gmane.network.freenet.technical

Re: China Tor bridge blocking details

Matthew Toseland — 2012-04-04T22:57:58

Right. This was carried through into 0.7: 0.7 doesn't respond AT ALL unless you have the noderef so can use the outer (symmetric) encryption layer. (Strictly this is obfuscation). And also, our traffic is not identifiable by any fixed bytes. (But there may be other ways to identify it, and the below suggests that the chinese will deploy such as soon as they see us as a threat again).
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Re: This domain has been seized by US

DJ Amireh — 2012-04-04T21:50:10

It was likely done deliberately. You can access an old version of the page
using an SSK, like so: SSK< at >fZJH1Ps03jbBwM3Xuyn1YSTrhUu61EWCcZZcFL0-qeQ
,SYbkVkROwzX7O-sSNqjZoLLrLd4xe9V6qn1pQws8HE8,AQACAAE/celery-227/

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Mindaugas Gapsevicius <mi_ga-poEZSwPaQRM< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

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This domain has been seized by US

Mindaugas Gapsevicius — 2012-04-04T20:09:15

Hello

recently I landed up at this location:
/USK< at >fZJH1Ps03jbBwM3Xuyn1YSTrhUu61EWCcZZcFL0-qeQ,SYbkVkROwzX7O-sSNqjZoLLrLd4xe9V6qn1pQws8HE8,AQACAAE/celery/228/

indicating, that "This domain has been seized by US Immigration and
Customs Enforcement..". The message pops up time to time on www and
I guess the site should have dealt with some copyrighted material. Does
someone know the issue?
I came up to the site through AFKIndex
/USK< at >2L-k2U32b3yIl2~YjBU7--QJPTtixSwHZxYOuGjS3A0,QJBd6zpJgEsijJGQNNcwUhsrW5vJ8VtlmNX5ka2~dlU,AQACAAE/AFKindex/170/

Best,
miga

Re: China Tor bridge blocking details

Ian Clarke — 2012-04-04T19:34:02

This is the motivation behind "silent bob", something we were talking about
way back in 2002-2003.

Ian.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Matthew Toseland
<toad-EI5O+8PHWbJeeLb3ft/vUmD2FQJk+8+b< at >public.gmane.org>wrote:

China Tor bridge blocking details

Matthew Toseland — 2012-04-04T19:19:27

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2165733/swedish-researchers-uncover-key-chinas-tor-blocking

Looks like they look for a header that looks like a connection to a bridge, then try to do a handshake. This is surprisingly sophisticated - I had expected they just created thousands of gmail accounts and harvested all the bridges by email.

Also, they appear to be able to create unidentifiable IP addresses on demand, meaning that the opennet protection schemes based on IP scarcity are not going to work.

This won't work as-is with Freenet because Freenet doesn't do handshakes unless you have the keys. However there may be (more complicated) ways to identify the traffic, and the above implies they may be sophisticated enough to implement them. It does mean that obfuscation (stego) is increasingly important.
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Re: Freenet compared to Tahoe-LAFS

Ian Clarke — 2012-03-25T15:49:08

On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Florent Daigniere <
nextgens-RdDMkVZAZeuJnvDnx1genB2eb7JE58TQ< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:



Ah yes, this is true.  We employ a whitelist approach so that only parts of
the HTML DOM that we know to be safe get through.  So, for example,
anything that might cause the user's browser to ping a remote server is
verboten.  It seems to work well enough in practice (I don't recall anyone
ever finding a vulnerability in it).

But our threat model is quite different to Tahoe's, this type of thing may
not be a concern for you.

Ian.

Re: Freenet compared to Tahoe-LAFS

Florent Daigniere — 2012-03-24T15:49:30

Hi Zooko,

It was me... And the difference in betweek fproxy (the freenet web-gateway)
 and what Tahoe-LAFS does is that we attempt to parse and filter the content.

Florent

Re: Freenet compared to Tahoe-LAFS

Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn — 2012-03-24T14:42:33

Haha! I know what you mean.


Hm, yes, Freenet has always had some sort of gateway which would serve
up documents from Freenet to an unextended web browser, hasn't it? I
wonder what that Freenet developer and I were disagreeing about at
Google Summer of Code Mentor Summit 2010 then. It was a one-hour
meeting during the 2-day summit, on the topic, I think, of "security
and distributed systems". There were about 20 GSoC mentors in
attendance.

I remember the Freenet hacker (and I'm sorry that I've forgotten his
name) saying emphatically that the description I gave of Tahoe-LAFS
sounded insecure because the user was constantly using a web browser
to load content.

Perhaps the difference he was thinking about was that I made it sound
as though the web interface was the primary or only way to access
content in Tahoe-LAFS, and perhaps in Freenet the web interface is
considered secondary or optional.

Do people commonly browse hypertext documents loaded from Freenet
which contain links to other documents also load

Re: Freenet compared to Tahoe-LAFS

Ian Clarke — 2012-03-24T13:48:35

Thanks Zooko, I didn't catch this the first time around, very interesting.

I too have observed that being less ambitious can dramatically increase the
chances of success, and I seem to re-learn it about once a year :-)

I think Freenet has repeatedly aimed for the stars, but we've scaled things
back at times too - for example by making node specialization explicit in
0.7, rather than relying on emergent specialization which, while being very
cool, also made things much more difficult to reason about.

Oskar's PhD thesis was useful here as it provided a degree of theoretical
backing to the mountain of intuition that Freenet's original design was
based on.

I'm not quite sure if I understand your point about web integration,
Freenet has had a web interface from the earliest days, perhaps if I were
more familar with Tahoe-LAFS I'd understand what you mean here.

Lastly, the name, yes I think I hit it out of the park with "Freenet", but
I've had some doozies too - remember "Thoof"? ;-)

Ian.
 On Mar 23, 2012 1:

Freenet compared to Tahoe-LAFS

Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn — 2012-03-23T18:28:16

Folks:

Almost a year ago I wrote a letter to the tahoe-dev mailing list
comparing Tahoe-LAFS and Freenet. Just now I was reminded of this
letter (because it is referenced from the Tahoe-LAFS FAQ ¹ which was I
was editing), and on re-reading it, I think it is still relevant.

Below is the text of this letter, which is visible on the tahoe-dev
mailing list archives here:
https://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-July/006560.html

I hope you find it interesting! Comparing and contrasting complex
things like these can help everyone understand them better. Obviously,
writing generic criticisms about which is better than the other would
be a waste of time.

Regards,

Zooko

¹ https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/FAQ


Folks:

The topic has come up on the IRC channel and trac about "What's the
difference between Tahoe-LAFS and Freenet?". I will try to answer that
question here, but there are probably other important differences than
the ones I'm thinking of, so this answer shouldn't be treated as
de

Re: help me, please,to implement project of storing datas on cellular phones

DmitryTurin.narod.ru — 2012-02-05T21:25:51

ideas are stated
on russian language on the
 http://dmitryturin.narod.ru/rah.htm
on english language on the
 http://dmitryturin.narod.ru/rah-en.doc

help me, please,to implement project of storing datas on cellular phones

DmitryTurin.narod.ru — 2012-02-05T21:22:14

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Re: imap and talktalk.net

Matthew Toseland — 2011-11-05T14:00:44

What does this have to do with freenetproject.org? :)
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imap and talktalk.net

Anthony Dynes — 2011-09-26T10:58:26

Hi,
     my IP provider is talktalk.net, (bad choice maybe) which dos not carry imap, i have set up thunderbird 6 as specified on the website, after a while it will say localhost in the bottom left corner, if i try to download a message say from gmail it will ask for my password, which it will not except, can you help me short of getting a new IP provider.

                                                                                                                                                  Many Thanks

                                                                                                                                                         Anthony

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Re: Freenet on a mesh network

Matthew Toseland — 2011-07-06T19:26:02

It's not a bad idea in principle. But there are many problems:
1. Freenet needs long links as well as short links. Any other scalable routing protocol probably has the same issue, but Freenet in particular needs a lot of short links and a few long links for routing to work.
2. Whatever you build, you'll need some way to exchange data between different towns or cities. One obvious possibility is to move data on a USB stick or a hard disk. This won't be part of end-to-end routing for freenet (at least not until we have long term requests, in the distant future), but if you are using freenet you could use binary blobs to move chosen content between disconnected darknets in each city.
3. Generally wifi doesn't work all that well in pure ad hoc mode. Scaling is a problem above a few thousand nodes. Especially if everyone wants to use the cheapest possible antennas at ground level (in theory directional links at rooftop level could scale a bit better). New technology (e.g. better MIMO) may help.
4. Freenet cannot

Re: Freenet on a mesh network

Tom Sparks — 2011-06-21T22:56:05

From: Sheref Younan <sherefyounan-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Tech] Freenet on a mesh network
To: tech-RdDMkVZAZeuJnvDnx1genB2eb7JE58TQ< at >public.gmane.org
Received: Wednesday, 22 June, 2011, 6:07 AM

Hi,I'm wondering about the feasibility to use Freenet over a mesh network independent of the internet. Where every Freenet node will be a node in the mesh, nodes will communicate with neighbours  via WiFi or other wireless communication medium without the need of conventional Internet as a communication medium.

This will have the advantage of offering a scalable and decentralized network that will not need an existing Internet infrastructure and will (among other things) resist block outs like the infamous one made in Egypt during its revolution (January 2011)

any ideas, comments ?

Could work if you have some allways-on nodes
you'll have submit freesites to the network....

you'll also need to setup a lampp server to tell people about the service are on the network before they

Freenet on a mesh network

Sheref Younan — 2011-06-21T20:07:42

Hi,
I'm wondering about the feasibility to use Freenet over a mesh network
independent of the internet. Where every Freenet node will be a node in the
mesh, nodes will communicate with neighbours  via WiFi or other wireless
communication medium without the need of conventional Internet as a
communication medium.

This will have the advantage of offering a scalable and decentralized
network that will not need an existing Internet infrastructure and will
(among other things) resist block outs like the infamous one made in Egypt
during its revolution (January 2011)

any ideas, comments ?

Thanks,
Sheref Younan
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Re: Freenet on a Delay-tolerant network

Matthew Toseland — 2011-06-08T16:26:33

I don't have time to look into it in detail right now. However I will give you my standard view:
- This sounds a lot like Haggle. Opportunistic forwarding, local broadcast and all that.
- It's equivalent to standing on a bus and asking if anyone has a copy of your favourite illegal file. I hope it works but I don't see it as being closely related to Freenet. However...
- Medium term, Freenet will be largely darknet - that is, friend to friend - and will have support for hiding its traffic via simple steganography.
- Long term, in particularly hostile environments, even stego'ed darknet transports are detectable and/or blockable.
- Therefore, we would like to support high latency transports (which are still darknet), for instance exchanging USB keys with your friends regularly (aka sneakernet), or automatically transferring data between your phone and his when you are physically in close proximity. We would also envisage underground wifi links etc making up some part of such a network, which theoretically co

Freenet on a Delay-tolerant network

Tom Sparks — 2011-06-01T17:35:21

How would Freenet work on a delay-tolerant network like Probabilistic Routing Protocol using History of Encounters and Transitivity (PRoPHET) [1] ?

 [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-dtnrg-prophet

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Re: Solution to churn problem and possibly to the PitchBlack attack

Matthew Toseland — 2011-06-01T14:09:58

Good question. I'm not entirely sure, some of them are in our git repositories.
https://github.com/freenet/

One extreme option is to use many nodes in a single JVM. This gives accurate but very slow simulations. See src/freenet/node/simulator/ in freenet's source for this.

You will probably have to write your own though. :|
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Re: Solution to churn problem and possibly to the PitchBlack attack

Pierre Abbat — 2011-06-01T04:33:39

There's no mention of a level in the source code. Where are the other 
simulators? There's also no swapping that I could see in the simulator.

Pierre