gmane.law.gpl.violations.legal

Re: How to proceed for Linitx/LEX Computech/Infineon Danube ADSL2+PCI missing files?

Armijn Hemel — 2012-05-10T17:18:29

Yes. Lantiq says they are being completely GPL compliant and the mistake 
is at the vendor, so there is little they can do about this (it is not 
their responsibility, but their customer's).

armijn

Re: How to proceed for Linitx/LEX Computech/Infineon Danube ADSL2+PCI missing files?

TJ — 2012-05-03T18:28:29

I wondered if you'd had any response since March on this?


The source bundles as provided by Linitx and LEX Computech are missing key files required to make many of the packages.

So far I've identified the following omissions:

1. IFX custom build scripts in many of the sub-project directories rely on some custom build environment set-up
scripts to define libraries and tools and those set-up scripts are missing:

./../../../../tools/build_tools/Path.sh
./../../../../tools/build_tools/config.sh

Without those I cannot build the same binaries for the device, or even build many of the binaries at all.

2. The source to uClibc is missing. According to the uClibc README it is LGPL licensed. Version 0.9.27 is
used in the pre-built tool-chain.

3. Busybox fails to build since it is missing an Infineon-specific header file "ifx_config.h"

4. The kernel config/build does not build any of the Danube-specific code for this device.

5. The kernel source bundle is targeted for a different product, based on the embedde

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Martin Møller Skarbiniks Pedersen — 2012-05-01T08:41:52


Well, not exactly. Inside the European Union ( 27 European countries)
you can return a product
within two weeks without given a reason for a refund if the product
was bought online.

Regards
Martin

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

lkcl luke — 2012-04-18T19:59:07

2012/4/17 Henrik Nordström <henrik< at >henriknordstrom.net>:

 that's exactly what we tried doing.  for various reasons (which i
just posted), *every* single one of the ODMs and factories went, "no
deal".

even when i explained the situation to one of the SoC vendors (who
were also GPL violating due to their NDAs) they *still* didn't budge.
i had to threaten the SOC vendor them with Copyright violation (i'm a
minor Linux Kernel Copyright holder, but they didn't know that it was
minor).  eventually the SoC vendor _did_ "promise" to sort it out....
and then they reneged on their promise.

 instead what they did was they blacklisted us and the factory we were
working with.  we lost a lot of money _and_ the goodwill of the
factory _and_ a client.

 l.

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

lkcl luke — 2012-04-18T19:55:09


 i bought samples, and asked for the source code.  they refused, in
direct violation of the GPL.  when pressed, they demanded money in the
form of a cash order for 20,000 units.

 i told them, nicely, that they must be off their fucking heads.  the
reason is very simple: the product (the sample) was purchased because
it was a low-cost platfom to put in front of our customers, in order
to *replace* the stupid shit software that *they* had put on it, and
to sell thousands of units in Europe, with *our* software (well,
actually, the client's software).

 i told them that if i put the unit in front of our client, and
relayed their ransom demands to the client, that our client would
think we were fucking retarded and would never speak to us again.

 this made absolutely no difference.

 .... but this situation we did not encounter just once: it happened
about FOUR TIMES.  in the end i went "sod this i'm not wasting any
more time pursuing GPL violations: i'm going to find factories that
need Software (Libre) exp

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Arnt Karlsen — 2012-04-17T20:21:39

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 07:05:03 +0200, Henrik wrote in message 
<1334639103.32061.4.camel< at >home.hno.se>:


..would having a judge order an isp to brick his pirate-software 
adsl or radio modems and instead display the court order on the 
modem's web server, help educate the vendors?

..would having a judge ordering a cell phone vendor to brick his
pirate-software cell phones and instead display the court order 
on the cellphone screen, help educate the vendors?

....would having a judge order a mall chain to brick or recycle 
their pirate-software modems, cell phones, stoves, vacuum cleaners,
washing machines etc and instead display the court order on their
doors and web sites, help educate the vendors?


..what standards do we want the courts to hold the parties to on 
proving GPL compiance?  Listings of binaries with checksums and
build scripts with the sources so any jury member can try run the
build script recipe to verify or refute the allegations of GPL
compliance and what not?

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-17T05:05:03

mån 2012-04-16 klockan 01:39 +0100 skrev lkcl luke:

If doing business the offensive legal way yes.

What I would like to see is an "educational" program targeting western
distributors with a goal that GPL compliance just as proprietary license
compliance becomes standard part of their normal deal negotiation as a
requirement for an accepted deal.

Regards
Henrik

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

lkcl luke — 2012-04-16T00:39:07

2012/4/13 Henrik Nordström <henrik< at >henriknordstrom.net>:


 that would get you blacklisted with every SoC vendor, if your name
became public.  so it would best be done with the cooperation of quite
a large number of Copyright Holders, each of whom makes it clear that
they're now fed up with the situation and prepared to aid and assist
in a court case. also, the original complainant(s) are going to have
to remain anonymous.

 l.

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

lkcl luke — 2012-04-16T00:36:32

  till: watch it.  ian's experience and advice is in line with what a
lot of people - myself included - have experienced.  in the case of
the company and the CIC that i'm working with, sticking to ethical,
legal and free software principles has cost us a lot of money and
resulted in zero profits, only losses.

l.

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

lkcl luke — 2012-04-16T00:34:05


 yes.  i forgot to mention before: china operates on a cash-only
basis.  there *is* no credit.  this is why they demand that you give
them money before complying with the GPL.


 the courts work fine in China, too.  they work absolutely fine for
China-based citizens... *only*.

 l.

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Matthew Flaschen — 2012-04-15T20:59:15

Even if your estoppel argument is true, it only applies to Google. 
These Chinese Android tablets (and indeed all Android tablets) contain a 
lot of GPL code where Google does not hold the copyright.

Matt Flaschen

Re: zfs incompatible with GNU/KFreeBSD ?

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-13T19:15:01

fre 2012-04-13 klockan 14:19 +0200 skrev Arnt Karlsen:


Which might maybe be a problem for those applications which include
those headers, not anything else. Even more so for any zfs related
user-space libraries.

Regards
Henrik

Re: zfs incompatible with GNU/KFreeBSD ?

Arnt Karlsen — 2012-04-13T12:19:01

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:43:32 +0200, Henrik wrote in message 
<1334313812.32276.53.camel< at >home.hno.se>:


..maybe the potential presence of CDDL headers in zfs?
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:23:53 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 
<20120411142353.381ee22f< at >nb6.lan>:

Re: zfs incompatible with GNU/KFreeBSD ?

2012-04-13T11:23:37

Re: zfs incompatible with GNU/KFreeBSD ?

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-13T10:43:32

sön 2012-04-08 klockan 23:08 +0000 skrev Paolo Del Bene:

GNU/KFreeBSD is GNU (and BSD, MIT, and a lot of other stuff) ontop of
the FreeBSD kernel. FreeBSD kernel is not GNU and is not GPL licensed.
zfs and FreeBSD kernel is license compatible.

There is no license violation in the aggregation of GNU software with
software of other licenses.

There is no license violation in running GNU software ontop of a kernel
having a different incompatible license.

Participants of the GNU Project do work with and often contribute to
open source software under a wide range of licenses, not only GPL. It's
up to each participant which projects they want to contribute to under
which terms.

I do not see how zfs in GNU/KFreeBSD as such would be incompatible with
the GNU project. The main required freedoms of the GNU project is
fulfilled by the license and source availability of the mentioned
components, just not in a way entirely compatible with the GPL license
so you can't mix freely with GPL components within the same ap

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-13T10:18:55

I would classify a young chineese worker buying 100-1000 boxes from a
local factory and selling them on ebay as pretty innocent in this
business.


I disagree. You are most welcome to educate them, but doing so by
destroying their low margin business is not fair in my eyes.


There is plenty of GPL violating stuff sold here in europe in large
quantities. Countless tablets, a whole bunch of phones, plenty of NAS
boxes, some laptops, and even some servers (ipmi/bmc controller
components etc).

Regards
Henrik

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-13T10:07:34

sön 2012-04-08 klockan 18:06 +0100 skrev lkcl luke:


And someone capable of taking the significant financial risk involved.

Regards
Henrik

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Till Harbaum / Lists — 2012-04-13T10:03:55

Hi,

On Friday, April 13, 2012 11:15:31 Henrik Nordström wrote:
I can't believe they are that innocent. After all it's no secret that chinese 
companies sometimes like to bend the licenses/patents of stuff a little bit.

The seller are pretty likely aware of this and not just innocent bystanders .

I agree that addressing big sellers here in europe may be way more effective, 
but i am not sure these even exist. Perhaps for exactly that reason that 
there's the risk of being sued for unlicensed stuff.

Till

--
Dr. Till Harbaum <lists< at >harbaum.org>

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-13T09:40:01

mån 2012-04-09 klockan 21:50 +0200 skrev Till Harbaum / Lists:

There is some, and you do know when you see one. But most would not
dream of selling on ebay directly. It's different worlds, manufacturing
and end-user sales.


That is usually easy to identify.


No.


No.


They are in no position to sue. Much less so than you are.


It's a reality even. Done a couple of times.


That connection is very thin. You'll have better reach trying to call
the factory directky,


Yes, but not for the reasons you want to pull.

Regards
Henrik

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Henrik Nordström — 2012-04-13T09:15:31

sön 2012-04-08 klockan 10:24 +0200 skrev Till Harbaum / Lists:


Yes..


Yes, or more likely effective distributors when one of these chineese
tablets is sold via a larger european/us distributor.


You can probably cancel the order, but have to return the device and pay
for any return shipping. And as noted below it's not an effective
channel if you want to reach the factories, only causing harm to
innocent people.


Not really. The sellers on ebay are generally small young traders buying
a batch of devices at the factory and selling on ebay with a couple of
dollars margin. And often of devices mainly targeting the domestic
chineese market.

You are of course very welcome to talk to the ebay sellers and making
them aware of what GPL is and ask them to talk to the factory, but
please do not systematically give them bad feedback. You only cause harm
to innocent people that way.


Not really. You need to hit some large orders in range of 100K units at
least to make any noise at all about it. So better to work

Re: Sellers of chinese tablets

Arnt Karlsen — 2012-04-11T12:18:40

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 20:12:54 +0200, Till wrote in message 
<201204082012.54437.lists< at >harbaum.org>:


.._can_ you legally return it?  You will be "distributing" the 
binaries on that thing, without being able to deliver the sources, 
if the vendor asks you to.  Software piracy, is it not? ;o)

..a viable way around this, is ask your vendor for the sources, so 
you legally can return the tab and the sources too, should he want 
them in the next 3 years. ;o)