderson &lt;agnucius&lt; at &gt;gmail.com&gt;wrote: _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> abram stern (aphid 2013-05-16T17:32:54 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.freeculture.discuss/6900 <pre> http://foocorp.org/projects/fooplug/ http://www.thephone.coop/home/ But none of this is an excuse for a free culture organization to not use the existing free software solutions. _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss&lt; at &gt;freeculture.org http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss </pre> Rob Myers 2013-05-16T17:21:48 Search the mailing list at Gmane query http://search.gmane.org/?group=$group=gmane.org.freeculture.discuss