gmane.linux.debian.devel.project

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Andreas Tille — 2008-11-20T08:44:34

I do not think that Ean is talking about Debian Pure Blends because the most important feature of a Blend is that it is actually NO derivative. (That's why we call them now not CDD any more because this very frequently remained unclear for people who just recognised the name.) But what I would like to see in connection to Ean's mail is that we try to propagate the idea about the advantages a derivative could gain if it would merge back into Debian and *become* a Blend (for instance there was a time when DeMuDi (Debian Multimedia Distribution) intended to do this but this plan was dropped as far as I know). The profit for both sides would be evident in my opinion: Debian will become better multimedia support (to stick to the DeMuDi example) and 64studio (offspring of the DeMuDi project) would join a team of 1000+x developers to work on the same goal. Regarding Ean's original mail: IMHO there is no need to call this an "effort" or whatever. It might have been sufficient if Ean would have actually prepared

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Martin Schulze — 2008-11-20T08:32:04

What about... . forward upstream bugs to the Debian BTS . forward improvements that are PDD agnostic to the Debian BTS? . maintain a (close) relationship with the Debian project . be some sort of active on the Debian mailing lists Regards, Joey

Re: Member distributions and popularity

2008-11-20T06:50:37

Right, and while catering these markets they'll be promoting Debian itself as well. I like the idea. regards, Richard

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solusipinjaman — 2008-11-20T01:43:30

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Re: Member distributions and popularity

Matt Arnold — 2008-11-20T01:25:56

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ean Schuessler wrote: You've Some good ideas there however, 1. In some respects you're talking about Pure Blends/CDDs/Whatever the heck we call them now ;) 2. As to issue tracking and release management. We shouldn't really care. Just as long as most of the non-debian packages are policy compliant. 3. Instead of a logo, we should require a simple textlink, in a prominent place, of course . Cheers Matt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkkvJwACgkQfGeS0kace83waQCfQY76f6sTUVVByPh5RnBNevh+ 9OQAn21IgHeCoGQLbBeE4yEzZtlC/7Br =hxwF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Ean Schuessler — 2008-11-20T00:43:21

Yes! Right. I think one of the first areas for improvement would be making the page easier to find! The only thing I can see on www.debian.org that links to this is the Debian FAQ. Ideally, this list would show up as a direct link off of "Getting Debian". My main suggestion is that rather than promoting all Debian variants we would promote those that follow some rules. For instance: * The dist must display a "Real Debian GNU/Linux" logo (or something like that) on their site. * The dist must pass some test suite we would make up that checks whether things work as we expect them to work in Debian. * The dist developers go through some kind of Debian Developer kind of initiation where they promise us to play nice or something. * Use our issue tracking/patch management/release/whatever procedures in a certain way that we define. * Whatever else we decide they need to do. In return for these considerations they would get their fancy new dist promoted on our world famous web site. These dists can take car

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Javier Fernandez-Sanguino — 2008-11-19T23:38:53

2008/11/20 Ean Schuessler brainfood.com>: You mean something like this: http://www.debian.org/misc/children-distros I started it off a long time ago although I don't have the time to maintain it. Of course, there's lots of room for improvement there. Regards Javier

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Ean Schuessler — 2008-11-19T23:24:04

----- "Noah Meyerhans" debian.org> wrote: Right. I'm more suggesting that we provide an "official derivatives" page in a prominent way on our site. The listing would provide a description of what the dist specializes in (ie. kids, realtime audio, proprietary games, whatever) as well as, perhaps, user ratings or even reviews of the distribution. That's exactly what I'm driving towards. To get on this list, a distribution would have to follow certain rules. For instance, if you break Debian policy in such a way that major Debian packages won't work on your distribution then you could lose your "official distribution" status. We wouldn't charge for this status. Rather, we would provide a set of guidelines you have to follow to achieve it. Sort of like "Linux Standard Base" but with the difference of being more directly Debian oriented. Derivative distributions are not going away. We don't want them to go away. We've even gone to a lot of trouble to make sure its easy to create them. Instead of be

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Noah Meyerhans — 2008-11-19T22:32:50

When Ean suggested borrowing ideas from Eclipse, I don't think he meant charge people to be Debian derivatives (or did you interpret it some other way?) OTOH, I'm not sure what he suggested. I think we already do quite a good job of working without derivitives. But much of how we work with them depends on how they choose to work with us. If somebody chooses to simply grab our distro, make some changes, and call it their own, we can't stop them. We can, and do, encourage them to work with us. I'm not sure what else we should do. noah

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Stephen Gran — 2008-11-19T22:49:56

This one time, at band camp, Martin Schulze said: I think he's saying we should be more like Java, so that we can run on no platforms at all, and this is expected behavior. Right now, people actually expect Debian to work on their hardware. If we could partner with an enterprise solution, we could resolve these misguided preconceptions.

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Florian Weimer — 2008-11-19T22:25:38

* Ean Schuessler: I think you missed this part: | * Be an Eclipse member company This costs at least USD 5,000 per year. I don't think this is suitable for Debian.

Re: Member distributions and popularity

Martin Schulze — 2008-11-19T16:44:42

Err? What exactly are you proposing? Regards, Joey

Member distributions and popularity

Ean Schuessler — 2008-11-19T16:31:57

Hi. As everyone is aware, there has been plenty of debate about how Debian is losing popularity. At the same time, the overall number of .deb packages installed in the world is just going up and up and up. The "problem" is that these .debs are often installed by a Debian derivative distribution. Some people think this is good, some people think this is bad. The one thing we can say for sure is that it is causing lots more .debs to be installed. We want to grow our base of users and developers. We also want to insure that when people install .debs that they are truly getting a Debian experience. Perhaps one way that we can have our cake and eat it to is by helping to promote Debian derivatives that don't break the overall experience and work with us in a happy and productive way. This is how the Eclipse project works with their derivatives. Maybe we can borrow some ideas from them? http://www.eclipse.org/membership/special_programs/member-downloads-program.php Thanks.

Re: KDE 4.x in Debian

Bernd Zeimetz — 2008-11-18T22:54:23

Do you really think it won't have RC bugs? :P :P

Re: sponsership

Robinah Nabisaalu — 2008-11-18T09:56:33

I would humbly request for you help in terms of sponsorship during my education studies at the university my name Nabisaalu Robinah A Ugandan by nationality 21 years old in kampala I will be very greatful if lam considered because am really in need of your help for my education Yours faith full Nabisaalu robinah Reply to n_robinah< at >yahoo.com ****************************************************************************** Disclaimer This email and any attachments is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee please tell the sender immediately, and destroy this email without using, sending or storing it. If you are not the intended receipient you are further hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in reliance of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Any opinions, express or implied in this email are those of the sender, and are not necessarily approved by National Housing and Constru

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

Manoj Srivastava — 2008-11-17T01:33:13

They only need to do so to prevent it from being on the current ballot. I think it would be a pity of any of the 6 options is withdrawn, since any of them could lend us relief from the current mess wrt Lenny release. As to future votes, anyone may propose a failed option on any vote for a fresh look anytime they so desire. manoj

Re: search.debian.org

Thomas Viehmann — 2008-11-16T23:35:27

Hi Jochen, thanks for alerting us of the problem. Jochen Peters wrote: search.debian.org had been a placeholder (saying "use google") for years. About 10 months ago I started search.debian.net to operate as the new Debian search. That had to move hosts lately, and search.debian.org already points to the new location but the service has not quite arrived yet. I apologize for the inconvenience. Kind regards T.

search.debian.org

Jochen Peters — 2008-11-16T21:38:11

hi debian team, some problems with your webserver? http://search.debian.org/apache2-default/?q=hardware Just a "it work's" site not ideal. (22:37 Germany) I wish al of you a good start of the week :-) Jochen -- .-. jochen.homelinux.org oo| /`'\ (\_;/) Mit der Zeit kommt der Tux auch in Ihr Haus!

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

Manoj Srivastava — 2008-11-16T17:34:10

The decision comes from here: ,----[ The Debian Social Contract ] | | 1. Debian will remain 100% free | | We provide the guidelines that we use to determine if a work is | `free' in the document entitled `The Debian Free Software | Guidelines'. We promise that the Debian system and all its | components will be free according to these guidelines. `---- ,----[ The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) ] | 2. Source Code | | The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in | source code as well as compiled form. `---- ,----[ The Debian Constitution ] | 1. A Foundation Document is a document or statement regarded as | critical to the Project's mission and purposes. | 2. The Foundation Documents are the works entitled `Debian Social | Contract' and `Debian Free Software Guidelines'. | 3. A Foundation Document requires a 3:1 majority for its | supersession. New Foundation Documents are issued and existing |

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Joyce Donaldson — 2008-11-16T17:18:38

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Re: call for seconds: on firmware

Manoj Srivastava — 2008-11-16T16:04:34

What they are not empowered to do is to decide to release with DFSG violations in main. If you think there is such a powere delegated to them, you need to show that these powers are there with the DPL in the first place, or that they belong to the RM. So, sure, they can ad whatever tags they wish to the BTS. But the release Lenny woth stuff the SC says we will not have in the Debian system, sorry, no. Err, it should not come to that, since they would be exceeding their authority in the first place (releasing something that the SC says Debian shall not). We can have a spearate vote on what to do post lenny, if people still want that. But currently, with the issue on how to go about releasing lenny, all these proposals are related. manoj