gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel

Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-20T05:35:21

For the most part I agree with you.  That is why I helped fund the UDOO 
project:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/435742530/udoo-android-linux-arduino-in-a-tiny-single-board

   EBo --

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Greg Bernard — 2013-05-20T03:44:37

I think the original Beagleboard might have been that much but the Beaglebone was $90 and the Beaglebone Black is now only $45. 
To me, having an actual OS, video output and USB input are real advantages even if an add-on board was required to obtain additional IO.

 
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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-20T03:12:47

There might be a number of reasons.  First, you can now get them for 
less that $65, but other than that, ease of use, familiarity, all the 
sensors you can attach, etc.  BTW, I thought the Beaglebone was selling 
for $150.

On May 19 2013 8:46 PM, Greg Bernard wrote:

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Greg Bernard — 2013-05-20T02:46:31

My question would be why anyone would want to use a $65 Arduino mega if Linuxcnc will run on a on a $45 Beaglebone?

 
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    -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist




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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-20T00:33:28

I do not mind helping as long as you understand this is is about 5 
priorities down the queue.

   EBo --

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Michael Haberler — 2013-05-20T00:17:28

Am 20.05.2013 um 02:11 schrieb EBo <ebo-doD3EReIBWJBDgjK7y7TUQ< at >public.gmane.org>:


great to see your committment to the task!

btw none of this tool data manipulation or pin wiggling is anywhere RT critical, so the draft call might come sooner than expected


-m




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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-20T00:11:17

after you write the python only hard real-time clock and latency 
tools... SURE! ;-)

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Michael Haberler — 2013-05-19T23:35:32

Am 20.05.2013 um 00:12 schrieb EBo <ebo-doD3EReIBWJBDgjK7y7TUQ< at >public.gmane.org>:


well we are all grateful that you just signed up to do the first non-Python reference implementation ;)

- Michael



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Re: on the subject of governance

EBo — 2013-05-19T22:38:46

I've let this sit to give it a think.  I know that there are people 
other than myself playing with, or wanting to use, LinuxCNC on 3D 
printers.  The interfaces coming out of the RepRap community are very 
nice and intuitive.  The biggest complaint I hear is that it takes to 
much fiddling to get them to work right, but it is getting *much* better 
lately.  I see no reason why we could not extend those interfaces to 
frontend LinuxCNC.  Most of this code is distributed under some variant 
of the GPL.  If we could demonstrate something like this on commonly 
used RepRap hardware, then I'm willing to bet that we could find plenty 
of people to help fine tune it.

   EBo --

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-19T22:12:33

I did, but I wanted to discourage it for foundational required 
functionality.


yes I know, but in prior posts we were also talking about rewriting 
this so that it works on things like the Arduino.  If you can honestly 
tell me how you are going to get a working python interpreter + a 
rewrite of LinuxCNC (I would use the current executable size as a worst 
case size constraint) + pick your favorite (G)UI, then I will gladly buy 
you a glass of your favorite beverage.  If you have an embedded machine 
with an SD card or gigs of flash, then you can pull it off.  An 
Arduino-Mega (with 256K) I doubt will cut it.  That's my point.


I do not consider that an irrelevant tailspin, but for the sake of 
discussion if I ignor the python bits, allowing the tool store to 
trigger an external program/script, I agree with.  There might be some 
security issues we may wish to discuss (assuming that the code runs in a 
protective mode and not user mode), but I accept the usefulness of 
executing external programs.

Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-19T21:59:25

Well, I have heard of it in real live (not entirely funny thought).  A 
friend of mine has a neurological disease which makes her twitch he head 
a lot, and uncontrollably from time to time.  One time she bit into a 
slice of pizza and her head started swinging back and forth 
uncontrollably.  It pulled all the toppings down her chin...  The only 
funny part was when her husband said "honey, you do not have to kill it. 
It is already dead" as he got up to get a towel and some ice.  So, 
"Cheese breaks" are important things.

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch) alittle OT

Stuart Stevenson — 2013-05-19T21:42:46

------------------------------
additive (my term) is when you want to change the offset and input the
amount of change either positive or negative and that amount is added to
the current register.

total (my term) is when you must add the numbers and input the total amount
in the register

Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Michael Haberler — 2013-05-19T20:29:56

Am 19.05.2013 um 21:49 schrieb EBo <ebo-doD3EReIBWJBDgjK7y7TUQ< at >public.gmane.org>:


I am sure you read the 'assume' word above


sorry - where do you get that idea from? please check the platforms LinuxCNC is already running on, including GUI's written in Python


I note we are having a concepts discussion here, and not a bad one. Can we at least once avoid tailspinning into irrelevant details right away please.

- Michael
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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Dave — 2013-05-19T19:56:08

"Cheese breaks" ...  An interesting analogy Andy...  and something that 
I have never, ever considered..  :-)

Dave Cole

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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

EBo — 2013-05-19T19:49:36

I would strongly urge ***not*** to use python.  That requirement will 
prevent porting to small embedded devices.  I would be fine with 
prototyping in python, but not with the final implementation.

   EBo --


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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Michael Haberler — 2013-05-19T19:25:42

Am 19.05.2013 um 19:56 schrieb andy pugh <bodgesoc-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w< at >public.gmane.org>:


conceptually it does - the toolstore needs to not only control the data objects involved, but also coordinate the machine (motion and HAL) activities; so 'store' might not be capturing the semantics very well; I just used the term to avoid 'table' and 'database' but something more to the point might help convey the meaning

in practice this might just mean the toolstore tells the interpreter to execute a certain NGC procedure in response to a prepare or change request, which isnt radically different from the current flow but concentrates control in one place instead of littering it over several places

(if JMK is tuned in: for the HAL activity this is a perfect use case for the HAL pipe we've cooked up)

m



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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

andy pugh — 2013-05-19T17:56:12


Does it really need to move out of the interpreter?
This is feeling a bit like eating pizza, where you can't get a clean
break in the cheese and end up swallowing all of it.

Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Michael Haberler — 2013-05-19T17:24:36

Am 18.05.2013 um 07:15 schrieb Michael Haberler <mail17-Hlu4VFpx/Azk7+2FdBfRIA< at >public.gmane.org>:


it occurred to me that the toolstore must be a bit more than the API examples above suggest:

to move out of the interpreter and iocontrol, and generalize the current functionality, it needs also to:

1. in the interpreter (or caused by the interpreter), cause machine moves (rapid, touchoff, quill up etc)
2. in HAL land, cause the pin handshaking protocol to be exercised as needed, which might be specific to a certain changer type

1) really is a variant of calling an NGC (or embedded Python) procedure during a remapped Tx/M6x and easy
2) might just mean a more generic Python HAL component which talks to the toolstore

it also means toolstore is an entity proper (eg process), not just a library, and can talk/be talked to remotely eventually


--- blue sky --

what I would rather would like to have for 1) (and that would simplify this operation as well as enable MDI-while-paused): have an instantiable interpre

Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Michael Haberler — 2013-05-19T16:59:52

Am 19.05.2013 um 17:06 schrieb Dave <EMC-A8yWjXUUoqZBDgjK7y7TUQ< at >public.gmane.org>:


in this table 


the 'active' attribute will take care of both breakage and wear imit exceeded - it will remove that tool phsical object from group candidate selection, and if there's none left, selection must fail:




that's the selection criterium if you have a group of several tools with identical type as alluded to here:



I would think that selection criterium be an integrator choice

how that could pan out is:

assume the toolstore is done in Python
by default startup of linuxcnc would refer to a default lib/python/toolstore.py file
in case the integrator overrides this, you might have something like

[TOOLSTORE]
PYTHON = myconfigdir/python/mygreattoolstore.py  # here you might activate the desired selection query
MYOPTION = 42 # or drive it through an option

-m
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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch) a little OT

Chris Morley — 2013-05-19T16:59:08



I wrote a couple programs for the Okuma lathe, that we added block delete
to add an extra 'finish' cut and stop the spindle so you could measure the diameters
and adjust the tool. It allowed you to adjust the offsets while paused and they took
effect on the next movement of the machine. Super handy for set up.

I had another program for a shaft with a few low tolerance diameters.
The machine would not cut all of them on size, so I finished close to spec,
measured then had to edit the program to compensate. Pain in the ass.
This machine didn't have wear offsets just tool offsets. I didn't know about
the technique of using multiple tool offsets at the time.

Could use explain this line? I've read a few times and can't make it clear in my head.


Chris M
       
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Re: Wear Offsets (was lathe-style tool patch)

Chris Morley — 2013-05-19T16:48:42


As Michael mentioned, If we allow multiple tools with the same number, but
also have an 'active' flag  entry for each one, then you can select a particular tool.

tool | active | offset  X | offset Y | etc
  1   |   no    |       1       |      1.5   |
  1   |   yes   |       1.02  |      1.5   |
  2   |   yes   |       2       |      1.25 | 

You could either adjust the active column manually or write a tool management
routine to do it automatically.

The important thing is that the tool table can handle the concept.

Chris M
       
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